Why no love for Chill Touch

[sithlordnergal]

Whenever I see casters optimizing their cantrips, both on the forum and off, I regularly see spells like Firebolt, Eldritch Blast, Ray of Frost, Vicious Mockery, ect. And yet...I hardly ever see people talk about Chill Touch. Even I failed to see the potential of this spell when I was making a Paladin/Sorcerer and was hunting for some decent ranged cantrips.

And yet, after I used Chill Touch I realized just how nice of a gem it is. 120 foot range is equal to Firebolt and Eldritch Blast, d8 Necrotic may not be the best damage, but its still decent. Then there are the riders. First up is the fact that it shuts down all of a targets healing, be it from skills, regeneration, or magic, which shuts down things like Trolls, Vampires, or big bads with hp regen as one of their main abilities.

Then there's the second rider, undead hit by the spell suffer disadvantage on all attacks targeting you. Its like a vicious mockery, but better. Hell, the cantrip completely shuts down Vampires. And best of all, its effects are not concentration, they last a full round.

So if the cantrip is that good...why do you think people hardly ever take it? Is it just lost under the large number of other cantrips?

[Dungeon-noob]

The reason i think it's not that common, is that like you yourself pointed out, the riders are situational. Unless your opponent has regen, the first rider is wasted. If your opponent isn't undead, same for the second. And at that point, most other cantrips are just better, either firebolt or toll the dead for damage, frostbite or ray of frost for similar damage but with riders. So while it's good when it works, when building in a vacuum, it's worse then most cantrips, since uncertainty is a serious downside in strategic systems, like theorycrafting.

[pdegan2814]

The healing prevention - potentially useful, yes. But definitely situational. You mentioned trolls & vampires. Fire or acid damage will also block a troll's regeneration, and vampires have resistance to necrotic damage. Many powerful undead do, and many others are immune to it completely. Many folks prefer to counter regeneration by making sure the party's damage can outpace it.
Undead disadvantage - see above re: resistance/immunity. Nerfing their attacks against you for a round is nice, but they're only nerfed against you, and you're attacking from range. If you've got melee folks up close with them, they can still get attacked normally.

I know as a Warlock I never take Chill Touch. The only thing Eldritch Blast can't damage is a Helmed Horror, and they're immune to necrotic damage :)

[ImproperJustice]

My current Sorceror uses it all the time.
Used it recently to help manage a battle against a hydra.

[Dr. Cliché]

Well, for a start, which class are you thinking of taking Chill Touch on?

- Warlocks have a far better cantrip in the form of Eldritch Blase.
- Bards can't take it outside of Magical Secrets. And if you're using Magical Secrets to learn a damage Cantrip, why not just go the whole hog and learn Eldritch Blast?
- Wizards can take it but if they want Necrotic damage then they're probably better off with Toll the Dead (which lacks the riders but will usually do about 50% more damage).
- Sorcerers can take it but if they're dragon sorcerers then they'll probably want to focus on a different element. Moreover, given how few spells they know, they generally can't afford to take stuff with situational effects.

It's not that you can't take it with these classes, it's just that there tend to be better options.

[KorvinStarmast]

So if the cantrip is that good...why do you think people hardly ever take it? Is it just lost under the large number of other cantrips? Our EK took it as soon as he reached third level. Not sure what you mean by "why do you think people hardly ever take it?"

[Slayn82]

I've picked Chill Touch for my Paladin Conqueror/Hexblade. Because we play under PHB + 1, I can't get EB + GFB.

Since my principal method of attack is Melee, having a good utility on the backup ranged attack is nice, and many things that would have resistance to fear are undead. And know what is nice along Chill Touch against Undead? Compelled Duel.

[Dalebert]

If I have a decent choice of cantrips, I like having it in my repertoire. Necrotic dmg isn't resisted much except by undead. It's a nice combo with Firebolt for ranged cantrips because few creatures resist both and they both have 120 ft range. Firebolt is a popular choice against undead but Chill Touch is preferred in some cases despite doing no dmg. A vampire regenerates 20 on its turn so if no one else is likely to do radiant, you're better off with a zero dmg Chill Touch than a firebolt. If I have Chill Touch and I'm facing a creature I'm unfamiliar with (but not clearly undead), it's my likely choice because not much resists it. That said, force is still the best dmg type when it's an option.

The three niches I'm often trying to fill with attack cantrips are having a couple different types of dmg types and having something that I can use in melee. The latter can be either a save-based cantrip or Shocking Grasp.

[sithlordnergal]

Our EK took it as soon as he reached third level. Not sure what you mean by "why do you think people hardly ever take it?"

Well, I mean that I generally never see it get used or talked about, both online and during play

[Zuras]

Not sure why you’re not seeing the love in your local play groups, but it’s popular in my circles. Necrotic is rarely resisted and preventing regeneration is a key ability for casters. I never see warlocks take it, but Wizards, Sorcerers and Eldritch Knights take it all the time.

If anything has hurt its popularity, it’s probably competition from Toll the Dead and the lure of those d12s.

[Jerrykhor]

Because the spell is a scam. With other spell names such as 'Delayed Blast Fireball' that pretty much has the spell description in the name, Chill Touch is grossly misleading. It is neither Chill (not cold damage) nor a Touch spell.

Also, it sounds like it would be great against undead, but they are usually resistant or immune to necrotic damage.

It also sounds great against monsters that can heal or regenerate, but I'll let you in on a secret: Just deal more damage than they can heal, and the net result is better than dealing resisted damage.

[MinMaxMunchking]

Good question. I actually prefer Chill Touch over Firebolt myself. Necrotic damage is less resisted damage type overall, and the d8 vs d10 dice is only 1 less damage on average. When I played Sorcadin, I picked Chill Touch over Firebolt and didn't regret it a second.

That said, if you're playing Warlock, Eldritch Blast is the only thing you need because invocations and force damage.

[Potato_Priest]

I do usually take it as my main damage cantrip, but I don't go raving about it. It's a good cantrip for the reasons that you mentioned, but the reason that it doesn't get a lot of love from optimizers is that all of its special abilities depend on the enemy rather than on you. Ray of Frost, Firebolt, eldrich blast and the SKAG cantrips all have much more predictable ways for players to use them (flasks of oil for firebolt, kiting for ray of frost, tons of stuff for eldrich blast, and melee specialization for the SKAG cantrips), and so while chill touch is absolutely a good cantrip to have, its a worse cantrip to design a character around.

[JNAProductions]

A tarrasque with a bard or cleric friend could regain 675 hit points in a round.

The tarrasque has no friends.

More importantly, though, some monsters DON'T DIE if they regen. And if you don't know/don't have access to what kills them...

Chill Touch works.

[Chronos]

Did they errata the Tarrasque into having regeneration? The stat block I saw didn't have any. Which had to have been a mistake, but...

[Sigreid]

Of the 3 primary arcane casters I've played, 2 wizards and a sorcerer, 2 have taken chill touch. As for why it's not taken more often in your experience? I suppose it has to do with the limited number of cantrips people have access to. You just don't get that many and I would assume most people want to spend most of their cantrips on things other than damage.

[PeteNutButter]

I agree the spell is undervalued. Necrotic is fairly commonly resisted, but usually only on undead which triggers that second rider.

I'll also agree that it is very poorly named. It goes on my least of poorly named 5e items, along with sneak attack (which requires no sneaking) and dodge (which makes no sense when the 6 dex fighter in plate does it; should just be full defense).

[MaxWilson]

Whenever I see casters optimizing their cantrips, both on the forum and off, I regularly see spells like Firebolt, Eldritch Blast, Ray of Frost, Vicious Mockery, ect. And yet...I hardly ever see people talk about Chill Touch.*snip*

So if the cantrip is that good...why do you think people hardly ever take it? Is it just lost under the large number of other cantrips?

There's a distinction between not talking about something and not taking it. I've seen it taken plenty and used a fair bit. It's a pretty nice cantrip with good range and a good damage type, and a fair number of niche uses against vampires, trolls, etc. Damage is marginally lower than Fire Bolt but not so much that you'd regret using it.

It's one of several pretty good wizard attack cantrips.


I do usually take it as my main damage cantrip, but I don't go raving about it. It's a good cantrip for the reasons that you mentioned, but the reason that it doesn't get a lot of love from optimizers is that all of its special abilities depend on the enemy rather than on you. Ray of Frost, Firebolt, eldrich blast and the SKAG cantrips all have much more predictable ways for players to use them (flasks of oil for firebolt, kiting for ray of frost, tons of stuff for eldrich blast, and melee specialization for the SKAG cantrips), and so while chill touch is absolutely a good cantrip to have, its a worse cantrip to design a character around.

Nicely phrased.


Did they errata the Tarrasque into having regeneration? The stat block I saw didn't have any. Which had to have been a mistake, but...

No they didn't, but you could just lop off 180 HP and give it 60 HP of regen per round and it wouldn't change the CR any, per DMG rules. Might as well make it more mobile at the same time.

Armor Class 25 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points 496
Speed 60 ft., swim 40 ft., burrow 30 ft.

The Tarrasque regenerates 60 HP at the start of its turn and never dies. No known effect can prevent this regeneration, although some legends state that a Wish could suppress it temporarily, theoretically allowing the beast to be slain, but this has never been tested. One prophecy says the opposite: that the beast cannot be defeated by arcane arts, no matter how mighty, but that the key to its defeat lies within the heart of a man who has never known love and a woman who has never known fear and a child who has never known doubt.

[JNAProductions]

If we're talking Tarrasque, I made a revised version (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?542991-Big-T-Revised) a while back. I didn't give it regen per say, but I did give it a bonus action to restore HP usable at-will.

[8wGremlin]

It’s an excellent cantrip. Especially on arcane domain clerics.

[Treantmonk]

Whenever I see casters optimizing their cantrips, both on the forum and off, I regularly see spells like Firebolt, Eldritch Blast, Ray of Frost, Vicious Mockery, ect. And yet...I hardly ever see people talk about Chill Touch. Even I failed to see the potential of this spell when I was making a Paladin/Sorcerer and was hunting for some decent ranged cantrips.

And yet, after I used Chill Touch I realized just how nice of a gem it is. 120 foot range is equal to Firebolt and Eldritch Blast, d8 Necrotic may not be the best damage, but its still decent. Then there are the riders. First up is the fact that it shuts down all of a targets healing, be it from skills, regeneration, or magic, which shuts down things like Trolls, Vampires, or big bads with hp regen as one of their main abilities.

Then there's the second rider, undead hit by the spell suffer disadvantage on all attacks targeting you. Its like a vicious mockery, but better. Hell, the cantrip completely shuts down Vampires. And best of all, its effects are not concentration, they last a full round.

So if the cantrip is that good...why do you think people hardly ever take it? Is it just lost under the large number of other cantrips?

The 2 classes that are likely to consider Chill Touch are Sorcerers and Wizards. In each case, they may also want a second attack cantrip that does not require an attack roll (for cases where they might suffer disadvantage on an attack roll or an enemy has a strong AC). That second cantrip is likely to be Toll the Dead.

Because Toll the Dead is doing Necrotic damage, it makes sense to take a different damage type for the other attack cantrip, making Fire and Cold both more attractive options.

However, Chill Touch/Frostbite is a decent combo too.