PF - Intelligent Magic Items and CR Calculation

[unseenmage]

Intelligent Magic Items are technically supposed to be Constructs. Which normally doesnt matter as they rarely have mobility of their own and get included in the equipment of an encounter.

However, if the Intelligent Magic Item has mobility it can theoretically pose a threat to the party all on its own.

Unlike 3.x, PF Int Magic Items can have the 'legs' special quality which gives them a very slow move speed.
Not to mention that if the Int Magic Item has access to Telekinesis or similar at will it can be self mobile too.

So what if you only encounter an aggressive, self mobile Intelligent Magic Item as your adversary?

So, using the Monster Creation guidelines (http://legacy.aonprd.com/bestiary/monsterCreation.html), what CR values could we assign to the various Intelligent Magic Item superpowers?


EDIT Moved Portable Hole Qs to their own thread.

[Florian]

Intelligent Magic Items are technically supposed to be Constructs.

No, they're not. This is one of the cases that some try to turn the specific into general and it still doesn't hold true.

[Jack_Simth]

No, they're not. This is one of the cases that some try to turn the specific into general and it still doesn't hold true.

They are explicitly constructs for purposes of type. They don't have any hit dice, though, unless you're talking a Figurine of Wondrous Power, a Rod of the Serpent, or similar - and then only while active.

The Pathfinder version goes:

Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Treat them as constructs. Intelligent items often have the ability to illuminate their surroundings at will (as magic weapons do); many cannot see otherwise.

[inuyasha]

So I suppose we could maybe use a modified version of VT's Challenge Rating equation?


#1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.

#2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.

#3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if its got a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).

#4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.

#5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.

#6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR

Replace Hit Dice with... I dunno, caster level of the effects that it's using to aid itself in combat (after all, if it has Fireball, this'll equate it with a Wizard who would probably be using Fireball anyway). DR becomes hardness, AC and HP are determined by size and what kind of item (though I'd give a NA bonus if applicable). From there, add +1 per major power that's combat worthy, and I mean major power as in Intelligent Item special things, regular item powers, and powers that you add for fun effect, like an intelligent bag of holding being able to grapple and swallow small targets or something.

It's rough, it's probably super inaccurate, but if an animate, hostile intelligent item is what you're looking for, this might help a little bit?

[Florian]

They are explicitly constructs for purposes of type.

Yes. That is a short-hand when dealing with the situation that they are actually targeted individually or some of their effects have to be calculated based on something. This is what I mean with the exception not making the rule.

Beyond that, an intelligent magic item is calculated as part of enemy WBL and that's it.

[Jack_Simth]

Yes. That is a short-hand when dealing with the situation that they are actually targeted individually or some of their effects have to be calculated based on something. This is what I mean with the exception not making the rule.

Beyond that, an intelligent magic item is calculated as part of enemy WBL and that's it.

If an intelligent Rod of the Serpent activates itself, hits you with a Fireball, and kills a member of your (low level, in this scenario) party before you break it, would you expect not to get xp like you would for any other encounter?

[Florian]

If an intelligent Rod of the Serpent activates itself, hits you with a Fireball, and kills a member of your (low level, in this scenario) party before you break it, would you expect not to get xp like you would for any other encounter?

Same as Summon Monster, Summon Nature´s Ally, Children of the Night or similar abilities: No, so long as it is part of another entirely different encounter and the resource is reduced from the main encounter (in this case, WBL).

[Jack_Simth]

Same as Summon Monster, Summon Nature´s Ally, Children of the Night or similar abilities: No, so long as it is part of another entirely different encounter and the resource is reduced from the main encounter (in this case, WBL).

The point of the OP seems to be "what about when it is NOT part of another encounter?"

A scenario under which, I might add, you would get XP for a summon.

[unseenmage]

The point of the OP seems to be "what about when it is NOT part of another encounter?"

A scenario under which, I might add, you would get XP for a summon.
This.
And the Migrus is a thing. A horrible, awful thing.