Character generation issues

[carrdrivesyou]

So my group swapped DMs and everyone is making new characters. The bad part is that I can't really seem to find a character concept that I like that I haven't done. There seems to be very limited options for party roles. You've got melee, ranged, caster, and skill monkey. Mechanically, there's almost no difference in classes and subclasses that satisfies me enough to make things interesting. Should I just bow out of the game?

[PhoenixPhyre]

So my group swapped DMs and everyone is making new characters. The bad part is that I can't really seem to find a character concept that I like that I haven't done. There seems to be very limited options for party roles. You've got melee, ranged, caster, and skill monkey. Mechanically, there's almost no difference in classes and subclasses that satisfies me enough to make things interesting. Should I just bow out of the game?

Try approaching it from the opposite side. Come up with a race and background and personality, then fit the mechanics to it. Try focusing more on the character side than the mechanics side.

[carrdrivesyou]

I've tried that. It's still doesn't work. There just isn't a mechanic for what I'm aiming to build. Backgrounds and such offer good flavor, but very little in the way of mechanics...think I'm just gonna go back to Pathfinder

[rahimka]

Try focusing more on the character side than the mechanics side.

This is great advice.

OP, while there are many many mechanical options, you aren't wrong that after a while they can start to feel like the same roles achieved in slightly (or widely) differing ways. The real variety comes from the personality you bring to the character. Two identically built Rogues can both fill the melee/skill monkey party role, but the CN mercenary and the LG folk hero are going to FEEL and PLAY very differently. I love optimizing and min-maxing (part of why I loved Pathfinder and resisted 5e until last year), but the real JOY I get from this game came when I learned to embrace the roleplaying at the same time. Maybe its time to lean into that aspect of the game for a while.

[Aett_Thorn]

Well what are you aiming to build? That might help us help you find a way to make it within 5e.

[fbelanger]

Try out a champion fighter.
Choose military background.
Play the kind of guys who loose all illusion over the army, the society and life.
He get drunk as soon as you can.
He Make bad tactical choice, get angry and unprevesible.
Get off role, try be be a character.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I've tried that. It's still doesn't work. There just isn't a mechanic for what I'm aiming to build. Backgrounds and such offer good flavor, but very little in the way of mechanics...think I'm just gonna go back to Pathfinder

But you're still focusing on mechanics. And yes, 5e isn't that broad in discrete mechanics. By design. It's supposed to focus on actual characters with personalities from which the mechanics flow (or are less important). If what you're looking for is mechanical bits to play with, then yes, PF is probably better for you.

For me, personally, PF felt really hollow. I could make these fantastic structures (with lots and lots of fiddly work), but there was no soul. They were carefully balanced houses of cards, everything chosen for mechanical effect without character rhyme or reason. And if you used the character as a basis, you ended up mechanically anti-optimized to the point of unuseable characters. And most of the different mechanics felt exactly the same because there were 2 good pieces and thousands of pieces of trash that were actually counterproductive. Most of the "fancy mechanics" boiled down to +1 to that or -1 to the other. They didn't amount to actual new capabilities without significant investment (or spells, which all feel the same anyway).

5e lets me pick things based on what the character has done/experienced and still come out OK in all but the most combat-focused groups.

But YMMV.

[Unoriginal]

I've tried that. It's still doesn't work. There just isn't a mechanic for what I'm aiming to build. Backgrounds and such offer good flavor, but very little in the way of mechanics...think I'm just gonna go back to Pathfinder

WHAT are you trying to build?

Yes, you might be better off playing Pathfinder, but unless you actually tell us what you want we can't help you.

[CTurbo]

So my group swapped DMs and everyone is making new characters. The bad part is that I can't really seem to find a character concept that I like that I haven't done. There seems to be very limited options for party roles. You've got melee, ranged, caster, and skill monkey. Mechanically, there's almost no difference in classes and subclasses that satisfies me enough to make things interesting. Should I just bow out of the game?


Wow this is the total opposite problem that I have. For me, I'll build a dozen characters and then it's really hard for me to narrow them down and choose one.

Play something you never played before?
Play a variation of your favorite character from the past?
Play a purposely unoptimized(but still viable) character. (think Dex Barb, Str Rgue, or GWM War Cleric)
Play a Beastmaster Ranger!
Play a wild mutliclass combo.
Write down the 12 classes in alphabetical order, roll a d12 and choose your class that way. Then write down all the approved races, add them up, and roll a 1d? and choose your race that way.

[RipTide]

As others have asked what is it you want to build? I have so far not been able to come up with a character consent that I cant build out using 5e, and I make a lot of characters.

A big advantage for 5e is also that it encourages you to refluff things to be what you want, where as Pathfinder has everything stated out separately. For example I'm playing in a game right now where one of the players wanted to play essentially Gambit form X-men, hes a warlock with eldritch blast refluffed to be exploding cards.

Also there is a lot you can add to a character with pure story, we have a Cleric/Barbarian that is possessed by a demon and treats his rages like the demon taking over or my character is a Changeling assassin that shows up as a different person each session.

And that's all without getting into any of the really good home brew out there or even the UA material put out by wizards, like one game we have a gnome that is essentially iron man because of an artificer subclass somebody home brewed.

Another big factor to consider is that one of the advantages of pathfinder is you can really specialize mechanically, the disadvantage is that you need to specialize to stay relevant. 5e really doesn't need that, so if you have a crazy idea that needs 4 different classes combined to work, go for it you will never be useless, because aside from extra attack and unarmored defense there aren't really many redundancy's between class abilities. 5e allows for so much flexibility with character building because fully optimized builds aren't really that broken and completely unoptimized builds can still be really good.

So it all comes down to what do you want to build? I am sure there is a way to make it in 5e.

[carrdrivesyou]

It just seems that you have so very few options. You can attack with a weapon, cast a spell, or use a skill/ability. Every classes abilities are mostly different ways of saying the same thing. Example: Druid of Dreams and Celestial Warlock have literally the same healing ability, but it is just labeled as a different thing. It is difficult to put a party together and have different characters. They just feel like carbon copies, and makes me feel like my character is no longer unique. Despite personality/background differences, there just isn't enough variety yet in this edition to do it for me. It's a good system, but I think I've exhausted what it offers for now. I might come back to it when they release a few more classes. And I mean actual classes, not subclasses. I'm not fond of those. With any luck, they'll introduce the Artificer, the Alchemist, an ACTUAL necromancer, a finished Mystic (NOT the Psion), and the Dragon Shaman. Here's to hoping ladies and gents.

[RipTide]

What actions are there in pathfinder that do not fall into the swing weapon, cast spell, use skill/ability categories? Cause those are all very broad and cover petty much anything anybody has ever done...

[Particle_Man]

Be a warlock. They have invocations which are not spells, not weapons and not skills and are mechanically different. Maybe pick Dragonborn for a breath weapon (kinda different).

[carrdrivesyou]

Be a warlock. They have invocations which are not spells, not weapons and not skills and are mechanically different. Maybe pick Dragonborn for a breath weapon (kinda different).

I've done this. Three times, actually. One was pact of the raven queen (kenku actually), second was a fiendlock dragonborn that liked to blast, third was a celestial pact half-elf that ran his own mercenary company. Warlock is one of my favorites of this edition, but even then, it really doesn't offer enough. I've also played a diviner wizard, a cleric of light, a zealot barbarian, an immortal mystic, a tabaxi rogue, human paladin, and a few others in one shot games. About the only classes I haven't messed with are druid and ranger. They just don't appeal to me at all.

In general, I think that 5e's subclass system is a bad fit for me. I think that I like a bit more mechanics to my games. I adored the mystic, but then it got ripped apart and scrapped into subclasses and a single upcoming class called the "psion." 5e just seems to be taking towards a direction I don't care for. It's a great system overall that has people flocking in droves to DnD as a whole, but as it is currently, it just doesn't suit me.

And to answer the questions above about what I was trying to build, I was trying to build a character that focused on auras that wasn't a paladin. I was looking for a shaman/witch doctor vibe, and nothing really fills that niche. I realize that I can "flavor" things how I like, but you can only go so far without matching mechanics. DMs Guild and Dawnforged Cast have EXCELLENT class buildups and expansions, but they aren't official content, and therefore not allowed at the tables available to me. I hope that 5e serves its players and DMs well, and that it proves to be the introduction for many into the wonderful world of D&D. I just hope those new players jump systems soon. :D

[Man_Over_Game]

About the only classes I haven't messed with are druid and ranger. They just don't appeal to me at all.

[...]

And to answer the questions above about what I was trying to build, I was trying to build a character that focused on auras that wasn't a paladin.


Spirit Totem

Starting at 2nd level, as a bonus action, you can magically summon an incorporeal spirit to a point you can see within 60 feet of you. The spirit creates an aura in a 30-foot radius around that point. It counts as neither a creature nor an object, though it has the spectral appearance of the creature it represents.

As a bonus action, you can move the spirit up to 60 feet to a point you can see.

The spirit persists for 1 minute or until you're incapacitated. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a short or long rest.

The effect of the spirit's aura depends on the type of spirit you summon from the options below.
◾Bear Spirit: Each creature of your choice in the aura when the spirit appears each gain temporary hit points equal to 5 + your druid level. In addition, you and your allies gain advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws while in the aura.
◾Hawk Spirit: When a creature makes an attack roll against a target in the spirit's aura, you can use your reaction to grant advantage to that attack roll. In addition, you and your allies have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks while in the aura.
◾Unicorn Spirit: You and your allies gain advantage on all ability checks made to detect creatures in the spirit's aura. In addition, if you cast a spell with a spell slot that restores hit points to anyone inside or outside the aura, each creature of your choice in the aura also regains hit points equal to your druid level.

Mighty Summoner

At 6th level, any beast or fey summoned or created by your spells gains the following benefits:
◾Its hit point maximum increases by 2 per Hit Die.
◾The damage from its natural weapons is considered magical for the purpose of overcoming immunity and resistance to nonmagical attacks and damage.

Guardian Spirit

Beginning at 10th level, when a beast or fey that you summoned or created with a spell ends its turn in your Spirit Totem aura, that creature regains a number of hit points equal to half your druid level.


This is actually kinda frustrating. Are you sure you couldn't just...reflavor the Druid into something you could enjoy? A hunter, a crazy prophet, or a journalist?

[DMThac0]

You're asking to do something unique yet you hold on to the argument that everything is the same, seems you've walked in waiting to leave.

I've been at this game, D&D, for almost 33 years. I've played 4 versions of this system, Basic, AD&D, 3.x, and 5th, seems I don't like even number editions lol. I've played every race/class/subclass option in the books available to me. I've DMed far longer than I've played. There isn't a drop of surprise left in the written material left for me. Yet, when I do get the chance to play, I relish it, I create a character, and I make my DM want to throttle me by the 3rd session.

You're right, there's nothing mechanically special about the classes, that's on purpose. For a game to work, one that requires the players to win, there has to be synergy. Cross over skills and mechanics make that a reality, and a necessity. Why complain about it, by now, according to you, you should have realized it ages ago. You've done everything but Druid and ranger right? So muscle up and play one, or fluff your character to fit this aura build idea of yours. Maybe, and this is a difficult task, you could sit down and homebrew a class with your DM?

If you're done with the mechanics side of the game then play for the story, the character arc, and the time hanging with friends. I built sub-par wizards that don't cast any damage spells. I built a fighter that was so lazy he made the rest of the party do his dirty work while he "made sure this path was safe" and hid. I made a barbarian who spent more time building his fan following as a gladiator than he did completing the quests he was assigned. I played a character, not a dice rolling machine.

If you're not willing to put in that kind of effort then, unfortunately, it'll be time to wander off like you said.

[RipTide]

Man_Over_Game has it right there. It is super easy to fluff that as exactly what you want. It has a totem and druid has plenty of buff and debuff spells you can throw out to act as "curses". Don't like wild shape? Don't use it it has far fewer uses for non moon druids anyway. Any summons are spirits coming to your aid.

Druid doesn't need to mean nature, refluf as you see fit.

[VonKaiserstein]

I must confess I sympathize with this point of view. The overall number of classes is very low in DnD 5e, and that is a big adjustment for medium school gamers. Old schoolers can remember the days when your class was Dwarf... and new school gamers don't remember anything different. Medium schoolers grew up in the wild days of the d20 Open license, when you had a class for Left handed combat pasta chefs, and right handed saucerors.

I've noticed that after 3rd level, I no longer think of any characters as their base class, and I treat the levels pre-specialization as your chance to try out the character before you decide on your class.

With that perspective, we go from a thin 12 classes to well over 50- I'm not going to take the time to number every subclass, I'm sure there are far more.

I don't know if that would help you or not, but you could just build a character at 3rd, and call it whatever the subclass is as the primary class.

[Ganymede]

Think of another story you want to tell.

What stories have you told before with your characters?

[Waterdeep Merch]

There are 82 officially published subclasses now (I think, unless I'm forgetting a source) and 35 races. A lot of these, though certainly not all, can dramatically change the nature of your class. You can multiclass, too, for some very interesting combinations, theoretically putting these numbers into the thousands. And while some of these easily combo into each other far better, 5e's loose enough to find ways to make almost any of them function (Barbarian/Any Caster jumps out as the one way to definitely screw up, but I'm having trouble thinking of another multiclass that a clever player can't make work).

I start with a basic role, like you do. Then I think of all the obvious ways I could fulfill it, like you've done. When one doesn't jump out to me as fun, I look at how I can jury rig something weird to make it work. I haven't run out of ideas yet.

[Vogie]

If you're not in AL, then it's time to try your hand at light Homebrew. Take the Paladin Frame, and make a different Aura based class around that design skeleton.

If you're looking for non-paladin auras, try PygmyBatRider's Shaman class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?571718-PBR-s-Consolidated-Homebrew-Thread) (link to his homebrew signature, it's at the bottom), based on the aura-generating, totem-toting WoW class. That class won one of our design contests a while back.

[Sahe]

Here's an idea:

Race: whatever you like
Background: I like Urchin for this, Criminal would also work I guess.
Class: Wizard

You are a scrappy streetkid who stole a wizards spellbook and learned magic from it to escape poverty and go adventuring.

Ok, so far this is only a backstory as any other, that gives a nice possible hook for the DM to use (the wizard who's spellbook you stole) BUT we can take it a step further in that you don't select any of your spells but instead number your Wizard Spells (and cantrips) and instead of picking your spells you roll for them, cause you stole a full spellbook and those are the spells that were already in there.

You can also randomly roll for your Subclass and once you have that can roll for one Subclass and one random Spell each level up.

Go one step further by not using and Arcane Focus and go dumpster diving for Material Components.

I play a character like this and she is by far my favorite character. It creates uncertainty when you level up and you may find yourself using spells you never used before.

[djreynolds]

Strength based ranger.
It is very good.

Trophy hunter type.
Dual wield type. Versatile weapons. Thrown weapons also. Long sword and dagger, battle axe and light hammer, any weapon combo.

Hunter is fine. Really. Forget hunters mark, use hail of thorns with a hand axe. Lightning arrow can be used with any ranged attack, doesn't have to be a bow.

[CTurbo]

Have you played a grappling character? A Barbarian that focuses on grappling instead of DPR is a lot of fun. I think an Aarakocra Barbarian that grapples and flies off with the enemy would be a lot of fun too.

[Mercurias]

Okay man have fun doing your thing. Hope you find something out there that satisfies you.