Rate/Improve my build: Dwarven Forge Cleric

[grumbaki]

Joined a D&D5 game. The party needed a cleric, though what I really enjoy is melee. So here is what I came up with. I can't change the build right now, but I can change the leveling plan.

Str (18) Dex (15) Con (17) Int (15) Wis (15) Cha (7)

And yes, I rolled really well.

Mountain Dwarf Cleric, Forge Domain (lvl 2)

Proficiencies
* Armor: Light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, shields
* Weapons: Simple weapons, battleaxe, handaxe, light hammer, and warhammer
* Tools: Smith Tools, Thieves Tools
* Languages: Common, Dwarven, Undercommon
* Saving Throws: Wisdom, Charisma
* Skills: Persuasion, and Religion
* Background Skills: Investigation and Perception
* Stonecunning: Whenever you make a History check related to the origin of stonework, you are considered proficient in the History skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check, instead of your normal proficiency bonus.
* Darkvision: 60'. Dim = Bright, Darkness = Dim
* Dwarven Resilience: Advantage on saving throws versus poison and resistance against poison damage

Equipment
* Holy Symbol Ring
* Warhammer +1 (via class ability)
* Plate
* Shield
* A Light crossbow and 20 bolts
* A priest’s pack
* Thieves Tools
* 15 GC

Forge Domain
1st Identify Searing Smite
3rd Heat Metal, Magic Weapon
5th Elemental Weapon, Protection from Energy
7th Fabricate, Wall of Fire
9th Animate Objects, Creation

Cantrips
* Mending
* Sacred Flame
* Spare the Dying

Level 1
* Healing Word
* Bless
* Cure Wounds
* Detect Magic

---------------

So she currently has HP22 AC20 +7 to hit and 1d8+5 damage. So at this level she can melee quite well. Here's the plan:

vl 4: Magic Initiate Wizard
* At-Will: Booming Blade (You make a single melee weapon attack against a creature you can see in range. If the attack hits, the target is surrounded by magical energy, and it can't willingly move or it takes 1d8 thunder damage. The spell ends after dealing damage or at the start of your next turn, whichever is sooner. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 thunder damage, and the moving damage becomes 2d8. Both damage dice increase by one again at levels 11 and 17)
* Prestidigitation
* 1/day Find Familiar (picking a bat, takes “Aid” action each turn giving her advantage on attack rolls)

Lvl 4: Advantage To Hit: +7 Damage: 2d8+5
Lvl 5: Advantage To Hit: +8 Damage: 3d8+5
Lvl 6: +1 AC (Forge Cleric)
Lvl 8: Advantage To Hit: +9 Damage: 4d8+6 (divine strike)
Lvl 14: Advantage To Hit: +10 Damage: 5d8+6
Lvl 17: Advantage To Hit: +11 Damage: 6d8+6

The idea being that unlike a fighter she will only get 1 attack a turn, but it will be very likely to hit and will deal fairly strong damage. With plate, shield and Cleric she will have AC21 (fairly tanky) and she can then focus her spells on healing and party buffs.


Does this build work? And what, if anything, could I do to make her into a better close combat warrior whose magic is reserved for healing and party buffs?

[Man_Over_Game]

Does this build work? And what, if anything, could I do to make her into a better close combat warrior whose magic is reserved for healing and party buffs?

It does work, but there's not much more you can do.

If a spell loadout doesn't work for your group at the time, change it on your next long rest.

Druid does provide a partial option, but realistically, that wouldn't make much sense due to the fact that the Forge cleric works with metal, and druids historically hate metal.

There aren't many other options to become a better support after that. War Caster could help you to maintain concentration and to be a better tank, but that's about it.

I would replace the Bat with the Owl. I don't think the Bat has flyby, but the Owl does.

[Nhorianscum]

Seems solid and well thought out.

I'd personally dip for BB and find familiar (1 level earlyish, possibly 1 late ) if the game isn't going to spend a lot of time at 20 and the table is multi freindly. Going to 16 wis/18 con at cleric 4 seems huge here. Delaying progression by a level isn't ideal on forge though.

[grumbaki]

BB? What’s that?

[Azgeroth]

well, if you can swap your domain to war, you get wis mod per day extra attack as a bonus action, which is going to help your damage output quite a bit, plus war gods blessing will help the party dish out more damage aswell.

given your only a cleric for the healing, i don't think you will miss too much by going war instead, yes you loose the sweet abilities and extra spells, but given you want melee focus, war is the way to go.

if you can't do that, your kinda buggered.. at least in terms of increasing damage output, shield master/sentinel will help with your survivability tankiness, and offer a little more damage in terms of more frequent AoOs, but otherwise, at higher levels, your better off spell blasting for damage.

remember, the most efficient way to heal in 5e is minimal healing, and MOAR DAMAGE! also, temp hp for allies, so inspiring leader feat is also a great pick.

[Azgeroth]

BB? What’s that?

Booming Blade (cantrip)

[bid]

well, if you can swap your domain to war, you get wis mod per day extra attack as a bonus action
Well, you can't use that feature with BB, so it's not a good fit for this build.

[Corran]

These are great stats, but I don't think their allocation is good, and that's because I don't think weapon wielding clerics are any good (so to answer your first question, yeah, it can work, but I don't think it's great, and depending on how the other characters are built and played or on how much the DM will buff you with magic items -that would probably be better at the hands of another character, at least as far as weapons go- there is a chance that you will feel your character lagging behind). As far as I understand, you have not yet hit level 4, right? If so, I wouldn't take magic initiate. I think your ASI's will be far better spent to boost your concentration and your wisdom score. So I would go with wacaster, +1wis & dex, resilient con. A high str score is not terribly important (particularly since you are a dwarf so that means that you can wear heavy armor without any speed penalties), but maybe you could make some good use of it by grappling enemies (and keeping them inside spirit guradians or wall of fire). Not terribly effective for someone with one attack, but still, clerics wont miss out all that much by choosing to use their action to do sth else other than using a cantrip or taking the attack action. If you decide to go with magic initiate, at least grab green flame blade. It is more reliable than booming blade (but you can keep booming blade for OA's and a few other occasions, such as when you 'pin' someone inside a harmful zone -spirit guardians/Wall of fire- and they try to escape).

[Ganymede]

It looks like you have a handle on how the rules work, so good job. Also, congrats on ensuring that your character grows more powerful as he levels up.

That said, what is your DM supposed to do with this mess? Where are your personality traits and other potential plot hooks?

[CTurbo]

I'm not gonna talk about the things I think you should have done differently since you can't change them, there is no point.

Moving forward, I'd probably take +1 Con and Wis at level 4, then take Warcaster at level 8. From there, if you're really committed to melee, I'd take Sentinel at 12. You can use Divine Strike on reaction attacks so they hit hard. I don't like planning so far ahead because you never know what you're going to want by level 16, but +2 would be my fallback option.

Forge Clerics are tough, but at mid to higher levels, using your action to attack with a weapon is rarely going to be your best option. I think Forge Clerics are best at being a traditional "battle" cleric staying on the frontlines with Spirit Guardians up buffing and healing the party.

Sentinel is an excellent feat for frontline clerics

[bid]

You can use Divine Strike on reaction attacks so they hit hard.
"Once on each of your turns ...".:smalleek:

[CTurbo]

"Once on each of your turns ...".:smalleek:

Huh. Funny how myself and both groups l play with have been getting that wrong for years.

Also funny how nobody else has ever corrected me on it the dozen or so times I've said it on here or enworld.

We always played it like sneak damage.

[Corran]

Huh. Funny how myself and both groups l play with have been getting that wrong for years.

Also funny how nobody else has ever corrected me on it the dozen or so times I've said it on here or enworld.

We always played it like sneak damage.
I knew but I didn't say anything, because I think this rule is dumb.::smallamused:

[Teaguethebean]

I'm pretty sure you shouldn't have 22 hp unless you rolled an 8 up on level up if you aren't rolling it should be 8+con at lv 1 but 5+con at every other level so I beleive you should have 19 hp

[Man_Over_Game]

I knew but I didn't say anything, because I think this rule is dumb.::smallamused:

It's an attempt to lower the melee combat effectiveness of Clerics vs. other options. Clerics should have to choose between casting spells OR attacking really hard. If they could do both, then they'd be stepping on the toes of the Paladin as a highly effective melee combatant.

Don't get me wrong, Clerics still are, but this minor modification is enough to set Paladins as the clearly better choice for a martial combat style, and makes melee attacks more of a niche pick for Clerics rather than the ideal.


Or rather, remove the limitation if you want, but still find a way to make everyone else better at physical combat.

A Cleric should never be better at combat than a Paladin. A Paladin should never be better at combat than a Fighter. A Fighter should never be better at melee combat than a Barbarian. Generally, the more specialized a class is, the more it needs to stand out in that category. And making Clerics better at melee combat than most other classes kinda breaks the system a bit.

[Wildarm]

Perhaps take Resilient(Con) to have solid concentration checks @ level 4 and focus on Spiritual Weapon and Spectral Guardians as your ways to increase damage. You are pretty tanky so wade into the thick of it and punish the enemies around you. You'll do far more damage with that approach compared to Booming blade(IMO). If possible(DM approval) swap your Str/Wis to get the 17 Str / 16 Wis. +1 Wis bonus is better than a +1 Str bonus on a cleric, even a melee one.

[ccjmk]

Honestly, I think you are good staying as a Cleric. You are much more than a healbot (specially since you are Forge and not Life cleric), so I'd probably swap Cure Wounds out for something else. Healing Word is bonkers, and that + Bless is enough support IMO, plus you can opt to give your +1 AC or +1 weapon to a party member where needed (before a big fight, giving that bonus to the barbarian or fighter or the party will probably yield lots more damage than on you, but for everyday its probably ok to use it on you). Detect Magic is overall solid, so I'd keep that. As cantrips, you have Mending and Spare the Living for support and shenanigans, so you are great. So just swap Cure Wounds for something else more aggresive, you have the right to have an offensive spell! If you want something offensive yet somehow supportive, Guiding Bolt is bonkers, imo. Great damage, and gives Advantage on the next attack against the target!

Again, I'd stay a cleric. 4to level you can choose: you want to be more martial? Up that STR to 20! Feel confortable on a more supportive role? Then 18 CON / 16 WIS is it! (Also, I'd probably swap those regardless of if you want to be more offensive or more supportive, with heavy armor & shield I feel like you don't need that much HP, you are pretty safe, and while +1 HP per level is cool, +1 to hit and DC on your spells is MUCH better)

Cleric is precisely the best class for being a middle ground between warrior and caster, the one, true original gish.

[Galadhrim]

The party needed a cleric, though what I really enjoy is melee. So here is what I came up with. I can't change the build right now, but I can change the leveling plan.

Str (18) Dex (15) Con (17) Int (15) Wis (15) Cha (7)

lvl 4: Magic Initiate Wizard
* At-Will: Booming Blade (You make a single melee weapon attack against a creature you can see in range. If the attack hits, the target is surrounded by magical energy, and it can't willingly move or it takes 1d8 thunder damage. The spell ends after dealing damage or at the start of your next turn, whichever is sooner. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 thunder damage, and the moving damage becomes 2d8. Both damage dice increase by one again at levels 11 and 17)
* Prestidigitation
* 1/day Find Familiar (picking a bat, takes “Aid” action each turn giving her advantage on attack rolls)

Lvl 4: Advantage To Hit: +7 Damage: 2d8+5
Lvl 5: Advantage To Hit: +8 Damage: 3d8+5
Lvl 6: +1 AC (Forge Cleric)
Lvl 8: Advantage To Hit: +9 Damage: 4d8+6 (divine strike)
Lvl 14: Advantage To Hit: +10 Damage: 5d8+6
Lvl 17: Advantage To Hit: +11 Damage: 6d8+6

The idea being that unlike a fighter she will only get 1 attack a turn, but it will be very likely to hit and will deal fairly strong damage. With plate, shield and Cleric she will have AC21 (fairly tanky) and she can then focus her spells on healing and party buffs.

Does this build work? And what, if anything, could I do to make her into a better close combat warrior whose magic is reserved for healing and party buffs?

This build works well as a close combat warrior. You don't have extra attack, but you are doing somewhat competitive, if slightly less damage, especially once you hit level 8 and pick up your divine strike. booming blade is a big part of your build.

Look back at the booming blade spell, I think you are adding an extra d8 to your damage. It only does 1d8 on move at level 4, not to the initial attack. At level 5 it adds 1d8 to your attack and 2d8 on move. So your level 5 should say Advantage to hit: +8 damage: 2d8+5 (additional 2d8 on move)

To complete your image (weapon attack, spells focusing on buffing), you need to decide what you are going to concentrate on. At early levels, that would most likely be Bless. However, you are going to struggle with your concentration in melee. Given how big a part of your build booming blade is, I agree with the poster above that suggested multiclassing (I would take one level of wizard given your beautiful int score) to get booming blade, prestidigitation, green flame blade as well as taking find familiar (and tons of other super useful level 1 wizard spells that can really buff your ability to wade into melee). On a cleric that loves to be in melee and is getting booming blade, I think warcaster is your best bet. Now your opportunity attacks are strong and your concentration is better greatly improved.

Playing this character, with your premise of loving melee, my progression would go:
Lvl 3: forge cleric 3
Lvl 4: forge cleric 3, wizard 1 (cantrips: booming blade, green flame blade, minor illusion/prestidigitation level 1 spells: find familiar, absorb elements, shield, expeditious retreat, longstrider, feather fall)
Lvl 5: forge cleric 4, wizard 1: ASI warcaster
Lvl 9: forge cleric 8, wizard 1: ASI +1 con, +1 wis

This will slow your cleric spell progression by one level, but given that you don't really care about spirit guardians, that seems ok, and your spell slots will continue to progress at full caster rate.

[grumbaki]

Thank you all for the replies! Galadhrim I think I’ll steal that build

Question though: is wizard 2 worth it for the casting tradition? If so which to pick?

[ccjmk]

Question though: is wizard 2 worth it for the casting tradition? If so which to pick?

I wouldn't grab any wizard levels before the ASI, but wizard 2 for War Magic is pretty sweet. At-will mini Shield (+2 AC as reaction) or +4 to saving throws is PRETTY F*UCKING GOOD, imo, if you want to be in the middle of the grinder, plus your INT modifier as bonus to initiative.

[Galadhrim]

Thank you all for the replies! Galadhrim I think I’ll steal that build

Question though: is wizard 2 worth it for the casting tradition? If so which to pick?

If you go for a second level to get a casting tradition, I would go for either War Mage or Divination. The restriction on only casting cantrips after using arcane deflection probably won't effect you much. The reason I say divination is that your casting stat is relatively low. that doesn't hurt for buff spells, but if you are going to use any save spells at all, it helps to be able to ensure the roll made by the creature. It is also a very useful buff for your allies (one of your state goals) when you can give them a passing saving throw rather than them having to roll.

Whether either of those are worth losing a level of cleric or not is up to you. personally I think you are going to want to get to higher level spells, and the way to do that is to push your cleric level. You get some really nifty domain spells with Forge.

[Petrocorus]

I support the Resilient or / and WarCaster. You'll need to be able to keep you concentration in melee.
Though rounding up you Con and Wis should go first.

I also suggest Word of Radiance instead of Spare the Dying. You'll probably need to use Healing Word in most of situations anyway, so the dropped one can keep fighting. Ask your DM if you can change.
In many situation Word of Radiance will give you more damage than a weapon attack, spread over several target, so not always relevant tactically, it depends on the party composition.

I'd also keep my Blessing of the Forge on my armor at this level. Do you roll for HP?
I'd swap Cure Wounds for Shield of Faith in the prepared spells. More option for more situations. Unless your party has already a lot of tanks.