Relentless avenger and PAM

[Aussiehams]

G'day all.

Just after some advice on an idea I had to see if it works, or is too cheesy.

Vengeance Pally with Warcaster, PAM, booming blade and relentless avenger. Cast compel duel on BBEG, when they enter your reach take your AoO with booming blade then retreat. The BBEG then has to eat the BB damage to chase you, or take disadvantage to target anyone else. Depending on move distances you can possibly kite them around for a while.

Thoughts?

[Xihirli]

Booming Blade has a range of five feet. You need the Distant Metamagic or the Spell Sniper Feat to use it as your polearm Attack of opportunity.

Edit: fixed “extended” to “distant.”

[LudicSavant]

Booming Blade has a range of five feet. You need the Distant Metamagic or the Spell Sniper Feat to use it as your polearm Attack of opportunity.

He didn't actually say he was using a glaive. For all you know he could be using a spear or quarterstaff with a reach of 5 feet.

Also, War Caster technically doesn't give you an attack of opportunity. It specifically allows you to cast a reaction spell rather than using your opportunity attack. This is a problem for Relentless Avenger, because it triggers off of when you hit with an opportunity attack.


When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack.

[Aussiehams]

He didn't actually say he was using a glaive. For all you know he could be using a spear or quarterstaff with a reach of 5 feet.

Also, War Caster technically doesn't give you an attack of opportunity. It specifically allows you to cast a reaction spell rather than using your opportunity attack. This is a problem for Relentless Avenger, because it triggers off of when you hit with an opportunity attack.

I was thinking spear and shield, just to up the cheese.

Thanks for the War caster clarification. I'm AFB, and I thought I might be missing something.

[Benny89]

Warcaster doesn't allow you to use attack of opportunity AS an casting attack. It allows you to cast spell rather than opportunity attack.

Which is not THAT bad, as Vengeance Paladin you can cast Hold Person as a reaction, however it's not ideal:

Target gets two save throws- innitial and at the end of it's turn. It's still possible that he will fail two save throws- then it's bye bye - auto critics with smites.

However if you want to do spell -> execution combo it's better to simply use "Ready action" with following triggers to avoid enemy double save throw (skip his turn):

- At the beginning of my next turn I cast "Hold Person".
- When my allies attack target next to me in any way I cast "Hold Person" (make sure your ally is next in Innitiative order).
- When enemy finish all his actions (bascielly his turn but worded better for roleplay purpuse).
- Or when ally shouts "Now!" - also make sure ally is next in initiative order.

This way you can get Hold Person as reaction with only one save AFTER enemy finished his turn so you can make execution combo.

If you want to use spells as combos in your own turn- you should multiclass to sorcerer after level 4 or 6 and get Quickened Spell. Then you cast spells as bonus action.

As for Warcaster for pure Paladin- you are much better with resilent (CON) instead and starting with uneven CON number so it can round that up.

And if you want to utilize fully PAM + Relentless Avenger combo you can either:

1. By RAW- take sentinel and you can keep one enemy perma CCed as you move away from him each turn, he can't move, then next turn he can move to you again, triggering another OA from PAM -> Sentinel movement reduction -> rise and repeat. Great for dueling with single enemy like melee bosses. With Haste on you can move 30 feet away after each OA.
2. By using UA (so ask DM for approval)- Tunnel Fighter. You can make infinite OAs with Tunnel Fighter when triggered with PAM as you don't use reaction on Opportunity Attacks. This means you can face horde of enemies- all come into your range, you OA them all, move away with Avenger, then move again, you attack them all again and repeat till they have no more movement in their turn.

Both options are great for Vengeance Paladin as first enhance his single target dueling style (you can basicelly sting like a bee every round with advantage till target bleeds out while you are always away from his reach) and second make you best melee horde-slaying mobile tank in game (but on broken side, so talk with your DM first).