Need help building a undead stronghold

[Gwyllgi]

Okay I need some ideas for building a fort for the undead. Ideas I've already thought up.
• sand to stone with black sand from sandstorm creating hewn stone with black sand properties.
• cursed decanter of befouled water, which produces befouled holy water endlessly. The DM stated that this is 27,000 gp and requires human sacrifice to make for balance.
• opening a two way keyed portal to the lower planes providing me with both trade and constantly changing evil weather patterns.

Any other stuff like this I can do, remember I'm undead so pretty much anything is a go, except flying cities, for trade reasons.

[mesc]

- You will want some spells around your stronghold like hallow or desecrate battlefield. If you can tweak and make spells permanent, spells like negative energy aura are nice. One of the most important spells would be mordenkainen's private sanctum, to block divination from clerics and other people who would crusade against undead.
- For location, it may be useful to build it in an area close to a mine with lots of black onyx.
- For other ideas, best you look at the stronghold builder book.

[zlefin]

do you already have a location for the fort? or is where you build it more flexible? imho one of the main advantages of an undead base is that it can be placed in areas that are very inhospitable to most life. (though admittedly the nature of the dnd world is to place beings of some sort everywhere, so places like the deep desert and frozen wastes tend to not be so empty)

[Mike Miller]

If you have access to the module Heart of Nightfang Spire, there is an undead tower with some interesting defenses. It has been a while since I looked at it so the details aren't coming to mind.

[Falontani]

If you have a dungeon Lord place orbs of sunlight into the walls as lights. Because black sand gives off perpetual magical darkness. A dungeon Lord can turn them off and on at will

[Kayblis]

I suggest the Stronghold Builder's Handbook, it's a great book for stronghold building. It has prices and guidelines to mostly anything you'd want, and very nice additions like spell-infused statues and traps as well as different kinds of living areas and spaces.

[Gwyllgi]

If you have access to the module Heart of Nightfang Spire, there is an undead tower with some interesting defenses. It has been a while since I looked at it so the details aren't coming to mind.


How would one even start to stat out the heart of ashardalon? It's abilities are well done though with no cheese and no way to abuse or use outside of a stronghold.

Also fits my character.

Are there any spells or powers that would help make this place gold? Or a way to turn the earth around it into a onyx mine?
What about monsters to possibly recruit? At the moment all I are dread warriors as a possibility. Wasn't there some way to mass produce the undead?

[Ruethgar]

The only way I know to make gems consistently are casting them as side effects(Drag Mag 302 or so?) but they are severely limited in value(2g iirc).

Psionics can make generic crystal, if it can be ruled as quartz and you get your hands on lots of sand(wall of stone/stone to sand) you might be able to try and make it? But that’s delving deep into DM fiat and murdering of cat girls.

With homebrew content there is Gramarie(mark 2 is most complete), an Advanced GEOC pole can let you grow gems slowly, but the investment to make it yourself is rather high, buying it wouldn’t be an issue, but keeping it fed without at least one gramarist/warlock level and a feat would be costly.

You mentioned portals to the lower planes so one to the plane of earth wouldn’t be out of the question. There is literally infinite onyx there, assuming you can find it.

Edit: just reread your last post and it reminded me, there are two versions of the Undead Leadership feat(one requires you be undead), presumably you could get both plus Leadership and Extra Followers to sextouple your followers.

Also for just making undead, not controlling them, there was a zombie plague in an obscure Drag Mag. It was the Blinding Sickness infecting water, if you died from it you got the Zombie template. Not as virulent as some Hollywood versions, but you could pretty easily poison a village or two of low level commoners if you just wanted a horde.

There is also of course the wightpocalypse, if you’re allowed to go that far, but even a Chain Fel Drain something on a group of peasants can make a fair few Wights.

[Goaty14]

Consider having "dead rooms" where you stuff oodles (read: as many as will fit) of mindless undead and giving them the command "attack anybody that enters the room" before removing them from your HD pool. Normally that'd kill you whenever you entered, but if you take the Lich-Loved (BoVD) feat, then they won't be able to detect you.

Might do some bad things to your allies, though.


The only way I know to make gems consistently are casting them as side effects(Drag Mag 302 or so?) but they are severely limited in value(2g iirc).

You could make them inconsistently by handing a commoner a Rod of Wonder. :smallsmile:

[Mike Miller]

How would one even start to stat out the heart of ashardalon? It's abilities are well done though with no cheese and no way to abuse or use outside of a stronghold.


Well, I looked into HoNS again and this is what I saw at a glimpse. The cylindrical core of the tower is where all the goodies are and it is "more" protected than the entire tower itself. The core is protected by a forbiddance effect, sealing it from planar travel into it including dimension door, teleport, plane shift, astral travel, ethereal travel, and summoning spells.

The exterior walls are solid stone, 4 feet thick (make it thicker if you want) reinforced with vertical iron rods spaced two feet apart. The core has another stone wall with a 6 inch thick iron wall set within it. Add a lead layer to that and you should be even better off.

[Gwyllgi]

Consider having "dead rooms" where you stuff oodles (read: as many as will fit) of mindless undead and giving them the command "attack anybody that enters the room" before removing them from your HD pool. Normally that'd kill you whenever you entered, but if you take the Lich-Loved (BoVD) feat, then they won't be able to detect you.

Might do some bad things to your allies, though.


They knew what they signed up for.

[Aldrakan]

They knew what they signed up for.

If you're not concerned about living allies, you might consider filling bits of the castle with poisonous gas. This could be a complex engineering endeavor or just having bad ventilation and building near low-grade volcanic activity depending on the effort and expense you want to put in.

[Falontani]

Permancied fell animate cloud kill would be a scary thing in this dungeon.

[Gwyllgi]

The only way I know to make gems consistently are casting them as side effects(Drag Mag 302 or so?) but they are severely limited in value(2g iirc).

Psionics can make generic crystal, if it can be ruled as quartz and you get your hands on lots of sand(wall of stone/stone to sand) you might be able to try and make it? But that’s delving deep into DM fiat and murdering of cat girls.

With homebrew content there is Gramarie(mark 2 is most complete), an Advanced GEOC pole can let you grow gems slowly, but the investment to make it yourself is rather high, buying it wouldn’t be an issue, but keeping it fed without at least one gramarist/warlock level and a feat would be costly.

You mentioned portals to the lower planes so one to the plane of earth wouldn’t be out of the question. There is literally infinite onyx there, assuming you can find it.

Edit: just reread your last post and it reminded me, there are two versions of the Undead Leadership feat(one requires you be undead), presumably you could get both plus Leadership and Extra Followers to sextouple your followers.

Also for just making undead, not controlling them, there was a zombie plague in an obscure Drag Mag. It was the Blinding Sickness infecting water, if you died from it you got the Zombie template. Not as virulent as some Hollywood versions, but you could pretty easily poison a village or two of low level commoners if you just wanted a horde.

There is also of course the wightpocalypse, if you’re allowed to go that far, but even a Chain Fel Drain something on a group of peasants can make a fair few Wights.

Is there a source on this 2 undead leadership thing?

[Darth Ultron]

Undead have no need for 'life support', and an undead stronghold should take full advantage of this.

*Air: Bad air, foul air, posionious air and even no air. This can be done lots of natural ways. Once you get indoors, and especially underground you can block air flow to make places of stale, depleted or no air. Making rooms near airtight, and then burning off the usable air is easy enough.

Plenty of magic works here as there are a ton of air related spells.

*Smoke: Undead are unaffected by the breathing effects of smoke, making it effective vs living folks.

*Heat: Will effect some undead, but not all. You can have plenty of spots that really crank up the heat. Places of extreme or severe heat, where the living will take damage just by breathing.

*Fire: you can have spots just full of fire. Plenty of undead are immune or uneffected.

*Cold: All undead are immune here, so add lots of cold.

*Water: Might be the best one. Water has no effect on undead, but sure has a huge effect on living characters.

*Necromancy: Undead are immune, of course.

Combining the above works great too...like Freezing Cold Water.

Tons of magic can do lots. Blood Snow and Cold Fire are just perfect for undead places.

[Gwyllgi]

If you're not concerned about living allies, you might consider filling bits of the castle with poisonous gas. This could be a complex engineering endeavor or just having bad ventilation and building near low-grade volcanic activity depending on the effort and expense you want to put in.

My plan is to scout around for contractors in the guise of a viscount we worked for in a nearby kingdom then dread warrior the best of them, I haven't decided yet if I'm going to do the same with the builders though.

[Goaty14]

*Water: Might be the best one. Water has no effect on undead, but sure has a huge effect on living characters.

Excluding the fact that if there is too much water, undead take penalties just like any other creature without FoM (IIRC there's some sort of to-hit penalty with melee underwater).

[PrismCat21]

Permancied fell animate cloud kill would be a scary thing in this dungeon.

Living Spell version. Semi-sentient. :D

[Draconi Redfir]

the moat, some rooms, or hidden pockets in the walls are just FILLED with feral, non-controlled skeletons. So if foolish adventurers mess up, they suddenly have a skeleton swarm on their hands.

[Doctor Awkward]

Shadesteel golems work exceptionally well as guards in an undead stronghold. Their Negative Pulse Wave ability does 12d6 points of damage to all creatures within 40 ft. as a free action every 1d4+1 rounds. This does double duty in damaging attackers and healing undead allies. In addition, they are hasted if they are ever exposed to a positive energy effect, such as the turning attempt of a good-aligned cleric (which hits all targets within 60 ft). It also has Shadow Blend, granting it concealment so long as it is not in an area of direct sunlight.

To add to the desecrate suggestion, I would recommend taking up the worship of a particularly obscure deity, and having one of your clerics cast an unhallow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/unhallow.htm) spell on several key locations within your base, and affix a silence spell to it and designate that it applies to anyone who does not share your faith. That way you and all your followers are immune to the effects, and anyone else who enters the area is subject to a continuous silence effect without a save. This prevents the casting of any spell that has verbal components, essentially nullifying enemy spellcasting within the area.

[Gwyllgi]

the moat, some rooms, or hidden pockets in the walls are just FILLED with feral, non-controlled skeletons. So if foolish adventurers mess up, they suddenly have a skeleton swarm on their hands.

I thought about something like this. Like. My plan was to use disguised simulacrum to do necro stuff and then swoop in to convince locals to use my front yard as a graveyard. Build little pungee pits lined with Blacksand stone and force any invading mobs to fight trench style, and possibly open them in their attempt to dig closer to my base. If I build a moat though I will abuse the crap out of this combined with despoil and the blacksand stone. I've also planning to ask the DM about making black sand and blacksand stone golems. The idea that Shadesteel golems are made from iron made with black sand has also crossed my mind because then it opens up half iron golem cheese but with the shadesteel.

[Gwyllgi]

Also could anyone think of a idea for a (Evil Weather) version Tornado's Eye?

[Yogibear41]

The only way I know to make gems consistently are casting them as side effects(Drag Mag 302 or so?) but they are severely limited in value(2g iirc).


Someone elaborate on this please.

[Gwyllgi]

Okay after a text It's been agreed to that the new object will be called a Vile Orb of Tornado. For it to function it requires at least 2 of the orbs. One orb is designated as the control orb and performs no other function other than the control of connected orbs. Every successive orb that is tied to it is considered to preform as a Tornado's Eye except as follows. once per day the control orb can be used to alter the chosen weather patterns of all connected orbs (spellcraft DC 15). He can select any evil weather pattern listed in the BoVD with tornado speed winds in addition to Snow, Sleet, or Hail treated as if enchanted by the effects of the blood snow spell and the exception of violet rain.

Every time a living creature is killed while the Vile Orb of Tornado is active it has a 1% chance of triggering Violet rain in addition to it's current weather pattern (2% +1 per HD for divine Spellcasters) with a cumulative effect. In Addition to the normal effects of violet rain, when caused by the Vile Orb of Tornado, violet rain has a chance to cause severe flooding as DMG chapter 3. This effect lasts until the Vile Orb of Tornado is resets and is capable of altering weather patterns again.

The kicker is that she decided it could only be made by tainting a Tornado's Eye with at least 15 HD worth of intelligent sacrifices with no less than a combined 50 in wis, int, and cha.

Which begs the question, is there a undead smart enough to know to use this to defend my stronghold when I'm go. I don't think Dread Warriors are smart enough.

[Falontani]

There are many undead intelligent enough to do what your wanting. Several of them can be created with normal means.

-Bone/Corpse Creatures which both have +0 int, meaning no change from when they were alive (BVD)

-Gravetouched Ghoul: with no way to create it by raw, but ghouls being a mere low level create undead option, see if your DM will go for it! +2 int, great options for advancing an undead cohort with this (LM)

-Necropolitan: Fairly obvious, +0, LM

-From the Monster Manual you have a slew of options: including Ghoul, Wight, Vampire, Vampire Spawn, and ghouls wights are easily created

Those are just the easily created ones.
Other ideas include: Bind a Loumora from FC1. Command it to possess a skeleton/zombie/what have you. Imprison Possessor. The Loumora will either ride or control the undead creature (which may get a save, but you can command controlled undead to forgo theirs) and while it is controlling the undead it is considered undead itself, meaning you can still command it via rebuke undead or just normal creation rules. Most of them are fairly smart! (This works with most fiends with fiendish possession rules detailed in BVD, redescribed in FC1, and changed again in ECS)
Commit a truly evil act by creating an Unholy Scion (my favored is creating a half vampire half daelkyr unholy scion). It is considered intelligent the moment that it is conceived, however you can wait however long you'd like. If you want a truly physically weak threat animate it immediately, however if you want something... akin to normal, then let it grow up until its the correct age and then turn it. Or better yet guide it to a class that will have it turn itself. Either way I highly suggest controlling it at some point.

All without considering the Incorporeal creatures that usually have a decent-good int

[Malphegor]

A few slaymates might be handy. Libris Mortis monster, it's basically an adorable child zombie (Created by the parent brutally ritually killing them! :smallsmile: )that acts as a metamagic reducer.

Why?

Because assuming your heroes are somewhere between Neutral to Good, nobody's going to feel happy about killing a 'innocent' monster child who's crying because you're there to kill their 'mommy'.

[Gwyllgi]

Does anyone know of any RAW for how to handle monsters (i.e. CR no LA) creatures and the leadership feats?

[DrMotives]

Does anyone know of any RAW for how to handle monsters (i.e. CR no LA) creatures and the leadership feats?

By RAW, you can't use those things with the leadership feat at all. Plenty of those things might seem reasonable to have as cohorts, but that is firmly in the territory of a DM judgement call.

[Gwyllgi]

By RAW, you can't use those things with the leadership feat at all. Plenty of those things might seem reasonable to have as cohorts, but that is firmly in the territory of a DM judgement call.

Does RAW state anything about awakened undead and leadership? Also what about pathfinder's Vile leadership, can anyone speak of any bad meshing with it and 3.0/.5? I kinda want to get it because it says plainly "as leadership feat and treated as such for the sake of other feats... etc" I think that one is a far more viable option for my playthrough especially since yet again I'm playing a character whose team doesn't know they're evil and am trying to hide that fact.

[Gwyllgi]

For future readers Frostburn is a necromancer's friend, especially for stronghold builders.

[Gwyllgi]

Furthermore upon researching I have discovered a unknown 3rd spoke to the mindless undead wheel, the blood hulk. The blood hulk works like a limited, though improved zombie, it's also one of the only undead that is explained comprehensively it's creation and costs. It counts as double its HD when made by animate dead, it also is mindless making it eligible for awaken undead. So while it's not a template it can be used vaguely as such. In addition if deployed in a fortress similar to my black sandstone tower, it gains 1d4 health each turn, balancing out its main weakness, cut and piercing damage. It upon being awakened would regain a lot of its skills and proficiencies and it's extraordinary abilities. In addition the Noble Bloodhulk can be made from anything that lives. Plants, oozes, dragons... this might deserve a thread on its own.

[Ruethgar]

Does anyone know of any RAW for how to handle monsters (i.e. CR no LA) creatures and the leadership feats?

https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x

The Libris Morris Undead Leadership has lesser requirements and you could presumably stack all three. If so, get the Extra Followers feat. If you are allowed to just use the web or LM rules on undead followers for normal leadership, that’s great. If not, Necropolitans have a clearly defined LA of 0 and can easily fill in for that third of your legion.

[Gwyllgi]

There was a undead wall monster. Does anyone remember what it was called?

[DrMotives]

There was a undead wall monster. Does anyone remember what it was called?

Living wall, lost empires maybe?

[Gwyllgi]

Living wall, lost empires maybe?

It was in dungeonscape as a unmarked monster. Dungeonscape itself appears to be a proto stronghold builder's guide in many respects.

[Jowgen]

Keep in mind that not all attackers will invariably be self righteous living heroes. Undead on undead violence is a real problem. Some Golems (e.g. the aforementioned shadesteel) mixed into your security will prevent any mook with Shirt of Wraithstalking (MIC) from sneaking past all your guards.

A Sacred Vessel (BoED) can get you unlimted holy water to pump into sprayers (A&E) you can set up to create a "purge" switch that'll melt all the undead in a given area. Mix in some jade to make it into the Jade water ravage (at a serious crafting cost discount thanks to having unlimited free holy water), which will decimate any undead incursion. Just keep that system under tight security so invaders don't start using it against you.

Beyond that, my addition to your defences is the use copious amounts of Shadow Slime on all your skeletons and other cold resistant/immune minions. See thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?575066-Slime-Thread-2-Rise-of-the-Shadow-Slime) for ideas.

[Segev]

Building in a frozen wasteland would take advantage of your cold immunity and make living adventurers deal with environmental effects.

Building over a volcano would let you vent poisonous gas all over your stronghold. Again, you're immune; the living are not.

Dress a bunch of skeletons up in fancy robes and jewels that look like your own ensemble, and have them walk around various areas of your keep which have dramatic overlooks. Program them to look down upon interlopers from afar, and rig up a few traps that can be mistaken for spell effects they might have cast. If they destroy one, they'll be all the more worried when they see another. And never know if they've seen YOU.

Skulking Cysts are great minions; Mother Cyst is a horrifying feat.

Flood your basement. With either frigid or near-boiling water. You don't need to breathe. Any living invaders who make it this far probably do. Again, you're also immune to cold. Less so to heat, so don't let it get damaging-hot if you go for boiling.

Have rooms filled with air that are only accessible from your flooded basement. They should be air-tight. Burn torches in there until they consume all the oxygen. These should be staging areas for your undead to lure your foes into fights over loot, as well as "reprieves" from the need to hold their breath. If they're using water-breathing magics, they may not realize until it's too late that those magics don't let them breathe air that's had all its oxygen removed.

Black sand is a great decorative item, though you'll want to be careful since its magical darkness isn't penetrated by your darkvision.