Star Wars Droid Question.

[An Enemy Spy]

In A New Hope where Owen and Luke are buying droids from the Jawas. The first astromech droid they buy is this guy.

https://img-new.cgtrader.com/items/675504/d68485d064/r5-d4-droid-star-wars-3d-model-max-obj-fbx-mtl.jpg

Now I have been a fan of Star Wars for about twenty years and in all that time I have known for a fact that this is an R5 unit, yet in my most recent watch of ANH, he is very clearly referred to as an R2. I get the easy Watsonian answer is that Luke doesn't know the difference, but is there a Doylist reason for this discrepancy?

[The Glyphstone]

My guess would be that the distinction didnt exist yet when ANH was filmed.

[An Enemy Spy]

My guess would be that the distinction didnt exist yet when ANH was filmed.

I get that but someone down the line must have decided that the dialogue in the movie was wrong and that the droid was an R5, not an R2.

[Olinser]

The Doylist answer is that Lucas hadn't actually fleshed out all of designations when they filmed so they just called it an R2 because thats what the other one was called, but when it was a runaway success they expanded on it with the novelization and further matierals.

Mos Eisley cantina was literally written in the script as 'it's a bar full of crazy aliens', almost none of them had actual names or species names and none of them appeared in the credits at the time of filming, even though literally every single one has their own story in the EU.

[GloatingSwine]

Also there's a tendency in Star Wars nerdery to be Deadly Serious about the fiddling details found in the EU that are totally unimportant to or sometimes contrary to the spirit of the movies which, as you may have noticed if you've watched them, aren't very detail oriented at all.

[LibraryOgre]

Besides, that's Skippy, the Droid Jedi (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Skippy_the_Jedi_Droid). He probably used a Jedi Mind Trick on Luke to make him refer to it as an R2 unit.

[Peelee]

Besides, that's Skippy, the Droid Jedi (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Skippy_the_Jedi_Droid). He probably used a Jedi Mind Trick on Luke to make him refer to it as an R2 unit.

Yeah, but that was in 1999 and was patently ridiculous.

The 2017 version is that R2 talked him into shooting himself in the foot after trying to kill him (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Red_One).

[Sapphire Guard]

Also, no one in the Cantina is just having a drink after work, they're all present at some pivotal moment in their lives and will be forever changed.

[Dargaron]

I remember reading one of those Star Wars Insider magazines (yes, I was a HUGE dork), and someone asked this in one of the question columns (although I think it was regarding 3PO calling another droid an "R2 unit," not Luke). The answer given was that calling an Astromech droid an "R2 unit" is kind of like how everyone calls adhesive bandages "band-aids:" in theory, band-aids are only one of a number of bandage brands, but it's the most common and has become shorthand for that kind of product. Likewise, R2 units were the model of modern Astromech that first became popular (IIRC, the R1s were huge and clunky), so R2 became the shorthand.

[Peelee]

I remember reading one of those Star Wars Insider magazines (yes, I was a HUGE dork)

Dude. You're posting on what started out life as a fantasy roleplaying forum and then grew due to a D&D webcomic. I'm like 90% positive there's an "I am a huge dork" checkbox you have to select in order to register an account on here. Welcome, my dorky dude; you are among friends.

Of course, you're also talking about Star Wars on the internet, so I'd be remiss if I didn't say WHOEVER WROTE THAT ARTICLE WAS WRONG AND SHOULD BE FIRED.

[Darth Ultron]

The basic answer is that there was no such thing as 'R5-D4' until the Kenner action figure. The designation may have been assigned pre-production and buried in the prop design paperwork or early production art, and simply not referenced or used in the film's production, but then later given to Kenner for their design process. Who knows... As to the nature of R5-D4, there are three sources of info I've checked that pre-date the movie's release. None of them mention R5-D4, and a couple of them support the idea that in fact, the other droid was another R2 unit.

1) Star Wars novel adaptation: published in Dec, 1976, describes the other droid as "a small semi-agricultural robot" similar in shape to Artoo Detoo and it was later described by Luke as a "cultivator unit". Interestingly, the novel also has Uncle Owen opting to trade the busted droid for R2 out of fear that the Jawas might go Rambo and level his homestead with their crawler.

2) The 4th draft script:
"Owen picks out a small astro-robot similar to Artoo and it waddles along behind the group..."
"Luke and the two robots start for the garage when a plate pops off the head of the R-2 unit throwing parts all over the ground."
"LUKE - Uncle Owen, this R-2 unit has a bad motivator, look! He adjusts the R-2 unit’s head plate and it sparks wildly."

3) The Marvel Comic Adaptation.

[Devonix]

Yeah, but that was in 1999 and was patently ridiculous.

The 2017 version is that R2 talked him into shooting himself in the foot after trying to kill him (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Red_One).

Wow thats stupid

[Peelee]

Wow thats stupid

Oh just wait until you hear about the totally Force-Sensitive dianoga who baptizes Luke (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Baptist).

[LibraryOgre]

Yeah, but that was in 1999 and was patently ridiculous.

The 2017 version is that R2 talked him into shooting himself in the foot after trying to kill him (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Red_One).


Wow thats stupid


Oh just wait until you hear about the totally Force-Sensitive dianoga who baptizes Luke (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Baptist).

I can't link to it from a work computer, but there's also legends of Fluffy, the Jedi Rancor (also: Space Pilot), due to some weirdness in the D6 RPG.

[Peelee]

I can't link to it from a work computer, but there's also legends of Fluffy, the Jedi Rancor (also: Space Pilot), due to some weirdness in the D6 RPG.

Also Ikrit, the Jedi rabbit/puppy, and Beldorion, the Jedi Hutt. The first was in the Junior Jedi Knights youth novel series, but Beldorion was in the Callista trilogy, IIRC. I try to not remember too much of Barbara Hambly's stuff, but there it is.

[hamishspence]

Hambly gets points from me for being one of the few authors to depict New Republic era Leia as truly formidable, in both peace and battle.

[Peelee]

Hambly gets points from me for being one of the few authors to depict New Republic era Leia as truly formidable, in both peace and battle.

I'll give you that. She did more with Leia than almost anyone else (and of the ones who did use Leia, she did it better. A major character who was fiercely independent shouldn't be reduced to background scenery when she's in the damn title, Courtship of Princess Leia). Maybe I should go give those a re-read and see if they got better as I matured.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Most of the work fleshing out the SW-verse was done by the d6 game, often drawing more from the Kenner toys than the movies (which are often laughably barebones when not dealing with a specific handful of humans).

[hamishspence]

Maybe I should go give those a re-read and see if they got better as I matured.

There's plenty of weirdness - but weird isn't necessarily bad.

Generally there's no Star Wars novel I've read and regretted reading though, so my tastes are pretty broad.

[factotum]

The answer given was that calling an Astromech droid an "R2 unit" is kind of like how everyone calls adhesive bandages "band-aids:" in theory, band-aids are only one of a number of bandage brands, but it's the most common and has become shorthand for that kind of product. Likewise, R2 units were the model of modern Astromech that first became popular (IIRC, the R1s were huge and clunky), so R2 became the shorthand.

To be honest, if you want an in-universe explanation then this is probably as good as you'll get. The real explanation is, as stated above, that George Lucas really didn't care about consistency or world-building when he wrote the original Star Wars--heck, even the famous "EPISODE IV" at the top of the opening crawl wasn't there in the original 1977 release, it got added when the film went to home video!

[Devonix]

To be honest, if you want an in-universe explanation then this is probably as good as you'll get. The real explanation is, as stated above, that George Lucas really didn't care about consistency or world-building when he wrote the original Star Wars--heck, even the famous "EPISODE IV" at the top of the opening crawl wasn't there in the original 1977 release, it got added when the film went to home video!

I dont really understand the desire for an in universe explination when the out of universe explination is known or obvioud.

[Rogar Demonblud]

There's plenty of weirdness - but weird isn't necessarily bad.

Generally there's no Star Wars novel I've read and regretted reading though, so my tastes are pretty broad.

Whichever ones had the humanoid raptors was about the bottom of the barrel for me. Enough so that I pretty much quit the series after them.

[hamishspence]

That was one of the earliest - The Truce at Bakura. They tend to get better after it. The X-Wing series and the Thrawn series are the ones that seem to be most consistently liked.

[Peelee]

There's plenty of weirdness - but weird isn't necessarily bad.

Generally there's no Star Wars novel I've read and regretted reading though, so my tastes are pretty broad.

Even Jedi Trial? The book on battle strategy that had Star Wars window dressing? That one I full-on regret, because it added absolutely nothing to the SW mythos.

[hamishspence]

It had some interesting scenes starring Corran's father, and a bit of bonding between him and Anakin (they both have secret spouses).

Corran Horn being the protagonist of the X-wing novel series.

[jayem]

The basic answer is that there was no such thing as 'R5-D4' until the Kenner action figure. The designation may have been assigned pre-production and buried in the prop design paperwork or early production art, and simply not referenced or used in the film's production, but then later given to Kenner for their design process. Who knows... As to the nature of R5-D4, there are three sources of info I've checked that pre-date the movie's release. None of them mention R5-D4, and a couple of them support the idea that in fact, the other droid was another R2 unit.

1) Star Wars novel adaptation: published in Dec, 1976, describes the other droid as "a small semi-agricultural robot" similar in shape to Artoo Detoo and it was later described by Luke as a "cultivator unit". Interestingly, the novel also has Uncle Owen opting to trade the busted droid for R2 out of fear that the Jawas might go Rambo and level his homestead with their crawler.

2) The 4th draft script:
"Owen picks out a small astro-robot similar to Artoo and it waddles along behind the group..."
"Luke and the two robots start for the garage when a plate pops off the head of the R-2 unit throwing parts all over the ground."
"LUKE - Uncle Owen, this R-2 unit has a bad motivator, look! He adjusts the R-2 unit’s head plate and it sparks wildly."



My guess (purely on the basis that the idea of someone imagining/making two really different R2's at the same time feels off, but I can imagine me being any of the people in this version) would be that
In the scripts you literally had two (very similar) R2's. Hence the dialog
The design get changed when building the props, either because they thought it would be confusing to the audience, R2 was too expensive to duplicate in red, or they wanted to show off.
Someone gave it a new name then, or decided that someone else would (possibly even calling it the R-5)
Nobody from the scripts or props thought to mention it. It wasn't changed in the scripts, and nobody noticed (or cared).

[tomandtish]

To be honest, if you want an in-universe explanation then this is probably as good as you'll get. The real explanation is, as stated above, that George Lucas really didn't care about consistency or world-building when he wrote the original Star Wars--heck, even the famous "EPISODE IV" at the top of the opening crawl wasn't there in the original 1977 release, it got added when the film went to home video!

Actually, "A New Hope" was added when Star Wars was re-released in April of 1981. It's actually the first retroactive change made by Lucas (so well before all the changes in the 1997 re-release).

[hamishspence]

Actually, "A New Hope" was added when Star Wars was re-released in April of 1981. It's actually the first retroactive change made by Lucas (so well before all the changes in the 1997 re-release).

There were quite a few changes between 1977 and 1981:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases

For the 1981 re-release, the line "Episode IV: A NEW HOPE" was added to the opening crawl. While this is the most noticeable alteration, the entire opening crawl was redone. A new starfield was used, one that was made and used in The Empire Strikes Back, the "Star Wars" title is also from The Empire Strikes Back, but it fades out before the crawl starts. The crawl was reformatted for the music to stay in synchronization and the word "rebel" in "rebel spies" is capitalized, which was not capitalized in the original 1977 crawl. The Tantive IV and Star Destroyer were recomposited with finer border, removing some prominent black lines. More subtly, the lasers and engine glows were adjusted to fit and the moons are in different positions relative to the planet.

and even in 1977 there were subtle changes between "initial release" and "wider release".

[LibraryOgre]

I'll give you that. She did more with Leia than almost anyone else (and of the ones who did use Leia, she did it better. A major character who was fiercely independent shouldn't be reduced to background scenery when she's in the damn title, Courtship of Princess Leia). Maybe I should go give those a re-read and see if they got better as I matured.

Have you read any of the newer Leia stuff? Princess of Alderaan, Bloodline, Moving Target?

[Peelee]

Have you read any of the newer Leia stuff? Princess of Alderaan, Bloodline, Moving Target?

Sorry, I more meant among Legends. Bloodline was fantastic, I want way more Claudia Gray stuff. Also didn't hurt that Lost Stars is somehow the best canon book so far even though it's basically space Romeo and Juliet. That book was way better than it had any reason to be.

It had some interesting scenes starring Corran's father, and a bit of bonding between him and Anakin (they both have secret spouses).

Oh right, it did have him in there. Literally the only thing I remember about that one was it was apparently written by two war historians, and it reads like it.

[hamishspence]

I want way more Claudia Gray stuff.

They do seem to be some of the most popular newcanon books. The next one is a Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan novel called Master & Apprentice, coming out later this year.

[Peelee]

They do seem to be some of the most popular newcanon books. The next one is a Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan novel called Master & Apprentice, coming out later this year.

And then Thrawn: Treason not too long after. It's gonna be a good year for Star Wars books IMO.

[hamishspence]

E.K. Johnston, the writer of Ahsoka , is also doing a Padme-centric novel set between Episode I and Episode II, called Queen's Shadow..

I liked the Ahsoka novel, and Padme is one of the characters that has had very little novel coverage. The closest so far has been Thrawn: Alliances, which I thought was pretty good in that respect. So I'm looking forward to Queen's Shadow.

[Peelee]

E.K. Johnston, the writer of Ahsoka , is also doing a Padme-centric novel set between Episode I and Episode II, called Queen's Shadow..

I liked the Ahsoka novel, and Padme is one of the characters that has had very little novel coverage. The closest so far has been Thrawn: Alliances, which I thought was pretty good in that respect. So I'm looking forward to Queen's Shadow.

I hear it's about her growing up on the streets of the Netherlands, joining a gang of street urchins, going into space, and doing all sorts of stuff behind the scenes.

[Aotrs Commander]

Woah, there's two more Zhan Thrawn books out or shortly out since Thrawn?

*scribbles note down*

Don't particularly care for nucanon generally, but I'll have me some more Zhan Thrawn regardless.

Are the second 'un as good as Thrawn?

[Rogar Demonblud]

That was one of the earliest - The Truce at Bakura.

No, it was a trilogy set much later. With a whole different set of Force users (natch) and something to do with major repairs on the Falcon that annoyed Han because they actually cleaned the ship or something.

[hamishspence]

I thought it was pretty good. It has two main plots - one set during the Clone Wars (Thrawn, Anakin, & Padme) and one set during Rebels (Thrawn and Vader).


No, it was a trilogy set much later. With a whole different set of Force users (natch) and something to do with major repairs on the Falcon that annoyed Han because they actually cleaned the ship or something.

That would be the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy. The Yevetha aren't really much like humanoid raptors - the only raptorish-thing about them is that they have retractable killing claws.

That trilogy gets points from me for having a pretty good Chewie-centric story, where he's more than just a sidekick. Unfortunately, the Chewie stuff is all in book 3.

[Peelee]

I thought it was pretty good. It has two main plots - one set during the Clone Wars (Thrawn, Anakin, & Padme) and one set during Rebels (Thrawn and Vader).
I think I'd like it better if they did a comic adaptation like they did with Thrawn, because it was a little hard for me to visualize, which isn't a problem I usually have with Zahn books. Don't know if they will or not, though. I liked the first one better, but with the groundwork laid by Alliances I'm pretty pumped for Treason to be the best one yet.

That would be the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy. The Yevetha aren't really much like humanoid raptors - the only raptorish-thing about them is that they have retractable killing claws.

That trilogy gets points from me for having a pretty good Chewie-centric story, where he's more than just a sidekick. Unfortunately, the Chewie stuff is all in book 3.
Also Lando being able to go off and do his own thing. Points taken away for the style focusing solely on one character/arc at a time per book, though. That was just weird, assuming I'm remembering it correctly.

[hamishspence]

Points taken away for the style focusing solely on one character/arc at a time per book, though. That was just weird, assuming I'm remembering it correctly.

In book 3, there's only 3 chapters - 1 Lando, 1 Luke, 1 Leia. The other two books aren't broken up quite that way.

The TV Tropes summary of the books as a "Tom Clancy style technothriller"

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/BlackFleetCrisis

seems fair. Ackbar and Drayson in particular get good moments.

[Peelee]

In book 3, there's only 3 chapters - 1 Lando, 1 Luke, 1 Leia. The other two books aren't broken up quite that way.Yeah, but that made a helluva impression.

Ackbar and Drayson in particular get good moments.
Drayson's still not in any of the canon material now, is he? I really liked him. Great spook character.

[hamishspence]

Drayson's still not in any of the canon material now, is he? I really liked him. Great spook character.

Yes - I think his closest counterpart in the newcanon is Draven from Rogue One.

[LibraryOgre]

Sorry, I more meant among Legends. Bloodline was fantastic, I want way more Claudia Gray stuff. Also didn't hurt that Lost Stars is somehow the best canon book so far even though it's basically space Romeo and Juliet. That book was way better than it had any reason to be.


I got ya; I was seguing. Yeah, Lost Stars was fantastic, and Bloodline was good enough I had to turn it off a couple times as I got angry at Mr. Empire Apologist.

Oh, and on the younger novels front... "The Princess, The Scoundrel, and the Farmboy" was really good. Smugglers Run was pretty good. There was a Luke one, "So You Want to Be a Jedi" that feels like it was aimed a LOT lower than the other ones.

[Darth Ultron]

My guess (purely on the basis that the idea of someone imagining/making two really different R2's at the same time feels off, but I can imagine me being any of the people in this version) would be that
In the scripts you literally had two (very similar) R2's. Hence the dialog
The design get changed when building the props, either because they thought it would be confusing to the audience, R2 was too expensive to duplicate in red, or they wanted to show off.
Someone gave it a new name then, or decided that someone else would (possibly even calling it the R-5)
Nobody from the scripts or props thought to mention it. It wasn't changed in the scripts, and nobody noticed (or cared).

In most of the Star Wars scripts the ''little trash can like robot(s)" are called R2 units. We do see at least four different types the ones on the Tantive IV, R5-D4 on Tatooine, the ones on the Death Star and the ones on Yavin.

[Blackhawk748]

I remember reading one of those Star Wars Insider magazines (yes, I was a HUGE dork), and someone asked this in one of the question columns (although I think it was regarding 3PO calling another droid an "R2 unit," not Luke). The answer given was that calling an Astromech droid an "R2 unit" is kind of like how everyone calls adhesive bandages "band-aids:" in theory, band-aids are only one of a number of bandage brands, but it's the most common and has become shorthand for that kind of product. Likewise, R2 units were the model of modern Astromech that first became popular (IIRC, the R1s were huge and clunky), so R2 became the shorthand.

That makes the most sense to me, sorta like how Kleenex is common term for facial tissue.

The other reason could be that the Droid seems to have have been cobbled together. I mean, hi legs are blue and the rest is red, which isn't how other astromechs are shown. So its possible that its an R2 unit but with an R4 head part.

[Olinser]

I thought it was pretty good. It has two main plots - one set during the Clone Wars (Thrawn, Anakin, & Padme) and one set during Rebels (Thrawn and Vader).



That would be the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy. The Yevetha aren't really much like humanoid raptors - the only raptorish-thing about them is that they have retractable killing claws.

That trilogy gets points from me for having a pretty good Chewie-centric story, where he's more than just a sidekick. Unfortunately, the Chewie stuff is all in book 3.

For Black Fleet Crisis the story itself was decent, but it lost major points for utterly destroying a couple types of canon - namely completely inventing never before seen group of 'Force' users that was effectively magic, utterly failing to do any kind of research into how space combat in Star Wars actually worked and pulling a whole bunch of things out of the author's ass, having a whole slew of characters act in utterly ridiculous idiot ways, and then resolving the main conflict with multiple giant DXMs.

It's not the worst trilogy in the EU, but it's definitely towards the bottom.

[LibraryOgre]

The thread of Fluffy. (https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=590&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

[The Glyphstone]

The thread of Fluffy. (https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=590&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

I have no idea what those stats mean, but I love it all the same.

[factotum]

That makes the most sense to me, sorta like how Kleenex is common term for facial tissue.

The other reason could be that the Droid seems to have have been cobbled together. I mean, hi legs are blue and the rest is red, which isn't how other astromechs are shown. So its possible that its an R2 unit but with an R4 head part.

The red droid definitely looks far less sleek and "modern" than R2-D2 does, so it's even odder that it apparently comes from a newer line (you'd assume the R5 line is an updated version of the R2 one, surely).

[Peelee]

The red droid definitely looks far less sleek and "modern" than R2-D2 does, so it's even odder that it apparently comes from a newer line (you'd assume the R5 line is an updated version of the R2 one, surely).

A new i5 can beat an old i7. Though R2-D2 is like 30 years old. I like the technological plateau theory myself.

[Olinser]

The red droid definitely looks far less sleek and "modern" than R2-D2 does, so it's even odder that it apparently comes from a newer line (you'd assume the R5 line is an updated version of the R2 one, surely).

Different models, different purposes. Just because it's newer with a higher number doesn't mean that it's actually more advanced, as we see proof of in the real world today. Especially in technology, often times later models REMOVE unnecessary, unpopular, or not-working-as-intended features and try to cut prices to produce a cheaper end product that can still fulfill the basic intended mission, rather than just being a performance upgrade.

In this case I believe that they were explicitly designed to be cheaper than R2 units, rather than higher performing.

[LibraryOgre]

In fact, the R5 was explicitly the "budget" version. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/R5-series_astromech_droid)



The R5-series astromech droid was a line of low-cost astromech droids built by Industrial Automaton. Based upon the success of prior astromech models, such as the wildly popular R2-series, Industrial Automaton intended the R5-series to cater to budget buyers at the cost of some functionality.[1]