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Morty
2007-09-23, 12:21 PM
Well, the title says it all. I've recently read main rulebook for 2ed after being interested for two years, rolled my character and I'm probably going to play soon enough. I like the system, though I've yet to see if it's better than D&D. It's certainly low-magic and gritty, which I like. Magic is way better than in D&D- it's not so easy, realiable and dependable, and wizards aren't broken. Injury system looks interesting, and much more complex than this in D&D. However, weapon system is way too simple and unbalanced and I'm not too fond of rolling for starting careers.
Overall, the system looks preety good, but I haven't seen much support for it on this board. Anyone played it? If so, what are your experiences, opinions, etc? Also, which edition do you consider better? I've heard mixed opinions so far, but overall gaming community -or at least the part I know- seems to lean on second edition. I haven't really read 1ed rulebook, even though I have it, so I don't know myself.

Attilargh
2007-09-23, 12:38 PM
Never played, but veeeery interested. The system seems pretty simple and robust, with about just the right amount of attention to detail for me. I really like how fights can get real ugly real fast. Not too fond of rolling for careers either, but it does have a kind of grittiness to it. The world of Warhammer is a pretty interesting one, even though Status Quo is God to an agonizing degree and I've given up the miniature game. Might be fun to play this in the Blood Bowl world, now that I think of it.

Out of curiousity, how are the weapons unbalanced?

Sulecrist
2007-09-23, 12:44 PM
It's amazing. One semester, I spent forty hours a week playing it (that's not an exaggeration.) Expanded weapon rules are in the Old World Armoury, but you don't really need them. You don't actually need to randomize starting careers either, but if the GM is new to the Warhammer world it can certainly be helpful.

Morty
2007-09-23, 12:48 PM
Out of curiousity, how are the weapons unbalanced?

Well, weapons in WFRPG are very simple. In melee category you have one handed weapon or two handed weapon, and you decide what it represents -sword, mace, axe, hammer etc. There are also other, special weapons like rapiers or spears. And here's where problems begin. Spear is exactly the same as one-handed weapon -such as sword or mace- in every respect except that it's quick, which means it's harder to dodge or block. There's also halberd, which is cheaper and easier to get than two handed weapon, but it can be used as two-hander or spear, whatever suits you at the moment. Maybe I'm missing something.


You don't actually need to randomize starting careers either, but if the GM is new to the Warhammer world it can certainly be helpful.

I was under the impression it's a default option.

Pauwel
2007-09-23, 01:15 PM
Well, weapons in WFRPG are very simple. In melee category you have one handed weapon or two handed weapon, and you decide what it represents -sword, mace, axe, hammer etc. There are also other, special weapons like rapiers or spears. And here's where problems begin. Spear is exactly the same as one-handed weapon -such as sword or mace- in every respect except that it's quick, which means it's harder to dodge or block. There's also halberd, which is cheaper and easier to get than two handed weapon, but it can be used as two-hander or spear, whatever suits you at the moment. Maybe I'm missing something.

The reason the weapons are unbalanced is because it's more realistic that way. That's what they claim, at least; I wouldn't know, I've never fought with actual medieval weapons.
But no, you aren't missing anything. They're supposed to be unbalanced.

About rolling for careers, I agree that it's a bit silly. Why roll for careers if you don't roll for race?
What we do in the game I'm currently playing in, is that we roll for race and choose the career. I'm not the GM, but if I were I'd have them roll for social class as well.

Spiryt
2007-09-23, 01:23 PM
The reason the weapons are unbalanced is because it's more realistic that way. That's what they claim, at least; I wouldn't know, I've never fought with actual medieval weapons.
But no, you aren't missing anything. They're supposed to be unbalanced.


Well, one weapon being more powerful than another - it has nothing to do with realism. One weapon is just different than another.

Bow is just a different weapon than M-16. While of course M -16 is superiousr from 666 reason, you can't tell the same about halberd and two handed sword.

They're completely different, and making halberd just better is silly.

Even in D&D it's resolved better, and nobody is talking about realism in D&D :smalltongue:

Pauwel
2007-09-23, 02:00 PM
Well, one weapon being more powerful than another - it has nothing to do with realism. One weapon is just different than another.

Bow is just a different weapon than M-16. While of course M -16 is superiousr from 666 reason, you can't tell the same about halberd and two handed sword.

They're completely different, and making halberd just better is silly.

Even in D&D it's resolved better, and nobody is talking about realism in D&D :smalltongue:

Well, it's not like the halberd just has a larger damage bonus than the longsword and they're identical besides that. The hand weapon is one-handed, halberd is not, halberd isn't as common, etc. They do, in fact, have the same damage bonus; the halberd is just harder to parry.

Emrylon
2007-09-23, 03:43 PM
With the whole career thing I prefer how they did it in first edition. It was still random class but they were split into catergories like rouge, fighter, scholor (I think) and something else. So if you rolled up good stats for a caster you wouldn't end up as a gatekeeper or whatever. I still prefer choosing the career but that way is a bit better than second.

horseboy
2007-09-23, 03:56 PM
It comes up probably the second most common system talked about here. Unfortunately, that's probably like 6% of the time. (Number pulled from handy dandy ether)

Yeah, nothing like playing a slave aspiring to rat catcher.

Kiero
2007-09-23, 04:40 PM
Played 1st edition for a while about ten years ago. I didn't loathe randomness in chargen quite as much back then as I do now, but I remember lots of decidedly un-heroic exploits.

Wouldn't play it again, percentiles have an annoying habit of reducing even ostensibly competent characters into bumbling imbeciles.

bosssmiley
2007-09-23, 04:49 PM
M0rt mate, I hope you will grow to love WFRP as much as I did.

Expect a *wildly* different play experience to the high-fantasy of D&D though. You are playing out-of-their-depth scum of the earth who (ideally) have the life expectancy of mayflies. Expect to be sneered at and beaten up by inbred toffs, bitten by diseased rats, have all your money stolen, be infected with colourful and horrific diseases, contract a characterful insanity, and ultimately die choking on your own blood in a sewer having been gutted by a feral ratman, hungry goblin or filthy cultist.

WFRP is basically "Cthulhu" with added gallows humour. That said, if you have a GM who knows the source material (the novels and old edition adventure, rather than the 'crash bang' WFB stuff) you're in for some of the best gaming you've ever had. :smallcool:

Prustan
2007-09-24, 12:33 AM
Got the first edition book myself, and wasn't aware of the second until I was looking into playing a PbP game (the books were FAR too expensive, and too hard to get a hold of). I read one comparison of the two editions, which was summed up like this - get the 2nd Edition for the rules, and the 1st Edition for the setting.

starwoof
2007-09-24, 02:04 AM
M0rt mate, I hope you will grow to love WFRP as much as I did.

Expect a *wildly* different play experience to the high-fantasy of D&D though. You are playing out-of-their-depth scum of the earth who (ideally) have the life expectancy of mayflies. Expect to be sneered at and beaten up by inbred toffs, bitten by diseased rats, have all your money stolen, be infected with colourful and horrific diseases, contract a characterful insanity, and ultimately die choking on your own blood in a sewer having been gutted by a feral ratman, hungry goblin or filthy cultist.

WFRP is basically "Cthulhu" with added gallows humour. That said, if you have a GM who knows the source material (the novels and old edition adventure, rather than the 'crash bang' WFB stuff) you're in for some of the best gaming you've ever had. :smallcool:
Life sucks, then you're horribly mutilated.

As a man who plays the table top game it sounds amazingly fun, its a pity nobody in my region would want to play a game where you die in the worst way imaginable and enjoy it as much as I.

Leon
2007-09-24, 07:07 AM
There's also halberd, which is cheaper and easier to get than two handed weapon, but it can be used as two-hander or spear, whatever suits you at the moment. Maybe I'm missing something.


Halberds a bit of a odd bird, this came up recently at the game i play in - we ended up just letting it slide as no one had any intention of getting one at anyrate only 2 of us use great weapons (Axe and Pick) and we started with those, everyone else uses a shield


Im having a blast in the game that im in.
since we had some people who had never played before they rolled for the starting carreers etc while those of us who knew what to do had free range at the discresion of the GM
We're just in the throes of changing careers now with a Mercenary (ex Bounty hunter), Veteran (ex Kossar), Initiate of Sigmar, Valet, Shield Breaker (ex miner)


the combat system is a great part of the game - every hit, miss, dodge and parry counts. where goblins will be a threat no matter what you do or there is a skill called consume alcohol

Previous campagin i was in: my Woodsman killed a river troll with a Torch, thats a heck of a highlight (34 pts of fire damage)

Tengu
2007-09-24, 08:02 AM
M0rt mate, I hope you will grow to love WFRP as much as I did.

Expect a *wildly* different play experience to the high-fantasy of D&D though. You are playing out-of-their-depth scum of the earth who (ideally) have the life expectancy of mayflies. Expect to be sneered at and beaten up by inbred toffs, bitten by diseased rats, have all your money stolen, be infected with colourful and horrific diseases, contract a characterful insanity, and ultimately die choking on your own blood in a sewer having been gutted by a feral ratman, hungry goblin or filthy cultist.

WFRP is basically "Cthulhu" with added gallows humour. That said, if you have a GM who knows the source material (the novels and old edition adventure, rather than the 'crash bang' WFB stuff) you're in for some of the best gaming you've ever had. :smallcool:

In Poland, WFRP used to be the "default RP system" for a long time before DND (up until DND 3.0 came out, basically, which happened much later here than in the US) - therefore, most roleplayers here are familiar with the setting. However, this game is rarely played as a super-gritty world of disease-ridden barely moving cadavers instead of villagers and wide smiles full of rotten teeth - it is grittier than DND (though basically everything is), but comparing it to Cthulhu would be a bit of a stretch. Well, some people run games where you consider yourself lucky if you survive, much less gain any loot or complete your goals - but I'm not a fan of those.

Morty
2007-09-24, 08:08 AM
I read one comparison of the two editions, which was summed up like this - get the 2nd Edition for the rules, and the 1st Edition for the setting.

That's an opinion I've been hearing quite often.

Good to know people were enjoying it. Even though I enjoy D&D, I'm looking forward to playing something more gritty and non-heroic than that, where PCs are common folk, not someone blatantly over average, and where there is a chance of dying from crossbow bolt and wizards aren't world-shaking Elminsters. Though maybe getting killed by diseased rat is a bit of stretch. And I've heard that WFRPG can be much more heroic than it is claimed.
My main beef with random career rolling is that it not only limits player's options, but can also spawn really weird parties- like if one player will roll apprentice wizard, other will roll Cossack and two others will roll noblesman and rat-catcher. Those are just examples, but it can very well happen.

banjo1985
2007-09-24, 08:32 AM
We're playing one of these campaigns at the minute, and we've played one or two in the past. I would say that the system is solid but unspectacular, it does a better job at magic than DnD, and the character progression is interesting if a bit restrictive.

I've never had an interest in the Warhammer setting, so I can't say I'm blown away by the background storyline or setting. It's a fun game though and the system is quite similar to Call of Cthulhu, which means that as new characters you'll be failing at most of the things you try to do at leats 1/2 of the time.

Tengu
2007-09-24, 09:09 AM
As an old saying me and my pals use goes:
WFRP teaches you that 40% is actually a lot. Fallout teaches you that 75% is actually abysmally small.

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-24, 09:33 AM
I and my buddies played 1st edition WFRP for a long time back in the day. DnD was verboten at the time, so we found alternatives, one of them being Warhammer. Life is hard and cheap in Warhammer, but we had a blast with the game, and played the "Enemy Within" campaign to the end.

I like 2e's magic, it's a lot more dangerous and unpredictable than it was in 1e. The career options was a bit better in 1e, but I still like 2e's. 2e at least balanced out a lot of starting careers so that there's no "bad career". (My favorite will always remain Rat Catcher).

Rolling for careers is default option, correct. However, we've never rolled for a career, in either 1st or 2nd ed. The roll is fine if you don't know what you want to play, but it's annoying if you have a character in mind after rolling stats and then get something totally out of character for that. So pick the career you want to start with and you'll be happier. Also, take a look at some you might not normally look at. Many are better than they would seem at first glance.

I'm hoping for a whole new WFRP campaign in one of my groups someday soon. It's a great system and a great setting.