Using nets effectively

[Quoz]

Has anyone found or used a build (preferably that comes online in early levels) that effectively uses a net? Not necessarily one that relies on it, but has it as a viable option in their bag of tricks. Restraining a big bad, even for a turn, can set up disadvantage for big damage spells, take away their actions, or open up sneak attacks.

There are several issues to overcome to make nets viable.

-proficiency (martial weapon)
-overcome disadvantage (short range of 5 feet means all attacks are either long range or using ranged in melee, both of which give disadvantage)
-Action economy restriction. The net's special property makes it incompatible with extra attacks. Attacking as a bonus action is the ideal, but other bonus actions that capitalize on the restrained condition are helpful.

The best thing I have found so far is crossbow expert, which allows both attacks without disadvantage in melee range and a hand crossbow follow up after using a net.

[MaxWilson]

Has anyone found or used a build (preferably that comes online in early levels) that effectively uses a net? Not necessarily one that relies on it, but has it as a viable option in their bag of tricks. Restraining a big bad, even for a turn, can set up disadvantage for big damage spells, take away their actions, or open up sneak attacks.

*snip*

The best thing I have found so far is crossbow expert, which allows both attacks without disadvantage in melee range and a hand crossbow follow up after using a net.

Some characters that benefit from nets:

* Beastmaster Rangers (only get one attack anyway when pet attacks), especially if you happen to have Sharpshooter for long-range non-pet combat, or even just a friendly wizard with an Owl familiar to Help cancel your disadvantage.

* Valor Bardlock using War Magic (w/ Magical Secret: Eldritch Blast) to restrain w/ net AND blast w/ Agonizing Repelling Eldritch Blast, especially if you have either Crossbow Expert or Sharpshooter.

* Necromancers using pairs of skeletons/zombies to (1) Help to cancel disadvantage, and then (2) throw Net. If you have eight skeletons, that comes out to 4 Net attacks per turn, at +2 or +4 depending on whether the DM rules that they don't have proficiency. Not bad for a single 5th level spell slot per day and a bonus action.

* Anyone using grapple/prone tricks. Tossing on a Net as a followup ensures that (1) any ranged allies now don't have disadvantage to attack your target, and (2) your target now has to break both your grapple AND the net in one turn before they can stand up from being prone, which basically isn't feasible to do. Since your target is prone and you're within 5', you don't have disadvantage on your Net attack. (Especially great for the above Valor Bardlock, or equivalent Eldritch Knight using Greenflame Blade + War Magic (Net).)

[Tanarii]

Both Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter apply to nets. Take the former to use without disadvantage in melee range, and the latter to use without disadvantage at long range. Then take Weapon Master to add +1 Dex and gain proficiency in Nets, Longbows, Heavy Crossbows, and one other (Whip?). Or 1 level in a class that provides Martial Weapon Proficiency.

Heck of a lot of investment but it'd make them useable as a regular weapon. As well as making you incredible with Crossbows and Longbows. Probably not using Net as your primary weapon, but a good close in one when danger gets too close.

Since you're limited to one attack per round action, sounds like a Rogue to me. But also maybe a high Dex caster that's got mostly utility cantrips instead of attack cantrips? Dex Cleric or Dex Druid or Bard (non-valor)?

[No brains]

On the weirder side of things, there's the monk relay launcher, where you throw a net at your monk friend so they can use Deflect Arrows to throw it further. Damage instantly gets reduced to 0 and the monk gets a new attack with improved range. Some will argue this doesn't work, but with how little use I see of both nets and Deflect Arrows, I don't think it is the worst.

Then there's using Tavern Brawler to walk up and smack someone with a net. Another thing DMs will disagree on. Does the net have net properties when used improvised in melee? Does it deal no damage or 1d4? Does it blast sunshine and rainbows as it hits for 1d4+restrained without disadvantage? Again, it's a combo of two under-powered options used well, so I don't see issue with it.

Finally, anything with a substantial slashing attack is going to break the net as part of its multiattack action, then move without restriction to make its next attack. That is to speak nothing of teleports, immunity to restrained, Freedom of Movement, huge size, or being moderately far away. Even when a DM lets people have fun landing a net, its easy to counter them with less than an action in many cases.

[MaxWilson]

On the weirder side of things, there's the monk relay launcher, where you throw a net at your monk friend so they can use Deflect Arrows to throw it further. Damage instantly gets reduced to 0 and the monk gets a new attack with improved range. Some will argue this doesn't work, but with how little use I see of both nets and Deflect Arrows, I don't think it is the worst.

Then there's using Tavern Brawler to walk up and smack someone with a net. Another thing DMs will disagree on. Does the net have net properties when used improvised in melee? Does it deal no damage or 1d4? Does it blast sunshine and rainbows as it hits for 1d4+restrained without disadvantage? Again, it's a combo of two under-powered options used well, so I don't see issue with it.

Using sneak attack to deal damage with a net (ideally on a Sharpshooter rogue) is also pretty weird and arguably doesn't work, but is kind of worth mentioning along the same lines as Tavern Brawler.


Finally, anything with a substantial slashing attack is going to break the net as part of its multiattack action, then move without restriction to make its next attack. That is to speak nothing of teleports, immunity to restrained, Freedom of Movement, huge size, or being moderately far away. Even when a DM lets people have fun landing a net, its easy to counter them with less than an action in many cases.

That's why grappling + proning and nets go so well together--if the creature has used its action to attack the net, it doesn't have another action free to resist your grapple so it remains prone unless your DM has given it a Multiattack that includes a Shove option to shove you out of grapple range. (I routinely and implicitly do this for all monsters but technically most MM monsters as written cannot Shove as part of their Multiattacks.)

But yeah, pay attention to which monsters have slashing attacks. It should be obvious from the monster description. Big angry crocodile or bone naga? Nets will work! Orog with gigantic battleaxe? Not so much, unless you pair it with grappling. Incorporeal wraith or huge fire giant? Don't even bother.

[Tanarii]

Finally, anything with a substantial slashing attack is going to break the net as part of its multiattack action, then move without restriction to make its next attack.Disadvantage vs AC 10 can mean less than 50% chance of freeing itself with each attack until high level (and correspondingly high attack bonus).

But it's a fair point overall. Like many things in the game, Nets are not really a high level tactic. But then, not that many games go to 11+ anyway.

[MaxWilson]

Disadvantage vs AC 10 can mean less than 50% chance of freeing itself with each attack until high level (and correspondingly high attack bonus).

But it's a fair point overall. Like many things in the game, Nets are not really a high level tactic. But then, not that many games go to 11+ anyway.

It's not about level, it's just about choosing the right weapon for the situation. You could be in the middle of a level 20 Deadly combat against 77,000 XP worth of Star Spawns (2 Hulks, a Larva Mage, a Mangler, and a Seer) and it would still be worth the Valor Bardlock tossing a Net on one of the Hulks to pin it briefly in place before blasting the Larva Mage to break its Dominate Monster of the Zealot Barbarian.

Even if you are fighting something with slashing weapons and/or teleportation like a bunch of Death Slaads or Shadar-Kai or Githyanki, at least that's one monster which is (sort of) forced to spend an action on an attack on the net instead of casting Fireball or on gutting the sorlock like a fish, and in the meantime everybody gets advantage on attacks against it. Not a terrible use for your bonus action.

[LudicSavant]

Sadly the best way to use nets is to have minions throw the nets for you. But if you want to do it with martial characters, a Rogue with Crossbow expert loses less than most martials on the deal (They need a Fighter dip or to be a Sea Elf to use nets, but neither of those things are bad choices). They can make the attack in melee without penalty, and then still get their Sneak Attack in via the crossbow expert bonus action. It also grants them a way to give themselves Advantage. An Eldritch Knight also can combine netting with War Magic.

Personally, I find this to be a frustrating limitation of 5e's design, because generally people don't want to make "hand crossbow and net" or "my pet has a net," they want to make a retiarius or something. But D&D apparently hates retiarii. They even made tridents suck for basically no reason.

Seriously, hand crossbow and net? What even is that? Next they'll be wanting us to dual-wield lances on horseback instead of a rapier-and-dagger or katana-and-wakizashi style. Oh wait... they already have that one too...

[Nhorianscum]

As a fun alternative to crossbow/longbow/ally nets.

3 levels of sorcerer for quickened net catapults.

[CheddarChampion]

The haste spell is great for nets.
As for builds, make a level 13+ Eldritch Knight with sharpshooter and a good Con save.
Self-haste, throw net at 10-15 feet (no disadvantage), action surge for sharpshooter attacks against the restrained enemy. Don't have to action surge on following turns

[XmonkTad]

As a fun alternative to crossbow/longbow/ally nets.

3 levels of sorcerer for quickened net catapults.
Wow, I wasn't sure about this, but a look through the RAW convinced me otherwise. Net restrains any creature it hits, catapult makes an object hit something. No idea how a net reacts to bludgeoning damage, but it doesn't free the creature harmlessly like slashing damage does.

[CTurbo]

I had a sharpshooter Fighter that did carry and use nets on occasion. There were a few occasions where it came in handy. Also, the DM homebrewed a tougher net for me to buy with the AC raised to 13, DC Str check to 13, and HP to 10. He also homebrewed an acid net that dealt 1d6 acid damage on a hit, and then at the beginning of each subsequent turn started in the net. Not huge differences but made the net a little less of a joke. This is my DM style too always happy to homebrew stuff like that for players.

[olskool]

You might talk to your DM about allowing a special weapons combination pairing the net with another weapon. The Roman Retiarius Gladiator armed with a WEAK HANDED Net to entangle opponents and a strong handed Trident to stab them comes to my mind immediately.

[strangebloke]

As a fun alternative to crossbow/longbow/ally nets.

3 levels of sorcerer for quickened net catapults.

This is fantastic and I love it. I'm remembering this for the next time a 'how to build spiderman' thread comes up.

Careful, Quickening storm sorcerer with tavern brawler who uses booming fist to punch people while floating about the battlefield and catapulting nets at them.

[MaxWilson]

This is fantastic and I love it. I'm remembering this for the next time a 'how to build spiderman' thread comes up.

Careful, Quickening storm sorcerer with tavern brawler who uses booming fist to punch people while floating about the battlefield and catapulting nets at them.

None of that actually works though. Booming Blade doesn't work with fists; you can't Careful and Quicken at the same time; Catapult doesn't make a ranged weapon attack using the weapon's properties, it just hurls it for 3d8 damage. You could hit someone with a lump of netting for 3d8 damage, but what you want is something quite different.

Just use the Web spell instead.

[strangebloke]

None of that actually works though. Booming Blade doesn't work with fists; you can't Careful and Quicken at the same time; Catapult doesn't make a ranged weapon attack using the weapon's properties, it just hurls it for 3d8 damage. You could hit someone with a lump of netting for 3d8 damage, but what you want is something quite different.

Just use the Web spell instead.

Quicken is for catapult, and also for making you more agile in general.

Careful is a miss-pick. I thought it fit well with the idea of being a 'friendly neighborhood spiderman,' but I can't actually think of a single spell it works with that's on-theme.

The booming fist thing is commonly accepted at most tables I've seen it come up at. People know its against the rules, but its rather weak and useful for getting certain archetypes so I've never seen a DM that wouldn't let it slide. Mechanically you're just taking a feat to deal the same amount of damage as a dagger.

As to the catapult-net thing:

"A Large or smaller creature hit by a net is Restrained until it is freed."

"If the object would strike a creature, it must make a Dexterity save. On a failed save, the object hits the target. The object and anything it strikes take 3d8 bludgeoning damage."

There's nothing in there about it requiring the net to be thrown as part of a weapon attack. You can throw it as a weapon attack, but that isn't a prereq for restraining someone with it. If a net is released from a trap and falls on you, it hits you and you're restrained. If you run quickly into a net, you're restrained. If your DM lets you shoot nets from a ballista, those nets will restrain any target hit.

As to sage advice, JC thinks that although the interaction between alchemist's fire and catapult is not covered by the rules, its perfectly reasonable for a DM to allow for the alchemists fire to take effect. (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/04/17/if-i-cast-the-spell-catapult-and-used-a-flask-of-alchemists-fire-as-the-amunition-would-i-deal-both-the-spell-and-the-fire-damage/) (he does clarify that it doesn't count as a weapon attack, still, which is important for things like crits and other features.) Personally I'd view the alchemist's fire thing as way more questionable, since the item only deals damage as part of a special item interaction normally. So if JC thinks that is a reasonable extension of the rules, I can't see him being really intense about a net, since that does work by RAW.

[Trickery]

I assume we're talking about RAW here and not how a particular DM will rule it.

As others have stated, the trick is to hit a creature with the net without needing to make a ranged attack. By RAW, "A Large or smaller creature hit by a net is Restrained until it is freed." Read that twice. A Large or smaller creature hit by a net is Restrained.

It doesn't matter how the net hits the target. By the rules, it's restrained. So both the Tavern Brawler and Catapult methods will work. Catapult is particularly effective if you can line up multiple targets since, if the first makes the save, the second might not.

Worst case scenario: you force the creature to spend its action freeing itself from the net.

[Quoz]

So RAI/RAW, two weapon fighting normally allows light thrown weapons in addition to light melee. So would the Dual Wielder feat let you use nets as a bonus action by removing the light weapon requirement from two weapon fighting?

[strangebloke]

So RAI/RAW, two weapon fighting normally allows light thrown weapons in addition to light melee. So would the Dual Wielder feat let you use nets as a bonus action by removing the light weapon requirement from two weapon fighting?

Yes. You can attack twice and then throw a net as a bonus action. It's pretty slick.

If there was a 'master thrower' feat as many people wish there was, it would probably be a sort of passable combo with duel-wielder, for this and other interactions..

[Misterwhisper]

Yes. You can attack twice and then throw a net as a bonus action. It's pretty slick.

If there was a 'master thrower' feat as many people wish there was, it would probably be a sort of passable combo with duel-wielder, for this and other interactions..

That doesn’t work, nets are ranged weapons, dual wielder only effects melee weapons.

[Trickery]

That doesn’t work, nets are ranged weapons, dual wielder only effects melee weapons.

It presumably would by also using Tavern Brawler and using the net as an improvised melee weapon. Some DMs may find that silly, but I digress.

[MaxWilson]

It presumably would by also using Tavern Brawler and using the net as an improvised melee weapon. Some DMs may find that silly, but I digress.

That doesn't work either. Improvised weapons don't count as the things you improvised them from--e.g. you can't use GWM power attack with a longbow that you're using as an improvised club, even though longbows have the heavy property. A net being used as an improvised... whip or something... isn't functioning as a net. None of the net rules like restraining apply.

Just make up a retiarius feat instead.

[Trickery]

That doesn't work either. Improvised weapons don't count as the things you improvised them from--e.g. you can't use GWM power attack with a longbow that you're using as an improvised club, even though longbows have the heavy property. A net being used as an improvised... whip or something... isn't functioning as a net. None of the net rules like restraining apply.

Just make up a retiarius feat instead.

Are you sure about that? I know that there was sage advice about this, but that ruling isn't backed up by any actual game text that I could find. I don't think we're discussing RAI. If we are, then using Sharpshooter to throw nets 15' without disadvantage won't work, either, as Sharpshooter wasn't intended to work with thrown weapons IIRC.

[Misterwhisper]

Are you sure about that? I know that there was sage advice about this, but that ruling isn't backed up by any actual game text that I could find. I don't think we're discussing RAI. If we are, then using Sharpshooter to throw nets 15' without disadvantage won't work, either, as Sharpshooter wasn't intended to work with thrown weapons IIRC.

There is no such thing as thrown weapons.

Nets are ranged weapons, same as a bow or crossbow.

Sharpshooter does not work on melee weapons that have the thrown property like daggers.

[MaxWilson]

Are you sure about that? I know that there was sage advice about this, but that ruling isn't backed up by any actual game text that I could find. I don't think we're discussing RAI. If we are, then using Sharpshooter to throw nets 15' without disadvantage won't work, either, as Sharpshooter wasn't intended to work with thrown weapons IIRC.

Reread the text of Sharpshooter. 2 out of its 3 benefits apply to all ranged attacks; only the -5/+10 is restricted to attacks with ranged weapons. (Confusing terminology overlap, I know, but the distinction is that the thrown tag on a melee weapon lets you make a ranged weapon attack with a melee weapon--it's still not a ranged weapon though.)


You have mastered ranged weapons and can make shots that others find impossible. You gain the following benefits:

Attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged weapon attack rolls.
Your ranged weapon attacks ignore half cover and three-quarters cover.
Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage.

In any case, the net is a genuine, 100% ranged weapon, so all three of the Sharpshooter benefits apply.

[Potato_Priest]

There is no such thing as thrown weapons.

Nets are ranged weapons, same as a bow or crossbow.

Sharpshooter does not work on melee weapons that have the thrown property like daggers.

I think it's only the -5/+10 portions of sharpshooter that don't work on thrown weapons. It's my impression that the range and cover sections are the "useful for other situations as well" portions of the feat, since they try to make certain portions of feats more generally applicable than others.

Edit: Ninja'd by Maxwilson. Dang!

[LudicSavant]

According to sage advice, nets don't have a damage roll of zero that you can add 10 to. They just don't roll damage at all, and therefore can't benefit from extra damage, whether it's sneak attack, sharpshooter, hunter's mark, whatever.

[Potato_Priest]

Nets don't have a damage roll of zero that you can add 10 to. They just don't roll damage at all, and therefore can't benefit from extra damage. JC has said as much in the past.
Unless you're a monk with sharpshooter making an attack with them using projectile deflection, in which case they do have a damage roll.

Edit: Hmm, you do still have to be proficient with a net to use the -5/+10, and although the monk would get their proficiency bonus added to this particular attack, they're still not proficient with the net. I guess to pull it off they have to either be a kensai who picked the net, a human who took the weapon master feat, or to have gained the proficiency from the gladiator background.

[JackPhoenix]

Unless you're a monk with sharpshooter making an attack with them using projectile deflection, in which case they do have a damage roll.

Edit: Hmm, you do still have to be proficient with a net to use the -5/+10, and although the monk would get their proficiency bonus added to this particular attack, they're still not proficient with the net. I guess to pull it off they have to either be a kensai who picked the net, a human who took the weapon master feat, or to have gained the proficiency from the gladiator background.

Gladiator background doesn't give proficiency, it gives you the weapon as a piece of equipment.

And kensai can't pick a net as their kensai weapon, as it has the special property.

[Potato_Priest]

Gladiator background doesn't give proficiency, it gives you the weapon as a piece of equipment.

And kensai can't pick a net as their kensai weapon, as it has the special property.

Mmm, true. Probably not worth trying to get the -5/+10 in that case.

[Degwerks]

I'm thinking of a 5th level Hexblade Bladepact Warlock with a few levels of Ranger or Ancients Paladin. Variant Human for crossbow expert feat.

Get a magic net for your pact weapon. Throw it and Eldritch Smite with it, knocking them prone and being restrained. Could also cast Ensaring Strike before the attack making them potentially waste 2 actions to get free of the restrained condition and taking additional damage each round.

[JackPhoenix]

I'm thinking of a 5th level Hexblade Bladepact Warlock with a few levels of Ranger or Ancients Paladin. Variant Human for crossbow expert feat.

Get a magic net for your pact weapon. Throw it and Eldritch Smite with it, knocking them prone and being restrained. Could also cast Ensaring Strike before the attack making them potentially waste 2 actions to get free of the restrained condition and taking additional damage each round.

You can't use Eldritch Smite with a net, as net doesn't cause any damage, so "additional damage" doesn't do anything.

[Specter]

Anyone with Sharpshooter or Crossbow Expert can make good use of it.

We get too hung up on extra attacks, but think about it: if you know your attacks won't kill the BBEG, you might as well restrain him and watch him squirm for one entire round.

[BobZan]

An Arcane Trickster by 4th level with Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter and Mending. Can sneak attack with handcrossbow, throw a net from 15feet and after combat can repair his damaged nets with Mending.

[Misterwhisper]

Anyone with Sharpshooter or Crossbow Expert can make good use of it.

We get too hung up on extra attacks, but think about it: if you know your attacks won't kill the BBEG, you might as well restrain him and watch him squirm for one entire round.

The limit on one attack is for the net only, you can still attack with other weapons, just only one net attack.

JC confirmed this in sage advice.

[Trickery]

An Arcane Trickster by 4th level with Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter and Mending. Can sneak attack with handcrossbow, throw a net from 15feet and after combat can repair his damaged nets with Mending.

I think the new consensus is that the bonus action (crossbow expert, after attacking with a one-handed weapon) would have to occur after the triggering attack. I don't agree with that interpretation of the rules since it goes against a) what people have been doing for years and b) what Crawford said about the same issue in the past. But I'm adding it here just to nip that debate in the bud.

I think that's an excellent strategy, regardless. Pull out net, restrain the target from 15', then shoot them with advantage while they're restrained. The only thing I would add is two levels of fighter for action surge, archery*, and proficiency with nets.
*Unsure of intent, but the wording of archery suggests that it does work with nets since nets are a thrown weapon.

[MaxWilson]

The limit on one attack is for the net only, you can still attack with other weapons, just only one net attack.

JC confirmed this in sage advice.

That's not how I read the rules--you can't make one net attack + Extra Attack with a broadsword. You just get the net attack.

[BobZan]

That's not how I read the rules--you can't make one net attack + Extra Attack with a broadsword. You just get the net attack.

You can play RAW, but RAI you can attack with Net only once and do all your other attacks


I think the new consensus is that the bonus action (crossbow expert, after attacking with a one-handed weapon) would have to occur after the triggering attack. I don't agree with that interpretation of the rules since it goes against a) what people have been doing for years and b) what Crawford said about the same issue in the past. But I'm adding it here just to nip that debate in the bud.

I think that's an excellent strategy, regardless. Pull out net, restrain the target from 15', then shoot them with advantage while they're restrained. The only thing I would add is two levels of fighter for action surge, archery*, and proficiency with nets.
*Unsure of intent, but the wording of archery suggests that it does work with nets since nets are a thrown weapon.

Yeah, a level or two of fighter would be great indeed, for added accuracy

[strangebloke]

That doesn’t work, nets are ranged weapons, dual wielder only effects melee weapons.

Ah yes, quite true. I forgot that.

It presumably would by also using Tavern Brawler and using the net as an improvised melee weapon. Some DMs may find that silly, but I digress.

I would disagree with this on the basis of RAI. Quantum weapons that both are an improvised weapon and are what they were before seems a bit silly.

Notably, I see the catapult spell as being different, because it isn't re-framing the net as a club or anything else, and official RAI supports using catapult to launch specialized projectiles like alchemists fire.


That's not how I read the rules--you can't make one net attack + Extra Attack with a broadsword. You just get the net attack.

Yes, I would agree with this. But it is a sensible way to make things work. Throw a net, stab with spear.

[MaxWilson]

Yes, I would agree with this. But it is a sensible way to make things work. Throw a net, stab with spear.

Yeah, I suspect the rule was made for game balance reasons rather than verisimilitude. It would be perfectly sensible (from a game fiction perspective) to not have that rule at all.

On the other hand, there's also nothing wrong with throwing a net and then having your buddies stab with spears, or stabbing with a spear yourself after a few seconds have passed. Fundamentally, Extra Attack just doesn't have any coherent game fiction associated with it, so there's no real fictional impact when it's disallowed in certain situations.

[Trickery]

I would disagree with this on the basis of RAI. Quantum weapons that both are an improvised weapon and are what they were before seems a bit silly.

Notably, I see the catapult spell as being different, because it isn't re-framing the net as a club or anything else, and official RAI supports using catapult to launch specialized projectiles like alchemists fire.


I don't disagree, but I do think there's an interesting point to be made about this. If a player uses Catapult to launch alchemist's fire, people seem generally okay with the idea that the alchemist fire effect would also occur. It makes sense as the object that Catapult catapults also takes damage. People seem a little less okay with using Catapult + net; there's more of a split opinion here.

Then there's things like Longbow as an improvised weapon + GWM. Is the longbow still a "heavy" weapon if used this way? If so, we can assume that any sufficiently large object can be an improvised heavy weapon. If not, we can assume that GWM refers specifically to training with select heavy weapons. Which one's correct? That depends who you ask. But one point in favor of the latter argument is that greatclubs do not have the heavy property despite outweighing longbows.

Then there's nets in melee. If a net used as an improvised weapon hits a target, does the special property of the net still go off? That's a complicated question. We know the RAI on the matter, but that's just one ruling (even by Crawford's own admission). Once again, people disagree. Adding to the complication, the improvised section of the book states that an improvised object that's similar enough to the object it's improvising, such as a table leg - club, can be treated like the weapon. However, we have no stats for melee nets.

There's no right answer, I believe.

Though I will say that a historian familiar with Roman gladiators would point out that nets were actually swung, not thrown, much of the time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l-zcqPOmWY). But this doesn't necessarily have any bearing on D&D. It's completely up to each DM.

[Zalabim]

The limit on one attack is for the net only, you can still attack with other weapons, just only one net attack.

JC confirmed this in sage advice.

That is not what the rule says and JC did not contradict it in sage advice. Now provide the quote you think proves your position so we can all have a chuckle at my ignorance. The restriction on number of attacks you can make when using a net is put on the action, not on your turn. A war cleric can throw a net as an action, throw a net with their war priest bonus action, and if they maybe have a battle master or banneret in the party that uses the right ability, they can also throw a net as a reaction later.

[Quoz]

I'm going to put on my rules lawyer hat for a moment to say there's a decent case to be made for TWF nets with Dual Wielder.

The rules for two weapon fighting say you may make a bonus action attack if both weapons are light melee weapons. The second paragraph says if either has the thrown property you may throw it instead of making melee attacks

Dual wielder says you may use two weapon fighting when the one handed melee weapon you are wielding isn't light

So why does the hand crossbow have the light property? RAW it isn't a melee weapon so can never be used with two weapon fighting. RAI not only can you clearly use paired hand crossbows or bow and blade, it is an iconic style with its own dedicated feat to make you better at it.

So if you can use hand crossbows with TWF, and Dual Wielder removes the requirement for light weapons, then I can certainly see Dual Wielder opening up darts, slings, and nets as one handed ranged weapons for two weapon fighting.

[Misterwhisper]

That is not what the rule says and JC did not contradict it in sage advice. Now provide the quote you think proves your position so we can all have a chuckle at my ignorance. The restriction on number of attacks you can make when using a net is put on the action, not on your turn. A war cleric can throw a net as an action, throw a net with their war priest bonus action, and if they maybe have a battle master or banneret in the party that uses the right ability, they can also throw a net as a reaction later.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/760174082352709632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5E tweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E760174082352709632&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2F2016%2F0 9%2F09%2Fcan-i-attack-with-the-net-and-then-the-hand-crossbow-on-the-same-turn%2F

Word for word exactly what it means.

[JackPhoenix]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/760174082352709632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5E tweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E760174082352709632&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2F2016%2F0 9%2F09%2Fcan-i-attack-with-the-net-and-then-the-hand-crossbow-on-the-same-turn%2F

Word for word exactly what it means.

That's not what you claim, though. That tweet disallows extra attack if you use your action to throw a net, but it won't stop you from attacking again with BA or reaction, if you have some means to do so.

You can throw your net with an action and then use BA to shoot with hand crossbow with Crossbow Expert, use action with extra attack with normal weapon and then throw the net with BA from War cleric BA attack, if you have both it and Extra Attack, but you can't throw a net, then attack with a different weapon in the same action if you have Extra Attack.


I'm going to put on my rules lawyer hat for a moment to say there's a decent case to be made for TWF nets with Dual Wielder.

The rules for two weapon fighting say you may make a bonus action attack if both weapons are light melee weapons. The second paragraph says if either has the thrown property you may throw it instead of making melee attacks

Dual wielder says you may use two weapon fighting when the one handed melee weapon you are wielding isn't light

So why does the hand crossbow have the light property? RAW it isn't a melee weapon so can never be used with two weapon fighting. RAI not only can you clearly use paired hand crossbows or bow and blade, it is an iconic style with its own dedicated feat to make you better at it.

So if you can use hand crossbows with TWF, and Dual Wielder removes the requirement for light weapons, then I can certainly see Dual Wielder opening up darts, slings, and nets as one handed ranged weapons for two weapon fighting.

Propably leftover from the testing before the final rules were set. You can't use hand crossbow or any other ranged weapon with TWF, that's both RAW and RAI. RAI and RAW you can't use paired hand crossbows either, even with Crossbow Expert, as you need two hands to reload them thanks to ammunition property, unless you shoot both of them with extra attack and then drop one to reload.

[Remover of Obst]

Nets are ranged weapons, same as a bow or crossbow.

Just noting that the nets are "thrown", so strength based attack roll.

But they are ranged weapons, so fighting style archery would apply.

[MaxWilson]

Just noting that the nets are "thrown", so strength based attack roll.

But they are ranged weapons, so fighting style archery would apply.

That's not what the "thrown" tag means in 5E. It doesn't change the ability you use it with. You're thinking of Finesse maybe?

[Potato_Priest]

That's not what the "thrown" tag means in 5E. It doesn't change the ability you use it with. You're thinking of Finesse maybe?

They're probably thinking of the fact that every other thrown weapon can be used with strength.

[stoutstien]

They're probably thinking of the fact that every other thrown weapon can be used with strength.
Which brings up a point actually why doesn't the net have the finesse tag?

[MaxWilson]

They're probably thinking of the fact that every other thrown weapon can be used with strength.

Yeah, because they are all (except Darts) melee weapons, and melee attacks always use Strength unless they have the Finesse tag to let you use either. Darts are ranged (thrown) weapons with the Finesse tag, so they also let you use Strength if you want to. Nets are ranged (thrown) weapons without Finesse, so they use exclusively Dex.

[JackPhoenix]

Which brings up a point actually why doesn't the net have the finesse tag?

Because it doesn't do damage anyway, and how strong you throw it doesn't incluence if you can catch something in it. Giving it finesse trait wouldn't make sense.

[Sigreid]

What about multiple people throwing nets at the same target so they have to use more actions/attacks to get out?

[Vessyra]

Level 7 eldritch knight with crossbow master works great, since crossbow master applies to all ranged attacks, meaning that you can fire bolt and throw a net in melee without disadvantage.

[stoutstien]

Because it doesn't do damage anyway, and how strong you throw it doesn't incluence if you can catch something in it. Giving it finesse trait wouldn't make sense.

well back at a post way back when that was talking about nets should probably be an item not a weapon because it has no damage.
Throwing even a small net such as a 5-foot radius one takes a lot of strength. Now that I think About it, at only 3 lbs it must be made out of spider silk.......

If we just turn the word net into bolas it would make a lot more sense.

[MaxWilson]

well back at a post way back when that was talking about nets should probably be an item not a weapon because it has no damage.
Throwing even a small net such as a 5-foot radius one takes a lot of strength. Now that I think About it, at only 3 lbs it must be made out of spider silk.......

If we just turn the word net into bolas it would make a lot more sense.

Good points. How much do you think would be a realistic weight? Ten pounds maybe?

I think bolas would restrict either movement or attacks but not both.

[Chronos]

But if it doesn't have the finesse tag, then how hard you throw it does influence if you catch something in it. As written, it still needs an attack roll, and it adds Str, not Dex, to that roll.

[JackPhoenix]

But if it doesn't have the finesse tag, then how hard you throw it does influence if you catch something in it. As written, it still needs an attack roll, and it adds Str, not Dex, to that roll.

It's ranged weapon. It uses Dex, not Str.

[stoutstien]

Good points. How much do you think would be a realistic weight? Ten pounds maybe?

I think bolas would restrict either movement or attacks but not both.

Ten pounds would be more likely. I've handled a reproduction of a retiarius style net which was around that much. Of course this style net was made to be whipped at an opponent to prevent effective weapons strikes and or disarm.
If it was thrown it was within 10 feet (swung overhead like a swing) and the user tried to pull the net to disarm the opponent or immediately strike.