Advice for Open Hand Monk 11 - Revised Ranger 2

[cjcaesar]

I had a variant human open hand monk 11 character and to increase my damage output I dipped 2 levels in Revised ranger of UA.
Now at level 2 ranger I have to choose the fighting style and 2 known spell, I opted for Dueling fighting style to have +2 damage in two attacks per round with my javelin and for the spell obviously hunter's mark and… which other spell?
Absorb elements seems to be a solid choice but I have a ring of evasion and the evasion feature of the monk and Absorb elements would be redundant; also I have the Mobile feat and a total movement of 60 feet so spells like longstrider or zephyr strike seems redundant too.
So which spell may I take?

Other question: is Dueling the best choice for the fighting style?
+2 damage x 2 javelin attacks is 4 dmg/rnd but I'm evaluating Archery instead to have a decent ranged option with 2 shortbow attacks made at +2 to attack roll supported by hunter's mark and maybe Hail of thorns?
I know I have 60 movement and the ability to run on water and vertical wall but there are situation when you can't reach the enemy; could Archery be a good investment?

[Man_Over_Game]

I had a variant human open hand monk 11 character and to increase my damage output I dipped 2 levels in Revised ranger of UA.
Now at level 2 ranger I have to choose the fighting style and 2 known spell, I opted for Dueling fighting style to have +2 damage in two attacks per round with my javelin and for the spell obviously hunter's mark and… which other spell?
Absorb elements seems to be a solid choice but I have a ring of evasion and the evasion feature of the monk and Absorb elements would be redundant; also I have the Mobile feat and a total movement of 60 feet so spells like longstrider or zephyr strike seems redundant too.
So which spell may I take?

Other question: is Dueling the best choice for the fighting style?
+2 damage x 2 javelin attacks is 4 dmg/rnd but I'm evaluating Archery instead to have a decent ranged option with 2 shortbow attacks made at +2 to attack roll supported by hunter's mark and maybe Hail of thorns?
I know I have 60 movement and the ability to run on water and vertical wall but there are situation when you can't reach the enemy; could Archery be a good investment?

With increased jump distance, running on walls, and increased mobility, there's not much that can run from a Monk, so I wouldn't worry too much about mobile enemies.

My recommendation is Absorb Elements. Even if it's a bit redundant with Dexterity Saving Throws, there's always the chance that you'll fail the Dexterity Saving Throw, or you'll be afflicted by another source (like a Thunder-based Constitution saving throw). Specifically, Evasion is only applied if your Dexterity Saving Throw succeeds, where Absorb Elements works in almost any other situation, so I'd say that's the best choice.

Alternatively, if your team has a lack of means of dealing with flying combatants, consider grabbing Jump. When combined with Step of the Wind, there's no rule stating how the multiplication is applied, so common sense would dictate that it's tripled THEN doubled for x6 jump distance, translating to a roughly 18 foot high jump.

[Palfatreos]

Ensnaring Strike: if they fail str check it Restrained +1d6 damage while in the condition work melee or ranged handy to catch those nimbly speedy basterds.

As for fighting style i prolly opt for defense seems your character versityle your dueling onl work on javelin attack the archery only on the bow and neiher works on your unarmed attacks. However if your prefer offensive i would say pick whichever weapon used most if equally ranged prolly handier for the nasty high ac enemies.

[Citan]

I had a variant human open hand monk 11 character and to increase my damage output I dipped 2 levels in Revised ranger of UA.
Now at level 2 ranger I have to choose the fighting style and 2 known spell, I opted for Dueling fighting style to have +2 damage in two attacks per round with my javelin and for the spell obviously hunter's mark and… which other spell?
Absorb elements seems to be a solid choice but I have a ring of evasion and the evasion feature of the monk and Absorb elements would be redundant; also I have the Mobile feat and a total movement of 60 feet so spells like longstrider or zephyr strike seems redundant too.
So which spell may I take?

Other question: is Dueling the best choice for the fighting style?
+2 damage x 2 javelin attacks is 4 dmg/rnd but I'm evaluating Archery instead to have a decent ranged option with 2 shortbow attacks made at +2 to attack roll supported by hunter's mark and maybe Hail of thorns?
I know I have 60 movement and the ability to run on water and vertical wall but there are situation when you can't reach the enemy; could Archery be a good investment?
Hi!

Spell: I'd heavily recommend Zephyr's Strike: it also eats concentration so it competes with Hunter's Mark, but that further bit of extra speed and the complete avoiding of opportunity attacks works wonder on a Monk's high mobility and (usually) high-value target striker role.

Style: I'd definitely go Archery honestly, because I'm biaised towards versatility and I don't think +4 per round still makes any decisive difference at the level you play at now. Still, it's certainly not a bad choice...

[CTurbo]

Archery vs Dueling is a tossup on a Monk. Dueling is a reliable +4 damage per turn, but Archery is extremely helpful when you do need it. Flip a coin.

To whoever said he should take Defense, he doesn't qualify since Defense requires armor to work.

I'd go with Ensnaring Strike if you choose Dueling or Hail of Thorns if you choose Archery.



Were you planning on taking a 3rd level of Ranger? I would. Both Gloom Stalker and Hunter are great for Monks. Horde Breaker fits the Monk's play style, and Colossus Slayer is effective if not boring.

[cjcaesar]

My recommendation is Absorb Elements. Even if it's a bit redundant with Dexterity Saving Throws, there's always the chance that you'll fail the Dexterity Saving Throw, or you'll be afflicted by another source (like a Thunder-based Constitution saving throw). Specifically, Evasion is only applied if your Dexterity Saving Throw succeeds, where Absorb Elements works in almost any other situation, so I'd say that's the best choice..

I didn't evaluate other forms of elemental damage apart from that of a failed dex save and if, for whatever reason, I lose my ring of evasion I can count only on evasion feature; for this reason I think Absorb elements could be the best choice.



Style: I'd definitely go Archery honestly, because I'm biaised towards versatility and I don't think +4 per round still makes any decisive difference at the level you play at now. Still, it's certainly not a bad choice...

That was my thinking also; yes I'll do only two shortbow attacks, but my hunter's mark will improve the damage.

A side note for HM is that using it in melee with my monk is a bit complicated because in the first round of combat I can't activate it if I win initiative (i have advantage thanks to Natural explorer and +5 dex so I win often) and If I use the bonus action to cast HM I lose 2 attacks of my flurry that I do with advantage thanks to the other Natural explorer bonus

On your first turn during combat, you have advantage on attack rolls against creatures that have not yet acted.
So first turn of combat 4 attacks with advantage; from the second round I cast HM only if the battle is with tough monster/s because every time I kill one I have to use the bonus action to redirect HM losing my single bonus action unarmed attack (2 if I flurry)
With the shortbow I don't have much to do that compete with my bonus action so I can use HM in a more effectively way.


Were you planning on taking a 3rd level of Ranger? I would. Both Gloom Stalker and Hunter are great for Monks. Horde Breaker fits the Monk's play style, and Colossus Slayer is effective if not boring.

I'm thinking this and I love the Gloom Stalker features:
- WIS mod to initiative combined to Natural explorer advantage make my monk "unbeatable"on initiative and so all my attacks of the first round are with advantage including...
- ... the additional (fifth) attack of the Gloom stalker at +1d8 damage
- The Darkvision is perfect for my variant human and combined with my stealth skill give me more opportunity for scouting

On the other hand if I take the 3rd level of ranger I lose the Empty body feature of the monk and apart from that, when I'm supposed to take that 3rd level? The next monk steps are:

12 ASI (+2 DEX to 20)
13 Tongue of the sun and moon <<<<< Meh!
14 Diamond soul (proficiency to all saves)
15 Timeless body <<<<< Meh! but flavorful
16 ASI (+2 WIS to 20)
17 Quivering palm (snap finger in Hokuto no ken way)
18 Empty body (not if I go Gloom stalker)

[djreynolds]

First, thanks for taking the mobile feat, it really is awesome.

2 spells is a real tough dilemma
Fog cloud isn't bad at all, with your speed you could really harass the enemy by setting this in the eye line of enemy archers and casters.
Good berry.. It's healing.
Hail of thorns can work with a bow or dagger, all ranged attacks
But absorb elements might be the best, as it's a reaction that could save your life.
You may not always pass your dex save at higher levels, this will at least half the damage and evasion should half it again, AFB

Archery style could be a huge boon, when needed. But dueling is still strong.

My advice, wait. Do not take this 2nd level of ranger right NOW. Wait.

It's not worth delaying stuff for hunters mark.

It's not worth darkvision, which you won't get til 3rd level if taken.

You are really only gaining 2 hours a day of hunters mark.

So wait.

Also, do you really need your ring if evasion? Probably, not. I might trade that with a party member who could really need it. The party's fat cleric comes to mind.

Your delaying diamond soul. 3 more levels

Quivering palm is 17th level, you would like to use it? Forget dipping. Grab magic initiate for hex

[cjcaesar]

Well, I've already taken that second ranger level and I will definitely take Absorb elements as my second spell.

I'll delay the fighting style selection another couple of days, and I think to have some sessions to decide whether to take Gloom stalker or not.

The ring of evasion wasn't a random treasure, the DM give me that ring and while is legal to give it to another pc, I don't want to mingle with item specifically given by a DM.

[Misterwhisper]

First, thanks for taking the mobile feat, it really is awesome.

2 spells is a real tough dilemma
Fog cloud isn't bad at all, with your speed you could really harass the enemy by setting this in the eye line of enemy archers and casters.
Good berry.. It's healing.
Hail of thorns can work with a bow or dagger, all ranged attacks
But absorb elements might be the best, as it's a reaction that could save your life.
You may not always pass your dex save at higher levels, this will at least half the damage and evasion should half it again, AFB

Archery style could be a huge boon, when needed. But dueling is still strong.

My advice, wait. Do not take this 2nd level of ranger right NOW. Wait.

It's not worth delaying stuff for hunters mark.

It's not worth darkvision, which you won't get til 3rd level if taken.

You are really only gaining 2 hours a day of hunters mark.

So wait.

Also, do you really need your ring if evasion? Probably, not. I might trade that with a party member who could really need it. The party's fat cleric comes to mind.

Your delaying diamond soul. 3 more levels

Quivering palm is 17th level, you would like to use it? Forget dipping. Grab magic initiate for hex

Hail of Thorns is "ranged weapon attack" not "ranged attack" So no help on javelins or daggers.

[Man_Over_Game]

Hail of Thorns is "ranged weapon attack" not "ranged attack" So no help on javelins or daggers.

A thrown javelin/dagger is a "Ranged Weapon Attack" made with a melee weapon.

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"Ranged Weapon Attack" is the same thing as a Non-melee Non-magic attack.

There's an inherent difference between "An attack with a weapon" and "Weapon Attack", in that "An attack with a weapon" (such as with Rogue) actually requires a tool, and a "Weapon Attack" is literally any attack who's damage comes from mundane contact.

On the flipside, an "Attack with a melee weapon" is not the same as "Melee Attack". "Melee Attack" is strictly an attack on one creature to another with a swing, a stab, where you control the full motion of a weapon. A "Ranged Weapon" is also different from a "Ranged Attack", as a "Ranged Attack" is when the attack is made as a projectile, something launched and is separate from the body.


A few cases where this is relevant:

The Archery feature adds +2 damage to attacks made with ranged weapons. This applies to Darts (which are thrown ranged weapons), but not Javelins (which are thrown melee weapons). They both make Ranged Attacks, though, and are both applicable with something like Hail of Thorns.

The Dueling feature adds +2 damage to melee weapons when wielded with one hand and you have no other weapons in your other hand. This applies to all weapons of the melee category (Javelins, Axes, Swords) whether or not they're thrown.

You can technically even throw something at someone who's adjacent to you. You can wield a Javelin (a melee weapon) and throw it at someone who's within 5 feet of you, and impose disadvantage on the attack due to making a Ranged Attack when an enemy is adjacent to you.

------------

They made an unfortunate choice by stating that attacks are defined as Ranged and Melee, while having weapons be categorized as Ranged and Melee, and having both definitions (Weapon type and Attack type) be completely unrelated.

An easy way to think about it is to translate it into this:

Melee Attack: Striking Attack.
Ranged Attack: Projectile Attack.
Spell Attack: Energy Attack.
Weapon Attack: Physical Attack.

Thus, Shocking Grasp (Melee Spell Attack) would be a Striking Energy Attack.
A thrown Javelin (Ranged Weapon Attack) would be a Projectile Physical Attack, which is the same as a shot fired from a bow.
A handheld Javelin (Melee Weapon Attack) would be a Striking Physical Attack, which is the same as slashing with a sword.

[PeteNutButter]

I’d definitely take dueling FS. That’s like a 21% damage boost when you cast hunters mark or a 10.5% damage boost when you flurry.

As for archery’s. You’re fast, like really fast. If you can’t get into melee things are probably flying. You’re ranged attacks are ok but I wouldn’t pass on a 10-20% damage boost for something that you use relatively rarely.

[djreynolds]

Hail of Thorns is "ranged weapon attack" not "ranged attack" So no help on javelins or daggers.

You know you could be correct.

Conjure barrage and volley are conjuration spells that include the weapon or ammunition in the spell components and in the text

Lightning arrow is transmutation, and includes text, but nothing in spell components.

Hail of thorns may only mean arrows, bolts, and maybe darts (thinking of druids here). Or it's serious misprint on the 5E staff.

Definitely needs to be sageadviced

[cjcaesar]

Man_Over_Game is correct about all his statements, this is why I use a Javelin with my monk:

- Javelin is a monk weapon so the damage dice scales whether I use it in melee or ranged and I can apply my dex bonus in melee or ranged;
- Javelin is a melee weapon so Dueling applies to it even when I throw it, as states a sage advice of Crawford that I cannot link because I don't have 10 active post :smallfurious:
- Stunning Strike apply to the attacks I made with a javelin but only when I use it in melee;
- Archery fighting style doesn't apply to javelin when I throw it because Archery apply to attack rolls made with ranged weapons not ranged weapon attack;
- Hail of Thorns (that I didn't take) apply to Javelin when you throw it because the spell states "ranged weapon attacks".

Definitily I'll go with Dueling fighting style

[Man_Over_Game]

Man_Over_Game is correct about all his statements, this is why I use a Javelin with my monk:

- Javelin is a monk weapon so the damage dice scales whether I use it in melee or ranged and I can apply my dex bonus in melee or ranged;
- Javelin is a melee weapon so Dueling applies to it even when I throw it, as states a sage advice of Crawford that I cannot link because I don't have 10 active post :smallfurious:
- Stunning Strike apply to the attacks I made with a javelin but only when I use it in melee;
- Archery fighting style doesn't apply to javelin when I throw it because Archery apply to attack rolls made with ranged weapons not ranged weapon attack;
- Hail of Thorns (that I didn't take) apply to Javelin when you throw it because the spell states "ranged weapon attacks".

Definitily I'll go with Dueling fighting style

Heh, didn't even think to consider throwing weapons as Dexterity Monk weapons. Good find!