Jowgen
2019-01-09, 04:38 PM
So Shadow Casters suck, but some of their Mysteries are quite neat. While skimming over the class I began to wonder if there might be a way for other classes to access them.
Mysteries function as spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities, depending on the category of the path and the knowledge of the mystery user [...] When you are capable of casting only apprentice mysteries, you cast them as though they were arcane spells
So mysteries aren't spells (which I believe precludes access via advanced learning), but they do function as arcane spells under certain conditions, which might open up some loopholes.
My first thought on this is the use of Knowstones.
A knowstone provides its bearer with knowledge of the inscribed spell, which he can then use his spell slots to cast normally (as if the inscribed spell were among his known spells). The knowstone’s bearer need not make any conscious decision to use the knowstone apart from deciding to cast the inscribed spell. (This is considered part of the spellcasting action.) Any spontaneous caster can use a knowstone, provided that the spell it includes is on his spell list and he can cast spells of its level. [...] You can create a knowstone for any spell you know.
So a Shadowcaster who casts a given mystery as a spell, can be argued to therefore know it as a spell, meaning they should be able to make a Knowstone of it. As a result, the Mystery is now contained as a Spell within the knowstone. In the absence of a Shadowcaster (e.g. because natural selection caused their extinction), 11th level Warlocks and Midgard Dwarves can make these as well.
Now the issue is that there are no classes that have mysteries on their spell-list (not even shadowcasters). This would render this knowstone utterly pointless, but I believe the UMD serves as a way around this. While the 3.5 description of the skill only mentions Emulating Class features, which arguably wouldn't be sufficient by itself, the more expansive 3e version had the Emulate Spell Ability:
This use of the skill allows you to use a magic item as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. [...] By using the skill this way, you can use such an item as if you did have the spell on your class spell list. Your effective caster level is your result minus 20. (It's okay to have a caster level of 0.)
Per my understanding, 3e skill uses are still legal in 3.5 if they weren't explicitly replaced/removed, so it should allow us to emulate having the Spell "Mystery-whatever" on our spell-list with a UMD check of 20.
So we now as a result have a mystery as an arcane spell known, and since it comes with a built in spell level, there should be no issue with casting this known spell using one's own classes spell slots. Hence providing a means for mysteries to be part of the magical collective even in a world where Shadowcasters don't exist
So, what are people's thoughts on this?
How would you rate it on the "DM-fiat to RAW-legal" scale, as well as the "Munchkin-cheese to perfectly PO" gradient?
Can you think of any other way to get Mysteries on a non-shadowcaster?
Mysteries function as spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities, depending on the category of the path and the knowledge of the mystery user [...] When you are capable of casting only apprentice mysteries, you cast them as though they were arcane spells
So mysteries aren't spells (which I believe precludes access via advanced learning), but they do function as arcane spells under certain conditions, which might open up some loopholes.
My first thought on this is the use of Knowstones.
A knowstone provides its bearer with knowledge of the inscribed spell, which he can then use his spell slots to cast normally (as if the inscribed spell were among his known spells). The knowstone’s bearer need not make any conscious decision to use the knowstone apart from deciding to cast the inscribed spell. (This is considered part of the spellcasting action.) Any spontaneous caster can use a knowstone, provided that the spell it includes is on his spell list and he can cast spells of its level. [...] You can create a knowstone for any spell you know.
So a Shadowcaster who casts a given mystery as a spell, can be argued to therefore know it as a spell, meaning they should be able to make a Knowstone of it. As a result, the Mystery is now contained as a Spell within the knowstone. In the absence of a Shadowcaster (e.g. because natural selection caused their extinction), 11th level Warlocks and Midgard Dwarves can make these as well.
Now the issue is that there are no classes that have mysteries on their spell-list (not even shadowcasters). This would render this knowstone utterly pointless, but I believe the UMD serves as a way around this. While the 3.5 description of the skill only mentions Emulating Class features, which arguably wouldn't be sufficient by itself, the more expansive 3e version had the Emulate Spell Ability:
This use of the skill allows you to use a magic item as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. [...] By using the skill this way, you can use such an item as if you did have the spell on your class spell list. Your effective caster level is your result minus 20. (It's okay to have a caster level of 0.)
Per my understanding, 3e skill uses are still legal in 3.5 if they weren't explicitly replaced/removed, so it should allow us to emulate having the Spell "Mystery-whatever" on our spell-list with a UMD check of 20.
So we now as a result have a mystery as an arcane spell known, and since it comes with a built in spell level, there should be no issue with casting this known spell using one's own classes spell slots. Hence providing a means for mysteries to be part of the magical collective even in a world where Shadowcasters don't exist
So, what are people's thoughts on this?
How would you rate it on the "DM-fiat to RAW-legal" scale, as well as the "Munchkin-cheese to perfectly PO" gradient?
Can you think of any other way to get Mysteries on a non-shadowcaster?