How to help a Simulacrum become a real person

[MarkVIIIMarc]

So lets say you stumble upon the Simulacrum of a young elf woman and the Simulacrum reports her/its creator has died and it/she would like nothing more than to be a real person.

Short of a Wish spell, which is too common an answer, is their any way to do this?

If there are no 5e mechanics, does anything come close to sounding reasonable?

[Galithar]

On the sounds reasonable side of things, a blessing and intervention of a deity of life? It's gonna take a hell of a lot for an animated statue of snow and ice to actually become a real person and short of a God not much would have that kind of power.

Alternatively a series of quests recovering the processes and materials for a powerful ritual. Maybe something like a powerful component from each of the Elemental planes could make for an interesting extended quest line. (Have an NPC facilitate their travels if you need control of plane hopping)

[Malifice]

So lets say you stumble upon the Simulacrum of a young elf woman and the Simulacrum reports her/its creator has died and it/she would like nothing more than to be a real person.

Short of a Wish spell, which is too common an answer, is their any way to do this?

If there are no 5e mechanics, does anything come close to sounding reasonable?

Divine intervention (Cleric class feature, if not simple fiat) also works.

Cleric: 'Please Torm, let this woman be a real girl. Pinocchio the crap out of her!'

[Zhorn]

Divine intervention (Cleric class feature, if not simple fiat) also works.
Cleric: 'Please Torm, let this woman be a real girl. Pinocchio the crap out of her!'

There's probably going to some trial of character though, having to prove themselves to be selfless, brave and true.

[Damon_Tor]

So lets say you stumble upon the Simulacrum of a young elf woman and the Simulacrum reports her/its creator has died and it/she would like nothing more than to be a real person.

Short of a Wish spell, which is too common an answer, is their any way to do this?

If there are no 5e mechanics, does anything come close to sounding reasonable?

It depends on where the bar is. Is there some reason it can't be "true polymorphed" into a human being? You can true polymorph rocks into people if you feel like it, so why not?

Once they're polymorphed, make a clone of them, then kill them, and they should now be inside the body which is a clone of the human they polymorphed into. So dispel magic shouldn't revert them anymore. Unless the DM argues the simulacrum has no soul, in which case getting it one becomes the challenge. Something about a baby (has a soul but it mindless) and a magic jar?

[dragoeniex]

It may be riskier and grayer than you were hoping, but there's something to be said for making a deal with a devil.

The contract isn't for the simulacrum's soul, of course; there's nothing there to give. Instead, in exchange for some service or loyalty, the devil gives her one of the souls its had simmering for a while.

Consequences ensue.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

It depends on where the bar is. Is there some reason it can't be "true polymorphed" into a human being? You can true polymorph rocks into people if you feel like it, so why not?

Once they're polymorphed, make a clone of them, then kill them, and they should now be inside the body which is a clone of the human they polymorphed into. So dispel magic shouldn't revert them anymore. Unless the DM argues the simulacrum has no soul, in which case getting it one becomes the challenge. Something about a baby (has a soul but it mindless) and a magic jar?


It may be riskier and grayer than you were hoping, but there's something to be said for making a deal with a devil.

The contract isn't for the simulacrum's soul, of course; there's nothing there to give. Instead, in exchange for some service or loyalty, the devil gives her one of the souls its had simmering for a while.

Consequences ensue.

Thinking out loud...

I really like these ideas. There are some wording issues with True Polymorph and a Simulacrum. Is a Simulacrum an "Object" for one and the creature you are turned into has to be CR9 or lower which might affect my particular instance since I didn't go into enough detail.

Hmmm, deal with a devil for a soul. I hadn't thought about that....or a deity I'll ad. Once again in my particular case the person the Simulacrum is a copy of may be dead by this time. ......the party will almost certainly know where Blackrazor is by this time, if they haven't decided to keep it for themselves....

I'm thinking some combination of destroying Blackrazor as an offering, some and difficult to get material component to add to True Polymorph. Or maybe destroying Blackrazor in the depths of a volcano inhabited by a dracolich.....

Thank you all very much.

[Ganymede]

You can do some legit stuff in the Far Realm, including possibly granting a soul to a simulacrum. Just craft a soul from the aberrant energies within. What could go wrong?

[ATHATH]

Divine intervention (Cleric class feature, if not simple fiat) also works.

Cleric: 'Please Torm, let this woman be a real girl. Pinocchio the crap out of her!'
This reminds me more of Pygmalion, really.

EDIT: On second thought, this IS more like Pinoochio, since the simulacrum is/would be already sapient before the transformation.

[Connington]

So lets say you stumble upon the Simulacrum of a young elf woman and the Simulacrum reports her/its creator has died and it/she would like nothing more than to be a real person.

Short of a Wish spell, which is too common an answer, is their any way to do this?

Sure, that sounds like a quest to me. Maybe even a campaign!


I realize that's not the most helpful answer, but what you're describing is literally the plot hook for an adventure. Outside of Wish, or the Cleric's pseudowish Divine Intervention, there isn't a class feature or mechanical answer to this. Write whatever kind of story sounds cool!

[Maelynn]

If you don't mind blatant references, then you could travel to the Feywild and request a powerful fairy to help you. Maybe even one from the Seelie Court.

This fairy will then set a quest for the Simulacrum (be honest and good), probably allowing adventurers to aid and guide her (cricket style), and will grant the request once the quest has been fulfilled (become a real person).

You could even let the fairy 'trick' the Simulacrum by gving her a handicap, which will hinder her if she goes astray (growing nose).

[Sigreid]

Thinking out loud...

I really like these ideas. There are some wording issues with True Polymorph and a Simulacrum. Is a Simulacrum an "Object" for one and the creature you are turned into has to be CR9 or lower which might affect my particular instance since I didn't go into enough detail.

Hmmm, deal with a devil for a soul. I hadn't thought about that....or a deity I'll ad. Once again in my particular case the person the Simulacrum is a copy of may be dead by this time. ......the party will almost certainly know where Blackrazor is by this time, if they haven't decided to keep it for themselves....

I'm thinking some combination of destroying Blackrazor as an offering, some and difficult to get material component to add to True Polymorph. Or maybe destroying Blackrazor in the depths of a volcano inhabited by a dracolich.....

Thank you all very much.

My ruling would be that the simulacrum would count as a NPC or character of the CR or Level of the person they copied.

[Sudsboy]

It's gonna take a hell of a lot for an animated statue of snow and ice to actually become a real person

Professor Hinkle's hat should do the trick.

[NecessaryWeevil]

The contract isn't for the simulacrum's soul, of course; there's nothing there to give. Instead, in exchange for some service or loyalty, the devil gives her one of the souls its had simmering for a while.
Consequences ensue.

Oh, man...I want to play this character.

[Mercurias]

If the quest is about giving a soul to the Simulacrum, and the original person is dead, why not set out on a quest to retrieve the soul of the original and offer to bring it back to life merged with the memories and personality of the Simulacrum?

Alternately, you could step into some messy theological waters and either seek a way to MAKE a soul for this poor Simulacrum or find another willingness soul willing to link to it. Maybe use some sort of philactory. This might be a fun way to make a deal with a slightly lesser devil and look up the LinkedIn of the ancient Lich you keep hearing about.

[chando]

An archfey or really any warlock patron could justfy a character who was previosly a simulacrum, they gain new live/soul but tied to a contract. Maybe they can even change contractcs mid campagin, that would be neat. Historywise you could have to find the right demon/yoggoloth/Hag/witch/Effreti to grant you a soul. Or go get the soul of whatever you are a simulacrum of.

[Sigreid]

Take them to Barovia. Plenty of souls there with nothing to do.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Take them to Barovia. Plenty of souls there with nothing to do.

That's hilarious. I'm in a once a month campaign there right now. Floating in the mist they are.

On a side note, does a person really need a soul in D&D?

[Sigreid]

That's hilarious. I'm in a once a month campaign there right now. Floating in the mist they are.

On a side note, does a person really need a soul in D&D?

In AD&D only humans had souls. Demi humans and humanoids had spirits. Though I never really understood what the difference was supposed to be.

[Bohandas]

Is Incarnate Construct still a spell in 5e?

[JackPhoenix]

Take them to Barovia. Plenty of souls there with nothing to do.

Where? Most (90%) of the locals DON'T have souls. If anything, there's a serious soul shortage there.

[Sigreid]

Where? Most (90%) of the locals DON'T have souls. If anything, there's a serious soul shortage there.

I think any of the souls that are inhabiting bodies in Barovia count as not doing anything. :smallbiggrin:

Otherwise the mist is described as having spirits lost in it, and there's the skeleton on a horse looking for a way out random encounter. Edit: Oh, and the souls of all those adventurers that storm the castle every night.


Is Incarnate Construct still a spell in 5e?

I don't remember this spell, but I would let a wizard research Awaken Construct basing it off the druid's awaken spell.

[noob]

There's probably going to some trial of character though, having to prove themselves to be selfless, brave and true.

Or if you are asking an evil god the test will be about being powerful and serving the interests of the evil deity.
I think a simulacrum in 5e just have to go through a portal that brings it to another edition OOTS style to go to 3.5 where simulacrums while being still unable to progress are able to learn(So the simulacrum can now get new friends instead of not remembering the names of the people it meets) and so it is as good as being a real person.(most commoners are stuck as never progressing so you are in the same bag as them but how is it a problem?)

[Bohandas]

There's probably going to some trial of character though, having to prove themselves to be selfless, brave and true.

I'd go through an either more rogueish or more business-oriented deity then. "Prove yourself to be rich by bringing me 50000 gold pieces"

[Throne12]

My problem is if this simulacrum can think, talk and have emotions how does it not have a soul and why does it want to be a human. Also how is it doing anything with its creator dead.

[Malifice]

My problem is if this simulacrum can think, talk and have emotions how does it not have a soul and why does it want to be a human. Also how is it doing anything with its creator dead.

Ask Pinocchio. Or the kid from AI.

[Sigreid]

My problem is if this simulacrum can think, talk and have emotions how does it not have a soul and why does it want to be a human. Also how is it doing anything with its creator dead.

So it can learn and grow as a person? So it can hive it's own dreams to reach for?

[noob]

So it can learn and grow as a person? So it can hive it's own dreams to reach for?

Simulacrums probably have dreams but they can not remember them because they can not learn.
In fact simulacrums does not have object persistence since they can not learn.
All you need to be a person is the ability to learn.
The ability to progress is not really needed.
Anyway the simulacrum could not decide to go on that quest in the first place since it does not knows it can not learn since it can not learn it can not learn and it can not know it is a simulacrum because it can not learn.
A simulacrum can talk with people but it will not be able to learn what the other tells them so as soon as you get close to the end of a sentence the simulacrum can not understand because it could not learn the first half of the sentence.
In fact a simulacrum would be really bad at obeying orders if it was not for that clause: "It obeys your spoken commands, moving and acting in accordance with your wishes" so it moves and acts based on your wishes not on logic.
So if you wish your simulacrum to destroy the entire universe then turn into a potato then the simulacrum does so without any problem.
Without that clause simulacrums would not be able to do anything useful since it can not learn the orders you give to it and so if you ask him "guard this spot here for two days then come back to me" the simulacrum would stand here then since it could not learn your order it would then start doing whatever it wants(which is probably repeating acts the base person liked to do that does not needs learning such as checking endlessly its watch(since it does not have a watch it would try to check the watch then since it can not learn it does not have a watch it would try again and again forever)) and it would not come back to you two days later.

I think an usual simulacrum left without supervision of its creator would constantly worry about how they ended up here and wonder where it is since it can not learn where it is(unless it was left in the place where the subject of the spell was when the simulacrum was created in which case it might do the watch checking stuff or maybe check what hour it is by looking at the sky).

Simulacrums are not soulless since they are a copy of the creature and that they never say that the simulacrum do not have a soul.
So when you create a simulacrum you also create a soul that is trapped in never learning anything and probably stuck indefinitely(that is until it die of old age or melt) in wonderment about where it is.

So simulacrums are an infinite source of existential dread and not much more.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Simulacrums probably have dreams but they can not remember them because they can not learn.
In fact simulacrums does not have object persistence since they can not learn.
All you need to be a person is the ability to learn.
The ability to progress is not really needed.
Anyway the simulacrum could not decide to go on that quest in the first place since it does not knows it can not learn since it can not learn it can not learn and it can not know it is a simulacrum because it can not learn.
A simulacrum can talk with people but it will not be able to learn what the other tells them so as soon as you get close to the end of a sentence the simulacrum can not understand because it could not learn the first half of the sentence.
In fact a simulacrum would be really bad at obeying orders if it was not for that clause: "It obeys your spoken commands, moving and acting in accordance with your wishes" so it moves and acts based on your wishes not on logic.
So if you wish your simulacrum to destroy the entire universe then turn into a potato then the simulacrum does so without any problem.
Without that clause simulacrums would not be able to do anything useful since it can not learn the orders you give to it and so if you ask him "guard this spot here for two days then come back to me" the simulacrum would stand here then since it could not learn your order it would then start doing whatever it wants(which is probably repeating acts the base person liked to do that does not needs learning such as checking endlessly its watch(since it does not have a watch it would try to check the watch then since it can not learn it does not have a watch it would try again and again forever)) and it would not come back to you two days later.

I think an usual simulacrum left without supervision of its creator would constantly worry about how they ended up here and wonder where it is since it can not learn where it is(unless it was left in the place where the subject of the spell was when the simulacrum was created in which case it might do the watch checking stuff or maybe check what hour it is by looking at the sky).

Simulacrums are not soulless since they are a copy of the creature and that they never say that the simulacrum do not have a soul.
So when you create a simulacrum you also create a soul that is trapped in never learning anything and probably stuck indefinitely(that is until it die of old age or melt) in wonderment about where it is.

So simulacrums are an infinite source of existential dread and not much more.

I don't play Simulacrums so extreme they can't "learn" who is attacking them or "learn" which door is to the prison.

That said, I think you made me think of a good point. This Sim needs a reason or something that pushes her to become "a real person". Maybe the last order of her dying master. Maybe something the master said. Maybe an event in its life, so it can better guard the Wizard's kid its supposed to be guarding or something.

[Bohandas]

Simulacrums probably have dreams

Of electric sheep

[Bohandas]

What if you did a reverse Tinman on them and replaced all their parts with fleshy grafts

[noob]

Of electric sheep

Snow does not mix well with electricity so it would not be very nice dreams.

[Bohandas]

Apologies for late reply, but I just stumbled on an official answer to this question. Page 128 of "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk" details a scheme for a simulacrum to become real by compelling the services of a god