[5E] Alternative skill system

[Plaindog]

Hi all. After 30 sessions playing 5E I wanted to do something more with the skill system. I miss giving my players options to become specialized in certain skill areas, but I still want to keep it simplistic. So a friend of mine and me sat down smacking our heads together to figure things out. Here is what we have come up with. I hope to get some more insight on our idea on the subject. Thank you

SKILLS
In the core rules, a character is either proficient or not proficient in a skill category like Acrobatics, Nature, History etc. The core system does not allow a player to expand and become good in skills like Pick Locks or Tracking. This skill system makes it possible to specialize in subskills from level 2, but still retain the simplicity of the original system.

You cannot receive improved ranks at level 1 except in your native language.

When choosing a class, a player can choose a certain number of proficient skills. Choose these as normal. At level 1 you are now Proficient in the skills you choose as per the default rules.

Skill Progression
Proficient (stat bonus + proficiency)
Rank 1 (stat bonus + proficiency) +1
Rank 2 (stat bonus + proficiency) +2
Rank 3 (stat bonus + proficiency) +3
Rank 4 (stat bonus + proficiency) +4
Rank 5 (stat bonus + proficiency) +5

Gaining skill points
At level 2, 6, 8, 10, 14 and 18 you will receive 2 skill points. These skills points can be used to further create and rank up subskills within the default skill categories like acrobatics, athletics, nature etc. Skill points cannot be spent on subskills.

Creating a subskill
The skills you create are defined by you and the DM. If you want to be good at Juggling, you create a subskill below Acrobatics with Dex as the skill modifier. If you want to learn to ride a dragon that might be a subskill for Animal Handling with Wis as a modifier, or maybe you want to specialize in picking locks. In that case it will be a subskill for Sleight of Hands with Dex as a modifier.

Becoming an expert
You can choose to spend one Ability Score Improvement to become an expert in a subskill. This doubles the effect of the skill ranks for that skill (+2 instead of +1, +4 instead of +2, etc.). You must be proficient in the category and rank 1 in the skill before specializing. You can only become expert once in a skill.

EXAMPLE
Here is the breakdown on a Human Druid who want to be expert in Weather Watching. Lets say his Int score is 15 which gives him a +2. + Race bonus +1 Int. He chooses proficiency in Nature and Animal Handling

Level 1 - Stats +3 , Prof +2 = +5 in Nature

Level 2 - Stats +3, Prof +2. He puts 2 ranks in Weather watching = +7 in weather watching

Level 3 - No change in weather watching

Level 4 - He drops ability increase or feat to become expert in Weather watching. Doubling his rank bonus to +4

Level 5 - Stats +3, prof +3, Expert Rank +4 = +10 in Weather watching

Level 6 - Stats +3, prof +3, he puts 2 more ranks in weather watching now +8 with expert = +14 in weather watching

Level 7 - Stats +3, prof +3, Expert +8 = +14 weather watching

Level 8 - Stats +3, prof +3, he maxes rank to +5 in weather watching which gives +10 weather watching = +16 total

This isn't too overpowered considering he is giving up 1 ability increase or a feat :)

https://i.imgur.com/R5UAgIx.png

[Unoriginal]

Picking locks is an ability check with thieves' tools proficiency, just so you know.

As for your rules, they are neither simplistic nor retain the simplicity of the system.

Also the core rules do allow you to become proficient in more skills (though becoming proficient in languages and tools is easier).

[Plaindog]

After running this thing through Excel from level 1-20 on a couple of classes I have decided to tweak it since the example above would give the player a very high score. In this example the Ranks are capped at +3. This will at least give the players possibilities to become better in some skills they want. It's also a bit more streamlined

SKILLS
In the core rules, a character is either proficient or not proficient in a skill category like Acrobatics, Nature, History etc. The core system does not allow a player to expand and become good in skills like Pick Locks or Tracking. This skill system makes it possible to specialize in subskills from level 2, but still retain the simplicity of the original system.

Proficiency and skill points
When you first choose a class and a race, you get a certain number of Skills you are proficient with. These work as normal. That means you are proficient in the skill categories i.e. Athletics, Nature, Religion, Perception etc. At 2nd level you start earning skill points. These are used to create subclasses below the default skill categories. You can also use skill points to improve languages.

Skill Progression
Proficient (stat bonus + proficiency)

Rank 1 (stat bonus + proficiency) +1
Rank 2 (stat bonus + proficiency) +2
Rank 3 (stat bonus + proficiency) +3

Gaining and using skill points
At level 2, 6, 8, 10, 14 and 18 you will receive 2 skill points. These skill points can be used to create subskills in the different categories. You cannot spend skill points on the default skill categories like Perception, Nature and Stealth. Skill points can only be used on subskills.

Creating a Subskill
You can choose to use skill points to create subskills and specialize in them. You and the DM decide which subskills are available, e.g. a School in Arcana, Ride Horse in Animal handling, Waterdeep History, Tightrope Walking in Acrobatics, Picking Locks in Sleight of Hands etc. Specializing in a subskill reward the player with a +1, +2, +3 etc. based on the skill points invested by players. You must be Proficient in the category in which you are specializing.

E.g., a rogue with proficiency in Sleight of hand decides to specialize on pick pocketing and picking locks on level 2. She asks the DM if she will be allowed to create the subskill Pick Pocket and Pick Lock as a part of the Sleight of Hands category. The DM agrees, and the rogue now can calculate these two skills with a +1 bonus + Proficiency bonus + Dexterity bonus.

[strangebloke]

The skills system could probably use an overhaul, but the system you propose is extremely problematic.

First of all it's complicated but doesn't create character options, beyond allowing for a jack of all trades build.

You talk about not being able to get skills as you level, but there's already the skilled feat and prodigy and others.

Then there's the subskill system, which feels a bit too much like it covers things that should be automatic like climbing or tightrope walking.

[qube]

my 2 cents for what it's worth - I dislike any change that is a straight power-up (unless it's a fix for something underpowered -- which in this situation isn't the case).

It seems it would be much simpler to
at lvl 1, you take skills as normal (ex. suppose the character, amongst others, takes proficiency in athletics; beaing his mod becomes STR +2 )
when your proficiency mod increases (ex. from +2 to +3), the player can chose to instead take a boost in a subskill
instead of the normal, have athletics: STR + 3 (as per normal with a +3 proficiency modifier)
he could opt
athletics: STR +2 (+2 if jump)
likewise,
skills received at latter stages can easily retroactively be calculated (by either working the old way, or have specilized paths if apllicable)
expertise (at lvl 1 or higher level) simply calculates the option twice. A Expert in Athletics can go from STR +4 to
athletics (STR +6)
athletics (STR +5) (+2 if jump)
athletics (STR +4) (+4 if jump)
athletics (STR +4) (+2 if jump, +2 if climb) < theoretically possible, but mathematically stupid, as it gives up "all athletics +6" for "jump +6, climb +6, grapple +4" >

if you institute a cap, you could even let skills transfer
a character with perception WIS+2, athletics STR +2, could transfer the increase he gets in perception to anothr subskill:
perception WIS+2, athletics STR +2 (+2 jump, +2 climb)

[ChangeSumFlux]

You can always go back and mimic 2nd edition, I always liked that skill system. I forget exactly how it works but here is the general idea.
You have all the different skills with zero points modifier, you get something like a few points + intelligence modifier points per level and can only have a maximum of lvl* a number.
2nd edition used decimals, so it was something like
1.5 + int per level points to distribute as you wish
Max of 1.25* level in a skill, so a lvl 5 could have a maximum of 5*1.25=6(round down).
This allows for specializing in a particular skill, or spreading it out.
I probably have the numbers wrong but you could look them up. It really is simple once you understand it, but it might seem complicated at first.
Another bonus is that is adds to intelligence being useful (what I view as being one of the ‘mechanically’ weakest stat).

[spinningdice]

For an actual fix that doesn't increase power level, it may be worth just ignoring proficiency bonus, adding up the points of proficiency you would have and allowing distribution of them as individual points?


Going off memory in 2nd ed (which I last played about 18 months or so ago) you have a number of skill proficiencies equal to your intelligence modifier (actually it was your bonus languages modifier as this was an option system and there were no catch all stat modifiers).

You then gained bonus proficiencies according to a chart every few levels, expressed in a way where you had to read it carefully each time to check (i.e. 3 points per 4 levels, but was it every 4th level you gain, or every 4th level as it was different in 1e and 2e?).

Each skill had a different cost in number of proficiency slots to buy into the skill, so while cartography may cost 1, juggling costs 2. These costs are doubled if they are not on the general or class list.

Your first proficiency spent gave you access to the skill as an individual modifier for each skill so Juggling might be Dex -2 at your first point. You can then spend further proficiencies to increase the bonus by 1.

You then roll on the skills by rolling under the skill value (each proficiency had it's own effects, some of which didn't even require a roll).