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LichPlease
2018-12-24, 08:56 PM
This is what I have made for an Antipaladin class that is essentially an exact parallel to the Paladin, very similar to how the Antipaladin in Pathfinder was created. Mainly just wondering if this is balanced and if not, what changes could be made to make it balanced. Proper wording will come later when finalized. Ideas for Oaths are welcome as well.


Armor – no change
Weapons – no change
Tools – no change
Saving Throws
Constitution, Charisma.
I would say an Antipaladin is typically lacking wisdom by swearing loyalty to whatever evil being and considering they also practically frolic in disease and decay, Constitution saves are better suited for this class.
Skills
Pick 2 from Athletics, Deception, Intimidation, Persuasion, Religion and Survival.
Again, an Antipaladin is likely lacking in good insight and probably wouldn’t care to study medicine. However, I’m sure an Antipaladin is very practiced in deception and probably needs to be self-sufficient (survival) as most of society has probably shunned them and any other society that would accept the Antipaladin probably already expects its citizens to fend for themselves.


Profane Sense (1st Level)
No changes from Divine Sense.
Touch of Corruption (1st Level)
Instead of healing/removing afflictions, spend X points and make a melee spell attack to deal X necrotic damage (no damage to fiends, undead and constructs). Alternatively heal X HP to undead or fiend.
Fighting Style (2nd Level)
Same except replace Protection with Two-Weapon Fighting
Spellcasting (2nd Level)
Same, but spell list is dramatically changed to typical Antipaladin spells.
Unholy Smite (2nd Level)
Identical but now deals necrotic damage and increased damage against celestials instead of undead/fiends (plus maybe another type of creature).
Plague Bringer (3rd Level)
You can still be a carrier of disease, you just suffer none of a disease’s effects. Additionally, you can expend 5 Touch of Corruption points to transfer a disease from yourself to another creature with a successful melee spell attack. On a successful melee spell attack, you are no longer a carrier of the disease. Creature makes Constitution saves against your spell save DC as if it had Contagion cast upon it but the end effect is only the particular disease you transferred. Cannot transfer diseases to fiends, undead or constructs.
Diabolical Oath (3rd Level)
Listed below.
Ability Score Increase
No changes.
Extra Attack (5th Level)
No changes.
Aura of Despair (6th Level)
Hostile creatures within the 10 ft. aura have their saving throws reduced by 2.
Aura of Cowardice (10th Level)
Hostile creatures within 10 ft. aura make Wisdom save versus your spell save DC to avoid being frightened. Creature is allowed to make another save at end of each of its turns to end effect. Creature is immune to effect for 24 hours after a successful save.
Improved Unholy Smite Damage (11th Level)
Again, identical to original but changed to necrotic damage.
Vindictive Touch (14th Level)
End one spell affecting you, make melee spell attack against a creature and creature makes any saves necessary for the spell versus your spell save DC. Can use ability number of times equal to Charisma modifier.
Aura Improvements (18th Level)
No changes.



Oath Spells (Always Prepared):
3rd – false life, ray of sickness
5th – blindness/deafness, ray of enfeeblement
9th – animate dead, vampiric touch
13th – blight, death ward
17th – danse macabre, negative energy flood
Channel Divinity (3rd Level):
-Control Undead – identical to Oathbreaker’s.
-Consume Corpse – Spend 10 minutes ravenously consuming the flesh of a corpse of a small, medium or large creature to restore hit points. The amount healed is equal to a number of d6s equal to half your Antipaladin level. The dead body must have flesh to consume and once consumed, the corpse is destroyed.
Aura of Unlife (7th Level) – Option to turn any small/medium humanoid corpse in radius to rise as zombie with 1 HP. Can only attack. Zombie dies when it ends its turn outside of the aura. These zombies take turn immediately after yours.
Undead Anatomy (15th Level) – You no longer need to eat, drink, sleep and you are immune to poison damage and the poisoned condition.
Ghoulish Transformation (20th Level) – For 1 minute, when reduced to 0 HP make Con save versus half damage taken and be reduced to 1 HP instead if successful. Heal HP equal half of any necrotic damage you deal. Gain the ghouls claw attack using your attack and damage modifiers.


Oath Spells (Always Prepared):
3rd – disguise self, silent image
5th – pass without trace, shadow blade
9th – major image, nondetection
13th – greater invisibility, phantasmal killer
17th – mislead, seeming
Channel Divinity (3rd Level):
-Eyes of the Void – can see in magical darkness (120 ft.) until you use channel divinity again.
-Mantle of the Night – advantage on stealth checks until you use channel divinity again.
Aura of Darkness (7th Level) – all light in 10 ft. radius around you is reduced by 1 level. If you are already in complete darkness, the aura produces magical darkness that you can see through. You still cannot normally see through other forms of magical darkness with this ability. You no longer have disadvantage on stealth checks due to armor.
Death in the Darkness (15th Level) – any hit you make on a surprised enemy is a critical hit.
Shade Form (20th Level) – For 1 hour, can cast invisibility at-will. Can pass through solid objects and ignore difficult terrain. Damage when ending turn in solid object. Resistant to all damage but vulnerable to radiant damage.


Oath Spells (Always Prepared):
3rd – hex, sleep
5th – enthrall, hold person
9th – bestow curse, hypnotic pattern
13th – charm monster, polymorph
17th – dominate person, hold monster
Channel Divinity (3rd Level):
-Misfortune – as bonus action, impose disadvantage on any one d20 roll target creature makes before the start of your next turn.
-Evil Eye – target is frightened of you as long as you can see it
Aura of Hate (7th Level) – Enemies are filled with a blinding disgust toward you. Hostile creatures in aura that are not under an enchantment spell effect must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw versus your spell save DC at the beginning of their turn to resist attacking you. If they fail they must attack you with disadvantage.
Hex Master (15th Level) - whenever you cast Bestow Curse, it is always treated as being cast at 5th level.
Witch Sovereign (20th Level) – You count as a hag for the purposes of forming a coven and can summon 3 green hag allies which remain in your service for 1 minute. You cannot use this ability again until you finish a long rest.


Oath Spells (Always Prepared):
3rd – burning hands, ray of sickness
5th – blindness/deafness, scorching ray
9th – fireball, stinking cloud
13th – vitriolic sphere, wall of fire
17th – immolation, insect plague
Channel Divinity (3rd Level):
-Hellfire - Target creature loses immunity/resistance to fire damage dealt from your spells. If target is not immune/resistant to fire damage, it gains vulnerability to fire damage from your spells. Lasts until beginning of your next turn. Costs no action.
-Abyssal Plague - As an action, a target makes a constitution saving throw versus any one of Contagion options. The disease is contracted on first failed saving throw. Due to fleeting extraplanar nature of disease, target is allowed another constitution saving throw at end of each of its turns to end effect. You cannot target yourself with this ability for the purpose of use with the Plague Bringer ability.
Aura of Pestilence (7th Level) – Each creature that enters or starts its turn within your 10 ft. aura must make constitution saving throw or be poisoned for 1 turn.
Fiendish Adaptation (15th Level) – resistant to fire and necrotic damage. Immune to poison.
Fiendish Overlord (20th Level) – Choose infernal or demonic. For 1 minute, you gain fiendish bat wings with flying speed equal to your movement speed. Your weapons attacks deal additional 2d6 fire (infernal) or necrotic damage (demonic). Can cast Fireball (infernal) or Stinking Cloud (demonic) at lowest level at-will.




Bane
Cause Fear
Command
Compelled Duel
Detect Evil and Good
Detect Magic
Detect Poison and Disease
Inflict Wounds
Protection from Evil and Good
Ray of Sickness
Searing Smite
Tasha's Hideous Laughter
Thunderous Smite
Wrathful Smite


Blindness/Deafness
Branding Smite
Crown of Madness
Darkness
Darkvision
Find Steed
Locate Object
Magic Weapon
Protection from Poison
Ray of Enfeeblement


Animate Dead
Bestow Curse
Blinding Smite
Dispel Magic
Elemental Weapon
Fear
Magic Circle
Slow
Stinking Cloud
Summon Lesser Demons
Vampiric Touch


Banishment
Blight
Confusion
Death Ward
Elemental Bane
Evard's Black Tentacles
Find Greater Steed
Locate Creature
Sickening Radiance
Staggering Smite
Summon Greater Demon


Banishing Smite
Cloudkill
Contagion
Destructive Wave
Dispel Evil and Good
Dominate Person
Geas
Infernal Calling

Clone
2018-12-25, 07:00 AM
I'm sure you considered this but why not just play an Oathbreaker or Conquest Paladin? Or maybe make a new oath instead of making an entirely new class?
Seems like it'd be far easier to do that.

But to actually look at the abilities you listed:
Most of them seem fine since its just changing the flavour or damage type of the abilities.
Aura of Despair is FAR too overpowered though. The number of ways to negatively impact a creature's saving throws can be counted on one hand and most of them require a saving in order to effect one type of save (Bestow Curse) or only for your abilities (Shadow Sorcerer). This antipaladin would be ridiculous in combat especially if they have some big casters to back them up. I see your logic in having it be a complete opposite but the implications are far more impactful.

CTurbo
2018-12-25, 07:52 AM
Fun idea. I can see making an Anti-Oath of Devotion subclass as well leaving most of the features the same but flipping them from good to evil.

Oath of Destruction

Channel Divinity
Starting at 3rd level:
Unholy Weapon: As an action, for 1 minute, you add your Charisma modifier to attack rolls made with a weapon of your choice (with a minimum bonus of +1).The weapon also reduces bright light in a 30ft radius to dim light. If the
weapon is not already magical, it becomes magical for the duration. You can end this effect on your turn as part of any other action. If you are no longer holding or carrying this weapon, or if you fall unconscious, this effect ends.

Turn the Holy: As an action, you can make any good aligned creature, provided that it's within 30 feet and that can see or hear you, make a Wisdom saving throw. If the creature fails its saving throw, it is turned for 1 minute or
until it takes damage. A turned creature must spend its turns trying to move as far away from you as it can, and it can't willingly move to a space within 30 feet of you. It also can't take reactions. For its action, it can use only the
Dash action or try to escape from an effect that prevents it from moving. If there's nowhere to move, the creature can use the Dodge action.

Aura of Devotion
Starting at 7th level, you and fiends and undead within 10 feet of you can't be charmed or turned while you are conscious. At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.

Impurity of Spirit
Beginning at 15th level, you are always under the effects of a Protection from Evil and Good spell.

Unholy Nimbus
At 20th level, as an action, you can emanate darkness. For 1 minute, you reduce bright light to darkness in a 10ft radius centered on you, and reduce bright light to dim 30ft beyond that. You can see in this darkness as if it were bright light. Whenever an enemy creature starts its turn in the darkness, the creature takes 10 plus your Cha mod Necrotic damage. In addition, for the duration, you have advantage on saving throws against spells cast by good aligned creatures.

Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest.


Don't really have time to change the spell list. Does this need a damage boost? I don't want to copy Oathbreaker too much. The Capstone's are already similar enough.

I also have an Oath of Corruption subclass idea revolving around charm and mistrust. Not sure if it would be best to refluff a current Oath or just make a new one.

LichPlease
2018-12-25, 08:57 AM
I'm sure you considered this but why not just play an Oathbreaker or Conquest Paladin? Or maybe make a new oath instead of making an entirely new class?
Seems like it'd be far easier to do that.

I do like Oathbreaker and Oath of Conquest for Antipaladins but the base Paladin features and spell list were bothersome. Being a healing and buffing support character kind of ruins the feel of an Antipaladin. I figured if I was going to make minor changes by turning some class features to the opposite of what they were, I might as well just go all-in.


But to actually look at the abilities you listed:
Most of them seem fine since its just changing the flavour or damage type of the abilities.
Aura of Despair is FAR too overpowered though. The number of ways to negatively impact a creature's saving throws can be counted on one hand and most of them require a saving in order to effect one type of save (Bestow Curse) or only for your abilities (Shadow Sorcerer). This antipaladin would be ridiculous in combat especially if they have some big casters to back them up. I see your logic in having it be a complete opposite but the implications are far more impactful.

Yeah, I had a pretty good feeling Aura of Despair was going to be way too good but I figured I would put it out there anyway. I think having it drop all effected creatures saving throws by 1 or 2 (but which?) would be more acceptable.

LichPlease
2018-12-25, 09:02 AM
Fun idea. I can see making an Anti-Oath of Devotion subclass as well leaving most of the features the same but flipping them from good to evil.


Don't really have time to change the spell list. Does this need a damage boost? I don't want to copy Oathbreaker too much. The Capstone's are already similar enough.

I also have an Oath of Corruption subclass idea revolving around charm and mistrust. Not sure if it would be best to refluff a current Oath or just make a new one.

Flipping current Oath features is a pretty good idea overall that I will definitely take into consideration. I'm surprised I didn't think of it already considering my method. Thank you.

I already have some rough drafts of about 4 Oaths written up. Will probably have 5-6 posted soon. Input on them is welcome as well. They will probably need it.

LichPlease
2018-12-25, 01:10 PM
Added first drafts of Diabolical Oaths, spell list and proficiencies. Looking for input on these as well.

JackPhoenix
2018-12-25, 02:08 PM
I do like Oathbreaker and Oath of Conquest for Antipaladins but the base Paladin features and spell list were bothersome. Being a healing and buffing support character kind of ruins the feel of an Antipaladin. I figured if I was going to make minor changes by turning some class features to the opposite of what they were, I might as well just go all-in.

You don't need to support or heal anyone beside yourself, you know? Even devils have healers and support, because just because they're evil doesn't mean they are stupid. Dying because you think protecting and keeping yourself alive isn't evil enough is counterproductive to the selfish goals of evil forces.

Eriol
2018-12-25, 09:15 PM
Just skimming, and what stood out to me is that Aura of Unlife is just like that Ravnica Spore Druid ability, except they get it at something like 14th level, and it requires a bonus action, and I think it's limited per day? I don't have it in front of me.

Putting it at level 7 and at will (you don't say what it consumes, if anything), seems really OP.

LichPlease
2018-12-26, 06:19 PM
You don't need to support or heal anyone beside yourself, you know? Even devils have healers and support, because just because they're evil doesn't mean they are stupid. Dying because you think protecting and keeping yourself alive isn't evil enough is counterproductive to the selfish goals of evil forces.

I was originally planning on letting the ability heal the Antipaladin along with the undead and fiends but wasn't sure if that would push it over the edge in power and the priority of the class is offense and debuffs versus healing and buff support.


Just skimming, and what stood out to me is that Aura of Unlife is just like that Ravnica Spore Druid ability, except they get it at something like 14th level, and it requires a bonus action, and I think it's limited per day? I don't have it in front of me.

Putting it at level 7 and at will (you don't say what it consumes, if anything), seems really OP.

Fungal Infestation comes online at level 6, but yes, this feature does still need to be reigned in a bit. Thanks.

Sception
2018-12-28, 01:49 PM
You don't need to support or heal anyone beside yourself, you know? Even devils have healers and support, because just because they're evil doesn't mean they are stupid. Dying because you think protecting and keeping yourself alive isn't evil enough is counterproductive to the selfish goals of evil forces.

I agree with this. Healing and buffing doesn't make a character good-aligned, it makes them a leader/commander/champion/rallying point. An anti-paladin should still be all those things, just for the forces of evil instead of good. A save buffing aura bolsters their undead minions against turning, healing spells keep their demonic allies in the fight, etc.

You're not going to find a more appropriate antipaladin feature than oathbreaker's level seven aura. Would would even be the inverse of that? A damage /suppression/ aura? Damage suppression would be a debuff instead of a buff, but it's the sort of debuff you'd associate with a goody two-shoes pacifist type character. See what I'm saying? Buffing != good, debuffing != evil, and the paladin's core spell list and features that make them a divine champion still work for a divine champion of evil.

There's still room I think for a dark knight type character with more selfish & self oriented features, but i think it would be better off built from the ground up as its own thing rather than just inverting all the paladin stuff. Especially since some of the paladin stuff gets super broken when inverted, in particular the save aura as others have already pointed out.

Trustypeaches
2018-12-29, 10:19 AM
I mean couldn't you just make more oaths or reflavor existing abilities?

I don't think anyone would be miffed if you changed the damage type of Paladin abilities like Divine Smite to necrotic / fire / whatever damage, so long as it isn't Force.

JackPhoenix
2018-12-29, 04:33 PM
I mean couldn't you just make more oaths or reflavor existing abilities?

I don't think anyone would be miffed if you changed the damage type of Paladin abilities like Divine Smite to necrotic / fire / whatever damage, so long as it isn't Force.

Even force is fine. Anything except radiant... including force... is actually a nerf unless you plan to fight angels.

People claim force is the best damage type. That's not true, radiant is. While there are 4 creatures resistant to radiant damage in MM (angels and couatl), nothing is immune and some creatures are vulnerable, either taking double damage (shadow demon) or having their special defenses turned off (vampire regeneration and zombie undying fortitude). Nothing is especially vulnerable to force damage, and while there are no force-resistant creatures, there's one force-immune creature (helmed horror).

And in most campaign, you're more likely to face zombies, vampires and animated armor 2.0 helmed horrors than angels. Playing an evil paladin may be an exception, though.