Advice on system for new group

[KarlMarx]

Eyo all,

So I'm planning on starting a new group for D&D with some friends and acquaintances at college. Nobody there's really used to D&D, and I'm not sure what system to run to introduce it to them. My options in terms of what rulebooks I have are 3.PF and 5. I know the learning curve is a bit easier on 5e, but everyone in the group should be pretty quick to pick up either ruleset. It'd also be easier for us to find 3.PF content since the game store in town has a whole bunch of old books, which the owner is letting people use in the store. On the flip side, I feel like 3.PF might end poorly after we get to high levels, since people will be new enough to the game to think that a 3.5e monk and a 3.5e wizard are at remotely similar power levels...

That being said, 3.5e is where I got my start in D&D, and all else being equal is where I'd like to start from. Does anyone have any advice for making sure casters are on rough par with the rest of the party? I have access to the PF sourcebooks that give access to half caster classes; should I push people away from wizard/cleric/druid/etc. towards, say, 3.5e warlock, PF inquisitor, etc.? Does anyone else have any advice for how to make sure everyone's on rough par given the vagrancies of 3.PF?

[2D8HP]

...3.5e is where I got my start in D&D...


I prefer 5e to 3/Pathfinder, but I wouldn't DM either because I just don't remember the rules as well as TSR D&D, but since you're more familiar 3.5 it seems pretty clear to me that you should go with 3.5.

If you want to "dip your feet" into 5e, here's a free PDF (http://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf) of the most significant rules.

Both 5e and Pathfinder are fine games (as are many others), and as for worries about high level play?

Not playing at high levels is my solution.

[Man_Over_Game]

I prefer 5e to 3/Pathfinder, but I wouldn't DM either because I just don't remember the rules as well as TSR D&D, but since you're more familiar 3.5 it seems pretty clear to me that you should go with 3.5.

If you want to "dip your feet" into 5e, here's a free PDF (http://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/DnD_BasicRules_2018.pdf) of the most significant rules.

Both 5e and Pathfinder are fine games (as are many others), and as for worries about high level play?

Not playing at high levels is my solution.

Pretty spot on here. I will definitely say that 5E is definitely not as complex as 3.5/Pathfinder, and doesn't make so many exceptions that you need several rulebooks to track. That being said, playing through higher levels, or making up decisions on the fly, is a lot easier in 5e, but it doesn't have nearly as many options as 3.5/Pathfinder.

So 3/PF is a better choice since you have more experience in it and amongst experienced players (with multiple severe balance issues), where 5e has a lot better balance and difficulty curve, but doesn't support every character concept and lacks content.

Having played both options, I prefer 5e, I just wish it had more content for melee classes.

[KarlMarx]

Pretty spot on here. I will definitely say that 5E is definitely not as complex as 3.5/Pathfinder, and doesn't make so many exceptions that you need several rulebooks to track. That being said, playing through higher levels, or making up decisions on the fly, is a lot easier in 5e, but it doesn't have nearly as many options as 3.5/Pathfinder.

So 3/PF is a better choice since you have more experience in it and amongst experienced players (with multiple severe balance issues), where 5e has a lot better balance and difficulty curve, but doesn't support every character concept and lacks content.

Having played both options, I prefer 5e, I just wish it had more content for melee classes.

I'm actually pretty experienced with both rulesets, that isn't the issue I need to overcome. I'd feel confident DMing either, though as stated I prefer 3.5e basically for nostalgia. My real concern about 3.PF is somebody accidentally shooting themselves in the foot, or someone really liking the idea of playing a conjurer or a diviner, and the party--completely by accident--ending up at different power levels. Is there any way to circumvent this without shoehorning my players, such as via encouraging half casters, etc.?

[Knaight]

With new players I wouldn't worry too much about casters hitting the sort of ridiculous power levels they can hit when played by veterans with a good handle of optimization theory, you'll probably be fine. As for what to run, generally the big thing is to run something you're interested in. If you're really feeling like trying 5e, run 5e. If you want the familiarity of Pathfinder, run Pathfinder. You should probably just steer people away from the more ridiculously weak classes.

[Grod_The_Giant]

One concern with 3.5/PF is sheer volume of material; even if you're experienced enough to manage it, it can be overwhelming for newbies. I'd suggest 5e; it's pretty much the same experience and much more straightforward.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'd go with 3.5, though I'm more than a little biased on that, since you know it and want to run it. Your concern about caster supremacy will likely go unfounded unless your friends are the type to research stuff like this and stumble into a couple of handbooks. Even then, making wizards and clerics into Batman and CoDzilla takes more than a simple googling and cursory once-over of the guides.

Nudge the would-be melees toward Tome of Battle or Path of War if you have them and they should be fine. If not, well... I hope you know how to build an old-school melee if you're going past level 10 or so. Heck, send 'em to us in the 3.5 subforum.

[Florian]

Is there any way to circumvent this without shoehorning my players, such as via encouraging half casters, etc.?

Well, yes, there is: Open your mouth and talk. It´s no biggie, especially with a group of newbies, to simply state the fact that some classes can well overshadow the others and should be handled with care. Don't be afraid to announce beforehand that you will not on passively gm, but actively monitor things and step in when the power gap will get too disruptive. Your players will thank you for that.

Let me remind you about a very important thing from the PF DMG: When someone comes up with a vastly overpowered or game-breaking thing, allow it once and applaud the finding, allow it twice, smack down hard at the their and make it clear that you only allowed it because rule of cool and it doesn't have a place disrupting either the group or overall game play.

[Mutazoia]

With taking all the above advice as read, I would ask: What game system, if any, are your players familiar with?

If this is a first time foray into gaming for most, if not all of them, then stick with the system you know the best. It's more fun for everybody, and leads to a lot fewer in-game train wrecks, if the DM isn't having to stop play to double check a rule. New players won't have as much fun if the DM knows as much about the game system as they do. If you cut your teeth on 3.X, then run 3.X and just disallow anything that isn't "core" (PHB only classes, etc.).

If your group has some experience with gaming, then you can try stretching your legs a bit and give 5e a try. More experienced gamers will be willing to overlook a DM pausing to double check a rule in a new system, because they know it's new to everybody, and tend to have more patience.

That all being said, if this group is new to gaming, I would suggest something a little more "simple" than D&D for new players. Maybe the Open D6 ruleset (or Star Wars D6). When SWD6 first came out, my group at the time picked up the book, made characters, and were running games in about 15 minutes, with out ever seeing the rule set before. Now, granted, we were all "experienced" gamers, but a simple system (you have 5D in [skill], roll 5D6 and try to meet or beat [target number]) doesn't take much time to wrap your head around. Once everybody has the basic roll playing concept down, you can move on to more complex systems. (But not Rifts. Friends don't let friends play Rifts.)

[D+1]

Since you're familiar with 3.5 I'd suggest starting them off with a 3.5 E6 campaign. It will keep the game costs and the plethora of options under control for the players and allow you to re-familiarize yourself with things. If the campaign reaches 6th level and beyond you can poll the players to see if they want to continue with what you've done so far or buy some 5E materials and try that. Nothing says that your choice right now has to be the one and only choice for all time for all the players, but to get those new to the game hooked YOU want to feel more at ease running the game out of the gate for them, and yet want to keep things fairly direct and simple for them as well. I think E6 would do that for you.