Need help choosing between either a Two-Weapon Fighter or Two-Handed Weapon

[Niriel]

So I am going to be starting a new pathfinder campaign with some friends and need help in choosing a fighter type. I want to either use Two-Weapon Fighting, or use a Two-Handed Weapon, but am not sure which to pick, or which feats to pick. Due to the campaign setting I have to play a Half-Elf and when rolling her stats I managed to get 18, 17, 16, 16, 14, 12, I am thinking of adding my +2 from race to the STR or Dex giving one of the stats a 20. Also the GM has limited the classes to Base Classes with no archtypes allowed. I have never played a fighter before, so I wanted to step out of my comfort zone and give it a try. What are your opinions? And what feats should I pick up? And thank you for any help you can provide.

[Florian]

Sword and Board TWF is quite powerful, especially with those stats.

[ericgrau]

Either will work in Pathfinder, but I'd do TWF to be different and interesting. THF is much more common and popular, especially from former players of 3.5. IIRC multiclassing into paladin or straight paladin works well with TWF, but you can do straight fighter too.

The base damage will be just a hair lower than THF but the trick then to exceed THF is to look for bonus damage per hit like smite and/or weapon specialization and/or effects per hit like tripping and/or drow poison. Trip weapons include flail+sickle, or dual sickles if you're looking for weapon spec bonuses. Guisarme+armor spike THF+TWF is another option, but then the armor spikes don't trip and you can't weapon spec well. IIRC PF added other decent special attacks besides tripping, but I don't remember them well. Or SaB TWF like Florian said.

Anyway before I say more pick your flavor. Whether THF or TWF, and what kind you prefer. There are a lot of viable options.

[Niriel]

The base damage will be just a hair lower than THF but the trick then to exceed THF is to look for bonus damage per hit like smite and/or weapon specialization and/or effects per hit like tripping and/or drow poison. Trip weapons include flail+sickle, or dual sickles if you're looking for weapon spec bonuses. Guisarme+armor spike THF+TWF is another option, but then the armor spikes don't trip and you can't weapon spec well. Or SaB like Florian said.

Anyway before I say more pick your flavor. Whether THF or TWF, and what kind you prefer. There are a lot of viable options.

I was considering getting tripping, after reading over it and knowing my GM it could be very useful. So I think I will go with TWF. And thank you for mentioning the Sickles, I was not thinking of dual wielding those, but that does sound fun. I know I should probably pick up Weapon Finesse, and Two-Weapon Fighting branch, but after those what should I look into? Feats for Tripping? Or anything that would be standard for a TWF?

[ericgrau]

You have good stats, I wouldn't weapon finesse. With str you do more damage per hit and with the right armor your AC will be about as high. You can afford to have the min pre-req dex for ITWF, 17, then focus on str (18+2+pump more later) and con (16). You can always use a +2 dex item to qualify for GTWF later.

I know enough from playing PF a while back to know that the things I said previously are good and ported over well enough from 3.5. Plus dual spell storing weapons later (e.g., with empowered magic missiles, vampiric touch or another good spell with the "Target: ___" line). Enough mobility (jumping, barbarian dip, boots of striding and springing or boots of speed, party caster with haste, etc.), and defense (AC, con, etc.) to get in the middle of your foes ASAP to full attack prone bomb them all is also good. Besides begging for haste and buffs in general, you might pay for lesser rod of extend spell(s) to help encourage the party caster to GMW you. You can also beg him to tell his familiar to hold the charge on an enlarge person/bull's strength/etc. and hand the familiar to you to carry. That way the familiar can pop you with the spell right before the mage takes his turn, no buff round needed. If it's a cleric buffing it's not really worth the round to buff, so what you can do instead is buy him a couple scrolls for the rare pre-combat buffing round. At least at first; starting level 5 he may want to mass buff instead of scroll buff, even if there is a buffing round. Prayer is good and IIRC PF added a couple more good cleric mass buffs. Beyond that I'd have to do some PFSRD digging and/or other people may have to chime in.

What's your starting level?

[Niriel]

What's your starting level?

...1st... Lol

[Geddy2112]

Another twf option is to critfish using a pair of light weapons like kukris, with keen or improved critical you end up with a 15-20 crit range and with full bab, weapon training and good stats a 15 will always hit, threatening a crit. Another advantage of matched weapons is for feats like weapon focus, weapon specialization etc.

I second going strength over dexterity with those stats. You can wear heavy armor and with armor training you will eventually get your full dex to AC. You can use a stat advance to get to 18 dex, then 19 for greater twf. Strength is less feat intensive and does more damage than Dexterity over the course of the game.

For stats, I would go 18 str(20 with racial +2), 17 dex 16 con 14 int 16 wis 12 cha. For feats, two weapon fighting and weapon focus are good for first level. You want weapon specialization at 4th, ITWF at 6, greater weapon focus at 8, critical focus at 9, GTWF at 11, greater specialization at 12. Outside of those, feats are fairly open. You probably want double slice at some point, and maybe two weapon rend. Improved initiative is never bad, disruptive+spell breaker is solid, combat reflexes with high dex is worth a look, penetrating strike is a must at higher levels.

[ericgrau]

Half-elf: Ancestral arms ART for dire flail proficiency in place of skill focus could be nice. It's a cool looking tripping weapon. Besides +1 average damage on full attacks, you'll get an additional +3 damage or more (+4 total) on single attacks because you can also THF it. At rare times you may use the +2 to disarm if you're not afraid of an attack of opportunity from the target (low attack bonus for example). An AoO hit makes the disarm fail. Don't forget you can disarm objects such as holy symbols, spell component pouches, potions and plot macguffins. It's not worth the improved disarm feat unless you're in a humanoid heavy campaign, hence I say rarely when it's easy.

Half-elf also lets you dual class easily and still get favored class bonuses for both classes. You might dip barbarian 1 for the rage. For good rage powers I see auspicious mark (Ultimate Combat) for +1d6 to 1 roll, elemental rage (barbarian 4, APG) for +1d6 elemental damage to all hits for 1 round (great with a full attack), world serpent totem unit (barbarian 6, Ultimate Combat) for +10' speed. If you can't find anything else there are many defensive powers to help you stay in the center of a pile of enemies.

Feats: You'll want TWF, combat expertise (int 13), improved trip and then greater trip (BAB +6) ASAP. Weapon focus and weapon spec also help unless you can find better splatbook feats. So you'll probably want to start with fighter 2 to get your main 3 right away, then dip barbarian for at least 1 level if not 2-4. Then alternate as needed, probably sticking with fighter once you get the early rage powers you want. After that feats get more complicated and some veteran PF players might help you more than me. Fighter 2 / paladin X is another possible direction too. Pile on the TWF smites and get better nice saves. Str > cha > con, dex 17.

Traits: Dirty fighter (+1 dmg when flanking), reactionary (+2 initiative), rich parents (if you're really scared of level 1). If nothing else boost a save or grab a class skill. If crit fishing I saw 1-2 related traits in the APG. I only checked that book btw. There could be many more traits if you have the books.

Gear: 2 sickles (or a dire flail) and the best medium armor you can afford, eventually switching to breastplate and MW sickles. Also consider hunting down drow poison on the black market around levels 5-10. Apply to spare regular and eventually MW sickles too. Around levels 2-6 TWF alchemical item tossing is sometimes handy, for example against swarms. Sometimes oil too. At some point pick up a potion or 3 of enlarge person and/or maybe protection from evil for the rare buff rounds. Even if you have caster buddies 2 buffs is better than 1, and level 1 potions are cheap. At high level find an NPC to make you spell storing weapon(s) or upgrade what you found with it. You can put enchantments on both sides of a dire flail if you have one. A hammer and many pitons are nice for wedging the bottoms of doors to hold them shut, climbing walls and blocking trap holes. Get a rope and grappling hook perhaps, or make sure an ally has them. Other necessities like food. Also consider a forum or Google search for basic cheap gear. There are lots of cool obscure items out there depending on what's allowed.

That should at least get you through the first few levels and hopefully others will chime in with higher level feats and other ideas. Geddy2112's suggestions look nice.

[Florian]

Hm. The real question is actually how far this campaign should go, which gives a hint how deep we can plan this. In addition, what material is available.

Basically, one of the core component nowadays is using Barroom Brawler and adding Advanced Training/Multi Tactics to it do give it more daily uses.

In the long run, combining the TWF line with the Shield Bash/Shield Master/Bashing Finish line and a decent high-crit weapon like Kukri or Scimitar is maybe the highest DPS route you can go on a Fighter.

If you're into the long run and Evil is an option, a base of Fighter (Weapon Master - Longsword) 3/Barbarian (Dreadnaught) 6/Sanguine Angel 1+ is the way to go.

[Powerdork]

Fighter (Weapon Master - Longsword) 3/Barbarian (Dreadnaught) 6/Sanguine Angel 1+ is the way to go.

Are those archetypes, thus banned? Or class options?

[Florian]

Are those archetypes, thus banned? Or class options?

Archetypes, to explain something. The same combo will work based on base Fighter 5/Barbarian 6/Sanguine Angel 1+ actually better but two levels delayed. I was just to lazy to explain the whole background here.

[Particle_Man]

Does your dm use fumble rules? If so what are they? If punitive I would go for the two handed weapon. The extra attacks from two weapon fighting often get lost on many fumble tables.

[Psyren]

No archetypes allowed, but what about the other goodies Fighter got over the years? Advanced Weapon and Armor Training? Stamina rules? Item Mastery? Or are you stuck with core-only fighter?