Let's... Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis (Crime Island Adventure) [Archive]

LaZodiac

2019-01-04, 08:27 AM

https://vgy.me/yvraqq.png

It was an age where strength ruled.

Welcome to the next Zodi LP, wherein we tackle the patreon requested and winner of the last poll, Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis. An excerpt of the Ogre Battle saga, a sadly long dead RPG series that is honestly rather interesting. This is more of a tactics RPG in the same line as Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, though unlike that game it's got permadeath and more of an overarching story than just tons of missions to go out on. This is a relatively obscure game, and probably my favorite in the Ogre Battle series in general, so I hope you all like it.

As with all my LPs, we'll be updating every Monday and Friday...on the exception that the upcoming Monday will be skipped to get time for people to vote for things, because this game does have some degree of viewer participation! Gotta vote for stuff, which I'll go more indepthly into after the video link. Suffice it to say, even though this is a Game Boy Advance game, it's pretty complex. Also of note, this'll be my first time doing a voiced LP in like ten years, so please be patient with me as I blather endlessly about garbage. Also note this IS a tactics RPG, so videos may be longer than my typical 25 minutes. With all that said and done, let's begin...episode Zero.

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre Knight of Lodis [0] An Introduction to Ogre (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXypJJzPV2o)

Video Length: 7:59

We're starting this off with a non gameplay video, so we can set about naming our protagonist and choosing some stuff for him via committee. But I like to think this small little intro is a good way to wet your palette, so to speak, with regards to what'll come next. We are a fresh faced, black haired youth who has just recently joined a noble family of some sort, the Loehar's, and has going off to war on a inconsequential, let vitally important, little island with his buddy Rictor. He is of course nervous and scared in that way where you're obviously trying not to be, and before our boat arrives we meet an aged wise woman who tells our fortune. The fortune will determine a good deal of things, which I'll talk about AFTER we've all made our decisions.

With that in mind, here's how we're going to do it. Since the six fates we can choose for our protagonista here are quite lengthy, I'm going to just list all the choices and YOU can post the ones you vote for, and I'll compile that all manually. As well, you can just throw out birthdays and I'll decide which one to use based on arbitrary reasoning. As for his name, my supports at Patreon have given me some good names for us to vote for, so we'll be doing that the traditional Straw Poll way. So without further ado...

Name This Boy! (https://www.strawpoll.me/17165981)

Choose His Fate!:
Bear Which Burden
* Resolve
* Truth
* Sacrifice
* Affection

Walk Which Path
* Belief
* Freedom
* Wealth
* Longevity

Design Which Plan
* Strife
* Wisdom
* Hatred
* Prosperity

Swear Which Oath
* Purity
* Revenge
* Victory
* Fruition

Share Which Vision
* Sadness
* Mercy
* Bliss
* Terror

Shape Which Future
* Glory
* Peace
* Change
* Control

So yeah. That's a bit of a short one today, but it's all in service of greater participation. It's the Ogre Battle tradition, one I'll not shy away from. Hope you're all ready for a hell of a boat trip, when all is said and done.

------

That said, if you're still chomping at the bit for video'd content, special shout out to DataNinka for going through effectively my entire Phantom Hourglass LP to find where the final treasure map was. Prepare for Bonus Video~

Zodi Plays: The Legend of Zelda Phantom Hourglass [#B] Last Stuff (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu5H6JCZBK0)

As well, please note that the poll for the Zodi Game Awards 2018 has concluded. Furi is our winner, and in the coming days I'll be asking the patrons which character is their favorite from that so we can all vote on who gets the cool reward art!

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-04, 09:39 AM

Woo tactics game!

So hey everyone, I've been lurking these LPs on and off, but I figure it's about time I stepped out of the shadows and actually posted in the thread. Really looking forward to seeing some Ogre Battle; I never knew about it when it was new. I'm also partway through my own replay of War of the Lions, so it'll be nice to watch something different.

Looks like the default birthday 15th February? That's my birthday in real life! Well, time to pick some fortunes...

Bear Which Burden
* Truth

Walk Which Path
* Freedom

Design Which Plan
* Wisdom

Swear Which Oath
* Victory

Share Which Vision
* Sadness

Shape Which Future
* Peace

LaZodiac

2019-01-04, 09:58 AM

DataNinja

2019-01-04, 12:52 PM

And with time, will come a pithy way to introduce every video and distinguish it as your own. :smallwink:

"Well-dressed Young Man", "Dark-Haired Knight"... I'm loving these you-don't-know-their-name-yet/they-aren't-important-enough-to-have-one names already. :smallamused:

Well, as for Birthdays, mine's December 15th. And then fate picking. Let's see what the fortune cookie has to say.
>truth
>longevity
>wisdom
>victory
>mercy
>peace

(I don't have a type... Honest)

***

Re: Phantom Hourglass Beedle. No card, just a 50% Discount for VIP-ness. I do enjoy that they took the backwardness of Beedle giving the best card first, and the pun of the complimentary card, to the logical conclusion.

Knight9910

2019-01-04, 01:06 PM

Bear Which Burden
* Truth

Walk Which Path
* Longevity

Design Which Plan
* Wisdom

Swear Which Oath
* Fruition
I thought about saying victory, but having your goals met is more important. It's possible to "win" without actually achieving your aims, and to achieve your aims without "winning."

Share Which Vision
* Mercy

Shape Which Future
* Glory

HalfTangible

2019-01-04, 06:07 PM

Bear Which Burden
* Truth

Walk Which Path
* Belief

Design Which Plan
* Wisdom

Swear Which Oath
* Fruition

Share Which Vision
* Mercy

Shape Which Future
* Glory

Qwertystop

2019-01-04, 07:45 PM

Ah, a strategy game. I didn't get into these until long after the GBA was done.

Bear Which Burden
* Resolve
* Truth

Walk Which Path
* Belief
* Freedom
* Wealth
* Longevity

Design Which Plan
* Strife
* Wisdom
* Hatred
* Prosperity

Swear Which Oath
* Purity

Share Which Vision
* Sadness

Shape Which Future
* Change

Kato

2019-01-04, 08:18 PM

I've played a bit of the / a TO game for the SNES (or was it PS1?) But I didn't get too far. But I really like the FFTA games which I assume are somewhat similar, mechanics wise....
I might stick around for this one so I'll do more than just ghosting... No, wait, what is the term again? Whatever. My not magic ball says...

Bear Which Burden
* Affection

Walk Which Path
* Freedom

Design Which Plan
* Wisdom

Swear Which Oath
* Fruition

Share Which Vision
* Mercy

Shape Which Future
* Peace

DataNinja

2019-01-04, 09:26 PM

I might stick around for this one so I'll do more than just ghosting... No, wait, what is the term again? Whatever.Lurking? Is that the one that you're thinking of?

Coidzor

2019-01-05, 05:13 AM

Bear Which Burden
* Resolve

Walk Which Path
* Freedom

Design Which Plan
* Prosperity

Swear Which Oath
* Victory

Share Which Vision
* Mercy

Shape Which Future
* Peace

Kato

2019-01-05, 07:00 AM

Lurking? Is that the one that you're thinking of?

Yes, thank you, but I was mostly joking (and sleepy). I wonder if I should think about my picks again but... As long as we don't end up being CE I don't care.

LaZodiac

2019-01-05, 08:26 AM

Yes, thank you, but I was mostly joking (and sleepy). I wonder if I should think about my picks again but... As long as we don't end up being CE I don't care.

I can safely say, based on how this vote is turning out, we won't be Chaotic. Whether we'll be evil or not...well that's a fun question that we'll determine at a later date.

I'll explain more indepthly but Ogre Battle only has Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic alignments. Being good or evil is determined by our actions, and there will be another vote In The Future that pretty definitively determines if we're evil or not. That's all I'll say.

Also it's really interesting to look at people's votes for the six fates. I'm definitely not silently judging you all for what you're choosing. And if I am it's mostly good since y'all are picking the good boy options.

Kato

2019-01-05, 10:48 AM

Also it's really interesting to look at people's votes for the six fates. I'm definitely not silently judging you all for what you're choosing. And if I am it's mostly good since y'all are picking the good boy options.

I was half considering putting in what I took as the worst fates and see if anyone called me out on it but.....

Also, to correct my earlier statement: I played through the very first (US) Ogre Battle for SNES once, but this one had a very different mechanic.... I think now I must have dabbled into Ogre Battle 64 (obviously, neither for the SNES nor the PS1 because it has 64 in the title it's definitely a Dreamcast game) going by screen shots.

And the actual Tactics Ogre looks... like the used the exact same engine as for FFT and only wrote a new plot. Just going by screen shots, so there might be more of a difference.

LaZodiac

2019-01-05, 11:09 AM

I was half considering putting in what I took as the worst fates and see if anyone called me out on it but.....

Also, to correct my earlier statement: I played through the very first (US) Ogre Battle for SNES once, but this one had a very different mechanic.... I think now I must have dabbled into Ogre Battle 64 (obviously, neither for the SNES nor the PS1 because it has 64 in the title it's definitely a Dreamcast game) going by screen shots.

And the actual Tactics Ogre looks... like the used the exact same engine as for FFT and only wrote a new plot. Just going by screen shots, so there might be more of a difference.

I actually do not have the words to describe what an actual Ogre Battle game is like. They're honestly super weird, and...not great, from the looks of it. At the very least they're not for me.

The two Tactics Ogres are way more my speed, and...yeah Let Us Cling (the PS1 game that was original a SNES game before it was cancelled and ported to the PS1) is pretty close to Final Fantasy Tactics. The Tactics Ogre we'll playing, Knight of Lodis, is in no way coincidentally, similar to FFTA...to degrees, at least.

tonberrian

2019-01-05, 11:17 AM

I played the heck out of Knight of Lodis in GBA times. I take it we're not going to something silly like snapping a glitched-out super high stat character, right? The game doesn't like that.

LaZodiac

2019-01-05, 11:21 AM

I played the heck out of Knight of Lodis in GBA times. I take it we're not going to something silly like snapping a glitched-out super high stat character, right? The game doesn't like that.

I've never played this game before, though I've seen it played! So...I can't promise we'll get anything super ridiculous or anything. But I'll do my best to show off as much of the game as I can.

DataNinja

2019-01-05, 12:17 PM

Also it's really interesting to look at people's votes for the six fates. I'm definitely not silently judging you all for what you're choosing. And if I am it's mostly good since y'all are picking the good boy options.
I tend to mostly play Paladins or the like in D&D-esque systems, so, that probably has some degree of influence over my choices. :smalltongue:

LaZodiac

2019-01-09, 08:31 AM

Oh hey, time for...a sand-which. eeehehehe.

A Taste Of: Pharaonic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X7aZIVtsxs)

Video Length: 18:36

Pharaonic, a dark souls style 2D game with an ancient Egyptian paint job! It's uh...bad. I try to be less harsh on it in video but no it's um....not good. It has some interesting ideas, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired and the animation is not even approaching acceptable! It's also suuuuper ugly holy ****. It's crazy how not good the models for people look in this. The environments look nice though.

Also ISHTAR IS NOT AN EGYPTIAN GOD!

------

More importantly, it's time for an update on polls! The six fates and the name of our plucky dark haired hero have been chosen! So Friday will begin the LP proper, as we dive into the adventures of GASTON, the knight of lodis.

As well, I've received wordwordwords from the patrons and thus now have a list of characters to vote on for Best Furi Character, so we know who gets to receive the 2018 Zodi Game Awards trophy.

Please vote for that here! (https://www.strawpoll.me/17197440)

DataNinja

2019-01-09, 02:20 PM

Oh dear. Are getting struck by the LPer curse? :smallamused:

I'm glad that I wasn't the only one struck at the name "Avaris".

Well, looks like the Irem Inscriptions aren't a real thing. So... that's good, at least. Also, apparently this pharaoh reincarnates like clockwork, basically every 14 or 15 years (if we average it all out). Impressive that this place is... basically ruled by a baby/toddler for, like, a third of its lifespan. And a teen for the rest. (I mean, I'm sure it's not averaging, but...)

Yeah, all in all, this game just looks kinda… clunky, from watching it. And not the best with the character models and stuff.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-09, 03:17 PM

Also ISHTAR IS NOT AN EGYPTIAN GOD!

To be fair, Sumer fell about 1,000 years before the Sea Peoples attacked Egypt, so in the context of the game, Ishtar might be seen in a similar way to how we view Norse deities today. So it's technically possible that those characters are worshipping Ishtar ironically because she's a cool ancient goddess. Right? :smallconfused:

Not having played Dark Souls, I don't have much to compare the actual game to, but it did look pretty shaky. Like, what was up with the boss' hitbox??

Impressive that this place is... basically ruled by a baby/toddler for, like, a third of its lifespan. And a teen for the rest.

I think the reincarnation thing might be a reference to the Sed festivals, which is basically a 30-year jubilee. The idea being that, if you've ruled for 30 years, it's time to step aside, let your kids take over, and enjoy your retirement as a living god. So I'm imagining that maybe the Red Pharaoh got himself reincarnated into an adult body each time, like an old pharaoh handing over power to their heir. Especially since it looks like human sacrifice is involved? So it's more like a 'reset button of eternal youth' rather than 'you're literally a baby again'.

tyckspoon

2019-01-09, 03:34 PM

------

More importantly, it's time for an update on polls! The six fates and the name of our plucky dark haired hero have been chosen! So Friday will begin the LP proper, as we dive into the adventures of GASTON, the knight of lodis.

Are you planning to use/show off the Deneb easter-egg? I expect you'll want to talk about it/show it at some point, but I know using it early on can make the early game much much easier.. and the Witch class needed for it gets obsolete later on, since it's one of the lower-level 'female caster' types.

HalfTangible

2019-01-09, 04:15 PM

DataNinja

2019-01-09, 04:35 PM

I think the reincarnation thing might be a reference to the Sed festivals, which is basically a 30-year jubilee. The idea being that, if you've ruled for 30 years, it's time to step aside, let your kids take over, and enjoy your retirement as a living god. So I'm imagining that maybe the Red Pharaoh got himself reincarnated into an adult body each time, like an old pharaoh handing over power to their heir. Especially since it looks like human sacrifice is involved? So it's more like a 'reset button of eternal youth' rather than 'you're literally a baby again'.
I guess that's fair. Though I think I like my way of thinking about it better, given that it seems like the sort of thing that would happen in that game. :smalltongue:

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-09, 04:49 PM

Unlikely. You don't tend to build shrines and statues to worship a god you don't believe in.

And if you did they wouldn't have actual magical power and significance like these do.

I... probably should have done all of that post in blue text. Sorry.

tonberrian

2019-01-09, 06:08 PM

It's not like there's any other female casters that can use Status spells, barring one of the hidden classes (though IIRC status spells in this game are pretty trash, aside from Deneb's special).

HalfTangible

2019-01-09, 07:01 PM

I... probably should have done all of that post in blue text. Sorry.

Nah, I respond to non-serious stuff as if it's dead serious all the time.

It's fun.

LaZodiac

2019-01-09, 07:34 PM

To be fair, Sumer fell about 1,000 years before the Sea Peoples attacked Egypt, so in the context of the game, Ishtar might be seen in a similar way to how we view Norse deities today. So it's technically possible that those characters are worshipping Ishtar ironically because she's a cool ancient goddess. Right? :smallconfused:

Not having played Dark Souls, I don't have much to compare the actual game to, but it did look pretty shaky. Like, what was up with the boss' hitbox??

I think the reincarnation thing might be a reference to the Sed festivals, which is basically a 30-year jubilee. The idea being that, if you've ruled for 30 years, it's time to step aside, let your kids take over, and enjoy your retirement as a living god. So I'm imagining that maybe the Red Pharaoh got himself reincarnated into an adult body each time, like an old pharaoh handing over power to their heir. Especially since it looks like human sacrifice is involved? So it's more like a 'reset button of eternal youth' rather than 'you're literally a baby again'.

I know you're being sarcastic but I ****ing love the idea of someone in a culture that has basically been rendered into myth because of human nature...doing the same to an even further ancient culture.

Just imagining hipster egyptians swinging around ancient ass swords talking about how they were born in the wrong era, they could have totally kicked Enkidu's ass and then Gil would be his friend.

Are you planning to use/show off the Deneb easter-egg? I expect you'll want to talk about it/show it at some point, but I know using it early on can make the early game much much easier.. and the Witch class needed for it gets obsolete later on, since it's one of the lower-level 'female caster' types.

Yup.

Nah, I respond to non-serious stuff as if it's dead serious all the time.

It's fun.

This is called saving face *head pats*

DataNinja

2019-01-09, 07:52 PM

I know you're being sarcastic but I ****ing love the idea of someone in a culture that has basically been rendered into myth because of human nature...doing the same to an even further ancient culture.

Just imagining hipster egyptians swinging around ancient ass swords talking about how they were born in the wrong era, they could have totally kicked Enkidu's ass and then Gil would be his friend.

Now, see, that could be a fresh and hilarious take on this kind of stuff... it would just require some decent writing. I love this sort of stuff, not taking itself seriously and all that, but it definitely requires someone who knows what they're doing. That's the sort of stuff that could fall flat or be groan-inducing super easily.

HalfTangible

2019-01-09, 10:49 PM

This is called saving face *head pats*

Only when you do it. :smallwink:

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-10, 01:46 PM

I'm glad that I wasn't the only one struck at the name "Avaris".

Just picked up on this... y'all do know that Avaris was a real place, right? It's the Greek name for Hut-waret, a capital of Egypt during the 15th dynasty (during which time Egypt was run by foreign conquerors). It seems the native Egyptians saw the Avaris-based rulers as illegitimate, given that they expelled them in 1550 BC, so the game's presentation of a 'kingdom of Avaris' as a hostile power isn't entirely baseless.

DataNinja

2019-01-10, 03:07 PM

Just picked up on this... y'all do know that Avaris was a real place, right? It's the Greek name for Hut-waret, a capital of Egypt during the 15th dynasty (during which time Egypt was run by foreign conquerors). It seems the native Egyptians saw the Avaris-based rulers as illegitimate, given that they expelled them in 1550 BC, so the game's presentation of a 'kingdom of Avaris' as a hostile power isn't entirely baseless.
Ah, oops. History isn't my strong suit, and, while I did look up the "writings" that they mentioned, I didn't fact-check that part. I'm just used to groan-inducingly on-the-nose names in certain games. Mea culpa. :smallredface:

LaZodiac

2019-01-10, 08:12 PM

Just picked up on this... y'all do know that Avaris was a real place, right? It's the Greek name for Hut-waret, a capital of Egypt during the 15th dynasty (during which time Egypt was run by foreign conquerors). It seems the native Egyptians saw the Avaris-based rulers as illegitimate, given that they expelled them in 1550 BC, so the game's presentation of a 'kingdom of Avaris' as a hostile power isn't entirely baseless.

I can't believe I've been so owned.

sorry for the delay on stuff By The Way! Tomorrow will be the first actual episode, as promised. Do note I won't be able to respond to it until Sunday night, however.

LaZodiac

2019-01-11, 08:23 AM

Hey let's actually get this thing started shall we?

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis 1] War-crime Island (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hB4KOlHxE0)

Video Length: 20:39

With the votes tallied, it's time to begin! With the six fates decided, the adventure of Gaston, a knight of Felis (and Lodis) begins!

There really isn't much to this episode, we're still firmly in tutorial zone. Which isn't a negative thing, tactics games can be complicated if you've never played them before. Luckily, I am quite well versed in these sorts of games, even if I haven't played this one really. Immediately upon making landfall on the island of Ovis, we've been attacked by brigands hired to murder us specifically! That's uh...an auspicious start. Especially since, once we win...poor Gaston gets crossbow'd into the ocean! And for some reason we get swept away instead of landing in the chest high water around these cliffs, as demonstrated with shield-tech.

Waking up in a warm bed, it appears we've been saved...and also somehow went all the way NORTH of where we made landfall it seems? That's weird. Anyway, Ivanna, a former knight of the guys we've come here to beat up, offers to help find Rictor and company, so that's what we'll be doing next time! Hope you all enjoyed this small taste of what is to come.

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As mentioned in video I looked at the pumpkin tips in a separate video, which you can see here. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ciGLn9vf20)

The pumpkin tips are actually pretty important stuff, but a lot of it is things we won't have to worry about for awhile. Still, it's nice to get all that reading done so now I don't have to spend a large amount of time writing or speaking about a lot of the more grittier mechanics!

That being said you'll notice that there is a Biorhythm thing like in Fire Emblem Path of Radiance. That's basically as ignore-able here as it was in that game.

------

Rounding us off today, let's look at the emblems we've seen. First off, dumb Past Zodi got it wrong. Arbitration is rewarded to you for persuading FIVE enemies to join your side. It increases the chance of persuasion by 30% flat, which is really good if you intend to talk enemies into joining you. It also is some nice flavor, showing that Gaston here is a nice boy who is quite good at talking.

Don Quixote is an emblem "awarded" to you for taking 2/3rds of our hp in a single counter attack. You went up against someone who could kick your ass and they did so on YOUR TURN. It lowers your int by 10, because you're clearly an idiot.

Embodiment of Desires is given to you for picking up five war trophies (the little loot bags) before a battle ends. If you've got this emblem, buried treasure you find tends to be better. Note that this is random buried treasure, some maps have pre-set buried treasure. Still nice to have, though.

Finally, Heavenly Spirit. You get this for healing allies TWENTY times! That's a lot of healing! If you've got this emblem you can become a Priest class, and that's all it does. Note that you do need to use healing MAGIC to get this. You don't become a priest by shoving herbs in someone's face.

A lot of emblems are pretty tricky to get, but thankfully this game has a mechanic we'll talk about later (though it's briefly brought up in the pumpkin tip video) that'll help alleviate some of that.

ShneekeyTheLost

2019-01-11, 11:42 AM

I never got into this game, although it is much like most of the other Tactics style games out there it seems. I'll certainly be following along as you play.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-11, 03:17 PM

And for some reason we get swept away instead of landing in the chest high water around these cliffs

Headcanon: Gaston and Rictor spent several hours gossiping between the end of the battle and the crossbow ambush, and consequently the tide went from low to high.

DataNinja

2019-01-11, 03:33 PM

Apparently we like our good guys. :smalltongue:

Your help-voice-fairy thing is Navi? I'm not sure whether that's accidental, or you did that. :smallamused:
(Or, more likely, it's short for Navigation.)

That enemy came from... your ship? Well, at least you're water element, so, you should be fine in water, right? :smallwink:

Mermaids? What are the odds of that. :smalltongue:

All in all, looks interesting. Though, as you mentioned, it was really more of a "watching" session, rather than playing. So, will be neat to see how it turns out.

Huh, neat that the terrain apparently changes. There's a lot of cool stuff mentioned in the tips video.

Is there anything in particular that you'd be interested in having tracked along the way?

jindra34

2019-01-11, 05:25 PM

That enemy came from... your ship? Well, at least you're water element, so, you should be fine in water, right? :smallwink:
The guy who shoots you is implied to be the bandit you just captured. Which says a WHOLE lot about the quality of the friends you came with.

DataNinja

2019-01-11, 07:13 PM

The guy who shoots you is implied to be the bandit you just captured. Which says a WHOLE lot about the quality of the friends you came with.
Ah, I missed that implication, since they were just called "Hidden Enemy". (I'll be honest, I'd not inferred that it was a capture. I thought that we'd just killed them all.)

Also, have I mentioned how much I love the "not-important-enough-to-have-a-name/we-don't-know-their-name" names that they give people in this game? :smalltongue:

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-11, 07:56 PM

It didn't seem like an escaped captive to me either. There's no mention of prisoners or taking people alive, and the cut scene doesn't know whether you left any of the generic enemies alive or not... I think it's just another person who's been hired to kill Rictor.

LaZodiac

2019-01-13, 04:57 PM

Headcanon: Gaston and Rictor spent several hours gossiping between the end of the battle and the crossbow ambush, and consequently the tide went from low to high.

Valid!

Also concerning the keeping of prisoners and stuff...we very much kill unless a cutscene shows otherwise. Different name is different guy.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-13, 05:19 PM

On this question:

Is there anything in particular that you'd be interested in having tracked along the way?

I don't know how this game works exactly, but surely we have to track style points? Like shield bash kills, counter-attack kills, mutual kills (if that's possible), that sort of thing. What else can you do in Tactics Ogre that's worth tracking?

LaZodiac

2019-01-13, 05:21 PM

On this question:

I don't know how this game works exactly, but surely we have to track style points? Like shield bash kills, counter-attack kills, mutual kills (if that's possible), that sort of thing. What else can you do in Tactics Ogre that's worth tracking?

Forgot to respond to this concern! Once we actually have units that matter, a kill counter/score card might be cool. This game never reaches Fire Emblem "twelve vs 40" levels, so it should be reasonable.

DataNinja

2019-01-13, 05:40 PM

I don't know how this game works exactly, but surely we have to track style points? Like shield bash kills, counter-attack kills, mutual kills (if that's possible), that sort of thing. What else can you do in Tactics Ogre that's worth tracking?

I'm afraid that I don't have the Style Qualifications to track Style Points. I don't know what's Stylish or not. :smallwink:

Forgot to respond to this concern! Once we actually have units that matter, a kill counter/score card might be cool. This game never reaches Fire Emblem "twelve vs 40" levels, so it should be reasonable.

Kills, as they are, easy. Even in FE, the hardest part at that point would have just been scrolling to the correct character's box. Keeping track of what class was what for individual kills in FE, as someone who had never played before, that was more difficult. But, as long as you don't care about, say, damage dealt/received, it's easy.

The less granularity you care about, the easier it is. You having 100 units, as long as it's easy to tell them apart, and all you want is kill counts? That's a piece of cake, relatively speaking. :smalltongue:

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-14, 07:15 AM

I'm afraid that I don't have the Style Qualifications to track Style Points. I don't know what's Stylish or not. :smallwink:

Well in that case, if anyone does anything stylish, I'll keep track of it myself. :smallcool:

LaZodiac

2019-01-14, 08:10 AM

Back from the void I rise, with live commentary.

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis [2] Disaster At Scabellum (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hOMTZrLsxc)

Video Length: 27:40

The disaster, thankfully, is that Gaston gets jumped by a hedge wizard. But yeah, this episode is a rather...interesting fight, in that last map we only controlled Gaston so everyone could give us a tutorial on how to fight. In this map...we only control Gaston again, and from the looks of how this one played out it's so the game could give us a tutorial on how NOT to fight. It's uh...a bit chaotic, to have a bunch of guest units since the guest units have priorities. Hell if I know what they are though.

The end result of all this is that we do, in the end, meet up with Rictor and Orson! Unfortunately, this is just a nominal reunion, as they give us a large sack of cash and tell us to perform a pincher manouver on our current target, which we'll be doing next time. We'll also, next time, be showing off all the cool actual units we've received thanks to your votes on the six fates. That rules! But yeah, hope you all enjoyed, I'll see you all next time.

------

Oh boy it's emblem time I didn't forget that.

Knight's Certificate: Minor correction on Past Zodi here. You don't HAVE to attack from the front on to get this, you just need to be counter attacked five times. This lets you be a knight and not much else, but that's still pretty important.

Centurion: This was surprising to get. You get it for killing three or more enemies on a map with a single person. It gives you a flat +20 strength...which is super good! Gaston can now punch up really good.

jindra34

2019-01-14, 09:09 AM

Well Zodi, I can't remember if this game awards bonus money based on time. Also note there are two AI's here. And everyone who joins after the start of the battle uses the enemy AI (even when they are your guest allies). But it was nice for richter and oirson to feed you two kills. Once you ran them down.

LansXero

2019-01-14, 09:49 AM

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-14, 09:51 AM

I can't remember if this game awards bonus money based on time.

According to gamefaqs, money for story missions is fixed; the tutorial battles never give money. In 'quest mode' however, you do get more goth the quicker you finish.

Bah, getting ninja'd hurts twice as much when you've got the word 'ninja' in your forum handle... :smallsigh:

jindra34

2019-01-14, 09:59 AM

Thanks Lans and Ninja, I just wasn't sure. Because I know Ogre Battle, and Ogre Battle 64 base post battle rewards on the clock, and wanted to clarify EARLY whether this applied for Tactics: Knight of Lodis. So Zodi didn't miss out on anything too big early on, when the game is at its second most biting.

DataNinja

2019-01-14, 06:04 PM

Live commentary? Well, that'll be cool. Raw, unvarnished reactions. Too bad there's no yelling for discounts here. :smalltongue:

No, to be a Knight you need to be honourable. Which is usually a handicap, yes. :smallwink:

They're generic, but at least they have names. Which I really like.

To be fair, you'll be able to be a lot more tactical when you actually have control of your allies. :smallamused:

I see I'm not the only one that likes Aurora as a name.

3500 is only thirty five hundred, unfortunately.

Well, here's the beginning of our kill counter. Including our stabbing of Stan.

Unit
Kills

Gaston
4

Bah, getting ninja'd hurts twice as much when you've got the word 'ninja' in your forum handle... :smallsigh:I know that feeling. :smallamused:

Thanks Lans and Ninja...Probably want to maybe not necessarily use "Ninja" on its own, as there are two of us in this case. :smalltongue:

Coidzor

2019-01-15, 09:41 PM

3500 is only thirty five hundred, unfortunately.

Which is 3 naked level 1 Soldiers with some change left over. Or 2 naked level 1 Hawkmen and change.

Basic equipment (hat, armor, weapon) would be 1080 goth for a sword boy or 1200 goth for a bow boy with a leather hat, hard leather armor, and the short sword or starting bow.

Of course, you could use Training and set them up to be able to fight unarmed until you've acquired more lucre.

DataNinja

2019-01-15, 10:26 PM

Which is 3 naked level 1 Soldiers with some change left over. Or 2 naked level 1 Hawkmen and change.

Basic equipment (hat, armor, weapon) would be 1080 goth for a sword boy or 1200 goth for a bow boy with a leather hat, hard leather armor, and the short sword or starting bow.

Of course, you could use Training and set them up to be able to fight unarmed until you've acquired more lucre.
I will be 100% honest and say I am going in completely blind to this, so I had zero idea of to how much you could get with that amount. I only mentioned it because Zodi said we got 35 Thousand.

LaZodiac

2019-01-18, 08:34 AM

It's time for a sleepy baby Zodi video for Ogre Tactics today.

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis [3] Gaston v. Gaston (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJpqa7JkqvY)

Video Length: 37:49

Yeah expect these to get pretty long after a point. Anyway, a minor correction on Past Zodi. Centurion specifically requires you to kill three enemies and NOT kill EVERY enemy, with that single unit. It's weird. As well, I mention the Heavenly Spirit emblem...it is NOT required to become a CLERIC. It is required to become a Priest/Priestess, the second tier cleric. I am correct that Kamui, our rando ninja, isn't able to be the class he is, but otherwise our cleric is actually capable of being a cleric.

Also yeah, like I said I'm not sure I'll be keeping all those four units we received. I can confirm due to recording stuff in advance that uh...we won't be. It's a little silly, you'll see. Now, what's important...let's look at the actual mechanics of the six fates and why we got what we got. The answers to our questions, ultimately, give us an overall point score of -1. That means we get two soldiers, a cleric and a ninja. This part turns out to be correct! Less correct is...we're supposed to have a rapier. Instead, astute eyed viewers will notice we have a second axe. I notice eventually, but it's...it's weird. I don't know why it's like this? Especially because according to the guide I'm using that's...not an option. It may just be that my guide is wrong however, since looking around a different guide says we get a francisca for our options. But yeah, who knows!

Now, recruitment time! Hiring soldiers in this game is...interesting, mostly in that you can only ever actually buy soldiers, beasts, and demi-humans. Soldiers are...average in many ways, so boosting their level with money is a double edged sword. We use some cash to recruit a fire element lady called Deneb for absolutely no reason at all, and we'll recruit actual patreon units...later. This unfortunately takes priority for a variety of reasons. We will also never be buying an octopus, as beasts are generally not that useful and octopi are the weakest of them. You also see me equipping Deneb with a bow and an axe. The shortbow and axe are both one handed weapons, so you can put both on your person and use both in battle. That's actually pretty neat, though it makes it so that Deneb can't use a shield. This is fine.

We also take a dip into training mode this video. Training mode is interesting, pitting your units against each other. You can turn on auto battle for this, but it's not recommended since they WILL use items and that's uh...that's a waste. I mention not to over-train, and it's...actually kinda hard to over-train, but it's still worth keeping a thought on. If you gain 20 levels in training mode, you get an emblem that lowers all your stats by -10! Very flavorful, but also nasty.

Once the training is done, we head off to...a random encounter because I said so. We don't be DIRECTLY pursuing random encounters, but if I do them I will show them off since unlike the training fights (which I also won't be making big use of) this doesn't count for our kill counters. But yes, random encounter with some soldiers and their wizard buddy. This is an otherwise inconsequential battle...minus two important facts. One, we use the Persuade option to recruit the wizard, Leon! Persuade is a difficult ability to use, but if it works you turn the target into a guest party member, and at the end of the map they'll offer to join your army. Now, persuade maxes out at 49% accuracy wise, various stacks like your class (same class boosts it) gender (opposite gender boosts it) and emblems (some increase it, some don't) influence the accuracy of persuade. So does stabbing the life out of them. Ultimately, we only end up with a 4% chance of getting Deneb to recruit the wizard...which we get, since I'm a cheater who uses save states for specific things like this. The other important thing in this fight is ONE OF THE NPCS HAS THE SAME NAME AS OUR PROTAGONIST. This CANNOT stand, and our Gaston makes a pretty convincing argument for making this guy change his name.

But yeah, that's it for this weird, weird little episode. Join us next time, for actual plot progression...and the last time we ever seen the starting generics.

------

Emblem time! We got a couple emblems today!

Book of Initiation: You get this for avoiding three attacks in a row. It's pretty fancy, though all it does is let you be a swordmaster. Of course being a swordmaster is uh...really important, given it's a pretty strong class! A little tricky to get, so I'm glad to have gotten it when I did.

Self-Preservation: Another tricky emblem to get, though as you can see we can get this in training. If you kill a unit with a counter you get this emblem, and it increases your counter attack damage! A little extra boost, there's a good chance I'll get this on all my melee units eventually, just because of the nature of things.

Sniper: A surprise emblem I didn't imagine I'd get any time soon! I sorta poo-poo it in video, but Sniper gets you +10 agility which is actually pretty decent given agility determines accuracy and stuff. I will at one point be getting this on all my fighting man units just because it's that useful. To get it, you need to land 5 bow shots in a row without missing. Simple enough, though you can miss on a 99% shot if you're not lucky...

Vixen's Whisper: Persuade a male unit with a lady, and you get this emblem! It let's you become a witch, a female magic user class. We'll detail the specific...interesting points of this emblem at a later date.

jindra34

2019-01-18, 09:34 AM

Okay so Zodi that little fortune thing each character has essentially reflects on their LUCK. Also on the whole, Beasts SUCK so beast tamer is also crap. Dragons are better so if you want a booster you go for the female Dragon Tamer. Also yes, swordmaster is the bread and butter of late game damage. With maybe a side of sirens. If you want to do training for levels (and not emblems) its advised to use Quest mode. gaston's Lightning Bolt was so accurate because he was technically behind the enemy, thus high hit. Also Gaston will draw lots of aggro, because the game is half spitefully and recognizes that killing Gaston will be a win.

DataNinja

2019-01-18, 02:58 PM

tyckspoon

2019-01-18, 03:05 PM

Ooh, dragons and dragon tamers. That sounds like fun. But also sounds like very, very late game.:smalltongue:

Surprisingly early on, if my experiences with other Ogre Battle games are anything to go on - March of the Black Queen could have dragon-class monsters as part of your starting army and recruitable within the first few areas. The actual Dragoner/Dragon-tamer class was a bit harder, but that's because it required a special item to class-change the basic Beast Tamer into one - this game I believe it's a basic class on its own, the female equivalent to the first-tier Beast Tamer. It did take a while to get to the point where you could recruit real dragons instead of Wyverns and then level those dragons up into something more than basic attackers, tho.

jindra34

2019-01-18, 03:16 PM

Ooh, dragons and dragon tamers. That sounds like fun. But also sounds like very, very late game.:smalltongue:

If you want it to be good you actually have to start early game with young dragons. Then work them up through their promotions.

tonberrian

2019-01-18, 03:18 PM

Using your fate you can determine when it's a good time to get one of the secret classes, and it has some minor combat effects no one cares about. Your fate will change day to day.

Thunder Flare will always have 100% accuracy. It's one of the AoE spells (as opposed to Air Blade, a missile spell, which will only ever deal damage to one square). Eventually, at... 70? intelligence, Thunder Flare will deal damage in a plus shape. Missile spells will, like that Shuriken at the edge of the building, hit obstacles (or people!) in the way. AoE spells will never have to deal with that. That's why they cost twice as much. Fire, Water, Air, and Earth all have a missile and a AoE, Virtue has just a missile, and Bane has a bunch of weird spells.

Also, on exp: You can get experience from stabbing your own team, just as much as by stabbing an enemy. And you only ever get 1 xp from doing something to a character lower level than you, 5-6 for interacting with the same level, ~11 for 1 level higher, and I THINK it's ~17 for two, ~33 for 3, and ~60 for 4 and 100 for 5 or more (and no carryover if you level up), with a multiplier for kills (that caps at 100 as well). So the most efficient way to level up your dudes in training is to have each team to have one high level character and the rest of the characters on each team wail on the high level character.

Also, random encounters levels are based on Gaston's level. So if, as a main character, he gets to a higher level than anyone else, random encounters will be that much harder.

DataNinja

2019-01-18, 03:28 PM

If you want it to be good you actually have to start early game with young dragons. Then work them up through their promotions.
While that sounds neat, it does sadly sound like a pain for if one does not have dragons at the start. I do understand why there are mechanics that reward you for doing things throughout the entire game, but man is it frustrating if you don't know about it.

tyckspoon

2019-01-18, 03:39 PM

While that sounds neat, it does sadly sound like a pain for if one does not have dragons at the start. I do understand why there are mechanics that reward you for doing things throughout the entire game, but man is it frustrating if you don't know about it.

With Ogre Battle, at least, part of it comes from the somewhat obscure alignment mechanisms - to reference March of the Black Queen again (because I'm not that familiar with Knight of Lodis's specific system) in order to get a higher-grade dragon you have to go hard into either the 'good' or 'evil' paths, because there is no (IIRC) top-tier 'neutral' version of the dragon. And that pretty much requires husbanding a character to that end from as early as you can, because it's very difficult to significantly modify the required stats at higher levels, and if you recruit a neutral dragon at those levels you're facing a long, frustrating, and tedious slog of abusing game mechanics to adjust them to the point that they can change into the class you want.

(One of my favorite examples of this is how you can screw yourself out of being able to promote a Wizard - it's a low-alignment class, so trends toward 'evil', but it actually has a minimum alignment. If you get below that minimum mark and, for example, zero out alignment it's very, very hard to raise it back up, so you may wind up never being able to promote that character unless you know exactly how the game manages that stat.)

tonberrian

2019-01-18, 03:59 PM

Eh. IN THIS GAME you just have to hire a dragon at a level below the stats at which it will evolve. You can always hire a level 1 dragon, and it's fairly easy to get a character to the same level as your main guys. And you could even do it where Zodi is now, every day changes the third slot into a different beast/dragon/demihuman. Also, there are only 4 types of dragons in this game: the basic one and the three evolved forms (one for each alignment). The basic dragons come in different colors based on element, but you can choose which element as part of recruitment.

And alignment (or even element) changing is really easy in this game - later on there are consumables that will change your alignment one step along chaos or law (one for each) and there's also a mirror of elements that will put the user's element on the target.

This game has some annoying mechanics, but for most it's refreshingly direct.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-18, 04:27 PM

Here's my contribution! More columns will be added as more stylish plays are executed.

Unit
Counter Kills

Gaston
0

Allos
1

Deneb
0

Flauros
0

Kamui
0

Leon
0

Thelma
0

And you only ever get 1 xp from doing something to a character lower level than you

Also, random encounters levels are based on Gaston's level. So if, as a main character, he gets to a higher level than anyone else, random encounters will be that much harder.

Comparing what I've seen so far with Final Fantasy Tactics (my only real point of reference for this genre), it's these sorts of things that make me prefer FF. In that, you get XP equal to 10+level difference (so you'd get 9XP for hitting someone 1 level lower than you), which seems a lot kinder, especially since you're usually fighting people of equal level. And random encounters scale to whoever in your party has the highest level, which doesn't have to be Ramza. You don't even need to deploy him in most random encounters - is the same true of our Gaston?

Did you forget to equip those shields, Zodi, or was that edited out?

DataNinja

2019-01-18, 05:06 PM

With Ogre Battle, at least, part of it comes from the somewhat obscure alignment mechanisms - to reference March of the Black Queen again (because I'm not that familiar with Knight of Lodis's specific system) in order to get a higher-grade dragon you have to go hard into either the 'good' or 'evil' paths, because there is no (IIRC) top-tier 'neutral' version of the dragon. And that pretty much requires husbanding a character to that end from as early as you can, because it's very difficult to significantly modify the required stats at higher levels, and if you recruit a neutral dragon at those levels you're facing a long, frustrating, and tedious slog of abusing game mechanics to adjust them to the point that they can change into the class you want.

(One of my favorite examples of this is how you can screw yourself out of being able to promote a Wizard - it's a low-alignment class, so trends toward 'evil', but it actually has a minimum alignment. If you get below that minimum mark and, for example, zero out alignment it's very, very hard to raise it back up, so you may wind up never being able to promote that character unless you know exactly how the game manages that stat.)

Hoo boy. That is a... thing. A thing indeed. Little finnicky mechanics like that can be cool, but also really, really obnoxious if you have no idea how it works. So... I've got a love-hate relationship with them.

Eh. IN THIS GAME you just have to hire a dragon at a level below the stats at which it will evolve. You can always hire a level 1 dragon, and it's fairly easy to get a character to the same level as your main guys. And you could even do it where Zodi is now, every day changes the third slot into a different beast/dragon/demihuman. Also, there are only 4 types of dragons in this game: the basic one and the three evolved forms (one for each alignment). The basic dragons come in different colors based on element, but you can choose which element as part of recruitment.

And alignment (or even element) changing is really easy in this game - later on there are consumables that will change your alignment one step along chaos or law (one for each) and there's also a mirror of elements that will put the user's element on the target.

This game has some annoying mechanics, but for most it's refreshingly direct.

Well, that's good to know that there are mechanics in place to help correct errors once one learns more about the game. I always appreciate those, even if they're not quite as good as knowing what to do beforehand. As long as they're useable.

Here's my contribution! More columns will be added as more stylish plays are executed.
No Style Points for Gaston executing Gaston? :smalltongue:

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-18, 05:14 PM

No Style Points for Gaston executing Gaston? :smalltongue:

Haha, well depending on how many random names the game has to choose from, that's probably not something that's going to come up ever again, so...

LaZodiac

2019-01-18, 06:03 PM

Judging by the title, I can already tell why you found our choice of name hilarious...

I will not be counting Training kills, incidentally.
Oh, good, we seem to be on the same train of thought with that.

I assume you mean that random encounters will count for kill-count? If not, I'll change that.

Unit
Kills

Gaston
6

Allos
1

Flauros
0

Kamui
0

Thelma
0

Deneb
0

Leon
0

Ooh, dragons and dragon tamers. That sounds like fun. But also sounds like very, very late game.:smalltongue:

Yeah, random encounters matter. What I meant is that it's not like, a PLOT encounter.

Missile spells will, like that Shuriken at the edge of the building, hit obstacles (or people!) in the way.

Also, random encounters levels are based on Gaston's level. So if, as a main character, he gets to a higher level than anyone else, random encounters will be that much harder.

Oh boy that first one is gonna...be fun, to find out, on Monday. The joys of recording ahead!

I also completely forgot that, good point.

Here's my contribution! More columns will be added as more stylish plays are executed.

Unit
Counter Kills

Gaston
0

Allos
1

Deneb
0

Flauros
0

Kamui
0

Leon
0

Thelma
0

Comparing what I've seen so far with Final Fantasy Tactics (my only real point of reference for this genre), it's these sorts of things that make me prefer FF. In that, you get XP equal to 10+level difference (so you'd get 9XP for hitting someone 1 level lower than you), which seems a lot kinder, especially since you're usually fighting people of equal level. And random encounters scale to whoever in your party has the highest level, which doesn't have to be Ramza. You don't even need to deploy him in most random encounters - is the same true of our Gaston?

Did you forget to equip those shields, Zodi, or was that edited out?

Gaston also did a counter kill, coulda swore I showed it off...I may be thinking of Monday's, we'll see. Also you don't have to deploy Gaston in random encounters, I don't think you have to deploy Gaston ever really, but you should.

I did equip the shields, mostly, but I did edit it out. Shields aren't useable on people who are using two handed weapons or two one handed weapons.

Hoo boy. That is a... thing. A thing indeed. Little finnicky mechanics like that can be cool, but also really, really obnoxious if you have no idea how it works. So... I've got a love-hate relationship with them.

If you like pointlessly finicky mechanics and sub-systems upon sub-systems, you'll love the Ogre Battle Saga games. None of them do it the same and often do it as an exact mirror to previous games and it's a hell of a thing.

DataNinja

2019-01-18, 06:27 PM

Yeah, random encounters matter. What I meant is that it's not like, a PLOT encounter.
This is just the part that confused me:

Once the training is done, we head off to...a random encounter because I said so. We don't be DIRECTLY pursuing random encounters, but if I do them I will show them off since unlike the training fights (which I also won't be making big use of) this doesn't count for our kill counters. .
I figured one of the underlined was wrong (I assumed the doesn't, because you said you'd show them off), so, just wanted to clarify.

(As an aside, for random encounters, if it ever gets to the point where you cut them to just show kills, please, please, please try to keep giving the entire order in so I can see the name, because I realized tracking's gonna be a bit harder than in FE, given that not everyone's immediately identifiable by appearance alone. :smallamused: )

If you like pointlessly finicky mechanics and sub-systems upon sub-systems, you'll love the Ogre Battle Saga games. None of them do it the same and often do it as an exact mirror to previous games and it's a hell of a thing.
As mentioned, I have a love-hate thing with them. There are times when it's just so much fun to dive in to something, and have all that nuance... but, at other times it just feels so obnoxiously obtuse.

LaZodiac

2019-01-18, 06:29 PM

This is just the part that confused me:

I figured one of the underlined was wrong (I assumed the doesn't, because you said you'd show them off), so, just wanted to clarify.

(As an aside, for random encounters, if it ever gets to the point where you cut them to just show kills, please, please, please try to keep giving the entire order in so I can see the name, because I realized tracking's gonna be a bit harder than in FE, given that not everyone's immediately identifiable by appearance alone. :smallamused: )

As mentioned, I have a love-hate thing with them. There are times when it's just so much fun to dive in to something, and have all that nuance... but, at other times it just feels so obnoxiously obtuse.

Like I said, I meant they're not plot fights. My ability to find the conceptually mirror of a statement and say it with 100% confidence is astounding and annoying.

And yeah don't worry, I'll keep the order in if we end up jumping around and stuff.

DataNinja

2019-01-18, 06:36 PM

Like I said, I meant they're not plot fights. My ability to find the conceptually mirror of a statement and say it with 100% confidence is astounding and annoying.
Eh, happens to everyone. The important thing is that you know what you mean, and are willing and able to clarify. :smalltongue:

And yeah don't worry, I'll keep the order in if we end up jumping around and stuff.
Cool. I figured you probably would, because you've been nice to trackers in the past, but, it's something that I realized during this episode that I couldn't always tell everyone apart at a glance, whoops. (I'm a little fuzzy on names, too, but I imagine that'll get better once they actually start being named after people.)

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-18, 06:42 PM

Gaston also did a counter kill, coulda swore I showed it off...I may be thinking of Monday's, we'll see.

That was in the training fight, which I understand we're not counting?

LaZodiac

2019-01-18, 06:44 PM

That was in the training fight, which I understand we're not counting?

Right, good point! My mistake :smalltongue:

tonberrian

2019-01-18, 09:07 PM

jindra34

2019-01-18, 09:52 PM

As far as pointless systems go in Knight of Lodis, there's really just the Biorhythm, which you get a feel with your fortune. Everything else is pretty straightforward. Even game ending is chosen by one choice (that's clearly labelled, iirc, and determines the major game path) and bringing one unit to the final battle.

Except when you actually know what Biorhythm actually affects. Namely the fact that a high one can result in hitting about 75% of sub 50% reported hit rate attacks, and a low one can result in missing 99% attacks consistently. Its important, just hard as HELL to figure out how to manipulate (when you even can).

Also there are technically 3 endings to the game. Though again completely under Zodi's control.

LansXero

2019-01-18, 10:34 PM

Except when you actually know what Biorhythm actually affects. Namely the fact that a high one can result in hitting about 75% of sub 50% reported hit rate attacks, and a low one can result in missing 99% attacks consistently. Its important, just hard as HELL to figure out how to manipulate (when you even can).

Isnt byorhitm just the multicolored bar below the portraits? Isnt there an emblem / class combo to move it permanently to +2? Or am I mixing it up with another game / mechanic?

tonberrian

2019-01-18, 10:41 PM

Isnt byorhitm just the multicolored bar below the portraits? Isnt there an emblem / class combo to move it permanently to +2? Or am I mixing it up with another game / mechanic?

Another game mechanic. The gauge under your name is morale, basically. Some class powers, items, and emblems effect it, for example evolved Chaos dragons, Vrtra, give -1 to enemies within 3 tiles, and a Dragon Tamer gives +1 to allied dragons within three squares. The emblem to permanently set it to +2 requires you to go through ALL the classes, including the secret ones (which one of requires an item that is both limited per game and used up when changing), so its not plausible to give it to everyone.

LansXero

2019-01-18, 10:44 PM

Another game mechanic. The gauge under your name is morale, basically. Some class powers and emblems effect it, for example evolved Chaos dragons, Vrtra, give -1 to enemies within 3 tiles, and a Dragon Tamer gives +1 to allied dragons within three squares. The emblem to permanently set it to +2 requires you to go through ALL the classes, including the secret ones (which one of requires an item that is both limited per game and used up when changing), so its not plausible to give it to everyone.

Dont angel knights give +1 around them? I dont remember how, but Im pretty sure my quest team depended on the +2 to get the required damage to clear things quickly enough

tonberrian

2019-01-18, 11:06 PM

Dont angel knights give +1 around them? I dont remember how, but Im pretty sure my quest team depended on the +2 to get the required damage to clear things quickly enough

I'm pretty sure angel knights themselves do not, but snapping them with a snapdragon scroll I know puts that ability on the sword. And MC-kun gets the emblem for +2 by beating the game. And the Lawful evolved dragon gives +1 to allies within 3 squares as well.

Edit: I'm pretty sure there's also an emblem that gives +1 to allies within 3 squares.

jindra34

2019-01-19, 10:25 PM

LaZodiac

2019-01-19, 10:30 PM

Oh yeah, did some digging on my cart of this game and the Male equivalent of Witch is Warlock. At about a billion times more useful because dark magic can actually do damage with a small chance for a side effect chaser, as opposed to the witches status effect focus.

WE'll talk more about things we don't have later, once we have them. I am under the impression that witches get a bonus to status effect spells but I mean I can't actually find any truly in depth information on it's mechanics.

jindra34

2019-01-19, 11:45 PM

WE'll talk more about things we don't have later, once we have them. I am under the impression that witches get a bonus to status effect spells but I mean I can't actually find any truly in depth information on it's mechanics.

Lets agree to talk more about why offensive status effect magic sucks for 99% of the classes when Deneb gets her promotion then.

LansXero

2019-01-20, 09:53 PM

Lets agree to talk more about why offensive status effect magic sucks for 99% of the classes when Deneb gets her promotion then.

Does petrify get a duration in this one, or is in the PSP reboot of LuCT? Although that one is still easier to run on a swordmaster I think (I keep mixing LuCT and this one so much). Witches are also the only viable gateway to sirens, so thats not nothing. I cant recall ever finding a use for Warlocks, although I admit Ive always been enamoured of valkyries despite their being not so great.

tonberrian

2019-01-20, 10:04 PM

Does petrify get a duration in this one, or is in the PSP reboot of LuCT? Although that one is still easier to run on a swordmaster I think (I keep mixing LuCT and this one so much). Witches are also the only viable gateway to sirens, so thats not nothing. I cant recall ever finding a use for Warlocks, although I admit Ive always been enamoured of valkyries despite their being not so great.

I always stat Eleanor up as a valkyrie, but only because there aren't any great physical classes for females, and also Longicolnis. What would you do for her? Siren?

jindra34

2019-01-20, 10:17 PM

Does petrify get a duration in this one, or is in the PSP reboot of LuCT? Although that one is still easier to run on a swordmaster I think (I keep mixing LuCT and this one so much). Witches are also the only viable gateway to sirens, so thats not nothing. I cant recall ever finding a use for Warlocks, although I admit Ive always been enamoured of valkyries despite their being not so great.

Nope, petrification is till you cure it. Sadly the only access you get to it is through a demon class, or a one copy spell. Then again, its an exception, either your immune to the ability, not in the area of target or you get turned to stone. Also status effect spells in this game are borked if your name isn't Deneb.

LansXero

2019-01-20, 10:41 PM

I always stat Eleanor up as a valkyrie, but only because there aren't any great physical classes for females, and also Longicolnis. What would you do for her? Siren?

Oh, I do Valkyrie as well, but IIRC she can honestly be anything, like most named characters. I tend to keep randos around and not level story characters though. The game is easy enough as is (main game at least)

LaZodiac

2019-01-21, 08:29 AM

Good morning Vietnam Ovis. It's time for more this.

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis [4] A Them Emerges (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5lTHM_ffyo)

Video Length: 44:12

And by theme I mean not only with regards to plot, but with gameplay as well. In this one...we get to see that I'm perhaps not as smart and yet far smarter than I give myself credit for. We head off to our next destination, and get ambushed by Cressida, an archer lady angry about the deaths of her parents 15 years ago. Lodis killed her family in the Reformation, and she wants revenge. Gaston's response is "yeah but that happened 15 years ago" which uh...probably puts into perspective the type of dude Gaston actually is? It's truly interesting, I feel, that Gaston (who is our protagonist, mind you) can look at someone who's parents were killed in the brutal Reformation that his own side did, that he doesn't even really agree with, and say "yeah but that was like 15 years ago who cares". Just a fun little...thing, to consider. I'm sure it's fine, given we're still attached to the Lodis army and this is a young, impersonally Gaston who hasn't yet learned the truth of the world, like how a certain blonde haired Final Fantasy protagonist did. And by that I mean...well, you'll see.

But yeah, this video also has some minor desync issues. Now, the next videos WON'T have that problem, because I've figured out two very good and important ways to fix that. That being said our next actual Ogre video will be done in Sony Vegas as opposed to my typical AVS editor. It's time to actually do an upgrade. So there may be some shakiness with quality wise in the upcoming videos as I learn to wrangle that particular bucking bronco. That being said, this one is pretty good...length aside. This is one of the inevitable Issues with a tactic game like this...it's gonna run long, and have not much to really discuss. Still, I hope you enjoy our attempts at rampaging through the country beating up more or less justifiably angry archers who barely even contribute to their undying rage due to the AI being very, VERY strange.

I also think this episode is actually pretty funny. Just as an aside. But yeah, hope you all enjoyed! Next time...well, Something Will Happen. Hope you didn't like these particular generics...

jindra34

2019-01-21, 09:22 AM

Zodi you don't want to know where Gaston cannonically ends up. Though this is the only Ogre Battle game where Lodis isn't the big bad country.
All characters generate the same MP per turn:10.
And Zodi, late game persuasion offers some really good tricks.
Yep, shooting your allies in the back is a thing that can happen.
Zodi, you noticed quite a lot, you just didn't let it register in your brain.
Archer enemies indeed do like to try and keep maximum range from you, as do casters.
The proper way to fight: GUARD EVERYTHING.
So rain will start to fill up that battlefield if it rains hard enough, long enough. As in squares will become water, and then the water will rise covering more squares.
Was waiting for that, a spell to go and hit the terrain.
You also kept the mages out of range of the burly barbarian.
Welcome to tactics games ZODI.
The true power of ninjas also finally shows its face, they can out run pretty much everyone. CHASE DOWN THOSE ARCHERS AND MAGES.
79% hit rate is good in this game. If you see a 99% outside of back attacks, it means you grossly out pace the enemy.

LaZodiac

2019-01-21, 09:25 AM

I'm aware of the fish sauce Jindra. I've seen this game to completion I just haven't finished it. We will discuss THAT particularly plot point At An Appropriate Time. And not one whit before hand.

Yup, I mentioned the water level rising thing.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-21, 09:46 AM

79% hit rate is good in this game. If you see a 99% outside of back attacks, it means you grossly out pace the enemy.

I don't know why, but I have a visceral aversion to hit rates below 95% in video games. Whether it's Pokemon, Civ, X-COM, Tactics, or even something like Valkyria Chronicles, I can't seem to stop myself from doing everything in my power to buff accuracy.

Looking forward to watching the video when I get off work!

LaZodiac

2019-01-21, 09:48 AM

I don't know why, but I have a visceral aversion to hit rates below 95% in video games. Whether it's Pokemon, Civ, X-COM, Tactics, or even something like Valkyria Chronicles, I can't seem to stop myself from doing everything in my power to buff accuracy.

Looking forward to watching the video when I get off work!

To be fair in some of those games sub 95% means either a miss, or the attack is worthless. See Valkyrie Chronicles, for instance.

PraetorDragoon

2019-01-21, 10:49 AM

To be fair in some of those games sub 95% means either a miss, or the attack is worthless. See Valkyrie Chronicles, for instance.

Certainly true in X-COM. How does one miss a point blank, 95% hit chance shot? :smallsigh:

LansXero

2019-01-21, 10:52 AM

Zodi you don't want to know where Gaston cannonically ends up.

At the time though everyone who had played the one before already knew it. Knight of Lodis is a prequel for one of the most important characters in the saga.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-21, 12:01 PM

Certainly true in X-COM. How does one miss a point blank, 95% hit chance shot? :smallsigh:

The RNG is rigged! I'm certain that it is in pokemon games. Anything that's not 100% accurate seems to miss more often than it hits...

Hah, epic kill steal there by Ivanna.

LaZodiac

2019-01-21, 05:00 PM

Certainly true in X-COM. How does one miss a point blank, 95% hit chance shot? :smallsigh:

Very stupidly.

At the time though everyone who had played the one before already knew it. Knight of Lodis is a prequel for one of the most important characters in the saga.

I mean, if you're an Ogre Battle aficionado you definitely knew. But I feel like everyone else wouldn't have a clue. Regardless, we will discuss the fish sauce at the appropriate time.

The RNG is rigged! I'm certain that it is in pokemon games. Anything that's not 100% accurate seems to miss more often than it hits...

Hah, epic kill steal there by Ivanna.

People have plumbed the game's math and XCom, the newer ones anyway, literally lie to you about the numbers.

DataNinja

2019-01-21, 06:57 PM

Man, there's been, like, a whole page of conversation since my reply to the last video. Hadn't realized this got everyone quite so talkative. (Granted, a lot of it's spoiler-marked, so that might be why it didn't really register.) :smallamused:

I mean, to be fair, even when it doesn't seem like you're the bad guy at first, you can be the bad guy, as we've seen... so maybe if it seems like you're the bad guy, you're.... not? :smalltongue:

"No, I don't want you to join, because you stole my kill after doing nothing." :smallwink:

I'd vote for a dragon tamer option. :smallcool:

Unit
Kills

Gaston
6

Allos
2

Flauros
1

Kamui
1

Thelma
0

Deneb
1

Leon
2

I mean, if you're an Ogre Battle aficionado you definitely knew. But I feel like everyone else wouldn't have a clue.
Like me, who knows not one whit about this game. Or series.

Qwertystop

2019-01-21, 07:09 PM

Pokemon, meanwhile, we know the odds because people have decompiled the games; those are fair (to within the limits of hardware precision and occasional bugs).

The biggest one for me is the digital versions of Blood Bowl; those are explicitly mimicking physical six-sided dice, so it's easy to know what the odds ought to be, and yet it's not all that uncommon to get double-self-knockout, reroll it, and get the same thing.

LansXero

2019-01-21, 07:12 PM

it's not all that uncommon to get double-self-knockout, reroll it, and get the same thing.

Oh please, rolling a bunch of 1s to then re-roll them into another batch of 1s happens to the best of us, at the most inconvenient of times :p So thats pretty realistic at least.

jindra34

2019-01-21, 07:51 PM

So since we are talking about odds lets talk about Tactics Ogre here and how IT LIES about the numbers: Namely the number shown is what it checks against [and is 100+levelmod+agimod+miscmods{such as from weapons and emblems}-(50+enemymods{same list, though some are weapons, like shields, are better on defense})*facingmod{1 from the front, .5 from the side, 0 from the back} all capped at 99] is accurate. Its just that the rng doesn't always roll a d100. It varies based on your biorythm/luck and morale.

Qwertystop

2019-01-21, 09:43 PM

Oh please, rolling a bunch of 1s to then re-roll them into another batch of 1s happens to the best of us, at the most inconvenient of times :p So thats pretty realistic at least.

Snake eyes into snake eyes is 1/1296; at the very least, it feels sufficiently more common that if I actually still played the game I'd be setting something up to take recordings and check.

LaZodiac

2019-01-22, 12:32 AM

Magic time!

Zodi Plays: Magic the Gathering Arena [2] Live Dangerous Or Not At All (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L6-6mfIqxA&feature=youtu.be)

Video Length: Yes

This is, partly, a test to see how I can use Sony Vegas to do recording. Turns out, pretty well!

Hope you all enjoy this ridiculous adventure.

A note for the future Knight of Lodis videos: I'm having severe trouble with the save file stuff. People who are into this game please come to assist me.

tonberrian

2019-01-22, 12:39 AM

DataNinja

2019-01-22, 01:38 AM

Hooooo boy. An hour of Magic. I know I just said recently that I watch all the videos of people I'm subscribed to... but I really hope you don't mind me bowing out of this one. It's just a little bit too much of a game I don't know. Hopefully it went well, at least. :smalltongue:

LaZodiac

2019-01-22, 02:00 AM

What seems to be your save file issue?

I don't remember having any issues, but I played this on GBA and not an emulator.

The saves aren't working. I load the rom and it doesn't have the continue option. I can use save states to reload, but I kinda need the save file to work for Quest Mode. I have the right save FILE stuff, I can make a save and all that, and sometimes it DOES work, but only for a bit and only after loading my save state.

Hooooo boy. An hour of Magic. I know I just said recently that I watch all the videos of people I'm subscribed to... but I really hope you don't mind me bowing out of this one. It's just a little bit too much of a game I don't know. Hopefully it went well, at least. :smalltongue:

That's fine. Feel free o watch it in chunks if you want, and I can totally at Some Point play through the tutorial again to give people a feel for the game.

tonberrian

2019-01-22, 02:15 AM

The saves aren't working. I load the rom and it doesn't have the continue option. I can use save states to reload, but I kinda need the save file to work for Quest Mode. I have the right save FILE stuff, I can make a save and all that, and sometimes it DOES work, but only for a bit and only after loading my save state.

That's fine. Feel free o watch it in chunks if you want, and I can totally at Some Point play through the tutorial again to give people a feel for the game.

Dunno how to help with that, specifically (it seems like an issue with the emulator to me), but what you might do is take a save state right after your save (as a backup), and then soft reset the game with A + B + Start + Select, then take another save state at the load screen, then load the save state then load the game. Should be able to get to do the quest mode stuff.

If this was a hardcopy of the game I'd suggest that the internal battery was dying on you.

Edit: Alternatively, are you sure you're not turning off the emulator in the middle of the save process? Make sure you back out of everything after saving, see if that helps.

LaZodiac

2019-01-22, 08:18 AM

Dunno how to help with that, specifically (it seems like an issue with the emulator to me), but what you might do is take a save state right after your save (as a backup), and then soft reset the game with A + B + Start + Select, then take another save state at the load screen, then load the save state then load the game. Should be able to get to do the quest mode stuff.

If this was a hardcopy of the game I'd suggest that the internal battery was dying on you.

Edit: Alternatively, are you sure you're not turning off the emulator in the middle of the save process? Make sure you back out of everything after saving, see if that helps.

Yeah none of that works. The issue is that, seemingly at random, the sa1 file stops being read by the game. Sometimes it gets picked up and everything is all nice and good, and the next time it happens I'm save stating on that screen so that it stays like that, but man...it's frustratin'.

EDIT: I've done so. If I continue my save, get into game, and then return to title from in game, the save is gone. So yeah, I need help with this.

DataNinja

2019-01-22, 10:27 AM

Oh, geez. Save trouble sucks. I don't have personal experience, and the only thing I could find online regarding it was this (http://www.emutalk.net/archive/index.php/t-29553.html) page, which I don't know if it's helpful or not (or if you've already seen it already). Hopefully you're able to work it all out, because this seems like a fun game, and I'd hate to have it cut short.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-22, 02:22 PM

Hope you all enjoy this ridiculous adventure.

I know nothing about MtG, but that was actually really fun.

LaZodiac

2019-01-23, 11:58 PM

Put the bullets directly in my mouth.

A Taste Of: Enter the Gungeon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVOK1DUY1sE&feature=youtu.be)

Video Length: twenty minutesish.

Hey what if I actually continued doing the Christmas A Taste Of games? Wouldn't that be a cool and smart thing to do?

It would be.

DataNinja

2019-01-24, 12:49 AM

Oh, cool. I only know of this game from watching a friend play it briefly when visiting them last summer, but, it looked neat.

...yeah, gun puns are everywhere, I saw.

Oh, good. Got to love when information given to you is wrong. Is there at least an in-game reason for them to be wrong (a-la the Cubis Sisters trying to deliberately trick you, and being bad at it)?

Honestly, while discovery is nice, there's nothing wrong with looking up mechanics and stuff on a wiki. I'd rather know how a game works so that I can have fun with it, rather than bashing my head against a metaphorical wall for weeks on end because I just can't figure it out. If I've reached a point where my not knowing is getting in the way of fun, I have no qualms about seeking answers. It's cool if I can figure stuff out for myself , but there becomes a point where you just ask yourself "Am I enjoying myself while trying to figure this all out and putting in all this time?"

Yeah, invisible synergy and stuff mechanics can be irritating. If they telly you when you have them, at least, it's not quite as bad, but whe it's just "get these random items and hope they mix"... it's frustrating. I mean, I'm sure some people love it, but I at least like to know the vague mechanics, even if it's just "synergises with X in some way".

LaZodiac

2019-01-25, 08:19 AM

It's time for some accidental plot progression!

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis [5] Fort Toughboy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1FpWaVYML4)

Video Length: 49:06

Yeah these get pretty long and I'm not sure what, if anything, to cut...

But yeah, starting us off this episode, we go into some previous areas we've been in search of treasure! We find a mysterious glass pumpkin made by our resident perfectly normal soldier Deneb, and also a cool dragon shield inside a crate. Robbery at it's finest, but it's for a good cause; mine. We also uh...sold all of our Alters of Resurrection and kicking out all the previous party members we had, replacing them with patrons! We've got a dragon tamer (mostly so she can generate the stats she needs for Knight/Valkyrie), we've got an archer, we've got a cleric in training, and of course we have a ninja who is way cooler than Kamui ever was. I also uh...managed to do the memory editing needed to remind Leon his name is actually Vecna (thanks again to Pinkhair for the assist on this).

Also I said we'd see the emblems at the end of the video...I edited it out since it took WAY too long for no reason oops. We'll see them at the beginning of next video. But yeah let's actually talk about what happens today, since a lot does! We head to fort Formido to do our two pronged assault as Rictor informed us! It goes well, as we fight our way up this massive ocean-side fortress with only a small group of eight. Things felt a bit touch and go, but we managed to pull through thanks to the power of team work and gravity. We also found a cool Dragon Gem Sword, which...I think makes enemy dragons take a morale unbonus when nearby? The game is very vague about it and the wiki is a different shade of vague.

However, once we finish slaughtering near everyone in the fort, we get captured in our investigation of said fort! It turns out Nichart Briffaut, the loser knight that abandoned all his men to die as part of some zany scheme to capture us, has...captured us with a zany scheme. He wants what we know...but of course, we know nothing. We are a child who was just directed towards this fort and told "go kill" and so we did. He leaves us to rot in the prison, that apparently floods and I know that's a real prison design people did but wow that must be messy huh. However, we're saved from our watery grave by Cybil, a perfectly trustworthy looking sorceress lady, and her ninja friend Shivan. All we need to do is pledge our loyalty to her and we're saved! I'm sure this won't come back to bite us.

And that's it for today actually. Join us next time, for...what I intended to do today. Oops. Hope you all enjoyed!

jindra34

2019-01-25, 09:59 AM

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-25, 02:55 PM

Woo, Vecna! Patron god of evil secrets and YouTube let's play videos.

Unit
Counter Kills
Shield Bash Kills

Gaston
0
0

Allos (retired)
1
0

Blue
0
1

Celestine
0
0

DataNinja
0
0

Deneb
0
1

Flauros (retired)
0
0

Ivanna
0
0

Kamui (retired)
0
0

Thelma (retired)
0
0

Trobby
0
0

Vecna (formerly Leon)
0
0

DataNinja

2019-01-25, 03:57 PM

For cutting, what you could always do is speed "non-essential" things up, and then slow down when it comes down to more significant things, like killing blows, or whatnot. However, I do recognize that that would either require A) post-commentary, which would lose something of the visceral reactions, or B) talking about things in more general terms "okay, so my plans are to send X, Y, and Z over to the right to take out the enemy wizard, and then..." which allows you to speed up visuals underneath the audio, because you aren't talking about specific events. Then, when you have comments about specifics, you could slow it back down to regular speed. It... definitely would be a lot more work, though.

So, dunno if you want me to reset kill counts based on units being renamed, or have them separate, or only keep the new units, or what. For now, I've just struck out the names, and put the new-names count separate in brackets so it's easy to remember if I need to change it. I... did have to guess on who turned into the Tamer and who the Archer, admittedly. I might have got that wrong. (I do appreciate that you chose the Ninja for me, though. :smallamused: )

Postscript: Oh. I see. It's not a rename, it's full new units? Ah, oops, in that case, I'll just... wipe the slate clean for everyone but Deneb and Gaston, and they'll all be treated as fresh starts. And we can just forget about those other guys.

If the shield/set turns the wearer into a dragon, or counts them as it, or whatever... wouldn't it be better to give it to anybody except the Dragon Tamer, so that the Tamer can give bonuses to them? (Assuming, of course, that they can't give bonuses to themselves, and also that I'm not misinterpreting what it does.)

Do we need a Friendly Fire/I Didn't Mean To Target That Counter? :smalltongue:

...yeah, we might.

Well, uh, guess Fire Emblem mode has been turned on, then. At least until we get more Altars, I suppose. :smallamused:

...I'll be honest. I was hoping for a Kraken to come out from the water-door and eat the guy you pushed in

Unit
Kills

Gaston
6

Deneb
2

DataNinja
3

Blue
1

Celestine
1

Trobby
0

Vecna
1

Ivanna
0

LaZodiac

2019-01-25, 05:31 PM

Ah welcome back to hitting things you didn't intend to, featuring Zodi. And yes the figuring out the path that weapons/spells/abilities use is annoying and slightly random. Though Gaston hitting the floor he was standing on was funny. Also that is a lot of accuracy, but its also normal for that spell. Also its funny how tactically any fight here will end up with the player defending the fort area from the enemies, because comedy.

So enemy AI; 1. Pick target randomly from everyone you can hit. With Gaston getting about 4x wieght of targeting. If no one is in range then pick targets from entire army.
2.Move to 'optimal' position, with ranged units considereding optimal position to be as far away as possible while still not running into arc problems.
3.Attack/cast/do whatever.

And there is Blue's one kill on the way to being a priest. Clerics don't have a max kill count thankfully.

Right, it's Cleric+ that needs to be careful of how many murders they do.

Woo, Vecna! Patron god of evil secrets and YouTube let's play videos.

Unit
Counter Kills
Shield Bash Kills

Gaston
0
0

Allos (retired)
1
0

Blue
0
1

Celestine
0
0

DataNinja
0
0

Deneb
0
1

Flauros (retired)
0
0

Ivanna
0
0

Kamui (retired)
0
0

Thelma (retired)
0
0

Trobby
0
0

Vecna (formerly Leon)
0
0

I legitimately don't remember if Nails of Vecna is on this forum but if he is I hope he enjoys the love he's getting.

For cutting, what you could always do is speed "non-essential" things up, and then slow down when it comes down to more significant things, like killing blows, or whatnot. However, I do recognize that that would either require A) post-commentary, which would lose something of the visceral reactions, or B) talking about things in more general terms "okay, so my plans are to send X, Y, and Z over to the right to take out the enemy wizard, and then..." which allows you to speed up visuals underneath the audio, because you aren't talking about specific events. Then, when you have comments about specifics, you could slow it back down to regular speed. It... definitely would be a lot more work, though.

So, dunno if you want me to reset kill counts based on units being renamed, or have them separate, or only keep the new units, or what. For now, I've just struck out the names, and put the new-names count separate in brackets so it's easy to remember if I need to change it. I... did have to guess on who turned into the Tamer and who the Archer, admittedly. I might have got that wrong. (I do appreciate that you chose the Ninja for me, though. :smallamused: )

Postscript: Oh. I see. It's not a rename, it's full new units? Ah, oops, in that case, I'll just... wipe the slate clean for everyone but Deneb and Gaston, and they'll all be treated as fresh starts. And we can just forget about those other guys.

If the shield/set turns the wearer into a dragon, or counts them as it, or whatever... wouldn't it be better to give it to anybody except the Dragon Tamer, so that the Tamer can give bonuses to them? (Assuming, of course, that they can't give bonuses to themselves, and also that I'm not misinterpreting what it does.)

Do we need a Friendly Fire/I Didn't Mean To Target That Counter? :smalltongue:

...yeah, we might.

Well, uh, guess Fire Emblem mode has been turned on, then. At least until we get more Altars, I suppose. :smallamused:

...I'll be honest. I was hoping for a Kraken to come out from the water-door and eat the guy you pushed in

Unit
Kills

Gaston
6

Deneb
2

DataNinja
3

Blue
0

Celestine
1

Trobby
0

Vecna
1

Ivanna
0

Leon changed his name to Vecna, everyone else (minus Deneb and the plot characters) are newly hired recruits. Also Blue killed the boss with his shield bash and gravity.

I wouldn't mind a friendly fire count if only because I'm genuinely curious how bad I am at this video game.

DataNinja

2019-01-25, 05:38 PM

Leon changed his name to Vecna, everyone else (minus Deneb and the plot characters) are newly hired recruits. Also Blue killed the boss with his shield bash and gravity.

Ah, right. Forgot to record that as a kill. Chalk one up for the ground. Even though you were discussing it, and all. It just feels to me more like that's just an "environmental hazard", at least in my mind. So I was registering it as "oh, yeah, that wasn't an active kill". But, it totally was. I will try and do better in that regards in the future.

And I'll work on getting a general-army Friendly Fire count up, too. Not recording it per-individual, though.

LaZodiac

2019-01-25, 05:43 PM

Ah, right. Forgot to record that as a kill. Chalk one up for the ground. Even though you were discussing it, and all. It just feels to me more like that's just an "environmental hazard", at least in my mind. So I was registering it as "oh, yeah, that wasn't an active kill". But, it totally was. I will try and do better in that regards in the future.

And I'll work on getting a general-army Friendly Fire count up, too. Not recording it per-individual, though.

Yeah not recording via individual makes sense for me.

Also I forget if you counted it since I'm bad at remembering but Deneb also shoved someone off the wall.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-25, 05:46 PM

I legitimately don't remember if Nails of Vecna is on this forum but if he is I hope he enjoys the love he's getting.

Nails is me! I use that name on blogger (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/), patreon (https://www.patreon.com/mfov/overview), discord (https://discord.gg/fBw45j) and tumblr (https://nailsofvecna.tumblr.com/) because I use those 'professionally'; everywhere else I'm ninja_prawn.

/shameless plug

LaZodiac

2019-01-25, 05:48 PM

Nails is me! I use that name on blogger (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/), patreon (https://www.patreon.com/mfov/overview), discord (https://discord.gg/fBw45j) and tumblr (https://nailsofvecna.tumblr.com/) because I use those 'professionally'; everywhere else I'm ninja_prawn.

/shameless plug

I feel like I knew that and am just dumb as ****.

Also speaking of dumb I've finally taken the plunge and sent a feeler out to a book editor. Once it gets back and we work out the rates, we'll begin professionally editing my book and that'll be coming...soonish, potentially.

EDIT: I took a look at your patreon Ninja_Prawn and can I get a ****in' uuuuuh wow that's um...a lot more than I expected. I didn't realize you were THAT digit of Vecna as well. It feels weird to have super huge popular people be interested in my garbage.

DataNinja

2019-01-25, 05:52 PM

Also I forget if you counted it since I'm bad at remembering but Deneb also shoved someone off the wall.

I will... double check when I go back and re-watch everything tonight to count friendly fire. She at least has one more kill than last time, but I can't remember if that was the wall one, or if she politely axed someone to get out of her way.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-25, 05:53 PM

Oh, what are you writing again? I think I missed that.

THAT digit of Vecna

No no, the Finger is the boss; he owns the company. Then we have four writers: me, Thumb, Palm and Knuckle, plus a social media manager (who doesn't have a goofy digit name). And we're not that super huge, yet.

LaZodiac

2019-01-25, 05:55 PM

Oh, what are you writing again? I think I missed that.

No no, the Finger is the boss; he owns the company. Then we have four writers: me, Thumb, Palm and Knuckle, plus a social media manager (who doesn't have a goofy digit name). And we're not that super huge, yet.

A modern fantasy novel.

I mean yeah but also I saw your stuff on a completely unrelated blog earlier today while bored online at work and you've got like...seven hundred patrons and stuff! That's huge!

It's just neat to realize that someone who is part of something real big is also interested in what I do.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-25, 06:04 PM

Eh, this forum is what got me into D&D and you're a colossus 'round these parts. Why wouldn't I be interested in your videos? And now I get to cheer on a bearded wizard in an island adventure!

DataNinja

2019-01-25, 07:45 PM

It's just neat to realize that someone who is part of something real big is also interested in what I do.
Remember, Zodi… famous/semi-famous/internet-famous/prolific/whatever people, all of them are still just people, with the same range of interests as anybody else. Being successful at something doesn't meant that you automatically have to only associate with things of the same popularity/reach/whatever as you. :smalltongue:

Eh, this forum is what got me into D&D and you're a colossus 'round these parts. Why wouldn't I be interested in your videos? And now I get to cheer on a bearded wizard in an island adventure!

To be fair, Title doesn't really mean anything. Sure, you do have people like Zodi, with all the LPing etc. content, but then you have people like me, where all my posts are mostly unproductive nothing. :smallamused:

(And, also, unrelated to the prior statement, sometimes the small communities are more fun, given that there's a lot more personal interaction available to the commonfolk like me. :smallwink: )

DataNinja

2019-01-26, 12:46 AM

Unit
Kills

Gaston
6

Deneb
2

DataNinja
3

Blue
1

Celestine
1

Trobby
0

Vecna
1

Ivanna
0

Friendly Fire: 4
Whoops, There Was A Thing In The Way: 7

Also, yep, Deneb only made the one kill, via gravity. Woo. At least I managed to get one of the two correct. But, yeah. Tracking added to the bottom of the chart.

LaZodiac

2019-01-28, 08:39 AM

Fresh off my birthday, it's time for some Ogre Tactics.

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis [6] As The Fairy Flies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpTTNHifF8s)

Video Length: 24:09

In this exciting episode, some time has passed with regards to training. Deneb has become a witch, with her and Vecna now having both missile and AOE spells. Missile spells, as you may recall, shoot forward like the shuriken and stuff. AOE spells do not, and as such as mooostly safe from friendly fire. Once we get enough int to grow the AOE we'll have to worry about it, but for now our AOE has a range of exactly one tile. We've also just been doing some growing in general with our units, slowly preparing for their future jobs.

Starting us off today in actual content wise, we get a cutscene where we finally see Naris Betraal, the villain we're contending with! It turns out Nichart is a fool and an idiot and is basically pointless in the grand scheme of things. Kinda explains why he let all his men die in a brilliant plan to capture a single teenager. We also learn that...Naris and his sorcerer minions are looking for Something. But what could that Something be? We also, though Gaston doesn't learn quite yet, learn what happened to Rick and company. No one learned that the forest they were going to march through is the undead super forest made when Lodis murdered everyone for not believing in their God. Oops, they got ripped asunder by zombies.

But Gaston doesn't know any of this. All Gaston knows is that this cute fairy is being attacked by a bunch of other creatures for Some Reason. And no one Gaston has ever helped has ever been evil, so we should assist her! And that's the bulk of the combat for this video, saving the fairy Glycinia. We slaughter the gremlins, fairies, and griffins hunting her and she gladly joins our party as the mascot character we'll never ever use. She also talks about her sister Lubina, but we'll deal with that at a later date. Also I definitely remove all of her equipment to give to all my other units because it's waaay too good to just leave on a fairy. Call it a reward for saving her.

But yeah, that's the episode! Sometimes these can go pretty quick! I hope you enjoyed, I'll see you guys next time!

-------

Two emblems this time, though both were gotten off screen.

Fist Fight: We got this before last time and I just never showed it! You get this by killing someone while you have no equipment on. It's very hard, near impossible really, to do this in a real fight, but you can do it in training! It makes your bare fists do way more damage! It doesn't say by how much but it was making 1 damage attacks do 50 damage so...yeah.

Miracle: This is a fun one we got before this video! If you survive an attack that would kill you at 5% current HP or less, you get this reward! It increases critical hit percent by 10%, a pretty good bonus if I do say so myself. It also has another effect; if you get the Bogus Hero emblem from training up 20 levels (which makes it impossible to crit) Miracle negates it. It doesn't matter which order you get these in, as long as you have Miracle you cannot be effected by Bogus Hero.

jindra34

2019-01-28, 09:33 AM

LaZodiac

2019-01-28, 09:43 AM

Huh. Since this is the first map where they show up did you notice that the enemies (and Glycinia) had GREEN bars below their HP bars? That means they use SP not MP and can't benefit from anything that would restore MP.
Mascot... sounds like a good word for Glycinia. Though high level fairies can get a minor attack spell.

I feel like I mentioned that at some point, but I'll bring it up at some point when I next record (I've recorded...a fair amount in advanced).

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-28, 11:21 AM

It's sad that fairies are so weak... :smallsigh: And like, unbalanced. What's the point of including a recruitable character that you never have any reason to use?

jindra34

2019-01-28, 11:47 AM

It's sad that fairies are so weak... :smallsigh: And like, unbalanced. What's the point of including a recruitable character that you never have any reason to use?

There are reasons to use Glycinia. Just not good reasons. Also fairies make somewhat decent tanks (quizically enough) and can act as support/healers when leveled up enough. Also Glycinia here does have a special with her sister that is somewhat decent.

LansXero

2019-01-28, 04:10 PM

It's sad that fairies are so weak... :smallsigh: And like, unbalanced. What's the point of including a recruitable character that you never have any reason to use?

Completing a regular run through of the game is fairly easy; you dont really need to do more than spam named chars at things until they die, for the large majority of it. So variety and quirky options are a welcome change of pace when on a re-run, considering this is one of those games with more than one ending.

tonberrian

2019-01-28, 04:28 PM

Mc + 7 fairies! Do it!

DataNinja

2019-01-28, 06:01 PM

I mean, when it comes to games, I do like knowing the names of the enemies. I get how it'd be weird in real life, but, to me it's a worldbuilding thing. The example that comes to mind for me is I love how all of the Cipher Peons in Pokémons Coliseum and XD have names, rather than just "Generic Grunt". Just gives some sense of livelihood to the world

Not really very much to talk about today, but, Trobby is eking up there in kills. I'll probably, when we get further along, do a graph of kills-over-time or something. And then we can see Blue's flatline. :smalltongue:

Unit
Kills

Gaston
6

Deneb
4

DataNinja
4

Blue
1

Celestine
1

Trobby
2

Vecna
3

Ivanna
0

Friendly Fire: 4
Whoops, There Was A Thing In The Way: 7

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-28, 06:28 PM

I mean, when it comes to games, I do like knowing the names of the enemies.

I like it too. The world feels more complete when details like that are added. I guess it would be out of place in a game where the player's POV is limited to what the character sees/knows but, in a game like this, the player is an omniscient god. We even get to see cutscenes that Gaston isn't present for! Of course we'd know people's names.

DataNinja

2019-01-28, 06:48 PM

I like it too. The world feels more complete when details like that are added. I guess it would be out of place in a game where the player's POV is limited to what the character sees/knows but, in a game like this, the player is an omniscient god. We even get to see cutscenes that Gaston isn't present for! Of course we'd know people's names.

Granted, we still don't know names until we're told them in cutscenes. Not even our own. :smalltongue:
(I still love all the descriptor-names they give.)

jindra34

2019-01-28, 07:49 PM

Mc + 7 fairies! Do it!

How would you like an FE game with 7 herons/dancers that can also heal. And are archers. Because once you put time into that team thats about where you end up. Which puts an emphasis on how EASY this game is that that is considered a 'challenge' run.

Anteros

2019-01-28, 08:39 PM

How would you like an FE game with 7 herons/dancers that can also heal. And are archers. Because once you put time into that team thats about where you end up. Which puts an emphasis on how EASY this game is that that is considered a 'challenge' run.

Well...archers are completely broken in every iteration of a Tactics Ogre game...so I'm not sure how fair that is. It's much harder to play with a balanced party than it is to just have a team of archers and insta-gib anyone who gets close to you.

Aeson

2019-01-28, 08:40 PM

Yep, Cybil's clearly one of the "good guys," here. No red flags whatsoever due to her demanding an unspecified service in exchange for taking all of about five seconds to release you from your chains so you won't drown in the prison cell and then declining to provide any real information on what it is she wants of you.

Interesting that the red-hatted "Young Sorceress" is apparently named Lethe, the river of the Greek underworld whose waters erased the memories that the spirits of the dead carried from their past lives, or a spirit of forgetfulness and oblivion associated with the aforementioned river.

Malicia? Clearly someone neither important nor malevolent, malicious, evil, or antagonistic. Must be the guy's personal chef or something like that, and he's just wondering about what's for dinner.

Somewhat unrelatedly, I'm a bit curious how Gaston picked up that emblem for persuasion, considering how he responded to the bandit archer whose parents were killed when Lodis invaded. "Well, that was years ago and isn't relevant to this current confrontation between me, a knight of Lodis and therefore an embodiment of the organization which did your family great harm, and you..." Suggests he's a little lacking in empathy, or at least in understanding of what motivates people and of why people hold grudges. I would have been amused if, despite that and the fight which followed it, you'd recruited her into the party, though.

jindra34

2019-01-28, 09:14 PM

Somewhat unrelatedly, I'm a bit curious how Gaston picked up that emblem for persuasion, considering how he responded to the bandit archer whose parents were killed when Lodis invaded. "Well, that was years ago and isn't relevant to this current confrontation between me, a knight of Lodis and therefore an embodiment of the organization which did your family great harm, and you..." Suggests he's a little lacking in empathy, or at least in understanding of what motivates people and of why people hold grudges. I would have been amused if, despite that and the fight which followed it, you'd recruited her into the party, though.
If a map requires you to defeat someone, you can't recruit them. Otherwise people would do pacifist runs.

LaZodiac

2019-01-28, 09:22 PM

There are reasons to use Glycinia. Just not good reasons. Also fairies make somewhat decent tanks (quizically enough) and can act as support/healers when leveled up enough. Also Glycinia here does have a special with her sister that is somewhat decent.

Dodge tank is valid tank.

I mean, when it comes to games, I do like knowing the names of the enemies. I get how it'd be weird in real life, but, to me it's a worldbuilding thing. The example that comes to mind for me is I love how all of the Cipher Peons in Pokémons Coliseum and XD have names, rather than just "Generic Grunt". Just gives some sense of livelihood to the world

Not really very much to talk about today, but, Trobby is eking up there in kills. I'll probably, when we get further along, do a graph of kills-over-time or something. And then we can see Blue's flatline. :smalltongue:

Unit
Kills

Gaston
6

Deneb
4

DataNinja
4

Blue
1

Celestine
1

Trobby
2

Vecna
3

Ivanna
0

Friendly Fire: 4
Whoops, There Was A Thing In The Way: 7

Yeah I love that aspect too, honestly.

Also okay, that's four murders using physical weapons. I need to get you some magic/shuriken kills for No Reason At All.

Yep, Cybil's clearly one of the "good guys," here. No red flags whatsoever due to her demanding an unspecified service in exchange for taking all of about five seconds to release you from your chains so you won't drown in the prison cell and then declining to provide any real information on what it is she wants of you.

Interesting that the red-hatted "Young Sorceress" is apparently named Lethe, the river of the Greek underworld whose waters erased the memories that the spirits of the dead carried from their past lives, or a spirit of forgetfulness and oblivion associated with the aforementioned river.

Malicia? Clearly someone neither important nor malevolent, malicious, evil, or antagonistic. Must be the guy's personal chef or something like that, and he's just wondering about what's for dinner.

Somewhat unrelatedly, I'm a bit curious how Gaston picked up that emblem for persuasion, considering how he responded to the bandit archer whose parents were killed when Lodis invaded. "Well, that was years ago and isn't relevant to this current confrontation between me, a knight of Lodis and therefore an embodiment of the organization which did your family great harm, and you..." Suggests he's a little lacking in empathy, or at least in understanding of what motivates people and of why people hold grudges. I would have been amused if, despite that and the fight which followed it, you'd recruited her into the party, though.

The game's writing is blunt but powerful and I love it, honestly.

The emblem Gaston starts with is apparently determined by one of the choices in the six fates! We picked the one that gives us Arbitration, so clearly Gaston DOES have a charismatic side...he's just **** when it comes to the church.

If a map requires you to defeat someone, you can't recruit them. Otherwise people would do pacifist runs.

He was making a half joke half observation about gameplay and story segregation :smallwink:

DataNinja

2019-01-28, 10:16 PM

Also okay, that's four murders using physical weapons. I need to get you some magic/shuriken kills for No Reason At All.
Ooh, is there Magic Ninja? :smalltongue:
(This is a rhetorical question, of course. I'm just enjoying going through this as it comes. :smallwink: )

LaZodiac

2019-01-28, 10:18 PM

Ooh, is there Magic Ninja? :smalltongue:
(This is a rhetorical question, of course. I'm just enjoying going through this as it comes. :smallwink: )

Something like that! You'll see once we get there.

In all honesty I'm probably gonna eventually make you a swordmaster and I'll end up hiring other people to show off the other classes? We'll see. The game basically wants you to have 16 people.

DataNinja

2019-01-28, 10:28 PM

Something like that! You'll see once we get there.

In all honesty I'm probably gonna eventually make you a swordmaster and I'll end up hiring other people to show off the other classes? We'll see. The game basically wants you to have 16 people.

Whatever boats your float, General. :smallamused:
DataSwordmaster doesn't quite have the same ring to it, though.

I am excited to see what else lies within the depths of the Unknown Classes, though.

LansXero

2019-01-28, 10:30 PM

The game's writing is blunt but powerful and I love it, honestly.

Thats my favorite part of the Tactics Ogre series. The manga for LUCT was also pretty cool.

LaZodiac

2019-01-28, 10:32 PM

Thats my favorite part of the Tactics Ogre series. The manga for LUCT was also pretty cool.

The line from Final Fantasy Tactics where someone says "die in obscurity" is the only time FFT even approaches the level Tactics Ogre hits.

LansXero

2019-01-28, 10:36 PM

The line from Final Fantasy Tactics where someone says "die in obscurity" is the only time FFT even approaches the level Tactics Ogre hits.

Speaking of which, and I know there is a long way to go, have you decided on an ending? will it go by voting?

LaZodiac

2019-01-28, 10:39 PM

Speaking of which, and I know there is a long way to go, have you decided on an ending? will it go by voting?

It'll go by voting. We'll cover that more indepthly when we reach it in a couple updates.

tonberrian

2019-01-29, 12:34 AM

I'm pretty sure that you get enough named characters that you only need to keep your peeps Ricter gives you and recruit, like, a Hawkman and a Dragon and Deneb and hit the 16 peeps you need to get through the game. Not that certain battles won't be tense with the backup squad, but you can do it.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-29, 03:01 AM

The line from Final Fantasy Tactics where someone says "die in obscurity" is the only time FFT even approaches the level Tactics Ogre hits.

From what I've seen so far, there's just no comparison between the two games when it comes to dialogue and story.

And I much prefer thoughtful, principled Ramza to confused-child Gaston. :smalltongue:

LaZodiac

2019-01-29, 08:16 AM

From what I've seen so far, there's just no comparison between the two games when it comes to dialogue and story.

And I much prefer thoughtful, principled Ramza to confused-child Gaston. :smalltongue:

I mean do keep in mind we're still technically in the part of the story where Ramza is whistling on grass and listening to Delita all but say "kill the rich, spill their blood" and being like "man I love my good friend who'll never betray me because we're both cool and nice. The world is good and not corrupt."

Incidentely in the perspective grand scheme of things...Gaston is Delita, not Ramza.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-29, 08:54 AM

Incidentely in the perspective grand scheme of things...Gaston is Delita, not Ramza.

I guess that's related to what I mean by 'prefer'. I don't think I'd want to play FFT from Delita's perspective, you know?

LaZodiac

2019-01-29, 09:01 AM

I guess that's related to what I mean by 'prefer'. I don't think I'd want to play FFT from Delita's perspective, you know?

I would. Ramza's story is kinda disjointed and boring. It has good side moments but it is on the whole kinda unexciting and plodding. Delita gets into wacky crime adventures in his quest for revolution. Of course do consider that I don't LIKE FFT very much, I greatly prefer FFTA.

That's not to say by the way that Gaston won't be encountering some manner of ancient super evil or something. I won't spoil if we actually do or not, but it's pretty clear by now that Something is on the island, something more than just territory to fight over anyway.

LansXero

2019-01-29, 03:13 PM

Incidentely in the perspective grand scheme of things...Gaston is Delita, not Ramza.

Thats entirely up to your choices during the game, and canonically not at all. This is a prequel, after all, and who he grows up to be is as non-Delita as it gets.

DataNinja

2019-01-29, 03:28 PM

That's not to say by the way that Gaston won't be encountering some manner of ancient super evil or something. I won't spoil if we actually do or not, but it's pretty clear by now that Something is on the island, something more than just territory to fight over anyway.

Why is it never some ancient supergood being of, like, rainbows and cotton candy that gets buried, or sealed, or whatever? If Good(tm) people can get their acts together in order to bring the downfall of their superpowerful foe, Evil(tm) should be able to do the same thing. :smalltongue:

(This is more in general than addressing things that may-or-may-not occur in this game. Mostly because I have no idea where this is all going.)

tyckspoon

2019-01-29, 03:45 PM

Why is it never some ancient supergood being of, like, rainbows and cotton candy that gets buried, or sealed, or whatever? If Good(tm) people can get their acts together in order to bring the downfall of their superpowerful foe, Evil(tm) should be able to do the same thing. :smalltongue:

(This is more in general than addressing things that may-or-may-not occur in this game. Mostly because I have no idea where this is all going.)

That's not an uncommon counterpart to the Sealed Evil, actually - there's a number of stories where the heroes have to recover the pieces of and rebuild the Shattered Artifact of the Great Hero or learn the Seven Lost Ancient Spells of Binding or something in order to have sufficient power to re-seal or ultimately defeat the BBEG (see also the plot structure of basically every Zelda game, and there's a textbook example in Dragon Quest 8 with freeing the Godbird Empyrea.)

Ninja_Prawn

2019-01-29, 04:11 PM

That's not an uncommon counterpart to the Sealed Evil, actually

Yeah, Sealed Good (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SealedGoodInACan) is definitely a thing. I guess you don't see it quite as often because it undercuts the agency of a protagonist if they need to call in some other hero to get the job done. Also because taking lazy shortcuts to power by unsealing some ancient secret is the sort of thing a villain would do. But I've definitely seen examples of the good version done well. Generally when the sealed hero is extremely charismatic and funny, so they become the 'leading' character even if they're not the designated protagonist.

DataNinja

2019-01-29, 04:23 PM

That's not an uncommon counterpart to the Sealed Evil, actually - there's a number of stories where the heroes have to recover the pieces of and rebuild the Shattered Artifact of the Great Hero or learn the Seven Lost Ancient Spells of Binding or something in order to have sufficient power to re-seal or ultimately defeat the BBEG (see also the plot structure of basically every Zelda game, and there's a textbook example in Dragon Quest 8 with freeing the Godbird Empyrea.)

That's fair. I guess I didn't really think of Zelda, given that the Triforce or whatnot tends to be able to be used for Good or Evil. (Granted, there are the lesser Plot Coupons along the way. But, those don't feel to be in the same league as the World Shattering Bad Guy(tm).) But, it's also the case, I'm sure, that I just haven't experienced the correct media. Given that there's a whole trope page around it. :smalltongue:

And, yeah, it is fair that if there's something where it's on the level as "all civilization will fall if the darkness is unleashed" it could be very anticlimactic to end up playing. Sometimes clichés are there for a reason, after all.

HalfTangible

2019-01-29, 04:27 PM

Yeah, Sealed Good (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SealedGoodInACan) is definitely a thing. I guess you don't see it quite as often because it undercuts the agency of a protagonist if they need to call in some other hero to get the job done. Also because taking lazy shortcuts to power by unsealing some ancient secret is the sort of thing a villain would do. But I've definitely seen examples of the good version done well. Generally when the sealed hero is extremely charismatic and funny, so they become the 'leading' character even if they're not the designated protagonist.

Sealed Good is usually unsealed early on in the story so you can still have some conflict (and/or requires some great journey to awaken to prevent that whole lazy power-up angle.), whereas Sealed Evil is either released near the end, just threatened to be released, or is the inciting incident of the plot. How much power the Sealed Good or Sealed Evil has depends on the exact plotline you're going with.

tyckspoon

2019-01-29, 05:42 PM

That's fair. I guess I didn't really think of Zelda, given that the Triforce or whatnot tends to be able to be used for Good or Evil. (Granted, there are the lesser Plot Coupons along the way. But, those don't feel to be in the same league as the World Shattering Bad Guy(tm).) But, it's also the case, I'm sure, that I just haven't experienced the correct media. Given that there's a whole trope page around it. :smalltongue:

Wasn't thinking about the Triforce itself, although it sometimes plays that role, but the first half of a Zelda game is usually built around collecting what you need to unseal/recharge/activate/whatever the Master Sword or whatever is playing its role in that game. You know, the Sword of Evil's Bane without which you literally cannot even harm Gannon most of the time :smallbiggrin: Zelda herself and/or the Light Arrows sometimes have that function too.

DataNinja

2019-01-29, 06:40 PM

Wasn't thinking about the Triforce itself, although it sometimes plays that role, but the first half of a Zelda game is usually built around collecting what you need to unseal/recharge/activate/whatever the Master Sword or whatever is playing its role in that game. You know, the Sword of Evil's Bane without which you literally cannot even harm Gannon most of the time :smallbiggrin: Zelda herself and/or the Light Arrows sometimes have that function too.

Yeah, that's fair. But the difference is that all of those still need a wielder/aid in the hero, whereas the typical All Bringing Evil can typically just singlehandedly bring the world to its knees or whatnot, if it's released. It's usually not just, like, a sword that is particularly potent at slaying good guys. But, again, I do understand how that would be fairly problematic for a narrative. And gameplay.
(Although, I do think it'd be funny if it turned out that the Artifact of Evil or whatever that was being unearthed at one point was just a sentimental heirloom. The real danger was the guy unearthing it all along.)

Anyways, this is probably going way too far off topic as is. :smalltongue:

LaZodiac

2019-02-01, 08:30 AM

Oh hey another Lodis, whodda thunkit.

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis [7] S W A M P (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf7VVVipPYs)

Video Length: 30:59

In this episode, we make our way over to a swamp to continue our march towards...our destination, which is supposed to be a mountain according to Cybil. Gaston is confused, but he's nothing if not a follower. We're immediately ambushed by hawkmen! Hawkmen are interesting in that they're an extremely easy to get unit with perfect flight, but unlike fairies are actually decent! They're like violent, dwarfy elves and I kinda love that about them. I may at some point pick up an hawkman, just to have it. They specialize in hammers, but surprise-surprise, giving a unit capable of flight a bow is always a good idea. The fairies show this off, but like with most everything the hawkmen show it better. We also have to contend with some gryphens and some fairies, but overall this fight isn't all that problematic.

That said, it is a massive swamp in which we have very little actual ground to step on. Being submerged in water effectively cuts your stats in half, and while the enemies suffer this as well they can all fly so their movement isn't reduced at all. Luckily DataNinja is here to carry the slack, and also luckily we didn't waste any goth on an Octopus that would have excelled at this map in particular, thus tricking us into thinking it's a good unit. We also have Cybil on this map as a guest party member, wherein we learn she's a super powerful magic casting class known as a Sorceress. The Sorceress is a modified Siren, one of the strongest magic classes in the game. It's only real unique feature is that I think it gets access to one more utility spell than regular Siren's do, and is otherwise identical. That said, she does show off the general power of magic! Her spells do a ton of damage, and she's got a high enough int to make her AOE spells actually have a larger area of effect! It'll take awhile for our wizards to get that smart. And unlike most guest party members, Cybil REALLY contributes.

Once we slaughter that plot enforced random encounter, we actually have a moment to discuss with Cybil about what we're doing and who she is. As it turns out she's a secret police of the Pope of Lodisism, and she's here on a quest to discover a laser spear the mermaids who used to be the native inhabitants of Ovis island used in the totally justified and not at all garbage invasion of humans to the island. The laser spear eventually vanished, allowing humanity to gain the upper hand and reduce the mermaids to only a single area of the island. Thus, we're going to Urodela Cape to see about finding and politely asking a mermaid where they kept the laser spear. But before we can proceed, Shivan appears to warn us that soldiers are converging near Urodela Cape. We must go and slaughter them before they do anything that impedes our search for the laser spear!

I'm sure that'll work out wonderfully. Hope you all enjoyed, I'll see you all next time...for some fun!

------

Emblem time! Cybil has an emblem that hints towards how to get a Siren, so let's talk about it.

Philosopher's Stone: This requires you to kill two enemies or more in one cast. A simple thing, and you can even acquire it in training! But it also requires having enough int to gain AOF on your AOE spells. I can't actually find what thresholds are required, but whatever Cybil's int was in this is how much you need to get the full classic cross shape for magic. We will, at a later date, hire another lady soldier to become a Siren. Deneb has...other plans, as you'll see eventually.

LansXero

2019-02-01, 09:42 AM

Do ninjas not get their double attack thingie here? I keep getting KoL and the PSP remake mixed up, If so, then it might be a better idea to use him with a bow instead.

tonberrian

2019-02-01, 10:48 AM

Int threshold for AoE is 70, IIRC. Either that or 90, but I'm pretty sure it's 70.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-02-01, 03:08 PM

turns out she's a secret police of the Pope of Lodisism, and she's here on a quest to discover a laser spear the mermaids who used to be the native inhabitants of Ovis island used in the totally justified and not at all garbage invasion of humans to the island.

When I first read this (before watching the video), I assumed it was a humourous paraphrasing... I was wrong.

Is Celesine's long-range kill worth a style point? :smallconfused:

DataNinja

2019-02-01, 03:27 PM

Man, those Hawkmen sprites suuuuper remind me of FFXII: Revenant Wings' aegyl warriors.
https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheet_icons/1/300.png

Also, yeah, that's a lot of water.

You aren't the only one who thought our guest was about to shoot Ivanna.

One of these days you should really swap the Longsword and Tower Shield. Before your muscle memory finally gets mostly used to it. :smalltongue:

Thankfully, she also has enough intelligence to not AoE your own troops, too.

I imagine you'd want to summon rain if, say, a lot of opponents were in swamps. Because apparently, according to the tooltip text, it can make people stuck in storms. And I'm sure there are other terrain effects, too. Like flooding in order to quench fire spells, or whatever.

And it turns out the Ninja wasn't really useful at all after all. :smalltongue:

Unit
Kills

Gaston
7

Deneb
6

DataNinja
4

Blue
1

Celestine
4

Trobby
2

Vecna
4

Ivanna
0

Glycinia
0

Friendly Fire: 4
Whoops, An Object Got In The Way: 7

tonberrian

2019-02-01, 04:22 PM

Unfortunately, you can't set the land on fire.

Well, you can, but all it does is convert one tile type to another - grass and snow tiles get converted to dirt tiles, and that's it. Which is useful because dirt tiles are pretty good for water, air, and earth aspected people.

Storms mostly just raise up the water level, and Sunlight can occasionally lower it. And being stuck in water without Swim sucks. I mean it sucks for swimmers, too, but everyone else sucks so much worse.

LaZodiac

2019-02-01, 06:31 PM

Do ninjas not get their double attack thingie here? I keep getting KoL and the PSP remake mixed up, If so, then it might be a better idea to use him with a bow instead.

The only unique things Ninjas get in this is the ability to throw shuriken.

When I first read this (before watching the video), I assumed it was a humourous paraphrasing... I was wrong.

Is Celesine's long-range kill worth a style point? :smallconfused:

The Lodis Inquisition needs a laser spear badly.

It's only one tile longer than the regular range so I say no.

Man, those Hawkmen sprites suuuuper remind me of FFXII: Revenant Wings' aegyl warriors.
https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheet_icons/1/300.png

Also, yeah, that's a lot of water.

You aren't the only one who thought our guest was about to shoot Ivanna.

One of these days you should really swap the Longsword and Tower Shield. Before your muscle memory finally gets mostly used to it. :smalltongue:

Thankfully, she also has enough intelligence to not AoE your own troops, too.

I imagine you'd want to summon rain if, say, a lot of opponents were in swamps. Because apparently, according to the tooltip text, it can make people stuck in storms. And I'm sure there are other terrain effects, too. Like flooding in order to quench fire spells, or whatever.

And it turns out the Ninja wasn't really useful at all after all. :smalltongue:

Unit
Kills

Gaston
7

Deneb
6

DataNinja
4

Blue
1

Celestine
4

Trobby
2

Vecna
4

Ivanna
0

Glycinia
0

Friendly Fire: 4
Whoops, An Object Got In The Way: 7

I knew I recognized the Hawkman sprite! Revenant Wings also really FEELS like an Ogre Battle game, though simplified, now that I think about it. Whoa, I'm blowing my mind here.

That is a point. I think if the water level rises to high you might die? I don't know.

DataNinja

2019-02-01, 06:56 PM

I knew I recognized the Hawkman sprite! Revenant Wings also really FEELS like an Ogre Battle game, though simplified, now that I think about it. Whoa, I'm blowing my mind here.
But also Realtime, and you can summon more forces into battle... :smalltongue:

I did enjoy it, though. (It's also the only FF game that I've played, truth be told.) So, that bodes well for liking how this playthrough will turn out. (Not that it hasn't been enjoyable so far.)

tonberrian

2019-02-02, 12:24 AM

That is a point. I think if the water level rises to high you might die? I don't know.

Nope! Everyone can tread water and sword at the same time. Not well, mind, but they can do it. Tide rolls in and everyone already in the water just get moved to the higher tile of water.

jindra34

2019-02-02, 10:20 AM

But also Realtime, and you can summon more forces into battle... :smalltongue:

Those are both true, to an extent, of actual Ogre Battle games.

LaZodiac

2019-02-02, 10:21 AM

Those are both true, to an extent, of actual Ogre Battle games.

Yeah that was basically what I was saying. Thinking on it...though it's not 100% accurate since it's more of a typical RTS than standard Ogre Battle, Revenant Wings is like...REALLY similar thinking about it and I can't get that thought out of my head now.

I need to tell my friend who wants more Ogre Battle to try it out.

DataNinja

2019-02-02, 11:44 AM

Those are both true, to an extent, of actual Ogre Battle games.

Ah, alright. I was not aware that this was not indicative of actual Ogre Battle games. I assumed that this was standard for the series. Oops.

LaZodiac

2019-02-02, 11:46 AM

Ah, alright. I was not aware that this was not indicative of actual Ogre Battle games. I assumed that this was standard for the series. Oops.

Aah. Yeah no, this is entirely dissimilar to classic Ogre Battle games. Ogre Battle is like...a quasi RTS where you control parties of JRPG units that get into one round JRPG battles with other units. It's super weird and fascinating.

DataNinja

2019-02-02, 12:53 PM

Aah. Yeah no, this is entirely dissimilar to classic Ogre Battle games. Ogre Battle is like...a quasi RTS where you control parties of JRPG units that get into one round JRPG battles with other units. It's super weird and fascinating.

Well, that does definitely sound super-weird, yes. :smalltongue:

LaZodiac

2019-02-04, 08:36 AM

It's time for a big one...

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis [8] The Mermaid Question (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0NxAfBAZ5o)

Video Length: 41:01

Starting us off today, we change Blue into a Cleric as he was always meant to be, and then we march off to Urodela to deal with those enemy troops just kinda lingering around here. Immediately we are ambushed by ninjas seeking revenge for Lodis slaughtering his entire family. I'm getting a strange sense of deja vu here. This horde of ninjas also has a Witch, which is what I'm intending to turn Deneb into later. We'll talk about that more later. We also have in this stage someone with the Necklace of Resistance. It's uh...not very clear about it, but this accessory makes you IMMUNE to magic! I believe this means it also makes you immune to healing as well, but I'll need to test that later. Finally, the leader ninja has a matsukaze, a powerful two handed sword with wind element.

This is a pretty interesting encounter, mostly in that ninjas are as you'd expect fast and fairly deadly, but also decently fragile. Cybil's supportive nuking with magic is pretty useful, as are our own wizards. Since we've turned Blue into a Cleric we're down a melee fighter as well, so things can get a little hectic. But we're able to handle things fairly easily, since I'm not actually THAT bad at tactics...mostly.

With all the ninjas dead at our feet, we discover the actual soldiers who were hanging out in the city! It's Rictor and Orson and Others, our old buddies! We have a...discussion about just what exactly Gaston is doing. Gaston questions why Rictor is really here, likely suspecting it may have to do with the spear. Rictor seems to not know at all. But he does recognize Cybil for what she is, and is super pissed that she's hear. The pope using secret police wizard spies to manipulate the world from the shadows is not something God would approve of! Which...I mean is true. But then Rick goes off on Cybil for being a poor as well. Damnit Rictor, I like you, don't be like that. We also learn through this conversation what, exactly, Gaston is intending with his actions. He wants to see what he can do without the support of the noble family that took him in, or the backing of Rictor and Felis. He wants to go his own way. Rictor calls his bluff on this since he is basically just following along with the random pope spy who saved us. Rictor stomps off, deciding that we'll be enemies from now on...

Later that night it begins to storm, and Cybil has taken us to a shake to work out what we need to do next about this mermaid thing. But first she gives us a rather large and interesting speech about choice. Not choosing is a choice, and riding the currants of your life isn't UN valid, but it is a weak way to exist. Cybil then shows her manner of thinking is...a bit flawed, because when we ask her how she became a pope spy she mentions she was brought in by the age of six and basically raised to be what she is. She frames this as her choice, and while it is true that she COULD have chosen to not be a pope spy when they asked her...she was raised in that environment. They made it so her choice really wasn't a choice at all. She doesn't seem to get that...I mean, she gets to to some degree, but she doesn't realize it on a conscious level.

Our conversation is interrupted by the sailor we hired to take us to mermaid town showing up. As it turns out this storm is too hard to sail in and also hey, we have rules about messing with mermaids. They're powerful demi-humans with long spears and strong magic. Don't mess with mermaids, especially since they live near the water where they excel and you drown. So don't mess with mermaids. We may think with our money and logic that we can easily deal with these mermaids...but rules exist for a reason. Cybil is of course less than pleased with this, so the sailor gives us an idea. Why don't we just torture a mermaid? Her allies will be drawn in by her singing for help, then we can follow them back to mermaid town! This plan is flawless! Cybil immediately takes it as canon and what we need to do, and Gaston is...a little squiggly about it.

And it is here that we receive a choice. It's a bit more nuanced than it really appears and than I really present it, but...it is, effectively, a choice between two options. Are you pro or con on the torture of mermaids? This'll be decided by all of you in a vote that lasts until Wednesday so I have time to record and edit. I won't be discussing the actual like, nuance behind the vote because I don't want to bias the vote one way or another, until you've all voted and we're firmly locked into our path. But yeah, this is the Big Choice. The answer we give here will determine the outcome of the entire game, and one of these are canon! None of you will learn what is canon until the end of the game though, just for my own personal amusement.

But yeah. Hope you all enjoyed! See you all next time...and Don't Forget To Vote. (https://www.strawpoll.me/17364879)

Remember. Not choosing is it's own choice.

jindra34

2019-02-04, 09:44 AM

The reason that most enemies don't pallete swap is that the designers used it to mark enemies with a little something special. Normally ninjas CAN'T equip Bane magic like nightmare.
And yes Fascination has the worst accuracy of pretty much everything in the game.
Archery in this game is VERY, VERY easy to bad at.
Also remember immunity to magic means immunity to heal spells.

Yeah this kinda gets into class/king vs. pope conflict. Also Richtor made a very clean deflection here. Cybil may not be trustworthy, but she is a good teacher. And see here is something interesting about Lodis, almost all branches of it are willing to accept people of pretty much any nationality. And yes, the only DECISIVE OPTION in the game, and it barely looks like a choice. There is a reason they preface this with Cybil's speech.

LaZodiac

2019-02-04, 09:48 AM

Ninja_Prawn

2019-02-04, 04:10 PM

Nooo! My staff!! How will I teach young whippersnappers a lesson now?

DataNinja

2019-02-04, 06:40 PM

If you hear ninja footsteps, it's not a good ninja. :smalltongue:

Man, all this good ninja equipment. I want some. :smallwink:

...apparently to charm you hold up a pink triforce.

I imagine the palatte swaps are mostly to mark "yo, this is the boss, so you can do whatever accordingly".

That is... indeed plot. I can definitely see what they're going for. Though, yes, it maybe does ring a bit hollow to speak about choices when you've not really had any up to that point in the game, plotwise.

Unit
Kills

Gaston
8

Deneb
7

DataNinja
4

Blue
1

Celestine
5

Trobby
2

Vecna
7

Ivanna
1

Glycinia
0

Friendly Fire: 4
Whoops, An Object Got In The Way: 8

LaZodiac

2019-02-04, 07:29 PM

Nooo! My staff!! How will I teach young whippersnappers a lesson now?

We'll get you another stick.

DataNinja

2019-02-04, 07:34 PM

LaZodiac

2019-02-04, 07:35 PM

Oh, also, while I remember... if a Witch persuades one of your members, do you just... lose them after the battle? Does it basically become a one-hit-kill move, for the purposes of keeping them in your party? Or can you get them back if you don't kill them?

Their use of the word persuade for Fascinate is a really, really dumb thing to do for this exact reason.

Persuade is something only the player can do. Fascinate is a Charm ability that briefly makes them on the side that Charm's them. So it's a status effect, not a stealing of your unit.

DataNinja

2019-02-04, 07:38 PM

Their use of the word persuade for Fascinate is a really, really dumb thing to do for this exact reason.

Persuade is something only the player can do. Fascinate is a Charm ability that briefly makes them on the side that Charm's them. So it's a status effect, not a stealing of your unit.

Ah, gotcha. So it's a temporary thing where their allegiances are switched. That is... much less infuriating, yes. I was really concerned that it'd be a mechanic where you'd have to persuade them back if you wanted to keep the units you invested much into.

tonberrian

2019-02-05, 03:15 AM

Deneb can do this too! And hers is unique and better. I forget exactly how, but I believe it's significantly enhanced accuracy.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-02-05, 04:40 AM

Her pumpkins bring all the boys to the yard?

jindra34

2019-02-05, 02:16 PM

Deneb can do this too! And hers is unique and better. I forget exactly how, but I believe it's significantly enhanced accuracy.

More or less. I've already promised to cover the nitty gritty when we get to the point of special her.

LaZodiac

2019-02-06, 08:11 AM

I don't know what you guys are talking about Deneb is obviously just a regular normal soldier. Anyway hey a new A Taste Of.

A Taste Of: Battle Chef Brigade (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBZYHv882fc)

Video Length: 13:32

Finally, a food based game for this food themed first impression show. Battle Chef Brigade is a really cool side scrolling beat em up game that also is a match three puzzle game centered around cooking monsters up in an iron chef style food fight. It's really stylish and super cool and I love it. It's also intimidating as heck! Definitely give it a try though.

DataNinja

2019-02-06, 01:46 PM

Well, it's certainly got appealing visuals, at least off the bat. A+ for piquing one's interest.

Overall, looks pretty cool. Amazing how many unique games come out of the cooking conceit.

Qwertystop

2019-02-06, 10:01 PM

Ah, this game. Played it for a while but it had a pretty big difficulty spike, and I stopped having fun trying to eke out a few more points to actually win a challenge.

LaZodiac

2019-02-08, 08:31 AM

Can't escape from crossing fate.

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis [9] Gremlins Are Bad (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ1_QbIC36U)

Video Length: 39:41

The votes are in and all of you have voted for the...obviously correct of the two choices. We're going down route B, telling Cybil that her plan is stupid. Now, why IS it stupid, anyway? Well first off, let's go down the points in reverse order. Assuming everything works out and we DO follow mermaids back to mermaid town after torturing a mermaid (which isn't 100% likely) we're left with a situation where...yeah, we've found mermaid town, but they likely will hate us entirely. Secondly, there's no real reason to assume any mermaids will APPEAR when we torture one. That's always a concern. Additionally there is the problem of actually finding a mermaid in the first place. It's not like they're SUPER rare, but they only live in one localized area of the island and are justifiably insular due to the colonial nonsense that the mainland enforced on them. And finally, with that in mind...this idea's basic premise is entirely flawed because if we find a mermaid WE CAN JUST ASK THE MERMAID WHERE SHE LIVES. It might be hard to convince her to tell us, and we may need to follow HER, but...this entire plan is predicated on finding a mermaid. If we find a mermaid we can AT LEAST TRY non torture methods. Jumping immediately to torture a mermaid is...ridiculous.

That being said, I buried the lead on this one. Not on purpose mind you, I didn't know until AFTER setting it all up. I checked out what happens if you pick A. Gaston says he can't think of something...but he asks Cybil to give him time to. Cybil agrees. Looking ahead down this route I've seen no one ever take...we never actually torture a mermaid at all. The entire point of this question was not to see if we would actually torture a mermaid or not, but to see how we react to CYBIL wanting to torture a mermaid. Do we tell her off like we do here, cutting our ties with her? Or do we still work WITH her. We still say no to torture, but it's a soft no. It's basically a maybe. And that's the REAL deciding element here. Do we show Cybil that we're still willing to be her lap dog or not. Which still, of course, carries the problem of SHE SPENDS LIKE THREE MINUTES giving a speech about THE IMPORTANCE OF CHOICE. By doing all of that, it keys the player who is paying attention (and it's a plot based tactics JRPG, they're PAYING attention) in to the fact that Cybil is, absolutely, a maniac. She literally tells you "choice is important don't do something just because fate decides it" and then follows it up with "but also follow my ever order without question". She's an idiot and a psychopath and I have to imagine the reason why people DID vote for her path was because they're playing devil's advocate or just want to see something that's not been done before. Because there is literally no reason, what so ever, to actually justify taking Cybil's path.

So. We tell Cybil off, and then head off to that old church were we woke up after being crossbow'd into the ocean. Eleanor is there, and she's VERY happy to see us. Gaston is very happy to see here, and if you don't see the relationship flaps flying high here then I don't know what to tell you. Regardless, we tell her that we'll be back for her some day. Much like every other non mermaid torture adjacent question, this really is a non-question. You pick the first choice because otherwise...nothing really happens except Eleanor ceases to matter. Of course, in this case...Eleanor ceasing to matter is kind of a big deal that I'll get into later.

Regardless of that, we leave and head off to the cave path that Gaston learned about somehow. Dragons and gremlins block our path, but our old friend Orson appears! He'll be assisting us, as it seems Rictor has sent him off to watch over us. Thus we begin the fight, and it's a hell of a fight honestly. Dragons are tough, decently strong, and have powerful breath weapons that increase in range as they gain intelligence. Thunder dragons can stun you with their breath, earth dragons can poison you. It's pretty nasty! I take this opportunity to recruit a dragon with Celestinee, who gladly joins our ranks and will likely be renamed as soon as I'm able. Then we enter gremlin hell. This is what the game means when it says they have evil blood.

After an...agonizingly long time killing two gremlins, we finally get a scene of Orson making it very clear. Rictor doesn't know jack all about the mermaid stick, they're really just here to investigate why things have gotten so bloody, so quickly. That's good to know. With that knowledge in mind we can rest easy, and proceed to march to Arena. Hope you all enjoyed, I'll see you all next time.

------

New emblem time! Pretty rare to see that now that we've gotten all the easy to get ones!

Lancer: Lancer is actually pretty hard to get outside of training and the fact that I did it speaks truth to the fact that I might actually be insane. To get it you must hit two enemies at once with a piercing weapon like the pike. Piercing weapons hit two squares, the second square for less damage, and it can hit two people at once because of it. If you get this emblem you can, once you're strong enough, turn into a Valkyrie. We'll talk more on them later, but suffice to say they're one of the stronger end game classes.

jindra34

2019-02-08, 09:53 AM

I think you may be being a little harsh on Cybil here Zodi. But yes the plot is fairly similar between the two routes, your just choosing whether you which end game caster you actually want. And a sprinkle of ending details.

Also since I'm the mechanics guy (Kinda) lets go over recruit chance: (50+[Unit Compatability])/100*[%HP lost]. Its simple, its just the class compatibility table is kinda big. Also emblems(+30 for arbitration, -50 for either slayer) add to the final chance, presuming its over 0%.

LaZodiac

2019-02-08, 10:08 AM

LansXero

2019-02-08, 11:31 AM

Doesnt Lancer trigger even if the second unit is your own? I dont remember it being hard to get at all. Because spears counter-attacking spears will hit the guy in the middle as well so sandwiching people like that is fairly common for valkyries-to-be.

As for the plot, it actually tries to make you choose who Gaston is.

Cybil is not some random person, she is an envoy of the Pope and thus as close to 'word of god' as Lodissians get. Considering that this is the Pope's hitman younger years prequel, going the Cybil route means LODIS UBER ALLES and lets you know where the slippery slope begun for him to become the cold-blooded cynic he is in LUCT. Torturing someone he doesnt consider his equal (as a non-human) is merely the prelude, the first thing we see him do in LUCT is slaughtering a whole town, children and all, just because someone who may know something about a magic sword lives there. The Cybil ending is the canonical one, because he cant go and take over Valeria if he runs away with Eleanor.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-02-08, 02:26 PM

I love the shocked look on the dragons' faces whenever they take damage. They're like "zoinks, Scoob!"

Also, go Vecna! Cranking out the DPR like a boss.

jindra34

2019-02-08, 03:25 PM

LansXero

2019-02-08, 04:56 PM

I wouldn't call it a tactic just for valkyries-to-be. If you have the health its a common spear tactic.

What else uses a spear though? I guess hawkmen? But my point was that usually you get it while you are still changing into actual classes, so its an early thing to acquire.

DataNinja

2019-02-08, 06:41 PM

...admittedly, three people is less than I was expecting. But, I'm happy with the result. :smalltongue:

Oh no! Hopefully you get well soon.

So, what happens for this cutscene if we didn't take Ivanna on way back when?

Woo! Magic item! ...hopefully this doesn't lead to a tragic and ironic death from not being able to be healed. :smallamused:

Am 100% onboard with getting dragons.

Yeah, geez, all of this stuff keeps reminding me of the RW sprites. Gremlins to the Garchimecara (though a bit cuter, guess a bit of moogle, too), and Dragons to the... Dragons.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/4/4a/GarchimaceraenemyspFF12RW.png/revision/latest?cb=20100816044305https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheet_icons/1/293.png

"I'm just going to edit this out." ...you still haven't made an axe pun land correctly, why did you think Future You would listen? :smallwink:

Well... sonovagun. It's more like a necklace of Antimagic.

Well, let's see you try and throw shuriken at something tiny that's standing on a pillar more than twice your height. :smalltongue:

Unit
Kills

Gaston
8

Deneb
8

DataNinja
6

Blue
1

Celestine
5

Trobby
2

Vecna
9

Ivanna
1

Glycinia
0

Terepat
1

Friendly Fire: 4
Whoops, An Object Got In The Way: 9

jindra34

2019-02-08, 07:14 PM

Data Ninja the Amulet of No Magic shouldn't result in a death due to no healing magic. Because ITEMS aren't healing magic. Also they heal very generous amounts of health. Also probably should go to Troby for the time being because everyone else has become enamoured with the wonderful power of magic. Huh, that sounds like something that could go horribly wrong.

LansXero

2019-02-08, 07:23 PM

The most efficient healing in this game is to kill everything before it can touch you. Which isnt always possible of course, but you'll see it later.

Second most efficient are items, because they dont require you to keep a guy around who cant contribute to #1

Is exorcism a thing in this one?

jindra34

2019-02-08, 07:26 PM

Is exorcism a thing in this one?

Yes. Oh gods undead are horrifing without a cleric/priest or related to deal with them after they fall. Or the ultimate spell.

LansXero

2019-02-08, 07:29 PM

Yes. Oh gods undead are horrifing without a cleric/priest or related to deal with them after they fall. Or the ultimate spell.

Well, there is always the Angel Knight skill, right? But yeah, thats the one reason to keep a healer around, but other than that I always ended up leaving them unused and unleveled, because you start either taking very little damage anyways, piling up more goth than you can spend on items, or dying so fast that healing cant keep up.

DataNinja

2019-02-08, 07:31 PM

LaZodiac

2019-02-08, 07:46 PM

Ah, right. I forgot about healing items being a thing we could use, since I don't think we've used one this whole game. Just the enemies.

We have used an herb, exactly once.

LaZodiac

2019-02-08, 08:51 PM

Oh hey, Eggyplastics has finished the art for the 2018 Zodi Game Awards.

I give you, THE VOICE! (https://vgy.me/Y1svrH.png)

And if you like her art I highly recommend you check her out at here: https://twitter.com/eggyplastics

DataNinja

2019-02-08, 09:53 PM

Very nice. He looks very happy to have won. :smallamused:

Ninja_Prawn

2019-02-10, 08:57 AM

Called it, by the way. :smalltongue:

(In a PM to Zodi)

LaZodiac

2019-02-11, 08:26 AM

Onwards, to greater and greater conflicts.

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis [10] Fish Violence (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgYYDHvtaFU)

Video Length: 37:01

In this episode, we make our way to Arena in our search for a mermaid to befriend! And believe it or not, we do manage to stumble upon a mermaid, Minerva...unfortunately, trying to negotiate with her proves futile. She is, unsurprisingly, untrusting of humans! With a simple shout a bunch of her allies appear, mermaids octopi and even some hawkmen, and the battle commences. Whether Gaston wants it or not.

So, this fight. It's a pretty difficult one if you're not careful! Because of the way water works, if you step out into the ocean to try and bring the fight to Minerva...you're doomed. Mermaids and Octopi get a boost when in the water, and any unit you have that gets submerged loses half of it's stats. You can see clear as day just how effective this water bonus is with the octopi being nearly unbreakable while in water, but super weak out of it. Thankfully, I've got an indestructible unit of my own! I uh...put a bunch of pumpkins on Terepat and that basically made my dragon untouchable. I unfortunately put the Necklace of Resistance on him so he can't really be healed, which was a mistake considering Minerva has the lullaby ability which is pretty dangerous, but overall it worked out surprisingly well I think. I also arbitrarily changed Trobby into a ninja to gain some stats so I ended up having two ninjas on this fight. That turned out to be super useful...if risky.

With Minerva defeated and all of her friends driven into the coast, Gaston lingers in despair. He had to defend himself from a mermaid thinking he was one of those basic humans who hates demi-humans and wants to kill them. He had all that bluster about not wanting to torture a mermaid..and then struck out and killed a bunch of them. Gaston feels despondant. The ultimate irony here is...I looked up what the other path has you do.

It has you come across Minerva being attacked by humans. And you save her, and let her go. The choice was, at the end of the day, SUPER fake. In the torture mermaid path, you save a mermaid's life and do not in any way torture any mermaids. In the refusal path you end up beating the crap out of a ton of mermaids. It's just...fascinating. Also you get like, WAY more goth from the A path like what the heck. It's crazy.

Finally, rounding out this video...we finally complete the ritual. With that final level up, Deneb has acquired enough MP to become a Witch! With the flick of our wrist, Deneb class changes into a witch...and so it happens. Deneb is a unique unit, secretly. She was just a generic soldier when we hired her, but...girls who share a name and personality with the Great Witch <3 Deneb can invoke this magical formula to become her. Deneb, the Great Witch <3, is a character from Ogre Battle in general. An immortal ghost witch who possesses the bodies of girls to wreck mischief and chaos. She is not actually plot important to this game, even though she is a plot character. To get her you have to do the steps I've shown here, ie hire a female soldier named Deneb and then turn her into a witch. In Japan you had to have her be fire element as well but you don't HAVE to do that in America. Having Deneb means we've lost a dedicated wizard for the purpose of violence, but her support spells and her hyper upgraded to Temptation makes the Great Witch <3 class that she's permanently stuck in pretty useful actually. And unlike regular witches, Deneb DOES have access to...other, spells.

But yeah, that's the end of this video. I hope you all enjoyed, I'll see you all next time!

jindra34

2019-02-11, 10:07 AM

So dragon tank. Celestine is apparently a power napper.

Also this is more the a potential origin of Deneb being that the other games take place later.

So status effect spells; the first part is to note that their accuracy is capped at just under 25%,50%or 75%. Second your stat/level modifier on the spell is ALSO modified by that cap. And oh third? Despite rolling from your INT to see if you hit, the target uses their magic defense to determine as the opposed stat modifier. Which will always be at least their INT, and generally higher. So why is Deneb better? Mostly because she breaks those caps, and some because she has top tier int growth.

DataNinja

2019-02-11, 12:54 PM

Snow day from university (and by "snow day", I mean "university's still open, but if I bus in I'll probably get trapped there tonight because our city is not equipped to handle snowfall") so, let's start things off with some Zodi.

Not yet AoE? Didn't Vecna get that last battle?

Well, bet now that Celestine's hopped in the water, both she and Terepat are gonna be skewered by the boss.
Huh. Hawkman took the spot instead.

To be fair, Gaston, even if you killed mermaids, you didn't torture them.

Huh... that's, uh, interesting. Are the Glass Pumpkins the only hint that you get that this would happen?

Unit
Kills

Gaston
9

Deneb
10

DataNinja
7

Blue
1

Celestine
7

Trobby
3

Vecna
10

Ivanna
1

Glycinia
0

Terepat
1

Friendly Fire: 4
Whoops, An Object Got In The Way: 10

DataNinja

2019-02-11, 01:52 PM

So, now that we're on episode 10 (even if episode 1 had no fighting), how about some kill charts. Got a nice big gap in the middle when we had turnover. :smalltongue:

https://vgy.me/WSwVDt.png

Took a bit of finagling to make sure that the lines were still legible (and looked decent) when multiple units had the same amount of kills for a time, but, I think I've got a system worked out.

LansXero

2019-02-11, 02:51 PM

Not yet AoE? Didn't Vecna get that last battle?

Sometimes when you are really close the ground or the weather can push you into it and then next battle you are still really close but not quite there. Unless Im mixing it up with LUCT again.

Ninja_Prawn

2019-02-11, 03:29 PM

Sometimes when you are really close the ground or the weather can push you into it and then next battle you are still really close but not quite there. Unless Im mixing it up with LUCT again.

I don't know about all that, but I'm sure Vecna had AoE powers in both battles. It seems like voiceover Zodi just forgot that briefly. Also, no CRAIG CRUSH?! :smallannoyed:

Anyway, pretty sure Celestine's refusal to lay down and die sleep is worth some points!

Unit
Counter Kills
Power Naps
Shield Bash Kills

Gaston
0
0
0

Allos (retired)
1
0
0

Blue
0
0
1

Celestine
0
3
0

DataNinja
0
0
0

Deneb
0
0
1

Flauros (retired)
0
0
0

Glycinia
0
0
0

Ivanna
0
0
0

Kamui (retired)
0
0
0

Thelma (retired)
0
0
0

Terepat
0
0
0

Trobby
0
0
0

Vecna (formerly Leon)
0
0
0

jindra34

2019-02-11, 03:49 PM

The no AoE thing was because AoE magic costs 12 mp, you get 10 a turn so because it wasn't turn 3 Zodi couldn't throw it down... without using another characters turn to feed Vecna an item to boost his mp.

DataNinja

2019-02-11, 04:10 PM

Ninja_Prawn

2019-02-11, 04:52 PM

Man, that is such a stupid mechanic. Is the MP regeneration rate the same for all characters, or does it at least scale for intelligent casters?

jindra34

2019-02-11, 04:57 PM

Man, that is such a stupid mechanic. Is the MP regeneration rate the same for all characters, or does it at least scale for intelligent casters?

Tis always 10 per turn.

LansXero

2019-02-11, 05:38 PM

Man, that is such a stupid mechanic. Is the MP regeneration rate the same for all characters, or does it at least scale for intelligent casters?

Its a portable game, so its more simple, because of its 'I go, you go' turn sequence. On other tactics ogre games its based off wait time, which is, it increases at a steady rate thats based on how often you get to go.

Gold and its equivalent are still super easy to get on both games though, so it usually doesnt matter because you'll be popping 100mp pots at the start of any battle by default. Or getting someone to feed you mp with the darkness spell that does that.

LaZodiac

2019-02-11, 07:11 PM

One of the cool things about LPing a game with a hungry fanbase is that most of the stuff I was gonna say in response when I get home from work has already been said.

But yeah that's the gist of it. The intent was that since Vecna wasn't charged up yet we didn't have any AOE stuff to use, even though Vecna is capable of AOEing stuff.

tonberrian

2019-02-11, 08:16 PM

I highly suggest taking a detour and visiting the shop in Scabellum. For reasons.

Also now would be a good time to look at some secret item FAQs and find some more pumpkins. For more reasons.

LaZodiac

2019-02-11, 08:36 PM

I highly suggest taking a detour and visiting the shop in Scabellum. For reasons.

Also now would be a good time to look at some secret item FAQs and find some more pumpkins. For more reasons.

Don't worry, I'm well acquainted with what to do next. I may look it because I'm bad at tactics and always sound like I'm in a constant state of confusion, but that's just because I'm dumb. I know what to do :smallwink:

DataNinja

2019-02-11, 10:39 PM

Don't worry, I'm well acquainted with what to do next. I may look it because I'm bad at tactics and always sound like I'm in a constant state of confusion, but that's just because I'm dumb. I know what to do :smallwink:

To be fair, when things go wrong, you tend to realize your errors in the next few instants. So, clearly, what you need to do is get your brain a few seconds into the future so you always realize what you should do. :smalltongue:

LaZodiac

2019-02-13, 08:11 AM

Nom nom video games. Consider this a snack before the Nintendo Direct today.

A Taste Of: Flinthook (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrdDg1DNxAU)

Video Length: 15:30

A rogue like platforming action game where the levels are vaguely Zelda dungeon esque! Flinthook is...a fascinating game, with a cool couple of mechanics. The problem I had with it is that the "hold button to grapple" means you want to hold it the ENTIRE duration of the hook use. This is 100% my bad, but it would have been nice to have it be explained clearer. Also, just by virtue of playing with a gamepad for this video makes the game far, far less fun to play. The gamepad controls have you aim and move with the same stick, which is just awful an idea that the game should NOT have done. There are two control sticks on the controller for a reason.

What's worse is that you get a permanent upgrade that lets you lock yourself in place so you can aim without moving...which is entirely counter to the game's feel. You're a quick super fast ghost boy possessing a pirate guy and you're gonna fling yourself around real fast and do cool acrobatic stuff. And here is an item that locks you in place so you can actually aim. This is why the keyboard controls are better, you can aim with the mouse while standing still. Ultimately, because of that, this is an avoidable problem...but it shouldn't be a problem I need to avoid in the first place, I think?

All this negativity aside I really like this game! It's super fun and stylish, it's just...got some weird control decisions, and absolutely a little too difficult for it's own good.

DataNinja

2019-02-13, 02:05 PM

(Note that this video still seems to be unlisted, in cast you weren't wanting it to be thread-exclusive.)

Well, that was an opening. Looks like it goes pretty well over the gist of the game, without spoiling anything, which is nice (that's an issue I have sometimes of pre-game cinematics). Also, Mermaids are everywhere in these videos lately. :smalltongue:

Yeah, that type of movement/aiming controls seems really awkward and unwieldy for a platformer like this.

LaZodiac

2019-02-13, 08:16 PM

LaZodiac

2019-02-15, 08:17 AM

Oh hey more of this!

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis [11] Further Fish Violence (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPwRbn-tFgI)

Video Length: 51:39 (!!!)

It's kinda sad this is a long once since I don't have all THAT much to say. Starting us off, we return to Scabellum to quickly unlock Deneb's Secret Shop! The secret shop is just like all the regular stores, except it's run by a pumpkinhead monster and it stocks some...unique equipment, that only the store provides. As well, Glass Pumpkins can be liquidated here for a vast amount of money, and if we sell them five pumpkins...well, you'll see, because I do intend to get it, to the best of my abilities.

After that, we head off to Rana, wherein we get attacked by another mermaid! This one is Aerial, and she's a slight bit stronger than Minerva was. She's enraged at Minerva's death, and will do everything she can to kill us. Her allies aren't that significant, except for the mermaid with the dragon gem, a hawkman with an earth shield, and the two Naga's on her team. Naga's are the neutral evolution of the dragon, because while dragons cannot class change they CAN mutated. Naga's are the neutral dragon, swimmers that coil and slither around. I forget what, if any, special features they have. Whatever the case may be, they're incredibly powerful and no guide I read have ever listed them as being part of this fight so HMM. That's uh...not good.

About 55 minutes later, we finally put an end to all the enemies. Aerial, bleeding and wounded, demands we finish her off or she'll keep fighting. Gaston doesn't want to, and much to the relief of everyone another mermaid rushes out to save Aerial from a cold, unwanted death. This random mermaid guard reveals that uh...the mermaid town is literally right here in Rana, and the Mermaid Queen would like to speak with us. Which she does, and in a round about way explains that the Sacred Spear is a horrifying black device that shoots people to death, rending through armour and flesh. It's basically a gun and that's really amusing to me. The mermaids used it to fight the war, but humans are nothing if not persistent. More humans came, no matter how many the future queen struck down with her lightning gun, and many more mermaids died as a result. Sometimes, you need to compromise some of your positions to ensure you'll live. An unfortunate and unwanted thing, but sometimes true all the same.

Of course it's not like the Queen learned that lesson. The spear got vanished out from under their noses and she was forced to watch as humanity beat them back, slaughtering them all wholesale. So the mermaids retreated from the ancient ground that was their home and are now kept nice and tidy up in this pocket of coastal ocean caves. They never found the spear, though they know who took it. The queen's sister, Berevra, who fell in love with a human and so absconded with it in the night to prevent further war. I don't know how she got her hands on it but it...well, I won't say it didn't help, because the war did stop. But it stopped because the bad guys finally killed enough of you that they decided they'd won. That's not a victory by any stretch. Would it have been right to keep the spear? Who knows! But probably, yeah.

And that's it for today. We've got some more information, and a lot of dead mermaids on our back. I hope you're happy Gaston, all you had to do was listen to Cybill being a psychopath about torturing mermaids and you wouldn't of have to torture any mermaids. That said I hope you all enjoyed, I'll see you all next time!

------

Two new emblems today, courtesy of DataNinja making the ultimate sacrifice; not attacking with his cool katana. Also dying.

Angel Feather: Rewarded to a unit that gets revived from death. Let's you become an Angel Knight, but...we'll talk about what exactly that MEANS at a later date. I do intend to get one, that's all I can really say here for now. I will note, you can get this emblem in training! I don't quite know why!

The Pen And The Sword: By killing four enemies with physical attacks and four enemies with magic/skill attacks, we get this! It lets a dude turn into a warlock (no ladies allowed) which is a pretty good class. We'll talk more about it later, once/if I do get one, which I think I will since I think this emblem is one of the ones you can't get in training! If someone could correct me on that that'd be cool.

jindra34

2019-02-15, 10:27 AM

LansXero

2019-02-15, 01:51 PM

Do you get guns on this one, btw? And the spear is a spear.

DataNinja

2019-02-15, 03:20 PM

On the one hand, that's a neat little thing to have happen, with extra equipment. On the other, I dunno how I feel about having it locked behind a secret character.

Don't ninjas still take an attack penalty if they're on water squares, even though they're on top of it? I feel like that's something we found. So, wouldn't it be better, especially with the ranged people like Trobby, to just use the water-walk to try and skide around to lone pieces of land before attacking? (Or is the penalty only to Melee?)

Well... uh, oops. I am very glad you still have an Altar, because... yeah.

Man, a whole level from killing that dragon.

Unit
Kills

Gaston
11

Deneb
10

DataNinja
8

Blue
2

Celestine
7

Trobby
3

Vecna
11

Ivanna
2

Glycinia
0

Terepat
1

Orson
1

Friendly Fire: 4
Whoops, An Object Got In The Way: 10

Ninja_Prawn

2019-02-15, 04:26 PM

DataNinja getting the authentic Shimada Genji experience, there. Dives in solo, stunned up, killed. At least you had the rez available! :smallbiggrin:

LaZodiac

2019-02-15, 07:20 PM

So, gems are really stupidly good.

Also this map is just messy, oh so messy. Deneb does get to show why she is considered so good. But this map pretty much nessecitates messy tactics.
Also back to the plotlines mostly being merged.

I'll keep that in mind!

Do you get guns on this one, btw? And the spear is a spear.

We do not get guns in this as near I can tell.

You can pry the "black magic spear that shoots light is just a gun" goof from my cold dead hands.

On the one hand, that's a neat little thing to have happen, with extra equipment. On the other, I dunno how I feel about having it locked behind a secret character.

Don't ninjas still take an attack penalty if they're on water squares, even though they're on top of it? I feel like that's something we found. So, wouldn't it be better, especially with the ranged people like Trobby, to just use the water-walk to try and skide around to lone pieces of land before attacking? (Or is the penalty only to Melee?)

Well... uh, oops. I am very glad you still have an Altar, because... yeah.

Man, a whole level from killing that dragon.

Unit
Kills

Gaston
11

Deneb
10

DataNinja
8

Blue
2

Celestine
7

Trobby
3

Vecna
11

Ivanna
2

Glycinia
0

Terepat
1

Orson
1

Friendly Fire: 4
Whoops, An Object Got In The Way: 10

If you're like, two levels below someone, a kill is 100 EXP. It's kind of ridiculous and has uh...lets say, helped me catch up a unit or two!

DataNinja getting the authentic Shimada Genji experience, there. Dives in solo, stunned up, killed. At least you had the rez available! :smallbiggrin:

Comments like this make me not want to change him to a new class.

LansXero

2019-02-15, 08:57 PM

You can pry the "black magic spear that shoots light is just a gun" goof from my cold dead hands.

Isnt it actually the angel's horn? so its as un-gunlike as any other spear. In LUCT you do get guns, and it mentions a whole island or continent of people who make and use guns. So while maybe the description makes it sound gunlike, its not like guns are an entirely alien thing to the series.

LaZodiac

2019-02-15, 09:09 PM

Isnt it actually the angel's horn? so its as un-gunlike as any other spear. In LUCT you do get guns, and it mentions a whole island or continent of people who make and use guns. So while maybe the description makes it sound gunlike, its not like guns are an entirely alien thing to the series.

No spoilers but yes.

anyway it's a joke. Fantasy people talk about a solid black object that tears through armour and flesh with bolts of light, that sounds like a gun to me.

DataNinja

2019-02-15, 09:34 PM

If you're like, two levels below someone, a kill is 100 EXP. It's kind of ridiculous and has uh...lets say, helped me catch up a unit or two!
Only two? Huh. That's generous. ...granted, doesn't help when a dragon's stealing your kill. :smallamused:

Comments like this make me not want to change him to a new class.
But I've got all these fancy emblems! :smalltongue:

HalfTangible

2019-02-16, 01:28 AM

No spoilers but yes.

anyway it's a joke. Fantasy people talk about a solid black object that tears through armour and flesh with bolts of light, that sounds like a gun to me.

You've never seen a gun fire, have you? :smalltongue:

LaZodiac

2019-02-16, 01:57 AM

You've never seen a gun fire, have you? :smalltongue:

No HT, I haven't. Goofball :smalltongue:

jindra34

2019-02-16, 01:30 PM

Also just realized that when I said gems I actually meant orbs.

LaZodiac

2019-02-16, 06:55 PM

Speaking of realizations, here's one for you I realized after recording the next two videos.

I'll elaborate more in a future video, but in order to get Aerial to join you, you have to take Minerva down to critical health, so she slumps over. She'll surrender, and then when we fight Aerial we'll only fight octopi instead of naga's, and Aerial will join us.

None of the guides told me this explicitly, and none of them even made mention of the naga punishment. The pain of playing a game from a series no one really cares about.

LansXero

2019-02-16, 07:18 PM

from a series no one really cares about.

:(. It makes sense though, like you said, you went this route because you didnt want to hurt and kill Mermaids. Then why are you killing the first one you face thats not a random NPC?

HalfTangible

2019-02-16, 07:21 PM

No HT, I haven't. Goofball :smalltongue:You would not see the bullet. As far as the observer is concerned, there is a loud BANG like a bomb going off (because there kinda is, albeit a tiny one), something explodes and if it's a living thing it falls over dead.

Also, when firearms were first getting popular, armor was still useful against it. As firearms became more powerful and more able to pierce/shatter armor, the armor got thicker to compensate. Eventually, however, armor was so thick that it was an active detriment to the soldier wearing it more than a help, and so it was abandoned.

... I used to hunt :smallwink::smalltongue:

Speaking of realizations, here's one for you I realized after recording the next two videos.

I'll elaborate more in a future video, but in order to get Aerial to join you, you have to take Minerva down to critical health, so she slumps over. She'll surrender, and then when we fight Aerial we'll only fight octopi instead of naga's, and Aerial will join us.

None of the guides told me this explicitly, and none of them even made mention of the naga punishment. The pain of playing a game from a series no one really cares about.

You did the path that involved NOT torturing mermaid only to end up killing mermaids.

=|

LaZodiac

2019-02-16, 08:45 PM

:(. It makes sense though, like you said, you went this route because you didnt want to hurt and kill Mermaids. Then why are you killing the first one you face thats not a random NPC?

I'm sorry but it's true. I like this series, many people like the series! It's otherwise...not very popular and that's sad.

I mean, the game said to kill them. And literally every other character we meet that we recruit, we have to kill to beat. Even if we did spare Minerva, the one time that ever happens ever, we still have to kill Aerial...though apparently Aerial also surrenders, and those two are the only two that do that in the whole game. So...I call the game on that, personally.

You would not see the bullet. As far as the observer is concerned, there is a loud BANG like a bomb going off (because there kinda is, albeit a tiny one), something explodes and if it's a living thing it falls over dead.

Also, when firearms were first getting popular, armor was still useful against it. As firearms became more powerful and more able to pierce/shatter armor, the armor got thicker to compensate. Eventually, however, armor was so thick that it was an active detriment to the soldier wearing it more than a help, and so it was abandoned.

You did the path that involved NOT torturing mermaid only to end up killing mermaids.

=|

Neat gun facts. Still think it's valid to call the spear a laser gun. Pew pew.

Yeah, womp womp.

HalfTangible

2019-02-16, 10:03 PM

Neat gun facts. Still think it's valid to call the spear a laser gun. Pew pew.A LASRER gun, maybe :smalltongue:

LaZodiac

2019-02-18, 08:29 AM

Fi...fight it out?

Zodi Plays: Tactics Ogre The Knight of Lodis [12] Interruptus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnLLDT2bgq4)

Video Length: 21:00

Bit of a short one today, for reasons I'll get into momentarily. Starting us off, we've got two new changes to the army! Trobby has grown into a Valkyrie, a fantastic female warrior that specializes in spears. They get two slots for spells, and they're even good at water. They also provide a +1 morale bonus to men within three squares of them, which rules. We also hired Deme off screen, and after a short hour or so of grinding she's up to par with the rest of the army as our Siren, a powerful magic caster in her own right! Jumping a bit ahead, we also end up using the Mirror of the Gods to change Terepat to change his element to wind...which also changes him into a Thunder Dragon! Dragons are weird like that.

Anyway, plot stuff! We say our somber, sad goodbyes with Arial, who then proceeds to join the party! Except not. Because, for reasons that are entirely unclear, you have to SPECIFICALLY lower Minerva to critical HP levels, after which she will surrender. None of the guides I was using specified this, and simply said "don't kill her". This is...bothering, because the game says to kill her so I was kind of at a loss for what that MEANT exactly? Now, admittedly I should have dug a little deeper, but I'm taking the full blame for it because literally every other enemy you recruit in this game is someone you have to beat to death. So yeah, no mermaid for us, instead she just muses about how humans and fish are likely incompatible. This is ultimately not a big deal since mermaids are less than good on land and spoilers, we don't...really get any more water maps. We're done with wet.

After that we return to Cybil to inform her of our wonderfully our No Torturing Mermaid plan went. She appreciates the help, but notes that none of her searching has found Berevra either so we're at a loss. This is where things get...silly. I realize that they have to write the plot so that it works no matter which path you're on, but...apparently, even though Gaston completely disagrees with Cybil's methods, he still feels he owes her. He said he would help her, just in his own way...he never said when he'd STOP. It just...it feels really weird to see Gaston being so chummy with her considering everything. However, at the very least talking with her as proved fruitful for our own investigations! We remember about Eleanor's story about seeing a golden scaled mermaid. So now it's time to head back to Solea to talk to her about a fish.

And we would absolutely do that...were it not for a random encounter! Random encounters are...a frustrating and kind of terrible mechanic honestly? It's probably because of the level 6 fairy sitting in my army acting as mascot, but the enemies are barely worth the effort, giving at most 1 EXP a kill just because they're one or two levels lower than us. The ones that are on par, through being that strong or simply leveling up off of US, aren't even that worth it either since none of them drop much of value item wise. I'd of maybe liked to get one of those spell robes they have, but ultimately there's very little of worth in random fights like these. Which is unfortunate because you CANNOT RUN from fights. At the very, very least what this random fight lets us do is show off how strong our units have gotten since the beginning of the game. A long time ago a fight like this could have been a slog. Now we're kind of ripping everything apart.

But yeah, that's it for today. I hope you all enjoyed! Join us next time where we actually proceed with the plot mission. And if you've got any input on how to handle potential future random encounters, please feel free to speak up!

jindra34

2019-02-18, 09:26 AM

Zodi here's a really funny part of this. The paths cutscene here is basically the same if you took path A. So no, this is mostly to establish Gaston's character or lack there of.

Oh hey, look another water map. Also if you really want an item from an enemy, recruit them, steal the stuff and then dismiss them. But yes random encounters are based on the average level of your team. Hey 10 heal is more than cleanse does. And this took long enough to start flooding the map. Which shows how silly flooding is with tiered water.

DataNinja

2019-02-18, 02:07 PM

Ninja_Prawn

2019-02-18, 02:08 PM

Random encounters are...a frustrating and kind of terrible mechanic honestly?

Ah, now I understand why you don't like FFT. They're especially pointless here though, since you've got training mode for level grinding.

Unit
Counter Kills
Power Naps
Shield Bash Kills

Gaston
2
0
0

Allos (retired)
1
0
0

Blue
0
0
1

Celestine
0
3
0

DataNinja
0
0
0

Deme
0
0
0

Deneb
0
0
1

Flauros (retired)
0
0
0

Glycinia
0
0
0

Ivanna
0
0
0

Kamui (retired)
0
0
0

Thelma (retired)
0
0
0

Terepat
0
0
0

Trobby
0
0
0

Vecna (formerly Leon)
0
0
0

LansXero

2019-02-18, 05:50 PM

Ah, now I understand why you don't like FFT. They're especially pointless here though, since you've got training mode for level grinding.

Unit
Counter Kills
Power Naps
Shield Bash Kills

Gaston
2
0
0

Allos (retired)
1
0
0

Blue
0
0
1

Celestine
0
3
0

DataNinja
0
0
0

Deme
0
0
0

Deneb
0
0
1

Flauros (retired)
0
0
0

Glycinia
0
0
0

Ivanna
0
0
0

Kamui (retired)
0
0
0

Thelma (retired)
0
0
0

Terepat
0
0
0

Trobby
0
0
0

Vecna (formerly Leon)
0
0
0

Not quite. Often times you'd find better recruits in random encounters than at the shop; it can also provide useful equipment and well, training is very, very dull. Plus, you get the negative emblem if you only ever level up in training, so you've got to look out for that as well.

Anteros

2019-02-18, 05:51 PM

Ah, now I understand why you don't like FFT. They're especially pointless here though, since you've got training mode for level grinding.

Unit
Counter Kills
Power Naps
Shield Bash Kills

Gaston
2
0
0

Allos (retired)
1
0
0

Blue
0
0
1

Celestine
0
3
0

DataNinja
0
0
0

Deme
0
0
0

Deneb
0
0
1

Flauros (retired)
0
0
0

Glycinia
0
0
0

Ivanna
0
0
0

Kamui (retired)
0
0
0

Thelma (retired)
0
0
0

Terepat
0
0
0

Trobby
0
0
0

Vecna (formerly Leon)
0
0
0

Sure, but training is even more boring than random encounters.

tyckspoon

2019-02-18, 05:56 PM

Sure, but training is even more boring than random encounters.

FFT's random encounters aren't for training? (glances at four randos standing in a corner spamming Accumulate while one Knight Speed-breaks the last actual enemy until they only take one turn for every ten your team gets) .. yeah, building up new characters is a lot more tolerable if you can use the JP-glitch in the original versions..

Ninja_Prawn

2019-02-18, 06:05 PM

LansXero

2019-02-18, 07:13 PM

Maybe you misread my tone there... I like FFT and happily spend hours doing nothing but random encounters. The training mode in Knight of Lodis is interesting, but if you're going to have a training mode available like that, you should probably cut the random encounters from the game.

But if you enjoy the game instead of wanting to get over with it, not having random encounters would be very, very lame. And games arent designed for people who dislike them.

Also, did Zodi get quest mode yet?

jindra34

2019-02-18, 07:36 PM

Yes LansXeno Zodi has unlocked at least 1 quest in quest mode. The issue is that the first quest has level 15 enemies and not sure how well team Zodi can handle that. At six members.

LaZodiac

2019-02-18, 08:00 PM

...okay, that mirror animation is pretty neat.

Man, that took awhile. That Cleric was clearly of a god of Spite. :smalltongue:

Unit
Kills

Gaston
14

Deneb
10

DataNinja
8

Blue
2

Celestine
7

Trobby
4

Vecna
11

Ivanna
2

Glycinia
0

Terepat
1

Orson
1

Deme
1

Friendly Fire: 4
Whoops, An Object Got In The Way: 10

The coolest thing about the Mirror is that it changes depending on what element is using it. The big image that pops up is a Mode 7-y playing around of the Elemental symbol!

Ah, now I understand why you don't like FFT. They're especially pointless here though, since you've got training mode for level grinding.

Unit
Counter Kills
Power Naps
Shield Bash Kills

Gaston
2
0
0

Allos (retired)
1
0
0

Blue
0
0
1

Celestine
0
3
0

DataNinja
0
0
0

Deme
0
0
0

Deneb
0
0
1

Flauros (retired)
0
0
0

Glycinia
0
0
0

Ivanna
0
0
0

Kamui (retired)
0
0
0

Thelma (retired)
0
0
0

Terepat
0
0
0

Trobby
0
0
0

Vecna (formerly Leon)
0
0
0

To clarify this point, I don't mind random encounters. That was me specifically saying that Knight of Lodis' random encounters are a bit...not super great, due to how the pay out for them is not all that good.

I dislike FFT for different reasons :smallwink:

But if you enjoy the game instead of wanting to get over with it, not having random encounters would be very, very lame. And games arent designed for people who dislike them.

Also, did Zodi get quest mode yet?

Yes LansXeno Zodi has unlocked at least 1 quest in quest mode. The issue is that the first quest has level 15 enemies and not sure how well team Zodi can handle that. At six members.

Concerning Quest Mode, I'll actually be doing a video about that Soon (tm). Likely will accompany Friday's video as a bonus thing, just to show it off and stuff. I don't intend to show all of Quest Mode off on screen since it's not that exciting and doesn't contribute to any proper kill counts...though I will be using it, and trying not to OVER use it (possibly). I'll give more details about it when I post the bonus video though.