Giving druids two sub classes

[Brutalitops]

As a fun bit of theory crafting how broken would it be for druids to get the circle of the moon as well as another sub class.

I doubt I would ever use this in a game but I know that druid is the least played class according to most surveys and that moon druid is seen as a best and most interesting of the sub classes with better and more interesting uses of wild shape and I was wondering what if you gave the druid two sub classes. Would it break the game. Would it open up new abilities. Whats the general consensus.

[Hadoken]

Druids are already incredibly useful, and the power spikes they hit at certain levels, like moon druid at 2nd or conjure animals at 5th, are pretty big as is. I wouldn't do this unless you've already given major buffs to everyone else.

If you did anything, you might want to buff non-moon druid wild shapes, but even then I don't think you need to. Wildshaping is super useful as is.

[Tiadoppler]

From what I've seen, I don't think Druids are the least played because of power (which they have plenty of) or utility (which they have a ton of). I think they're unpopular for a few reasons:

Wildshaping powers are not currently a very common/popular fictional powerset. The stories of clever shapeshifters changing from rat to falcon to fish to evade their opponent doesn't fit in well with the stereotypical adventuring band walking through a dungeon beating up their opponents.


Also, there's a fair amount of extra work to keep track of all the stats of wildshape creatures. Being a druid who uses a lot of shapeshifting requires extra pages in your character sheet, or even bringing the monster manual to the table. Relatively few people want extra bookkeeping.



The fix I'd like to see is: the minor shapeshifting ability becomes optional, similar to the way Warlocks have multiple choices for pacts, the druids could have three choices: minor shapeshifting/spell damage boost/martial combat boost. This means that people who wanted to play full caster druids would have something to do if they weren't interested in using shapeshifting.


Many of the most interesting "druid-like" characters in fiction have a single animal form they can take. That's another thing that the druid fluff lacks: you could play a druid that only shapeshifts into one form, but that playstyle isn't supported, and involves voluntarily sacrificing a lot of versatility.

[Unoriginal]

Giving druids two subclasses would be incredibly broken, just like giving any class two subclasses.

Druids aren't unpopular because they're weak, as others have said. Giving them more power would change nothing.

[Tiadoppler]

I have no real interest in playing a druid character. To make the class more appealing to me (this is all my personal opinion), I'd want these options:


An option like the Warcraft character "Medivh" (The Warcraft III cutscenes are my favorite representations): A versatile spellcaster who has a single animal form they can use practically at-will. Maybe this would be best implemented as a Wizard archetype, rather than a Druid archetype.

A blaster focused on lightning and thunder. An unarmored Tempest cleric-like caster who has a buffed Shocking Grasp (a la Warlock's Eldritch Blast?) and can cast Shatter, Call Lightning, Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning with great effect. Perhaps this could be a Warlock Patron instead of a Druid Archetype.
(Rough Draft = Spirit of Storms Patron: Gain cantrip Shocking Grasp, Eldritch Blast does Lightning damage, Invocations that effect Eldritch Blast also effect Shocking Grasp. Spells: Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Call Lightning, Control Weather (etc.))

A support caster focused on plant-based magic and healing, along with summoning natural beasts.

(Moon Druid... a combat shapeshifter)

(Something like a 4e Warden, a very tough tank, adds CON to unarmored AC?)

[JackPhoenix]

An option like the Warcraft character "Medivh" (The Warcraft III cutscenes are my favorite representations): A versatile spellcaster who has a single animal form they can use practically at-will. Maybe this would be best implemented as a Wizard archetype, rather than a Druid archetype.

Medivh is a wizard/sorcerer with a magical staff that can Polymorph him into a single fixed form. It's not his power.

[Tiadoppler]

Medivh is a wizard/sorcerer with a magical staff that can Polymorph him into a single fixed form. It's not his power.

Oh, okay. You learn something new every day! Still, that general character type, a wizard who can turn into a single animal, is something I'd like to see in D&D. Other characters like this might include Arhu, in Divinity: Original Sin, or an animagus from Harry Potter.

[Brutalitops]

. I wouldn't do this unless you've already given major buffs to everyone else.

If you did anything, you might want to buff non-moon druid wild shapes


Firstly the idea came about when I theorizing giving major buffs to every class and I could not find a good buff for non moon druids.

Secondly do you have any recommendations for what would be a good buff for druids.

[nickl_2000]

Firstly the idea came about when I theorizing giving major buffs to every class and I could not find a good buff for non moon druids.

Secondly do you have any recommendations for what would be a good buff for druids.

What sort of buffs are you giving to other classes? Is hard to balance when you don't know what others are getting

[Hadoken]

Secondly do you have any recommendations for what would be a good buff for druids.

If you want to encourage druids to lean into their wild shape abilities, and you don't mind introducing power creep, you could give all druids temp HP when they shapeshift. Play around with the numbers, but maybe twice their druid level in temp HP. Another small but potentially important change would be to give druids the option of using their proficiency bonus + wis modifier for any attacks made by their new form, or the attack bonus listed in the stat block, whichever is better. These two changes would buff all druids when shapeshifting, and while they would make the power spikes even greater for moon druids, they would even out some of the doldrum levels for druids when their beast forms lag behind.

To balance this out, you could consider making the wild shape regenerate on a long rest. Or don't bother if the intention is to make everyone more powerful.

If you just want to buff non-moon druid wild shape, and you don't mind stepping on the toes of the moon druids a bit, increase the maximum CR available for the wild shape by one step. So instead of CR 1/4 at 2nd level, CR 1/2 at 4th, and CR 1 at 8th -- make it CR 1/2 at 2nd, CR 1 at 4th, and CR 2 at 8th. Leave the swim speed/flying speed restrictions in place.