Adding Magus Arcana as an ACF for the duskblade

[Awakeninfinity]

A few searches turned up nothing so here I am;

So I was think of dropping the Arcane Attunement and spellpower+n for an Arcane pool; and dropping quick cast for Magus Arcana... My question how would this effect the Duskblade, would it be more or less powerful?

[ColorBlindNinja]

A few searches turned up nothing so here I am;

So I was think of dropping the Arcane Attunement and spellpower+n for an Arcane pool; and dropping quick cast for Magus Arcana... My question how would this effect the Duskblade, would it be more or less powerful?

Losing Arcane Attunement and Spellpower won't be much of a loss.

Losing Quick Cast hurts a lot more, since otherwise the Duskblade can't make use of quicken at all and it represents a nice boost to action economy.

I'm not convinced that adding Arcane Pool and Magus Arcana will make a huge difference. It'll make the class a tad more versatile, depending on what Arcana you pick. But I don't think it'll be a much of a bump in power.

Maybe a slight drop since, again, free quicken is so useful.

[Kurald Galain]

So I was think of dropping the Arcane Attunement and spellpower+n for an Arcane pool; and dropping quick cast for Magus Arcana... My question how would this effect the Duskblade, would it be more or less powerful?

That's a straightforward power increase. Spell power and attunement don't really make a difference, and using several arcana many times per day is clearly better than using quicken once or twice only.

And that's actually pretty good. Magus is hands-down a much more powerful class than the duskblade, so dusky could certainly use the help. In particular, the dusky has big issues doing anything other than combat damage. The Flamboyant and Spell Shield arcana could help with its admittedly crappy defense (dusky has no feasible defense spells on his list...), and Familiar and especially Spell Blending will give a much-needed boost to its versatility. And Hasted Assault is always good.

I say go for it, it's much better than straight dusky.

[ColorBlindNinja]

That's a straightforward power increase. Spell power and attunement don't really make a difference, and using several arcana many times per day is clearly better than using quicken once or twice only.

Interesting. Are the Arcana that much better than free quicken?


And that's actually pretty good. Magus is hands-down a much more powerful class than the duskblade, so dusky could certainly use the help. In particular, the dusky has big issues doing anything other than combat damage. The Flamboyant and Spell Shield arcana could help with its admittedly crappy defense (dusky has no feasible defense spells on his list...), and Familiar and especially Spell Blending will give a much-needed boost to its versatility. And Hasted Assault is always good.

I say go for it, it's much better than straight dusky.

In that case, I may have to import the Magus class into a 3.5 game and give it a test run...

[Kurald Galain]

Interesting. Are the Arcana that much better than free quicken?
Don't get me wrong, quickening twice per day is a very useful ability, and certainly better than most of the arcana. But some of the better arcana give it a run for its money; such as gaining a familiar, or learning two spells of your choice from the wizard list, or Hasting yourself as a swift action every combat.


In that case, I may have to import the Magus class into a 3.5 game and give it a test run...
I definitely recommend that :smallsmile: The main issue with dusky is that his spell list is very short and does basically only one thing (i.e. single-target damage); whereas the Magus gets quite a nice selection of crowd control (e.g. glitterdust, black tentacles), defense (e.g. shield, displacement), area effects (e.g. slow, fireball), and utility (e.g. silent image, polymorph, mount). Here, have a class guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423754-Myrrh-Frankincense-and-Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus). HTH!

[ColorBlindNinja]

Don't get me wrong, quickening twice per day is a very useful ability, and certainly better than most of the arcana. But some of the better arcana give it a run for its money; such as gaining a familiar, or learning two spells of your choice from the wizard list, or Hasting yourself as a swift action every combat.

Getting the extra Wizard spells is certainly a worthy trade off, but I can get a Familiar via a feat in 3.5.



I definitely recommend that :smallsmile: The main issue with dusky is that his spell list is very short and does basically only one thing (i.e. single-target damage); whereas the Magus gets quite a nice selection of crowd control (e.g. glitterdust, black tentacles), defense (e.g. shield, displacement), area effects (e.g. slow, fireball), and utility (e.g. silent image, polymorph, mount). Here, have a class guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423754-Myrrh-Frankincense-and-Steel-Kurald-Galain-s-Guide-to-the-Magus). HTH!

Thanks, I'll take a look at it. :smallsmile:

[Psyren]

Getting the extra Wizard spells is certainly a worthy trade off, but I can get a Familiar via a feat in 3.5.

Feats are generally more valuable than arcana, since you can get arcana via feats but also get other things that you might also need for your build like Combat Casting. If you think of an Arcana as 0.75 of a feat or so, that means you're getting that familiar at a discounted price compared to blowing a feat on it.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Feats are generally more valuable than arcana, since you can get arcana via feats but also get other things that you might also need for your build like Combat Casting. If you think of an Arcana as 0.75 of a feat or so, that means you're getting that familiar at a discounted price compared to blowing a feat on it.

I see. But why would I want Combat Casting, except maybe as a prerequisite?

[Psyren]

I see. But why would I want Combat Casting, except maybe as a prerequisite?

Depends on the base you're using. In 3.5, concentration checks are very easy so you probably don't (and it's a skill, so SF:Conc does almost everything it does and more in some cases.) In a Pathfinder base however, SF:Conc doesn't exist and concentration checks are harder, so casting defensively is also tougher and CC is helpful.

Of course, if you're using 3.5 as a base, that means fewer feats in general, so the point still stands. CC was just an example - don't overthink that, swap in your favorite feat instead if that one appeals more.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Depends on the base you're using. In 3.5, concentration checks are very easy so you probably don't (and it's a skill, so SF:Conc does almost everything it does and more in some cases.) In a Pathfinder base however, SF:Conc doesn't exist and concentration checks are harder, so casting defensively is also tougher and CC is helpful.

Of course, if you're using 3.5 as a base, that means fewer feats in general, so the point still stands. CC was just an example - don't overthink that, swap in your favorite feat instead if that one appeals more.

Okay, that makes sense. Thank you for explaining.

[Awakeninfinity]

That's a straightforward power increase. Spell power and attunement don't really make a difference, and using several arcana many times per day is clearly better than using quicken once or twice only.

And that's actually pretty good. Magus is hands-down a much more powerful class than the duskblade, so dusky could certainly use the help. In particular, the dusky has big issues doing anything other than combat damage. The Flamboyant and Spell Shield arcana could help with its admittedly crappy defense (dusky has no feasible defense spells on his list...), and Familiar and especially Spell Blending will give a much-needed boost to its versatility. And Hasted Assault is always good.

I say go for it, it's much better than straight dusky.

Yeah I noticed that it can only deal one thing well and that is damage, O hate being a one trick pony through out a game. I'm gonna ask my DM's about doing this because I really like the Arcana and Don't want to play a full Magus in game (a fellow player would probably get very salty if I did, and I hate drama) what do you think would the best options to take (let's assume one Arcana every five levels... So it follows the quicken spell pattern(