Dawn of War DC?

[MeklorIlavator]

I was just replaying the DAwn of War Dark Crusade Campaign, and I realized that I never really understood something. Why is the Tau level so difficult?

I know it is difficult, and I'm not really arguing about that. My question is why, exactly, is it so difficult? The Tau are pretty weak, physically, yet they seem to be stronger than either the Space Marines or the necrons, but only on that map.

[LordVader]

Well, I played it on Easy, and the Tau didn't really put up too much of a fight against my pre-Patch 1.2 Necrons. Basically, my Lord with the mask to detect invisible troops just teleported up at those stealth suit teams and slaughtered them, and the rest was just a slow push through the city using masses of Necron Warriors, especially thanks to the fact that the Res Orb resurrection was not capped at 24 pop.:smallamused:


Basically, the OOC reason is that Space Marines, Chaos and Necrons have to be massively nerfed so they're actually beatable in the video games and the TT one.

[starwoof]

The tau are in an entrenched position where they outnumber you... a lot! Thats pretty much 1+1= difficult mission. They also have long range guns and are surprisingly good on the defensive.. though they keep the pressure on you the whole time you're on the mission.

I hate taking out the Tau. :smallannoyed:


EDIT: First time I did it I did it on easy. Sent my 13000 hp warboss in a truck in and took out Ethereal Joe with my p-fist. He works just as well in DoW as on TT!:smallbiggrin:

EDIT2: Now I really wanna go play DC.

[The Orange Zergling]

I just won by attrition, pretty much. As Orks I kept sending Stormboyz and Slugga Boyz through the city with Gorgutz detecting the snipers. I think I had a Bigmek teleport up to some of them, though. As IG, I massed Guardsmen and basically used them as meatshields while my artillery bombarded the snipers and bases.

And remember, for the most part, you don't need to see the snipers, only know where they are. Attack-ground is your friend.

[LordVader]

As stated before, I also used attrition, with a little help from the fact that my Necron Warriors were dropping casualties in more than 1 place, so when I rezzed them with the Orb, I got 2+ squads more than I had before, and then fully reinforced them. >=)

Also, watching my tooled-up Necron Lord teleport up to the Stealth Suit teams and impale them on the end of his staff was most satisfying.

[starwoof]

I have a kinda off topic question:

Why are necrons invincible? Ive been playing a mission for like an hour and everytime I get the monolith almost dead it vanishes. :smallannoyed:

[The Orange Zergling]

Fully-upgraded Monolith can teleport.

Personally, I think they're a bit overpowered. Even so, I love my free-flayed ones/immortals. :smallbiggrin: (I play totally unpatched version in case that matters)

[starwoof]

Fully-upgraded Monolith can teleport.

Personally, I think they're a bit overpowered. Even so, I love my free-flayed ones/immortals. :smallbiggrin: (I play totally unpatched version in case that matters)

Ok... I figured that one out. So theres no trick to killing it then. Fan-bloody-tastic.

[TheOtherMC]

Ok... I figured that one out. So theres no trick to killing it then. Fan-bloody-tastic.

Yeah, when they're just about dead they teleport back to wherever they were built, but with almost no hp and becomes just a starter monolith again untill it "repairs itself" back to full. Pretty much hunt the SOB down at its base and take it out with a fast unit before it can come back again.

[Kraggi]

Nono, it teleports back to el base and downgrades one step when it gets down to a certain level.

[LordVader]

Fully-upgraded Monolith can teleport.

Personally, I think they're a bit overpowered. Even so, I love my free-flayed ones/immortals. :smallbiggrin: (I play totally unpatched version in case that matters)

Patch 1.2 severly nerfed them. Capped Rez Orb at 24 pop, reduced Warrior firing range and accuracy, and in general lowered them to the level of us mortals.:smalltongue:

[MeklorIlavator]

Yeah, I know that the necrons are overpowered, which is why I was surprised when I had a lot of trouble taking the Tau base. Though with space marines, I "walked" the teleports forwards(drop dreadnought from orbital relay, walk forward until almost dead, drop dreadnought from orbital relay until almost dead, repeat), until I saw the ethereal, ans then summoned assault termies.

Oh, I'm about to try and take them out with eldar(its only them and the SM), so does anyone have good strategies with them? I've mainly been using my webway gates stealth+turrets to provide defense, and use my army to take Strategic points near choke points, then set up some more turrets and webway gates, but I'm not sure how effective that's going to be in this level.

[Albub]

What happens in Campaign when someone attack your capital? do you get a cool mission only with odds stacked in your favour?

[TheOtherMC]

What happens in Campaign when someone attack your capital? do you get a cool mission only with odds stacked in your favour?

Sadly no. You just end up on a frustratingly unfamilliar map that will probably make you cry. Case in point: the Necron capital alternate map.

[Albub]

Sadly no. You just end up on a frustratingly unfamilliar map that will probably make you cry. Case in point: the Necron capital alternate map.

Poop. Lazy barstools.

[starwoof]

I was really excited when my base was attacked! Hurray, I get to turn the titan gun on those scuzzy crons! Wait, its on a normal mission?

Bullspoon!

See, that was surprising...

[Elliot Kane]

The Tau base is actually pretty easy. I never had a problem with it at all with Orks, Guard, Space Marines or Necrons (The Necrons took it out when I played Chaos, annoyingly). Once you've established your base, it's almost impossible to lose. The Tau have a ton of invisible creatures, sure, but none of those invisible creatures can see other invisible creatures.

A couple of teams of snipers can take out almost everything in the city with no problem and minimal casualties. The only actually hard part is the final entrenched position in the top corner.

The Orks are a bit different, but almost every one of their elites can see invisible creatures, so they just rampage through and kill everything.

***

The main bases you have to defend are utterly crocked. The one weak part of the game, IMO.

[The Orange Zergling]

But you have to admit, it would be too easy. You have 80% of the map already controlled, you have scenario-specific weapons, and you have far too many troops and resources than would normally be possible. At the start of the game.

The thing about the computer is that if they dedicated all of their troops to destroying your little camp from the start, you'd be utterly crushed every time you stormed a capital. The computer doesn't know that, but you, as a human, do.

If an enemy has ever attacked a capital you have already sacked, it's like that. They have a tiny little base off to the side, while you have everything you built up trying to take the thing.

Still kind of disappointing, though. Might be able to be prevented by having the attacker as advanced as you at the beginning.

[Closet_Skeleton]

In the Tau capital mission, the Tau are cheating by having both their normally exclusive buildings. This allows them to combine battle suits with their powerful Metallurgy upgrade, making their units harder to kill than normal.

[MeklorIlavator]

Just finished the mission. And surprisingly, it wasn't that difficult, mainly due to my turrets being able to defend my main base because of the cloaking. Plus, I was able to use my forces to punch to the top of the stairs(on the main platform), and then teleported 3 warp spiders next to the ethereal. The only annoying part was when I lost my 2 ranger squads early on because they were scouting an enemy base(the one right above the starting position), and I got distracted due to a heavy base camp, and the battle around my base prevented me from realizing that the rangers had been discovered.

[The Orange Zergling]

IMO, the Eldar capitol was the hardest of 'em all. Maybe it was because I always save them for last, but damn, it took me hours to get through that thing. They just keep coming and coming and coming... and coming... and coming...

And always where it's most inconvenient. Musn't forget that.

[MeklorIlavator]

IMO, the Eldar capitol was the hardest of 'em all. Maybe it was because I always save them for last, but damn, it took me hours to get through that thing. They just keep coming and coming and coming... and coming... and coming...

And always where it's most inconvenient. Musn't forget that.

Really? I found that to be the easiest capital. Though, I ignored the forward base until I had completely taken out the orks, so my army was effectively maxed before it upped the difficulty.

[Foeofthelance]

Fully-upgraded Monolith can teleport.

Including right off the map. I'll see if I can get the video out of my friends, but during one game we actually had this happen. I was getting my butt kicked all over by the computer (my friend's game, he had it set for insane, I didn't know, and it was my first necron game) when I managed to get it finished. It vanished...and didn't come back. Better yet, the computer swore it was still there! This allowed me to limp into a corner with another fully restored monolith, set up a base, and proceed to execute all enemies while their forces were occupied by the not-quite-there monolith.

[Ailurus]

I didn't have many problems with the Tau level using the Guard. A couple autocannoned HWTs on both open sides took down nearly all the Tau pretty fast. For advancing them, I just set up a Basilisk in my base, and tossed Earthshaker rounds on the sniper positions, rolling pairs of Lemans forward to get rid of the command posts. After that, just sent my two assassins (one from the honor guard, one trained) to knock out the enemy leader.

Orks were messier, since holding out until I had nobz was kind of tricky, but once I got 2 nobz and 2 flash gits out, plus a couple killa kans to handle the giant dinosaur (krootox?) it was a slaughter.

Hardest one for me, with both guard and orks, was the Eldar as well. The initial stages were pretty easy, but holding the final position was hard - anything I sent up the cliff to try to try to take out some of their production buildings was pounded into tiny pieces, and just waiting didn't work because sooner or later their massive vehicle swarms would come down and smash one of my three defensive spots.

[Albub]

I beat the Eldar fairly easily with Necrons by using nightbringer + teleporting my monolith filled with flayed ones. The bazillion pariahs I had helped too, yay res orb cheating!

[Elliot Kane]

The easiest base, IMO, is the Space Marines. It's poorly laid out and doesn't do them any favours at all. I never had a problem with that one at all.

The Eldar base is a bit sticky at the start, because they keep teleporting Warp Spiders into your base, but once they stop doing that they aren't too hard. You don't have to take out their mega-base, after all - just hold the gates for a few minutes, which with the reinforcements you get is not too hard. For the Guard it's probably easier to take the end base out, though, with the help of Earthshaker rounds and horrendous long range firepower.

The hardest base has to be the Necrons, though, because you have to deal with three Tomb Spyders and several infantry units right at the start before you can even start to set up. Once that's done, it's a simple grinding match, but not really any harder than any other base.

[Tekraen]

I didn't have many problems with the Tau level using the Guard. A couple autocannoned HWTs on both open sides took down nearly all the Tau pretty fast. For advancing them, I just set up a Basilisk in my base, and tossed Earthshaker rounds on the sniper positions, rolling pairs of Lemans forward to get rid of the command posts. After that, just sent my two assassins (one from the honor guard, one trained) to knock out the enemy leader.

Orks were messier, since holding out until I had nobz was kind of tricky, but once I got 2 nobz and 2 flash gits out, plus a couple killa kans to handle the giant dinosaur (krootox?) it was a slaughter.

Hardest one for me, with both guard and orks, was the Eldar as well. The initial stages were pretty easy, but holding the final position was hard - anything I sent up the cliff to try to try to take out some of their production buildings was pounded into tiny pieces, and just waiting didn't work because sooner or later their massive vehicle swarms would come down and smash one of my three defensive spots.

Not for me. They tended to smash the center position the most, so I focused a Basilisk on the center route and let it pound the units down. A Russ at the bottom tended to finish the job, but I usually had two there, and one each at the other two ends (for taking out the ork and chaos bases). The Baneblade was on standby if any tried to break through, but they couldn't charge out of their favored spot (and really didn't try otherwise).

[Blayze]

The bazillion pariahs I had helped too, yay res orb cheating!

I don't know if it was fixed or not, but I remember the Pariah invincibility bug working against me while on the IG level. Stupid minus HP invincible enemies...

And on the subject of bugs, does anybody remember the bug with instadeath weapons such as the Titan Cannon (I think it works with that) or the Chaos Blood Tower things?

I placed my Necron Lord in the path of a Blood Tower by mistake. I had seen first-hand what the damn things did to my troops, so when I realised that I could not save him in time, I activated his Nightbringer ability.

The AOE struck the Nightbringer. As an insta-death weapon, it SHOULD have killed him. However, the Nightbringer is invincible. The result? The Nightbringer turned back into the Necron Lord...

...and was no longer under my control. Yes, I had an ally. And I was able to create another Necron Lord and repeat the process. The damn fool ran off and got himself killed each time my became my ally, however, but that's beside the point.

Now, the question I put to you is this: Could that same trick be repeated with, say, an entire Space Marine army under the protection of the Librarian's Word of the Emperor psychic power?

[warty goblin]

The easiest base, IMO, is the Space Marines. It's poorly laid out and doesn't do them any favours at all. I never had a problem with that one at all.

The Eldar base is a bit sticky at the start, because they keep teleporting Warp Spiders into your base, but once they stop doing that they aren't too hard. You don't have to take out their mega-base, after all - just hold the gates for a few minutes, which with the reinforcements you get is not too hard. For the Guard it's probably easier to take the end base out, though, with the help of Earthshaker rounds and horrendous long range firepower.

The hardest base has to be the Necrons, though, because you have to deal with three Tomb Spyders and several infantry units right at the start before you can even start to set up. Once that's done, it's a simple grinding match, but not really any harder than any other base.

I found the trick to the Eldar base when I was playing Space Marines was to just park my two veteran terminators with assault cannons around my base. As soon as those Warp Spiders showed up, they were pretty much gunned down without mercy. I never did actually eradicate the orcs, just broke their position so badly that they weren't a threat anymore.

[Elliot Kane]

I found the trick to the Eldar base when I was playing Space Marines was to just park my two veteran terminators with assault cannons around my base. As soon as those Warp Spiders showed up, they were pretty much gunned down without mercy. I never did actually eradicate the orcs, just broke their position so badly that they weren't a threat anymore.

Heavy Weapon emplacements have the same effect with the guard :)

Gotta admit, I obliterated everything in the Eldar base mission, whichever army I was playing. Just to make sure any survivors couldn't do anything to inconvenience me.

The Eldar base was usually the last I took down because of its location, which is inconvenient to get at to say the least.

[MeklorIlavator]

The Eldar base was usually the last I took down because of its location, which is inconvenient to get at to say the least.

For me it was the 3rd place I assaulted as Space Marines. And I won easily.

[Mr._Blinky]

Not sure about anyone else's methods, but I have found the combination of SM forces that will ultimately annihilate almost any IG force. Just load up three squads of scout snipers, a few assault marines, a dread, and two or three squads of tac. marines armed with 5 rockets each. I slaughtered pretty much anything they sent at me without breaking a sweat, and took out their baneblade ridiculously fast. Any infantry just got wiped the hell out by my twelve snipers, who usually ended up taking out entire squads in single volleys.

[LordVader]

In other news, this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJdBatvnjc)of Chaos Sync Kills set to "Bodies" is awesome. :smallcool:

DoW has to be the most blatantly violent RTS I've ever played.

[starwoof]

In other news, this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJdBatvnjc)of Chaos Sync Kills set to "Bodies" is awesome. :smallcool:

DoW has to be the most blatantly violent RTS I've ever played.

Amen brother. Its warhammer!:smallbiggrin:

[The Orange Zergling]

In other news, this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJdBatvnjc)of Chaos Sync Kills set to "Bodies" is awesome. :smallcool:

DoW has to be the most blatantly violent RTS I've ever played.

I agree, on the count that organs fly out when you kill people.

[warty goblin]

I agree, on the count that organs fly out when you kill people.

And then you send out your kroot to dine on the remains and grow strong- now that's some serious gore! I've always loved that animation...

[The Orange Zergling]

I always thought it would be cool if future Kroot gained teeny tiny bonuses if your current Kroot devoured corpses, like +1-2 melee damage or something.

But that'd probably be overpowered, especially against cannon fodder races like Orks and IG.

[TheOtherMC]

I always thought it would be cool if future Kroot gained teeny tiny bonuses if your current Kroot devoured corpses, like +1-2 melee damage or something.

But that'd probably be overpowered, especially against cannon fodder races like Orks and IG.

Actually all Kroot get the health bonus from eating coprses, even new squads

[The Orange Zergling]

Oh, really? I thought it was just a regeneration bonus while they were devouring the corpse.

[Elliot Kane]

For me it was the 3rd place I assaulted as Space Marines. And I won easily.

I went for the Guard base first when playing the Space Marines, because it's the closest one that can attack me. Plus it's the right direction to get Khorne's altar-thingy. Two attacks per turn is one of the more useful abilities to get.

Talking of - did anyone ever find any point to the Bulwark bonus? What does it do, exactly?

[TheOtherMC]

Oh, really? I thought it was just a regeneration bonus while they were devouring the corpse.

Nope. Its IMO the one good fluffy thing they got right with Tau. See that little number by their portrait when they feed? The +whatever. Thats the current health bonus ALL Kroot have gotten from feeding. I think the max is 300. (That translates to 300 extra hp per freakin carnivore......god then add the shaper bonus....)

[Artanis]

In the single-player campaign, I always found even the hardest base assaults to be easier than a heavily-guarded non-base mission. In a base assault, if you survive the first few waves the AI throws at you, you're golden, and the rest is overglorified mop-up. But if you're put up against 2 or 3 AIs on an otherwise "balanced" map, and give each of those AIs a fully-built base while you start from scratch, you're in for a world of hurt.

So what I would always do is make getting the space port and the two moves per turn my first priority, regardless of race. Once I had those, I would target territories adjacent to enemy bases until I could assault any enemy base without slogging through a "normal" territory first.

After that, I had effectively won. I mopped up to get any other bonuses I felt like before walking in and taking down the enemy bases at my leisure. Necrons usually came first because I always found the initial counterassault of their base mission the hardest to contend with. After that, it was pretty much just whoever caught my eye (and hadn't been taken out by another AI, of course).

[LordVader]

DoW expansion, Soulstorm, has just been announced. Will contain Dark Eldar and one other race, some people on RelicForums think it'll be WH, some Nids, it's pretty split. Also, air units and new units will be added.

<3

[Tekraen]

DoW expansion, Soulstorm, has just been announced. Will contain Dark Eldar and one other race, some people on RelicForums think it'll be WH, some Nids, it's pretty split. Also, air units and new units will be added.

<3

Ooooh. Delishus.

[Revlid]

Er... What? How?

A sequel, fine, I'd be up in the air, but another expansion?
I thought they couldn't do Nids with the current engine?
And how are they going to do Dark Eldar when they'll probably be drastically re-designed when re-released, seeing as they kinda suck right now?

Gah. I have all these problems, but then I remember; it's DoW. None of this matters!

[Drascin]

Yah, they said 'Nids couldn't be done with this engine... which means the second race cannot, logically, be them. Problem is, what else is left? Sisters of Battle? Witch Hunters? (ye gods, more marine-like armies no, please)

[LordVader]

I'm guessing you don't play TT?

Witch Hunters are nothing like Space Marines. They have a completely different flavor, units, set of tactics. And maybe they've progressed enough for Nids, maybe not, but I for one would be perfectly happy with WH.

[A Rainy Knight]

What's this? New Dawn of War expansion?

Sweeeeeeeeet. :smallbiggrin:

Personally, I would prefer to have the 'nids over the Witchhunters, simply because the 'nids would be more different from the other races in the game than the WH would be. Dark Eldar seems like a logical choice, too.

Has there been any announcement of a release date on it?

[Arang]

The cinematic at the end of DC says "2007". But that might be as in "In 2007, we won't be releasing anything related to WH40K whatsoever."

Is it just me, or is the Chaos stronghold nigh impossible if you're not prepared and a cakewalk if you know what happens in the first ten seconds? So ... many ... Horrors ... all over my beautiful Heavy Bolter Turrets ...

Then I got an Assassin and the problem took care of itself. :smallamused:

[Kraggi]

That is awesome. Dark Eldar are the one race I really wished I could play in DC. This makes me very happy! I've had to deal with pretending the regular eldar are evil.. and cooler....

[LordVader]

I believe date is Spring '08.
Also, unless Relic has improved the engine, which is possible, I don't think we'll be seeing Nids.

[sikyon]

I've played the game pretty extensively in single player, here are my thoughts:

Eldar - don't play as them too much. Capital mission is easy, but actually destroying their base is nigh impossible. Too many fire prisms... I managed to wreak it once though, as IG I think. Used bassies and spotters to take out production facilities and went in with a zillion tanks/infantry.

Orks - don't play as them too much either. Killa kanz are amazing though, they are friggin hard to kill. Last Ork mission is simple, they are spread out too much.

Space Marines - Mass Space Marine tactical squads, and kit them out with whatever you want. You can take your opponent early easy with heavy bolters/heavy weapons upgrade at Teir 2 vs AI, no need for tanks (a small squad with missiles will take out tanks anyways, as will a commander). Last mission is a snap, they are far too spread out

Chaos - Good units, defiler owns but otherwise abit lackluster. Go powerful CC to win... Hard last level... till you figure out how to put your guys into tanks.

Tau - Hammerheads have amazing firepower, but if you want real power go with krootox (amazing CC) and MASS FIREWARRIORS. Had trouble with start.

Necrons - No move/shoot penalties and amazing firepower/resliance make them... amazing. Last level is easy, just make sure to bring lots of infantry killing units and a transport or 2.

IG - Mass tanks. Karskin are good too for killing heavy infantry, otherwise sorta weak. Just mass numbers and micro commisars. Mass everything. Last level is somewhat of a pain with the assasin, but overall not too bad.

This is all 1.0

And my personal experiance.

Also, on the campain, I like to build up my base alot before crushing my opponent, it makes defending so much easiier.

[The Orange Zergling]

I'd like to see Nids, definitely. However, I think the Inquisition/WH/SoB are more likely, sadly. Still, AIR UNITS!!!!!!!!1111 :smallbiggrin:

[Mr._Blinky]

Wait, could someone clue me in to their explanation as to why the engine can't do 'nids? How is it any harder than the other races?

[The Orange Zergling]

Wait, could someone clue me in to their explanation as to why the engine can't do 'nids? How is it any harder than the other races?

I think it's the sheer scale of a Tyranid infestation. As in, the game can't process so many units at once. I think. But then again the IG are massive but only get like 13 guys per squad, at a max of about 10 squads...

[Blayze]

Perhaps things could be simplified somewhat. Do it in waves. For example, if the production time of Tyranid units were to be faster than that of other races, they could keep a continual stream of units flooding out of their base and into the faces of the enemy, while keeping a controllable limit on the number of Tyranid models in the field at any one time.

[Artanis]

Personally, I would prefer to have the 'nids over the Witchhunters, simply because the 'nids would be more different from the other races in the game than the WH would be.
If anything, that seems like a good reason to go with Witch Hunters instead. Remember all the balancing nightmares caused by how different the Necrons are? I don't think Relic would be too keen on going through that again :smallwink:

[The Orange Zergling]

If anything, that seems like a good reason to go with Witch Hunters instead. Remember all the balancing nightmares caused by how different the Necrons are? I don't think Relic would be too keen on going through that again :smallwink:

Yeah, but 'nids can die, as opposed to just sit on the ground till your not-so-friendly local Necron Lord comes along and pops his Rez Orb. Only major difference I can see is that Tyranids would have one resource, Biomass, possibly gained by devouring corpses, or by capturing strategic points and building 'funnels' ontop of them, transporting resources from the Hive fleet.

At least, that's how I imagine it.

[BRC]

I'd like to see Nids, definitely. However, I think the Inquisition/WH/SoB are more likely, sadly. Still, AIR UNITS!!!!!!!!1111 :smallbiggrin:
Personally I like that they have no air units as it makes terrain much more important, and the few units that Can bypass terrain (albeit just with jumps) much more valuable. If you can build armies of air units chokepoints are pointless because you can just have your air units fly past/around them.