Making a character and wondering if what i am thinking of doing is wise.

[ngilop]

Hey guys, I am have a warblade and am thinking of (if my character survives that long) dipping swordsage at level 6.


I mostly want to do this to pick up some setting sun maneuvers and a couple shadowhand ones.

I plan on doing this again at maybe 10th or 12th level (getting a 2nd swordsage level)


I am just wondering if that plan is smart or if I am gimping myself beyond repair?

[Eldariel]

Tome of Battle classes are nice in that they multiclass very well. So no, this is more than fine. However, you might want to think about the breakpoints. ECL9 (Warblade 8/Swordsage 1) would give you 3rd level Swordsage maneuvers, ECL5 (Warblade 4/Swordsage 1) would grant you 2nd level ones. Generally, I'd recommend picking one or the other. And yeah, the second is all fine since it adds to both your initiator levels. You give up some end-game abilities and push them back a bit but make up for that with versatility. Both are fine choices and this is one of the reasons why ToB is so good.

[BowStreetRunner]

I'd agree that Warblade/Swordsage is a workable combination. The only downside is that it's a bit MAD, as only Cha is truly a dump stat for such a build. Generally, delaying Warblade progression for a couple levels can help avoid getting stuck with sub-par maneuver/stance selections along the way.

Alternately, you could use Mo9 instead. Although it's a pretty rigid build if you try to do it early.


Master of Nine requires one maneuver each from 6 disciplines - Warblade already gets 5 disciplines and a maneuver from a 6th can be acquired with Martial Study.
It usually takes 7 levels of Warblade to pick up the skill prerequisites.
A human Warblade can pick up all 5 feat prerequisites as early as level 6 with the racial and class bonus feats.


Master of 9 can then pick up maneuvers from any discipline.

[Jay R]

The question isn't whether it's smart. Ask yourself if it will be fun.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Eldariel has the right of it in this. You might want to rethink where you're putting the break-points and consider grabbing one of the prestige classes that fits your needs if you can but otherwise, yeah, it's a fine way to go.

[Mike Miller]

Tome of Battle classes are nice in that they multiclass very well. So no, this is more than fine. However, you might want to think about the breakpoints. ECL9 (Warblade 8/Swordsage 1) would give you 3rd level Swordsage maneuvers, ECL5 (Warblade 4/Swordsage 1) would grant you 2nd level ones. Generally, I'd recommend picking one or the other. And yeah, the second is all fine since it adds to both your initiator levels. You give up some end-game abilities and push them back a bit but make up for that with versatility. Both are fine choices and this is one of the reasons why ToB is so good.

They are both full initiator classes, so wouldn't Warblade 8/Swordsage 1 give 5th level SS maneuvers and Warblade 4/Swordsage 1 give 3rd level SS maneuvers?

[Particle_Man]

Nah it is like cleric and wizard both being casters, they don’t fully stack (but do half-stack, which is nice). Initiator prestige classes stack which is a point in master of nine’s favour.

[ngilop]

The question isn't whether it's smart. Ask yourself if it will be fun.

I understand that. But, if I un intentionally made my character worse off and made a close to worthless character, it is no longer fun.


I don't really care to make optimized characters, but, I do want to play effective and playable ones.


I wanted to go swordsage because 90% of all maunevers are just 'do extra damage' and half the ones that aren't are in the swordsage I am looking at the one that allows me to teleport a shrt distance, go invisible and throw things around.

[ngilop]

Ok its been a while but I am back on this again..


what should the swordsage maneuvers be that I take if I do the cut off at

warblade 5/ swordsage 1



and

warblade 7/sword sage 1

[BowStreetRunner]

Keep in mind that odd levels aren't helpful when doing multi-class martial adepts. You get 1/2 level from your other class, rounding down. So warblade 5 / swordsage 1 would be warblade IL 5 / swordsage IL 3. But warblade 4 / swordsage 2 would be warblade IL 5 / swordsage IL 4. That's 1 higher IL on the swordsage side. Swordsage 2 also picks up another stance.

Now Diamond Mind, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw maneuvers you can pick up from either warblade or swordsage. Your Initiator Level from warblade is much higher, so you are going to want to get those from warblade and focus your swordsage maneuvers on Desert Wind, Setting Sun, and Shadow Hand disciplines.

Also, some DMs require that your first stance is a 1st level one even if your IL is higher. This is considered a RAW interpretation of the class description by many. If your DM does not require this that opens up some higher level stances right away.

[ngilop]

Keep in mind that odd levels aren't helpful when doing multi-class martial adepts. You get 1/2 level from your other class, rounding down. So warblade 5 / swordsage 1 would be warblade IL 5 / swordsage IL 3. But warblade 4 / swordsage 2 would be warblade IL 5 / swordsage IL 4. That's 1 higher IL on the swordsage side. Swordsage 2 also picks up another stance.

Now Diamond Mind, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw maneuvers you can pick up from either warblade or swordsage. Your Initiator Level from warblade is much higher, so you are going to want to get those from warblade and focus your swordsage maneuvers on Desert Wind, Setting Sun, and Shadow Hand disciplines.

Also, some DMs require that your first stance is a 1st level one even if your IL is higher. This is considered a RAW interpretation of the class description by many. If your DM does not require this that opens up some higher level stances right away.

I am planning on taking a 2nd sworssage level later one, just curious as to which nets me a better selection

right now im thinking of the following

Burning blade, Mighty Throw, CLoak of Deception, Shadow Jaunt, and Mountain Hammer.. no sure what else I should pick up

[BowStreetRunner]

I am planning on taking a 2nd sworssage level later one, just curious as to which nets me a better selection

right now im thinking of the following

Burning blade, Mighty Throw, CLoak of Deception, Shadow Jaunt, and Mountain Hammer.. no sure what else I should pick upSwordsage maneuvers can be recovered by a full round action in which you do nothing else. Warblade maneuvers can be recovered by a swift action followed by a melee attack or a standard action to do nothing else (so make sure you took your move action first). Warblade has by far the superior recovery method for any maneuvers you wish to be able to use repeatedly in combat. So I would definitely take Mountain Hammer as a Warblade maneuver and not a Swordsage maneuver.

Burning Blade is one that you will want to pull off when making a full attack, to get the damage on every attack in the round. If you are not frequently making full attacks, it's only 1d6+IL damage on a single attack, likely only once per combat.

Burning Brand is a better option in my opinion. While it doesn't give you any extra damage it does accomplish two things that you may find yourself needing at some point. The extra 5 foot reach may give you the option to make a full attack when you couldn't otherwise - remember, you can take a 5 foot step too so if taking a 5 foot step and then adding 5 foot reach suddenly puts an enemy in range you don't have to waste a move action to get to them. Secondly, if you are running into DR from an opponent this changes your damage to energy damage for the round - so in that it serves a similar role to Mountain Hammer against opponents with DR. (The downside of course is it doesn't help against foes with fire resistance.)

I'll take a look at your other options later if I get a chance and no one else has chimed in. My kids are calling so I need to go.

[Kish]

If you're making a warblade/swordsage, I'm kind of surprised you're not going Master of Nine.

[ngilop]

If you're making a warblade/swordsage, I'm kind of surprised you're not going Master of Nine.

I am not. I want to focus on something other than taking dodge and unarmed whatsever it if called.


My plan is to get some sweet intimidation abilities in, and master of 9 requires me to spend too mnay feast that I will never use.