fun Lizardfolk build

[Mystical-man]

I was considering the idea of maybe making a unarmed lizardfolk striker the next campaign I do and was wondering about how you'd make something like this. I'd rather this be STR not DEX (sorry monks) and use bitting instead of most weapon attacks. I know that you'd do less damage but this is a concept first build second type deal.

If anyone has a build for a STR based unarmed attacker Lizardfolk then please say, the more feral and beastly the better

[sophontteks]

You could focus on grappling. Since your bite doesn't require any hands you could grapple an opponent while using a shield, or grapple 2 without giving up your attack.

I like using barbarian with mostly eagle totems. Tons of mobility, very tanky, can eventually "fly", and advantage on strength checks.

But cleric is the natural fit of lizardfolk. I think a grapple cleric is within the realm of possibility. The strength domain seems fitting. The great thing is I havn't seen this suggested or used before, but you got everything you need to be ab effective grappler. Less mobility then I like in one, but definatrly solid at grappling.

[Rixitichil]

I'd consider some kind of grabbing build. That way you can maximise the usefulness of the bite by having your hands full holding a foe and a shield or two Foes.
Barbarian for Rage or a dip into Rogue/Bard for Expertise all help with Athletics checks.

The bonus action attack only works when using Hungry Jaws.

[Mystical-man]

oooo, these are very interesting choices and thanks for answering the question on hungry jaws. I think I'd like to go barbarian since the amount of feral type abilities plus even though he's STR based DEX could still be pretty high and effective, the need for CON would lessen so a 14 con could be perfectly fine which helps solve the ability score increase Lizardfolk tends to have.

Out of the archetypes what would each one provide to a grappling build? Also what feats would be good since tavern brawler has the d4 and proficiency wasted from Lizardfolk's pre-existing abilities but maybe it could still be good and is there anything else that's good?

[sophontteks]

You should aim for 16 con. Lizardfolk have +2 con, so there is no reason not to. Con increases your AC as a barbarian, so Barbarians depend on con more then most.

Totem barbarians are great. Most the barbarian archtypes are lackluster in comparison. I highly recommend taking the first and third eagle totems. The first one will allow you to run/swim 60 feet and grapple while ignoring reactions. Actually, its better then ignoring reactions, you make the enemy waste their reactions. The third totem lets you fly. No explanation needed there.

The idea is to bonus action dash into the backline and grapple the priority target. You'll become the center of attention, making you a great tank, and you can throw them off cliffs/into hazardous terrain with a push action.

Ask your caster to learn cloud of daggers. It will shred whoever you grapple.

[strangebloke]

Killer Croc
Elk Totem barbarian 5/rogue 2
Abilities: 16/14/16/8/14/8
Expertise: Athletics, stealth
Weapon: bow, short swords, javelins, and/or shield, as appropriate.

You swim, you hide, you're ultra fast on land and water, and most importantly, you can drag people underwater and drown them.

[sophontteks]

JESUS I didn't even think about grappling people underwater. That's freaking awsome!

[Mystical-man]

huh...that's something truly amazing and horrific and I love it. If I ever see a pool of water I will know what to do, any grappling build would be able to utilise that well on lizardfolk

[sophontteks]

On point buy the most effecient build would be taking 15 str, 15 dex, 16 con, and dumping the rest. Give yourself +1 str and +1 con on level up.

Multiclassing would set back your ASIs too far for my taste, but it is a good option to consider 2 rogue like strangebloke suggested. Both have merit. I like the ASIs and flying eagle totem better then expertise and sneak attacks.

Alternatively you can just give up on dex, keeping it at 14.This lets you beef up your wisdom, and take a half feat. Now, this may be crazy but athlete would be very thematic. Now you have a climb speed and a swim speed. Grapple someone, drag them up a wall, and drop them. DM would make you roll to climb, but you have advantage on the roll as a barbarian (and expertise of you go rogue.)

Besides athlete lets you get up from prone for basically free. Its not very useful, but it does let your lizard crawl around like a lizard. Remember to drop prone any time you think ranged attacks are incoming before you are in melee.

[CTurbo]

The grappling Lizardfolk Barbarian is awesome. Start 15 Str, 15 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 11 Wis, 8 Cha, go unarmored, and put +1 Str and Dex at level 4. Eventually take Res(Wis) after bumping Str again to shore up a major weakness. No need for any fancy feats other than Res. Just max out Str and maybe add +2 more to Con late.

Alternatively, wear medium armor instead and start 15 Str, 14 Dex, 17 Con and take +1 Str and Con at level 4. Same AC and more HP, but a bit less "cool"

Rage would really just equal feeding frenzy. You could start eating your enemies alive as you attack them.


I've seen this character in a one shot, but he had great rolled stats and got to start with 18 in Str, and took Tavern Brawler for a 1d4+Str+rage tail whip attack and the bonus action grapple after attack. Check with your DM if you can rage and then grapple without attacking without losing your rage. Technically if you don't take damage or make an attack your rage ends.

[sophontteks]

The grappling Lizardfolk Barbarian is awesome. Start 15 Str, 15 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 11 Wis, 8 Cha, go unarmored, and put +1 Str and Dex at level 4. Eventually take Res(Wis) after bumping Str again to shore up a major weakness. No need for any fancy feats other than Res. Just max out Str and maybe add +2 more to Con late.

Alternatively, wear medium armor instead and start 15 Str, 14 Dex, 17 Con and take +1 Str and Con at level 4. Same AC and more HP, but a bit less "cool"

Rage would really just equal feeding frenzy. You could start eating your enemies alive as you attack them.


I've seen this character in a one shot, but he had great rolled stats and got to start with 18 in Str, and took Tavern Brawler for a 1d4+Str+rage tail whip attack and the bonus action grapple after attack. Check with your DM if you can rage and then grapple without attacking without losing your rage. Technically if you don't take damage or make an attack your rage ends.
Grappling is a part of the attack action so it should be fine.

[Unoriginal]

First thing to say: you can be a STR Monk without any problem. The increased damage for unarmed strikes applies even if you use STR for them.

Second: I'm now imagining your character as a fighting game boss who set up a ring of water around his boss arena so he can jump in it and drag people with him.

[Mystical-man]

I will say our DM only allows standard scores rn but that's still pretty good, I don't really see this as a major tank type character and more of a "rush in, take one guy, rush out" kinda character which would honestly be super fun to play. This is the build I have come to rn

STR 15
DEX 14
CON 14 (12 + 2 and I know it might be better to put the 14 in con not dex but I imagine this guy as being quite fast so having a good dex is something I'd like and a 14 is perfectly fine for con in my opinion, plus I'm gunna have a higher AC with this)
INT 10
WIS 14 (13 + 1 and this makes mind control less effective so ha! screw you bards!)
CHA 8

Barbarian X / rogue 2
Expertise in athletics and maybe stealth (stealth takedowns into water pools to drown people.) Plus cunning action means I could choose something other than eagle for totem and still have 80 feet of movement speed. The only thing waisted is sneak attack but that's 1d6 and nothing more, I'd rather have my hands hold a shield and a random guy I want dead with my bite as my weapon. Probably only going to get rogue once I get my extra attack and after those 2 levels I'll go pure barbarian. I decided to check rules on drowning and it's gunna take 1 + opponent's con modifier rounds to make them go unconscious which is nice if your out of combat but in combat you could spend those turns dealing a lot more damage so sadly the terrifying drowning strat won't work... doesn't mean it's not good out of combat

[Unoriginal]

I will say our DM only allows standard scores rn but that's still pretty good, I don't really see this as a major tank type character and more of a "rush in, take one guy, rush out" kinda character which would honestly be super fun to play. This is the build I have come to rn

STR 15
DEX 14
CON 14 (12 + 2 and I know it might be better to put the 14 in con not dex but I imagine this guy as being quite fast so having a good dex is something I'd like and a 14 is perfectly fine for con in my opinion, plus I'm gunna have a higher AC with this)
INT 10
WIS 14 (13 + 1 and this makes mind control less effective so ha! screw you bards!)
CHA 8

Barbarian X / rogue 2
Expertise in athletics and maybe stealth (stealth takedowns into water pools to drown people.) Plus cunning action means I could choose something other than eagle for totem and still have 80 feet of movement speed. The only thing waisted is sneak attack but that's 1d6 and nothing more, I'd rather have my hands hold a shield and a random guy I want dead with my bite as my weapon. Probably only going to get rogue once I get my extra attack and after those 2 levels I'll go pure barbarian. I decided to check rules on drowning and it's gunna take 1 + opponent's con modifier rounds to make them go unconscious which is nice if your out of combat but in combat you could spend those turns dealing a lot more damage so sadly the terrifying drowning strat won't work... doesn't mean it's not good out of combat

Drowning people may be not the most optimal, but the thing is, you don't have to drown them for the tactic to work.

Being dragged underwater is a huge hindrance for most combatants, especially when they then have to fight someone with a swimming speed, aka your Lizardfolk.

[sophontteks]

Some problems with your envisioning...

Your character doesn't have the dps to rush in and take someone out. You are giving up attacks to grapple, your unarmed attacks are weaker then weapons, and you have below average strength for a typical martial.

Once you have grappled someone, your movement is halved. You aren't getting out like rogues and monks would, and you are absolutely the center of the enemy's attention. You aren't escaping the creature you grappled either. It will be wailing on you the entire time.

Dragging people underwater is cool, but not the norm. Most often you are going to rush in and get yourself "stuck in." You can kite the enemy around a bit to keep from getting swarmed, but grappling by its nature is not a hit and run tactic.

To maximize your bite you may want to grapple multiple opponents. This means more damage incoming, but the effectiveness of controling the movement of two enemies is substantial.

Your character is a tank. You do below average damage relative to barbarians, who are not known for their damage output anyway. Your strength is battlefield control and tanking. In this role a high con is going to do you a world of good (remember barbarians get AC= to CON + DEX). Not that a 14 wisdom is a bad thing to have of course.

[Mystical-man]

Some problems with your envisioning...

Your character doesn't have the dps to rush in and take someone out. You are giving up attacks to grapple, your unarmed attacks are weaker then weapons, and you have below average strength for a typical martial.

Once you have grappled someone, your movement is halved. You aren't getting out like rogues and monks would, and you are absolutely the center of the enemy's attention. You aren't escaping the creature you grappled either. It will be wailing on you the entire time.

Dragging people underwater is cool, but not the norm. Most often you are going to rush in and get yourself "stuck in." You can kite the enemy around a bit to keep from getting swarmed, but grappling by its nature is not a hit and run tactic.

To maximize your bite you may want to grapple multiple opponents. This means more damage incoming, but the effectiveness of controling the movement of two enemies is substantial.

Your character is a tank. You do below average damage relative to barbarians, who are not known for their damage output anyway. Your strength is battlefield control and tanking. In this role a high con is going to do you a world of good (remember barbarians get AC= to CON + DEX). Not that a 14 wisdom is a bad thing to have of course.

hmmm, you have multiple good points there. Maybe trying to mix hit and run tactics with grappling wasn't the right way to go. I wanna keep to the theme of a STR based feral fighter. Maybe sticking to just either A)hit and run style or B)Tank grappler would be better. What choices would be good for builds based around these tactics, I think you still could do some hit and run style barbarian but you might need to be specific or multiclass. Would maybe mainly monk with a few levels of barb be good? Taking eagle totem could be powerful and lead to massive movement speed.

[Unoriginal]

Yeah, I'm not the kind that'd tell you your character is bad unless you have 16 in your primary stat, but favoring DEX for CON doesn't really make sense here, especially when your OP makes quite clear you don't want a DEX based combatant.

Having 16 CON at lvl 1 is a major boon for your character, much more than DEX 14 and STR 15.

Being fast doesn't have much to do with DEX, anyway.

[CTurbo]

I will say our DM only allows standard scores rn but that's still pretty good, I don't really see this as a major tank type character and more of a "rush in, take one guy, rush out" kinda character which would honestly be super fun to play. This is the build I have come to rn

STR 15
DEX 14
CON 14 (12 + 2 and I know it might be better to put the 14 in con not dex but I imagine this guy as being quite fast so having a good dex is something I'd like and a 14 is perfectly fine for con in my opinion, plus I'm gunna have a higher AC with this)
INT 10
WIS 14 (13 + 1 and this makes mind control less effective so ha! screw you bards!)
CHA 8

Barbarian X / rogue 2
Expertise in athletics and maybe stealth (stealth takedowns into water pools to drown people.) Plus cunning action means I could choose something other than eagle for totem and still have 80 feet of movement speed. The only thing waisted is sneak attack but that's 1d6 and nothing more, I'd rather have my hands hold a shield and a random guy I want dead with my bite as my weapon. Probably only going to get rogue once I get my extra attack and after those 2 levels I'll go pure barbarian. I decided to check rules on drowning and it's gunna take 1 + opponent's con modifier rounds to make them go unconscious which is nice if your out of combat but in combat you could spend those turns dealing a lot more damage so sadly the terrifying drowning strat won't work... doesn't mean it's not good out of combat


15 Str
13 Dex
14+2 Con
10 Int
12+1 Wis
8 Cha


Take +1 Str and Dex at level 4
Take +2 Str at level 8
Take Res(Wis) at level 12
Take +2 Str at level 16

[strangebloke]

I will say our DM only allows standard scores rn but that's still pretty good, I don't really see this as a major tank type character and more of a "rush in, take one guy, rush out" kinda character which would honestly be super fun to play. This is the build I have come to rn

STR 15
DEX 14
CON 14 (12 + 2 and I know it might be better to put the 14 in con not dex but I imagine this guy as being quite fast so having a good dex is something I'd like and a 14 is perfectly fine for con in my opinion, plus I'm gunna have a higher AC with this)
INT 10
WIS 14 (13 + 1 and this makes mind control less effective so ha! screw you bards!)
CHA 8

Barbarian X / rogue 2
Expertise in athletics and maybe stealth (stealth takedowns into water pools to drown people.) Plus cunning action means I could choose something other than eagle for totem and still have 80 feet of movement speed. The only thing waisted is sneak attack but that's 1d6 and nothing more, I'd rather have my hands hold a shield and a random guy I want dead with my bite as my weapon. Probably only going to get rogue once I get my extra attack and after those 2 levels I'll go pure barbarian. I decided to check rules on drowning and it's gunna take 1 + opponent's con modifier rounds to make them go unconscious which is nice if your out of combat but in combat you could spend those turns dealing a lot more damage so sadly the terrifying drowning strat won't work... doesn't mean it's not good out of combat

A few things:

1. You'll note that I advised elk Totem, not eagle. Elk gives you +15 foot walking speed. By level seven your walking speed would be 55 feet and your swimming speed would be 40 feet. Then you can double your movement with bonus action dashing. This is important because dragging someone you're grappling costs double movement.

So with this you can run 40 feet, grab someone, then drag them 35 feet back.

2. Dragging someone underwater has other benefits. If they can't breathe underwater, they can't cast spells with verbal components. If this is an isolated enemy, they can't sound the alarm. If they aren't isolated, this is a good way to get them isolated.

But the biggest bonus is this: "When making a melee weapon attack, a creature that doesn’t have a swimming speed (either natural or granted by magic) has disadvantage on the attack roll unless the weapon is a dagger, javelin, shortsword, spear, or trident."

So when underwater against an opponent, you'll have constant advantage, they'll attack normally, they can't cast, and you'll resist all bludgeoning, slashing, piercing, and fire damage. Pretty sweet!

3. If you aren't grappling, you can use a short sword for one of your attacks to get the sneak attack off. You can even use two weapon fighting and deal more damage than a great weapon barbarian (before feats). Your Dex isn't terrible, so be sure to have a bow and a few javelins available for those pesky flyers. Finally, you might consider tavern brawler for your first ASI, so that you don't have to sacrifice an attack to grapple.

4. See if you can get your claws on some mithril half plate. Maybe take the skukler feat. Stealth is good.

[sophontteks]

hmmm, you have multiple good points there. Maybe trying to mix hit and run tactics with grappling wasn't the right way to go. I wanna keep to the theme of a STR based feral fighter. Maybe sticking to just either A)hit and run style or B)Tank grappler would be better. What choices would be good for builds based around these tactics, I think you still could do some hit and run style barbarian but you might need to be specific or multiclass. Would maybe mainly monk with a few levels of barb be good? Taking eagle totem could be powerful and lead to massive movement speed.
The build concept still works just fine. You just arent quite envisioning how it will work. You can effectively burst into their backline and drag an opponent away, but the enemy isn't just going to watch you do this.

Barbarians take half damage from attacks and have a pile of HP. Its not a problem. Conversely, your teammates may have an issue if your barbarian runs and allows the enemy to attack their squishy characters. Most people expect barbarians to be the front line.

[Mystical-man]

The build concept still works just fine. You just arent quite envisioning how it will work. You can effectively burst into their backline and drag an opponent away, but the enemy isn't just going to watch you do this.

Barbarians take half damage from attacks and have a pile of HP. Its not a problem. Conversely, your teammates may have an issue if your barbarian runs and allows the enemy to attack their squishy characters. Most people expect barbarians to be the front line.

Well true but I'm not building this to really be a conventional barbarian tank, I would if it needed to be but this is more for if we already have a tank and I just wanna have a more different barbarian concept.

[Mystical-man]

A few things:

1. You'll note that I advised elk Totem, not eagle. Elk gives you +15 foot walking speed. By level seven your walking speed would be 55 feet and your swimming speed would be 40 feet. Then you can double your movement with bonus action dashing. This is important because dragging someone you're grappling costs double movement.

So with this you can run 40 feet, grab someone, then drag them 35 feet back.

2. Dragging someone underwater has other benefits. If they can't breathe underwater, they can't cast spells with verbal components. If this is an isolated enemy, they can't sound the alarm. If they aren't isolated, this is a good way to get them isolated.

But the biggest bonus is this: "When making a melee weapon attack, a creature that doesn’t have a swimming speed (either natural or granted by magic) has disadvantage on the attack roll unless the weapon is a dagger, javelin, shortsword, spear, or trident."

So when underwater against an opponent, you'll have constant advantage, they'll attack normally, they can't cast, and you'll resist all bludgeoning, slashing, piercing, and fire damage. Pretty sweet!

3. If you aren't grappling, you can use a short sword for one of your attacks to get the sneak attack off. You can even use two weapon fighting and deal more damage than a great weapon barbarian (before feats). Your Dex isn't terrible, so be sure to have a bow and a few javelins available for those pesky flyers. Finally, you might consider tavern brawler for your first ASI, so that you don't have to sacrifice an attack to grapple.

4. See if you can get your claws on some mithril half plate. Maybe take the skukler feat. Stealth is good.

hmmmm, pretty good suggestions and I'll take them into account. Dragging people into water will help in more ways than one and mithril halfplate sounds nice. Elk barbarian would also lead to just massive movement speed

[sophontteks]

Well true but I'm not building this to really be a conventional barbarian tank.
That shouldn't be an issue. You are well outside conventional, but playing the tank class with a +2 con race is going to make you a good tank, even if you don't want to be.:smallwink:

[strangebloke]

hmmmm, pretty good suggestions and I'll take them into account. Dragging people into water will help in more ways than one and mithril halfplate sounds nice. Elk barbarian would also lead to just massive movement speed

My goal when making a character is to make them okay at most everything but really good at 1 or 2 things.

Your build is ultra-fast, quite sneaky, and pretty much impossible to beat in a wrestling match, in addition to having all the normal barbarian goodness.

As a final note: I would typically reccomend starting with the Barbarian levels. Otherwise you'll fall behind in damage dealing capacity and feats when compared to everyone else.

[Rixitichil]

It is worth noting that if you are built for good grabs, you can also Shove people prone or into danger as and when terrain allows. The build shines in putting enemies back into awful zones your party's casters have created. Remember you have access to javelins if you need them. I'd be surprised by the DM who wouldn't at least consider whether the shield or javelin forged from a dragon deserves to be something more than a standard item, but that might just be the playgroups I'm part of. If nothing else having an item forged from each of the fiercest creatures your party has faced is pretty awesome.