Character that wields a huge chain as main weapon

[CTurbo]

I've always loved the idea of a Fighter or Barbarian that uses a very large iron chain in combat.

I guess my questions are how would you stat a large chain as a weapon? Would you reskin a current weapon? If so, which one? What's the heaviest a large chain could be before it's deemed too heavy for regular attack usage? Mauls are 10lb and Pikes are 18lb.


What I'm envisioning is a chain large enough to deal at the very least 2d6 Maul damage. I was even considering 3d4 damage instead. It does NOT have to have the reach property. I'm not looking for a chain whip type weapon. More like brutal bludgeoning damage. So when I say "large" I don't really mean long. So what's a good length for such a thing? 4ft? I was thinking the links would be big enough that you could get your hand through to hold

I'm not looking to make a clearly superior new weapon to the existing weapons. I'm just looking to make this as big as possible without being TOO big to use.


Heavy Chain - 2d6 bludgeoning damage - Heavy, Two-handed - ???lbs - ???length


Is 3d4 a bad idea?

[Particle_Man]

You might want to look at the dmg under wuxia weapons for reskinning ideas. Or under the monk. Like a three section staff is kind of like a big chain and uses quarter staff stats.

[Laserlight]

Just reskin whatever weapon you want, and make it Bludgeoning.
If I were doing it, I'd make it weigh, oh, 50% more than whatever weapon you're refluffing (because for a swung weapon, you want more weight toward the tip, not even along the length), and I'd have it be d12 instead of 2d6 (because I think a chain would be more variable in its impact since you can't target it very accurately).

[Taebyn]

I agree with reskin. I feel like it would be less damage than a maul though. 2d4 add proficiency or expertise if already proficient to grapple checks vs equal size or smaller creatures.

[CTurbo]

Well that's what I'm asking. How big does it have to be to deal Maul level damage? That's what im going for. I don't want it to do anything fancy like grapple or have reach. Just deal massive damage.

I think a huge boat anchor chain would be a brutal weapon. I know in real life one of those would be too big and heavy to yield but we're talking D&D here after all.

[Taebyn]

I think you have to have something at the end of the chain, so that the energy from impact isn’t divided across the chain. An anchor would definitely be that. Otherwise it just doesn’t seem right. Just an opinion though. I do like the visual imagery it creates.

Perhaps an oversized morning star without the handle. The spiked ball could be reskinned to an oversized broken link, resembling a hook? Total length 4 ft

[CTurbo]

I think you have to have something at the end of the chain, so that the energy from impact isn’t divided across the chain. An anchor would definitely be that. Otherwise it just doesn’t seem right. Just an opinion though. I do like the visual imagery it creates.

Perhaps an oversized morning star without the handle. The spiked ball could be reskinned to an oversized broken link, resembling a hook? Total length 4 ft

I considered that, but would really rather keep it simple. It shouldn't be any different than using a quarterstaff two handed to whack somebody with. Just much heavier and fluid

Is it that everybody feels like my idea would do less than Maul damage? I think getting hit with a huge chain would be devastating lol

Like knock you on your butt devastating lol

[Unoriginal]

Just take the stats for a Maul and change the name to "Chain". You now have a chain as heavy as a maul, doing the same damages.

[Knaight]

Is it that everybody feels like my idea would do less than Maul damage? I think getting hit with a huge chain would be devastating lol

Like knock you on your butt devastating lol

Similar effects can be observed when hit by anything reasonably described as a maul.

[Laserlight]

Is it that everybody feels like my idea would do less than Maul damage? I think getting hit with a huge chain would be devastating lol

Like knock you on your butt devastating

"I have a chain heavy enough to do Maul damage."

"How heavy is it?"

"I can carry 300lb, so who cares?"

[Kadesh]

Heavy bludgeoning weapon? Sounds like a maul to me.

[SirGraystone]

What make the damage of a maul is the heavy weight at the end, your chain would need an heavy steel ball or something at the end to do the same but then it become some kind of flail weapon.

[EggKookoo]

One of my players used a relatively long chain. I made it work like a whip with some changes. Damage became 1d6 bludgeoning and it lost the finesse property. I would have increased the weight but honestly most of the time we don't care about that.

[Kadesh]

What make the damage of a maul is the heavy weight at the end, your chain would need an heavy steel ball or something at the end to do the same but then it become some kind of flail weapon.
Not really, no. What makes the damage of the maul is that it is a Martial Proficiency Heavy Bludgeoning Weapon wielded in two hands.

[Slayn82]

A chain with a hook on the point? I'd say the chain would be able to be used either as a flail, or as a whip. If you need range, you change to whip mode, and use the hook for slashing. If you get close, you grab it by the middle and bludgeons your target.

[Imbalance]

Gonna stick my neck out here with some IRL anecdotes, but as someone who has used a 10lb maul for mundane purposes as well as stupidly playing at combat with a heavy chain I would say just re-skin whatever you want, because the idea of using a heavy chain as an effective weapon comparable to a war hammer is pure fantasy.

[Ganymede]

I'd let you count a length of chain as a flail and that's as far as I'd be willing to go.

[Sjappo]

I would let the player reskin any weapon he wanted, seeing as it has zero mechanical impact on the game.

[Misterwhisper]

In the scarred lands book for 5e, there is a spiked chain weapon and even a feat specific to it. Not official though.

[FirstBornSon]

Chain devil has chain. It is 10ft reach 2d6 slashing weapon.

[Benny89]

As I DM I would give chain 2d4 damage or give it 1d6 damage and give it "versitile" when using two hands and give it 1d8 then.

To add flavour to it I would give it an option that you can use "grapple" attack with it (DC 10 + attacker proficiency vs DEX save, no damage) and you can wrap chains around enemy leg/s.

Enough to make normal weapon but also give it a little bit of utility.

[EggKookoo]

Chain devil has chain. It is 10ft reach 2d6 slashing weapon.

I would not have expected slashing.

[CTurbo]

The Chain Devil's chains have knives or swords at the end of them.

I think some of you are missing the point here.

I'm not looking for this to have reach or any fancy utility feature like grapple or whatnot.

I want a huge chain that deals 2d6 bludgeoning damage. The question is, how big does it need to be to achieve that?

Am I the only one that can see a huge chain like as big around as your arm and probably 4-5ft long just being a devastating thing to hit somebody or something with?

[Unoriginal]

Chain devil has chain. It is 10ft reach 2d6 slashing weapon.

The Tlincalli, the Shadar-kai Shadow Dancer and the Ogre Chain Brute all have chains as weapons, and none of those chains have the same stats.


I would not have expected slashing.

Chain Devils have blades on their chains.

[Unoriginal]

I want a huge chain that deals 2d6 bludgeoning damage. The question is, how big does it need to be to achieve that?


It doesn't matter how big it is. Just say that it's big enough to to do.



Am I the only one that can see a huge chain like as big around as your arm and probably 4-5ft long just being a devastating thing to hit somebody or something with?

In real life? Hitting people with thick, 5ft long objects can be devastating, yes. Such a chain isn't going to be a practical weapon, though, and will probably be less damaging than, say, a club or a bar made with the same quantity of metal

In D&D? Even a 10ft chain is defined as a 1d6 weapon.

[EggKookoo]

In real life? Hitting people with thick, 5ft long objects can be devastating, yes. Such a chain isn't going to be a practical weapon, though, and will probably be less damaging than, say, a club or a bar made with the same quantity of metal

It would also weigh a ton, and be kind of deadweight at that (you can't prop it). My arm thickness varies like everyone's, so let's just say each link is 5" wide by roughly 8" long. That's just under 10lbs of steel -- per link! You would need 13 links to make a 4.5 foot chain, so you've got a weapon that weighs in the neighborhood of 130lbs. And again, you can't easily rest that against your shoulder and you're going to be fighting its tendency to overswing all the time. Ridiculous real-world Strength calculations in D&D aside, it's hard to believe you're going to be swinging that much at all.

Maybe I misunderstood what "as big around as your arm" meant?

[CTurbo]

It would also weigh a ton, and be kind of deadweight at that (you can't prop it). My arm thickness varies like everyone's, so let's just say each link is 5" wide by roughly 8" long. That's just under 10lbs of steel -- per link! You would need 13 links to make a 4.5 foot chain, so you've got a weapon that weighs in the neighborhood of 130lbs. And again, you can't easily rest that against your shoulder and you're going to be fighting its tendency to overswing all the time. Ridiculous real-world Strength calculations in D&D aside, it's hard to believe you're going to be swinging that much at all.

Maybe I misunderstood what "as big around as your arm" meant?


You're getting closer to what I was envisioning but yeah 130bs is too much even for D&D. I don't know where you got those calculations from but what if the links were more like 3.5" x 6"?

Also, I was imagining it draped over the shoulder while not in use. Maybe even around the back if the neck.

[EggKookoo]

You're getting closer to what I was envisioning but yeah 130bs is too much even for D&D. I don't know where you got those calculations from but what if the links were more like 3.5" x 6"?

I just found a metal weight calculator online (https://www.bostoncenterless.com/tools/metal-weight-calculator/). I used the "ring" setting and fudged the dimensions a bit, so I might be off. I averaged the two diameters and assumed the links were 1.5 inches in cross-section. You might be able to get a more accurate number. I don't know if you'd get a chain down to the weight levels of a typical D&D weapon without the links getting down to 1" wide or so, which then explains why the damage hangs around the d6 level.

[Imbalance]

Am I the only one that can see a huge chain like as big around as your arm and probably 4-5ft long just being a devastating thing to hit somebody or something with?

You're not wrong. Taking a hit from such an object in motion will transfer a great deal of energy to the target and cause damage. The problem is that much of the inertia is also soaked up by the flexibility of the chain. It's like pushing a lead noodle. Further, the attacker will struggle against the weight of this weapon with every swing, and quite often risks that it will recoil haphazardly and injure the weilder. Hell, you'll pinch your fingers off just trying to hold on to the end of it. What you've described is more of a liability in a fight than any of countless implements of proven reliability.

But again, it's your imagination, so roll with it.

[Crgaston]

The Chain Devil's chains have knives or swords at the end of them.

I think some of you are missing the point here.

I'm not looking for this to have reach or any fancy utility feature like grapple or whatnot.

I want a huge chain that deals 2d6 bludgeoning damage. The question is, how big does it need to be to achieve that?

Am I the only one that can see a huge chain like as big around as your arm and probably 4-5ft long just being a devastating thing to hit somebody or something with?

Well, to try to answer your question, it's got 5' reach so make it 2-4' long. You could carry it draped over your shoulders relatively easily.

Weight... I believe the weights listed on the weapons tables are a mix of actual weight and "encumbrance value" of earlier editions, so some might be lighter or heavier based on how easy they are to carry, so you'd take size, shape and mass into account. 30 pounds sounds like a good figure, but it could of course be more if you're talking about a 20 Str Goliath or something.

To inject some realism into the thought process...

http://blueoceantackle.com/marine-supply-equipment/anchor-chain-and-mooring-chain/stud-link-anchor-chain/

So to extrapolate from the linked table, a 4' section of 1" diameter wire formed into links 6" long and 4.5" wide would weigh right around 35 pounds.

[EggKookoo]

So to extrapolate from the linked table, a 4' section of 1" diameter wire formed into links 6" long and 4.5" wide would weigh right around 35 pounds.

Ok, so that's much lighter than my estimate. Still pretty durn heavy.

[CTurbo]

Well, to try to answer your question, it's got 5' reach so make it 2-4' long. You could carry it draped over your shoulders relatively easily.

Weight... I believe the weights listed on the weapons tables are a mix of actual weight and "encumbrance value" of earlier editions, so some might be lighter or heavier based on how easy they are to carry, so you'd take size, shape and mass into account. 30 pounds sounds like a good figure, but it could of course be more if you're talking about a 20 Str Goliath or something.

To inject some realism into the thought process...

http://blueoceantackle.com/marine-supply-equipment/anchor-chain-and-mooring-chain/stud-link-anchor-chain/

So to extrapolate from the linked table, a 4' section of 1" diameter wire formed into links 6" long and 4.5" wide would weigh right around 35 pounds.


Thank you! This was really close to what I was thinking. 35lbs sounds really heavy but at least in the ballpark. I did want it on the high end of weight as it's not supposed to be a typical weapon. That's part of the fun of it.

I did consider the idea of not allowing the proficiency bonus to hit since it would be so heavy and unwieldy. Making it have disadvantage to attack is too steep a penalty. I also considered not letting it have the proficiency bonus to attack but letting it be added to the damage instead.

So a 20 Str level 8 Fighter would have +5 to attack and do 2d6+8 damage instead of +8 to attack and do 2d6+5 damage.

[Crgaston]

Ok, so that's much lighter than my estimate. Still pretty durn heavy.

To be fair to yourself, the link size you used would be twice as heavy per foot as the ones I used, so you're not THAT far off!

[Man_Over_Game]

A few real-life examples of what you might be describing:

Kusari-fundo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusari-fundo): Small weights on both ends of a chain, designed to quickly cripple a target. Was used when the Japanese couldn't use swords. Illegal in Ireland and Massachusetts.

Meteor hammer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_hammer): Giant weights on one or both ends of a chain, designed to brutally cripple and crush enemies. Used often as a form of dancing than combat. Best recognized as the weapon Gogo (Crazy Asian Schoolgirl) used in Kill Bill Volume 1.

Surujin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surujin): Similar to the Kusari-Fundo, made of rope with a metal spike on one end, often used to lasso around an enemy before finishing him off.

In my games, I use a slightly modified weapon list that incorporates chain weapons (chain weapon as an overall "class" of weapon, you pick what it looks like):

It has these new traits:

Grappling (Can use the attack modifier and reach for grappling with this weapon. Cannot attack with this weapon while maintaining a grapple with it)

It also has Reach, Two Handed and Heavy. It deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage.

The Whip is similar, but has Finesse, Reach, Grappling and Unbalanced (Disadvantage to attack enemies that are adjacent to you), and still deals 1d4 damage.

[GlenSmash!]

Thank you! This was really close to what I was thinking. 35lbs sounds really heavy but at least in the ballpark. I did want it on the high end of weight as it's not supposed to be a typical weapon. That's part of the fun of it.

This seems pretty good.

It's 3.5 times the weight of a Maul, but a Maul has most of it's weight at the business end, not distributed evenly throughout like a chain.