View Full Version : Campaign with class fixes
Our DM decided to apply some fixes to classes to make things more balanced. Do you think these fixes are fair? and if there are any suggestions I can give to my DM about them.
Right now, I'm assigned with the role of melee front lining, and looking at the fixes I became interested in the 2 criticized classes, the monk and swashbuckler. I feel like monk can now do its melee role a lot better and have useful side abilities that can be used often. Swashbuckler seems interesting as it can make a build based on the dodge feats like elusive target, deceptive dodge or word given form (if I can meet the prerequisites) possible.
We start at lv 12, so what class do you think would do best as a melee front liner, monk or swashbuckler or some other class?
Here are the fixes
All classes:
- your HP per hit dice is maximized
Martial classes get
- +4 skill points per level
- +1 bonus to two ability scores, for every 4 levels of that martial class. (This is in addition to the normal ability score improvements)
Half Casters (classes which do not get 9th level casting) get
- CL is treated as full instead of only half the class level
- 1 bonus spell slot per spell level, and 1 bonus spell known per spell level, if applicable
- +2 skill points per level
- a +1 bonus to one ability score, for every 4 levels of that half caster class. (This is in addition to the normal ability score improvements)
Martial adepts and invocation users get
- +2 skill points per level
- a +1 bonus to one ability score, for every 4 levels of that class. (This is in addition to the normal ability score improvements)
Magic Items:
- Prices of magic weapon = bonus squared x 1,000 gp
- Magic armor enhancement bonus also grants DR/-
- Potion and wands have no spell level limits now
- Prices of Potions = Spell level x CL x 25 gp
Healing spells
- Cure moderate wounds instead heals 3d8 + CL
- Cure Serious wounds instead heals 5d8 + CL
- Cure Critical wounds instead heals 7d8 + CL
- Heal instead now only heals 8/ CL, and choose 1 point of ability damage/ CL or 1 other adverse condition.
Barbarian
- Add spot and sense motive to class skills
- The bonus to strength and constitution of your rage ability instead increases by 1 at 2nd level and at every 2 levels after
Fighter
- Add balance, tumble, spot and listen to class skills
- At 3rd, 7th, 11th and 15th and 19th level, a fighter gains replaceable feats (Ex). As a swift action, you can change one replaceable feat to another fighter feat that you qualify for. These feats do not count for prerequisites for prestige classes or feats.
- Feats that require fighter levels have their level requirements halved.
- The feat Weapon specialization and greater instead adds 1d8 to the damage roll.
Monk
- BAB is full now
- Slow fall is now feather fall at will.
- At 5th level, when using flurry of blows or decisive strike, you can move up to a total of your fast movement bonus. You can freely use this movement before and after each attack.
- Wholeness of body can heal a number of damage equal to 4 x your monk level.
- At 8th level, a monk can walk on air (Su), as the air walk spell. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to your wisdom modifier. CL = monk level
- Abundant step gained at 10th level and can be used a number of times per day equal to your constitution modifier. CL = monk level
- Diamond Soul spell resistance equals to 13 + monk level.
- Quivering palm can be used once per day. You can gain an additional use of quivering palm as free action, by expending 4 uses of stunning fist.
- Empty body gained at 18th level and lasts for a number of minutes equal to your monk level + wisdom modifier
Paladin
- add jump to class skills
- Smite deals an additional 2 damage per paladin level instead, and you gain one extra use of smite evil at 3rd level, and for every 2 levels after.
- At 8th level, You can now smite non evil creatures, but if you smite evil creatures, the damage bonus becomes +3 per paladin level + cha mod
- Lay on hands becomes heal a number of damage equal to 5 x your paladin level, this can be used a number of times per day equal to your charisma modifier.
- Your spell casting ability score is now charisma
- Your special mount can be called a number of times per day equal to half your paladin levels.
- Starting at 6th level, you can cast spells despite having your hands full.
- Prestige classes which advance caster level, also advances your level for the smite ability.
Rogue
- You can now sneak attack creatures with concealment
- Gain ranger combat styles and its progression
- At 6th, 12th and 18th level, select one creature type immune to critical hits except elementals and ooze. You can now make critical hits against them.
Ranger
- The bonus damage is instead +4 and increases by another 4 whenever you get an additional favored enemy. In addition Favored enemies take a -2 penalty to saves from your ranger spells, which increases by 1 whenever you get an additional favored enemy.
- You instead gain an additional favored enemy at 4th level and every 4 levels after.
- For Animal companion, effective druid level = ranger level
Healer
- BAB is now 3/4
- You instead add your class level to the amount of damage healed by your healing hands ability
- You gain a shared pool of uses for your Cleanse abilities, which can be used to activate any cleanse ability
- Your Unicorn companion gains the benefit of your healing hands ability
- Your spell casting ability score is now completely charisma based
- Prestige classes which advance caster level, also advances your level for the healing hands and cleanse ability
Marshal
- You can use maneuvers and stances following warblade, but the only discipline known to you is white raven.
- Your major aura bonus is instead increased by 1 every 3 levels after 2nd level.
- Starting at 3rd level, you can use command as a supernatural ability. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your marshal level
- Starting 6th level, you can use geas, lesser as a supernatural ability. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1/2 your marshal level
- Starting at 9th level you can use dominate person as a supernatural ability. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1/3 your marshal level
- Starting at 12th level, you can use command greater as a supernatural ability. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1/4 your marshal level
- Starting at 15th level, you can use geas as supernatural ability once per day.
- Starting at 18th level, you can use dominate monster as a supernatural ability once per day
- The DC of your abilities is equal to 12 + 1/2 marshal level + cha modifier
Spell thief:
- Your steal spell ability can now store a total number of spell levels equal to twice your class level
- You can use your steal spell ability using a standard action as melee touch attack, even if the target is not willing.
- Spells you steal can now be stored for a number of hours = spell thief level
- Spellgrace instead increases at 5th level and every 5 levels after.
- Starting at 11th level, You can now boost spells you steal with metamagic feats, using your own spells or vice versa. The level of the spell you must sacrifice must be 2+ the metamagic level increase.
- Prestige classes which advance caster level, also advances your level for the steal spell ability.
Ninja
- Add use magic device to your class skills
- You can now sudden strike creatures with concealment
- Your Ki power uses equal your class level + twice your wisdom modifier
- At 5th level and every 5 levels after, gain one bonus ki feat which you qualify for. (found in DR 342)
- At 10th and 20th level, select one creature type immune to critical hits except elementals and ooze. You can now make critical hits against them
Scout
- Add all knowledge skills to your class list
- At 1st level, you can asses more information out of creatures through sense motive. To attempt this, you must spend a a standard action and be within 30 ft of the target. Afterwards choose 2 of the following options. Make opposing sense motive and bluff checks. How high you beat the opposing roll determines the accuracy of your assessment.
- Strength, or Dexterity, or Constitution score, or Armor Class, or Class levels/HD, or current HP (range is per 10 HP)
- If your check exceeds the bluff by 5 or less, the true score is within the range of 5
- If your check exceeds the bluff by 6 or more, the true score is within the range of 3
- If your check exceeds the bluff by 11 or more, the true score is within the range of 1
- If your check exceed the bluff by 16 or more, you learn the exact true score
- For example your roll was 28, while the opponent's was 22, and you chose strength and HP. If the real strength of the target is 24, you will learn that it is within 21-27. If the current HP is 76, you will learn that it is within 46-106 HP.
- Starting at 3rd level, Instead gain monk fast movement.
- At 4th level, gain dark vision 60 ft, this increases to 120 ft at 8th level, and has no range at 12th level
- At 9th level, you can instead make two 5-foot steps on your turn.
- At 12th level, you can move 5 ft. without provoking attacks of opportunity before and after you make an attack.
- At 15th level, you gain blindsight 15 ft., and blind sense 45 feet. At 20th level, you gain blindsight 30 ft., and blind sense 60 feet.
- Gain free movement at lv 16 instead.
- At 7th, 13th and 19th level, select one creature type immune to critical hits except elementals and ooze. You can now make critical hits against them.
Samurai
- Instead gain two swords as one at 1st level, improved at 6th level, greater at 11th level.
- Instead of gaining two swords as one, you can choose to instead gain weapon focus (bastard sword) at 1st level, weapon specialization at 4th level, greater weapon focus at 8th level, greater weapon specialization at 12th level.
- Gain Iaijutsu master at 2nd level
- Gain a bonus fighter feat at 5th level, and every 3 levels after.
- Frightful Presence now affects creatures with more than 20 HD, but not creatures whose HD are 10 or more higher than yours. They are panicked for 4d6 rounds, if their HD is less than yours by 10 or more, or frightened for 4d6 rounds if their HD is less than yours, or shaken for 4d6 rounds if their HD is equal to or higher than yours.
Hexblade
- Curse ability usable a number of times per day equal to class level. In addition, a creature who resists your curse, can now be cursed again after 3 rounds. Lastly, effects which remove a curse must first succeed on a caster level check against 14 + your hexblade level.
- Starting at 4th level, you gain the extend curse feat (DR 399)
- Starting at 6th level, you always know the location of a creature affected by your curse
- Starting at 8th level, you can now target a creature within 60 feet of your familiar or dark companion with your curse ability
- Starting at 10th level, for a number of times per day equal to your charisma modifier, as a swift action you can teleport to a square within 5 feet of a creature you have cursed.
- Starting at 12th level, you can target creatures you have sight of through magical means,such as scrying with your curse ability.
- Starting at 14th level, you can target multiple creatures when you curse, you can target up to 1 additional creature/ 4 hexblade levels. All targets must be within 30 ft. of each other.
- Aura of unluck gained at 5th level, gain one extra use for every 5 levels after.
- Prestige classes which advance caster level, also advances your level for the curse and aura of unluck ability.
Swashbuckler
- Gain dodge feat and dodge bonus at lv 1. Dodge bonus instead increases by 1 at 3rd level and every 3 levels after. The target chosen for your dodge feat and dodge bonus must be the same creature.
- You can select 1 additional creature to be the target of your dodge feat and dodge bonus at 5th level, and every 5 levels after. At 8th level, your dodge bonus also applies to ranged attacks from that creature.
- At 4th level, you gain the combat expertise feat, at 10th level and every 3 levels after you gain a bonus feat. The bonus feat must have combat expertise or dodge as a prerequisite.
- Grace bonus instead increases by 1 at 4th level and every 4 levels after
- Acrobatic skill mastery applies to jump, climb, balance, escape artist and tumble. It also grants a bonus on those checks equal to your intelligence modifier.
- At 5th level, a swashbuckler may feint as a move action.
- At 9th level, a swashbuckler may make a single powerful lunge attack as a full attack. That attack gains a bonus on the attack roll equal to the number of attacks your BAB would allow, and a bonus on the damage roll equal to twice the BAB of all your attacks, and the range increases by 5 feet. For example if your BAB would be +14/+9/+4, and you make a lunge attack, you get a bonus on the attack roll equal to +3 and a bonus on the damage roll equal to +54.
- At 12th level, you can move 5 ft. without provoking attacks of opportunity before and after you make an attack.
Knight
- Gain good fortitude saving throws instead
- Add Balance, diplomacy and sense motive to class skills.
- Knight's challenge uses = Knight level + your Cha mod
- Fighting challenge also imposes a penalty equal to your bonus, on the enemy's attack and damage rolls made on a target other than you. The bonus to your damage rolls, and penalty to opponent's damage roll is +2, instead of +1. At 5th level and every 5 levels after, the bonus and penalty to attack increases by 1, while the bonus and penalty to damage increases by 2. In addition at 13th level, you can challenge up to 2 people with fighting challenge.
- Shield Block also grants DR/- of an equal amount against that target.
- Test of mettle lets you choose which creatures to target.
- At 7th level, you can make an additional attack of opportunity per round per 4 knight levels instead. In addition, if an opponent attacks another creature other than you while you threaten them, they provoke an attack of opportunity from you.
- Lose Call to Battle, instead at 8th level, gain punishing strike (Ex): when a creature provokes an attack of opportunity from you, you can spend one use of Knight's challenge, to gain a bonus to the attack roll equal to your charisma modifier and deal an additional 1d6 damage / 2 knight levels + cha mod.
- For Impetuous endurance, when you roll a 1, instead reroll.
- Bonus feats: At second level, chose mounted combat or shield specialization as a bonus feat. Your future bonus feats must then be mounted or shield based as appropriate to your choice.
Duskblade
- Add UMD to class skills
- Adding metamagic feats to your duskblade spells do not increase the casting time.
- You instead gain an additional use of quick cast at 8th level and every 3 levels after.
Factotum
- You get 1 additional inspiration point at 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th and 18th level.
- Cunning insight instead makes you choose between attack and damage rolls, or saving throws. You gain a competence bonus equal to your int modifier on your choice for 1 round.
- Cunning strike gives you 1d6 per 3 factotum levels of sneak attack for 1 round, cannot be stacked.
- Opportunistic Piety heals 1d8 per factotum level
Troacctid
2018-12-31, 11:12 PM
All looks pretty reasonable to me.
Jack_Simth
2018-12-31, 11:50 PM
Let's see...
About 99% of it affects the lower-tier classes (which is a good thing). Assuming the goal is to buff the mundanes (which it seems to be), you're doing fine there.
The other 1%:
This is a nice bonus for melee casters. An enchanted weapon is now less expensive, and there's some cheap DR.
Charles120
2019-01-01, 01:41 AM
I like most of the fixes but I also see some isues.
1. By maximizing HP and giving extra ability score improvements, "tank" classes become real tanks. The HP gap between D10 classes and casters would be huge. This is quite nice as it means they can actually soak up damage and remain fine, giving them a chance to actually reach and attack casters. This makes it so that they are now more of a threat to casters, and promote defensive spells. The problem here though is that with extra HP, it leads to other problems. Fights can now take a lot longer due to that, and save or die spells would see a lot more play which partially negates the purpose of that fix.
2. Damage inequalities among martial classes. The fix buffed up the HP of them, but only improved the damage output of barbarian, paladin, fighter and ranger. The other martial classes may see it difficult to deal the appropriate damage to meet up with the increased HP. The extra DR also discourages multiple attack builds such as TWF, but to be fair the DM also lessened the price of weapons letting rogues have decent weapons in both hands.
3. Im not seeing the other Tier 4 or tier 5 classes in the fix so im just going to assume that those classes will not be played, but if they will be played, then additional a fix to their problems should also be done.
Now for your second question.
Monk after those fixes do seem interesting. They are now excellent skirmishers with high damage output and are now more true to their myth of being mage slayers. But they still face some issues such as still being MAD (somewhat alleviated with the extra ability scores), still being a D8 and having AC problems. So in my opinion, as a front liner this monk would have to play elusively, while still being able to restrict enemies from reaching the rear. I would recommend a trip build for this monk.
I am pleasantly suprised with the way swashbuckler can be played now. With those fixes, the dodge feat chain does seem quite appealing. It fixes one of the issues of swashbucklers as having only moderate AC against 1 target, and with elsuive target you can wreck havoc against multiple enemies. New abilities like improved feint and the lunge are also added, making the swashbuckler have a large repertoire of possible attacks for a martial class (charge, twf, feint, lunge), but this also means that the class has a lot of features which do not combine, preventing high levels of optimization. If you play swashbuckler, I recommend that you should stick with and just focus on a critical hit build using TWF and lunge, a critical hit lunge will be devastating.
As for which class is a better front liner? I would say the swashbuckler, with dodge and its feat chain and a higher HD, it should be able to stay in melee better.
3. Im not seeing the other Tier 4 or tier 5 classes in the fix so im just going to assume that those classes will not be played, but if they will be played, then additional a fix to their problems should also be done.
Our DM is still doing fixes on factotum and knight, as for the psionics and incarnums, they will not be used. He will also do some fixes on the cure and heal spells.
But they still face some issues such as still being MAD (somewhat alleviated with the extra ability scores), still being a D8 and having AC problems. So in my opinion, as a front liner this monk would have to play elusively,
I disagree with this, with the improved wholeness of body, the healing can let monks stay in battle longer. The AC issue is easy to solve, I can just let one of the other players cast mage armor or other spells.
Goaty14
2019-01-01, 10:04 PM
The AC issue is easy to solve, I can just let one of the other players cast mage armor or other spells.
"My class is viable because another class can fix my problems" is not a valid argument. By the same logic, a Warrior is viable because a wizard can just polymorph them into a hydra.
None of these seem bad, but a couple seem kind of weird.
Half Casters, martial adepts, invocation users
Who are we counting as "half casters"? I assume just the Paladin/Ranger/Hexblade/Spellthief?
- CL is treated as full instead of only half the class level
Does this only apply to half casters, or is it also supposed to change the rules for IL stacking?
- 1 bonus spell slot per spell level, and 1 bonus spell known per spell level
Is it intentional that the spells known won't do anything for Paladins and Rangers? I ask mostly because those classes seem like they're more commonly thought of as partial casters, so it seems like a slightly strange oversight to have the change do nothing for them.
- Feats that require fighter levels have their level requirements halved.
How does this interact with Warblades?
- The feat Weapon specialization and greater instead adds 1d8 to the damage roll.
For simplicity/convenience, I might make this 2d6. It's more damage, but only slightly, and it's generally easier to find d6s than d8s.
- At 5th level, when using flurry of blows or decisive strike, you can move up to your fast movement bonus. You can use this movement before or after each attack.
What does that last bit mean? Can I move freely between attacks, or only once over the whole attack? Do I get to move a total distance equal to my movement bonus, or a per-attack distance equal to the bonus?
- At 6th, 12th and 18th level, select one creature type immune to critical hits except elementals and ooze. You can now make critical hits against them.
Why not those types?
- Prestige classes which advance caster level, also advances your level for the healing hands and cleanse ability
Maybe cleaner to have these key off of caster level explicitly?
- Starting at 4th level, your curse ability now lasts for 4 hours
This seems like it will almost never matter for the PCs.
Troacctid
2019-01-01, 10:39 PM
None of these seem bad, but a couple seem kind of weird.
I can answer most of these and I didn't even write the houserules.
Who are we counting as "half casters"? I assume just the Paladin/Ranger/Hexblade/Spellthief?
The term refers to spellcasters whose caster level is equal to half their class level. (Hence the name.)
Does this only apply to half casters, or is it also supposed to change the rules for IL stacking?
There aren't any martial adepts with IL equal to half their class level.
Is it intentional that the spells known won't do anything for Paladins and Rangers? I ask mostly because those classes seem like they're more commonly thought of as partial casters, so it seems like a slightly strange oversight to have the change do nothing for them.
They know all their spells already. They get an extra spell slot.
How does this interact with Warblades?
The fighter level requirement is halved.
The term refers to spellcasters whose caster level is equal to half their class level. (Hence the name.)
Yes, that's the obvious thing, but it's not actually defined by the houserules. It's easy to imagine someone wanting to include the Bard in that list.
There aren't any martial adepts with IL equal to half their class level.
Martial adepts get IL equal to half their level in non-initiator classes.
They know all their spells already. They get an extra spell slot.
I should perhaps have been more clear that it's strange to write this in the general case, instead of writing for the specific classes it benefits, when half the relevant classes don't benefit from the second part.
The fighter level requirement is halved.
Yes, but is the intention that the Warblade benefit from that halving as well? It's a relatively obscure interaction.
It seems like you're mostly interpreting "there is an answer" as "this answer is intended", which is really missing the entire point of my post.
Who are we counting as "half casters"? I assume just the Paladin/Ranger/Hexblade/Spellthief?
Our DM meant it more for incomplete casters, so also those who do not obtain 9th level spells, so bard, duskblade and prestige classes which also give the limited 4th level spells.
Does this only apply to half casters, or is it also supposed to change the rules for IL stacking?
Yes it only applies for the half casters who have their CL treated as half their class levels instead. Initiator level is still still martial adepts + 1/2 other classes.
How does this interact with warblades?
The original fighter feat requirements is halved, then your fighter level is warblade - 2.
For simplicity/convenience, I might make this 2d6. It's more damage, but only slightly, and it's generally easier to find d6s than d8s.
We do not really have an issue with dice, but I will tell him
What does that last bit mean? Can I move freely between attacks, or only once over the whole attack? Do I get to move a total distance equal to my movement bonus, or a per-attack distance equal to the bonus?
He means that you can freely move between each attack, your total movement using this feature must be equal to or lesser than your fast movement bonus.
Why not those types?
I asked him the exact same question when I read it. He said its because he wants it to still be a bit realistic. So while constructs, undead or plants have key weak points, elementals and oozes do not have those and are just one mass.
This seems like it will almost never matter for the PCs.
I think its for tracking down people? Like if you were able to curse someone far away through your familiar or scrying, and need to spend time to prepare. Or if the target you cursed keeps teleporting and is elusive.
Our DM meant it more for incomplete casters, so also those who do not obtain 9th level spells, so bard, duskblade and prestige classes which also give the limited 4th level spells.
Alright. Additional question: when do you get your bonus spells? I assume when you get access to a new level of spell?
The original fighter feat requirements is halved, then you subtract 2.
So the standard calculation, but with the reduced level requirement?
We do not really have an issue with dice, but I will tell him
I mean if you have the dice you have the dice, it's just that there is a reason that typically effects that result in rolling a lot of dice use d6s -- they're the most common kind of die. It's not even particularly pronounced in this case, unless you're playing some build that gets a whole bunch of attacks.
I asked him the exact same question when I read it. He said its because he wants it to still be a bit realistic. So while constructs, undead or plants have key weak points, elementals and oozes do not have those and are just one mass.
I agree with Oozes, but there are some Elementals that seem like they have weak points. Your standard Air/Earth/Fire/Water Elementals won't, but even things like the Magmin seem like they have enough of an anatomy to be backstabbed. Though I suppose you could make the call that they are in fact internally blobs of fire, even if externally they look like normal people (except made of fire). It's not unreasonable as it stands, just a little weird. I feel like the ideal solution might be to just scale back crit immunity to only the creatures it really makes sense for, but that seems like more work for relatively little gain over the existing houserule.
Oh, also, is there a reason this doesn't also apply to Ninjas or Scouts? They tend to rely on bonus damage to basically the same degree as Rogues. Semi-related, why are there no changes to Scouts? There's nothing wrong with not changing them, but it just seems weird given that all the other classes in Complete Adventurer and Complete Warrior did see changes, and Scouts don't seem notably better.
"My class is viable because another class can fix my problems" is not a valid argument. By the same logic, a Warrior is viable because a wizard can just polymorph them into a hydra.
Well all classes are "viable" depending on the party. For example a bard is a very viable class, but in a party of lots bards, it is not. I take the viability of my class in account with how it can interact and improve with the other members of the party.
This seems like it will almost never matter for the PCs.
Well, once you can curse through scrying, you can soften up somebody you know you're going to run into later. And the "teleport next to a person you've cursed" is nifty for when you intentionally let a minion get away so they'll lead you to their boss/hideout/wherever.
Never played a Hexblade partially because Curse is so limited - I'd definitely be more likely to play this fix than the real class.
Alright. Additional question: when do you get your bonus spells? I assume when you get access to a new level of spell?
yeah
Oh, also, is there a reason this doesn't also apply to Ninjas or Scouts? They tend to rely on bonus damage to basically the same degree as Rogues. Semi-related, why are there no changes to Scouts? There's nothing wrong with not changing them, but it just seems weird given that all the other classes in Complete Adventurer and Complete Warrior did see changes, and Scouts don't seem notably better.
Oh i forgot to mention he is still making the scout fixes. I will suggest to him to also add it to ninja
Okay our DM finished the fixes and I edited them in. He added fixes to cure spells, but debuffed heal spell. He added fixes to duskblade, knight, scout and factotum. He also edited the fixes he made on paladin, ninja and hex blade.
So any suggestions on what class would be a good melee front liner with all these house rules?
Karl Aegis
2019-01-02, 12:34 PM
The best melee front-liner would probably still be the Scout. The combination of Evasion, skills, Skirmish and Fast Movement more than make up for the lack of three points of Base Attack Bonus. You might want a Barbarian or Ranger dip for access for Spirit Lion Totem pounce or Wand of Lion's Charge, respectively.
Swashbuckler is now a solid throwing axe character. Not particularly a melee character, but a solid thrower with dexterity to hit and intelligence to damage. Pick up Far Shot and Gauntlets of Extended Range and maybe Weapon Mastery if you can afford a Fighter dip and you're all set.
Monk is now a solid Zen Archery class. They may need to be an Elf or take a Fighter dip for access to bows, but they have all the defensive abilities an archer would want or need. The only melee build I can think of requires Steadfast Boots and abuses Start/Complete Full Round Action, Decisive Strike, Improved Trip and Knock-Down to basically murder anything that charges you and doesn't have more reach than you.
GrayDeath
2019-01-02, 02:27 PM
Some very nice fixes that dont uipend the Game.
Playing with these rules should not only be fine, but fun (and offer incentives to play Classes most people usually ignore or at most dip).
Your DM seems to know what he is doing. :)
Gotta say, I'm loving those Knight fixes. Enemies provoking AoO's when they attack an ally while in your threat range is fantastic especially when combined with Shield Ally and Bulwark of Defense, and Punishing Strike plus the buff to Knight's Challenge uses and Fighting Challenge means you can actually make those AoO's hurt.
Charles120
2019-01-02, 10:25 PM
Swashbuckler is now a solid throwing axe character. Not particularly a melee character, but a solid thrower with dexterity to hit and intelligence to damage. Pick up Far Shot and Gauntlets of Extended Range and maybe Weapon Mastery if you can afford a Fighter dip and you're all set.
Why a throwing axe build? I see more potential in a critical hit build, with the addition of lunge and feint.
I also feel like scout would not be the best option for melee frontlining. Until they obtain freedom of movement, which can be gained at lv 16 now, they are very easy to bring down.
And actually I see a pretty nice melee monk build right now. At 12th level, just take 5 levels of monk, 4 levels of fighter and 3 levels of barbarian. This will allow you to have an excellent charge build, that can move even after charging, letting you strike different enemies in different places, or do a hit and run combo. With fighter feats and 1 replacable feat, it should give you the ultimate versatility of whether you want to focus on tripping, or doing lots of damage. Barbarian gives pounce, and a rage can help the monk stay in battle longer
Karl Aegis
2019-01-03, 12:50 AM
Why a throwing axe build? I see more potential in a critical hit build, with the addition of lunge and feint.
I also feel like scout would not be the best option for melee frontlining. Until they obtain freedom of movement, which can be gained at lv 16 now, they are very easy to bring down.
And actually I see a pretty nice melee monk build right now. At 12th level, just take 5 levels of monk, 4 levels of fighter and 3 levels of barbarian. This will allow you to have an excellent charge build, that can move even after charging, letting you strike different enemies in different places, or do a hit and run combo. With fighter feats and 1 replacable feat, it should give you the ultimate versatility of whether you want to focus on tripping, or doing lots of damage. Barbarian gives pounce, and a rage can help the monk stay in battle longer
Throwing axe is a light weapon, you can throw it and you can lunge with it without having to risk feinting in combat.
Your multiclass build uses too many mutually exclusive options for me to be comfortable with it.There is also an extra Barbarian level which gives... Trap Sense +1 in exchange for +1 Fortitude Save, +10 Fast Movement, a bonus feat and potentially a Stunning Fist use. I don't see how that is acceptable.
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