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View Full Version : 3rd Ed Beguiler/Unseen Seer and Sneak Attack



TalonOfAnathrax
2019-01-01, 12:24 PM
I'm currently playing a Beguiler with 5 levels in Unseen Seer (I'm level 19 at this point) and it feels like a shame to let those Sneak Attack dice go to waste. And I'm a Shadowcraft Mage too, so I can cast attacks spells if I want to and actually put those Sneak Attack dice to good use!
Is there a way for me to get Sneak Attack through an item or something? I'm unwilling to multiclass or spent a feat on it, but I've got a lot of gold and access to a crafter. Is there anything in some splatbook or something that could do the job?

I thought of the Rogue's Vest or Mantle of the Predator (both from the MiC) but due to wording neither work.

DrMotives
2019-01-01, 12:38 PM
Sure, Tome of Battle has a stance for that. The "shadow hands" gloves variant of crown of the white raven will let you use the stance.

gkathellar
2019-01-01, 12:39 PM
What about Assassin's Stance? You can get it for two feats, and by RAW it should be compatible with Unseen Seer's damage bonus.

Troacctid
2019-01-01, 12:39 PM
Sure, Tome of Battle has a stance for that. The "shadow hands" gloves variant of crown of the white raven will let you use the stance.
Yeah, but only if you already have another Shadow Hand maneuver.

TalonOfAnathrax
2019-01-01, 01:13 PM
So I would have to retrain a feat and get an item giving me assassin's stance?
Damn. My feats are all spoken for.
Can't I get the first maneuver through an item too somehow?

EDIT: I don't have my books on hand. Sorry is this is a stupid question that the item description resolves.

Arkain
2019-01-01, 02:24 PM
As an Unseen Seer there is always the Ranger spell Hunter's Eye, which gives you sneak attack and additional dice. Probably a bit late for that though.

Troacctid
2019-01-01, 02:35 PM
As an Unseen Seer there is always the Ranger spell Hunter's Eye, which gives you sneak attack and additional dice. Probably a bit late for that though.
It's a good spell, but it won't allow you to take advantage of the unseen seer's sneak attack bonus.

gkathellar
2019-01-01, 03:03 PM
It's a good spell, but it won't allow you to take advantage of the unseen seer's sneak attack bonus.

So this is tricky. In general, I'd agree, but here's the text of Damage Boost:


At 1st level, the extra damage you deal with your sneak attack, skirmish, or sudden strike ability increases by 1d6. If you have more than one of these abilities, only one ability gains this increase (choose each time you gain this benefit).

Your sneak attack, skirmish, or sudden strike damage increases by another 1d6 at 4th level, 7th level, and 10th level.

Emphasis mine. If Damage Boost read something like, "if you already had sneak attack, skirmish, or sudden strike, the damage boost from that ability increases by 1d6," it very clearly wouldn't work. But Damage Boost is weird because its text states it simply increases the damage from one of those abilities, rather than actually increasing the potency of the ability on the character sheet.

So RAW, does that work? Well ... maybe. A look at Hunter's Eye may be telling. Here's the text:


Your vision blurs for a moment.
When it clears, you can see through your enemies' skin to spot their arteries, organs, and other vulnerable points.
Your slice into a foe with uncanny precision, allowing you to strike a foe's vulnerable points and deal extra damage.
This spell grants you the sneak attack ability.
You deal an extra 1d6 points of damage per three caster levels.
If you already have the sneak attack ability, this damage stacks with it.

So, the spell does specifically grant you the sneak attack ability, which means that Damage Boost would seem to increase the damage from that ability, even if it's temporary.

But that's dependent on a legalistic interpretation of Damage Boost, and when we try to apply that same reading to Hunter's Eye things get sort of asinine: the spell's text, after all, never specifically states that the Hunter's Eye bonus damage is itself, sneak attack damage. The implication that follows is that Hunter's Eye grants you Sneak Attack +0d6 in addition to a miscellaneous non-sneak attack damage boost, and at this point we can (a) contemplate whether Damage Boost can increase the damage dealt by an ability that deals no damage, or (b) throw down our hats in disgust.

So in conclusion: the combo probably doesn't work if we take an intuitive reading of both texts. It definitely does work if we take a strict reading of Damage Boost and a common-sense reading of Hunter's Eye. And if we take a strict reading of Hunter's Eye the game may or may not implode. So this seems like the sort of thing to run by one's DM.

(My personal recommendation would be that you're already an ScM, so it's not like +2d6 sneak attack is going to shatter the game.)