Ranking Durkon's other choices for marriage within the party

[goodyarn]

So, if Belkar is Durkon's 4th choice for marriage in the party, who are his other choices?

And are we counting the cat and the bird as members of the party? Durkon says "Eh the cat's probably fine" when asked in strip #1132 if everyone in the group has weird emotional issues.

I'll go with:

1. Hailey
2. Roy
3. The Cat
4. Belkar
5. Elan
6. V
7. The Bird

Not that I think Durkon hates V. I just think on a primal level he'd have a hard time getting with folk who hang around trees a lot, like birds and elves.

[Caerulea]

Did you mean to write Belkar where you wrote Durkin? I presume he hasn't cloned himself (unless I am really misssing something).

[goodyarn]

Did you mean to write Belkar where you wrote Durkin? I presume he hasn't cloned himself (unless I am really misssing something).

Naw, typo. Fixed it. Didn't get a lot of sleep last night.

[Verappo]

I feel like Roy would be, without a doubt, the first choice. He's the one Durkon spent more time with and they grew to be each others' friends and confidantes (cue Golden Girls theme). And we know from this book that Durkon knows about Eric's death, one of Roy's deepest, most character-defining moments.

After that things get harder to define. From what I can tell from his interactions with Haley and Elan, Durkon plays more of a parental role. He's their rock, but that's not something that I think he'd find very appealing in a partner, having to take care of their emotional states at all times (nor do I think he'd be very good at giving advice that isn't summed up with "suck it up", although I believe he'll have to get better at that).

That leaves Vaarsuvius, who is maybe more of a peer to Durkon, but also had the most negative of interactions with him. They haven't really interacted much after V's deal (what with him being dead and all), but if V can stick with their character development I think they'd be a better match than Elan or Haley. And hey, we know now that Durkon isn't opposed to helping people "work through their demons". Maybe with V that could be wanted.

[opus]

Yeah I don't realy care who was ahead of belkar, but i have to know who was lower on the list than him.

of course it may take 100 issues to get to that.

[Potato_Priest]

My (and several other people's) analysis from the comic thread is that it goes

1. Roy (alignment and personality similarities, very responsible)
2. Haley (female, which Durkon likes, but more importantly responsible family member, chaotic criminal backgound a minus)
3. Elan (Good aligned but annoying and irresponsible)
4. Belkar (explicitly listed as #4, evil, irresponsible)
5. Vaarsuvius (not good, not responsible for existing family so more certainty here than even Belkar)

Also, marrying an animal would be an affront to the honorable traditions of both humans and dwarves!

[opus]

My (and several other people's) analysis from the comic thread is that it goes

1. Roy (alignment and personality similarities, very responsible)
2. Haley (female, which Durkon likes, but more importantly responsible family member, chaotic criminal backgound a minus)
3. Elan (Good aligned but annoying and irresponsible)
4. Belkar (explicitly listed as #4, evil, irresponsible)
5. Vaarsuvius (not good, not responsible for existing family so more certainty here than even Belkar)

Also, marrying an animal would be an affront to the honorable traditions of both humans and dwarves!

Yeah, gotta disagree about belkar being 'irresponsible". He's taken damn good care of Mr. Scruffy for a while now, and taken responsibility for blood-feast the extreminator.

[Procyonpi]

I love that I came here for the express purpose of creating this thread after reading today's comic to discover that someone had already made it :P

[Bilbo Baggins]

My (and several other people's) analysis from the comic thread is that it goes

1. Roy (alignment and personality similarities, very responsible)
2. Haley (female, which Durkon likes, but more importantly responsible family member, chaotic criminal backgound a minus)
3. Elan (Good aligned but annoying and irresponsible)
4. Belkar (explicitly listed as #4, evil, irresponsible)
5. Vaarsuvius (not good, not responsible for existing family so more certainty here than even Belkar)

I agree with this ordering, possibly switching Roy and Haley? Definitely think V is last, especially since they're already married.

[Ruck]

I'll just repeat myself:


Oh, before I forget, here are my rankings of Durkon's view on OOTS marriage partners:

If he's heterosexual: Haley, Roy, Elan, Belkar, Vaarsuvius
If he's not: Roy, Elan, Haley, Belkar, Vaarsuvius

I put Elan over Haley in case #2 because he's more honest and kind than her, and I think that matters to Durkon. I put Vaarsuvius last due to V's tendency to solve interpersonal conflicts with arcane destruction-- V may be improving in that regard, but given Durkon's most recent relationship experience, I think he's going to be pretty reluctant to be in a marriage where that is on the table.

[rferries]

I have to say this issue is driving me crazy. It might not be such a problem if Belkar weren't so hideously, sociopathically EVIL - it's hard to imagine LG Durkon being less compatible with anyone than capital-C Chaotic capital-E Evil than Belkar. Even as a joke, it's discomfiting - I honestly would prefer Durkon end up with one of the animals instead haha.

[Ruck]

I have to say this issue is driving me crazy. It might not be such a problem if Belkar weren't so hideously, sociopathically EVIL - it's hard to imagine LG Durkon being less compatible with anyone than capital-C Chaotic capital-E Evil than Belkar. Even as a joke, it's discomfiting - I honestly would prefer Durkon end up with one of the animals instead haha.

Still think V is more likely to kill Durkon in a marriage than Belkar. (If in part because relative class tiers make that far more possible.)

[The Pilgrim]

I suppose V is the member of the OOTS who comes last after Belkar. If only because, as far as Durkon knows, V is married.

[opus]

Ok, belkar was last. V wasn't on the list because she's married and hilgya found out how seriously durkon takes marriage. So belkar was last.

[DeTess]

I suppose V is the member of the OOTS who comes last after Belkar. If only because, as far as Durkon knows, V is married.

Yeah, I think this is the main reason Belkar isn't last on the list.

[Werbaer]

I suppose V is the member of the OOTS who comes last after Belkar. If only because, as far as Durkon knows, V is married.
That.
5. V (married)
4. Belkar (last of the available choices)
3.-1. Durkon has no need to rank them.

[Goblin_Priest]

Not to be a party pooper, but I'm gonna say he doesn't actually have an actual list in mind, that's just the kind of thing people say as jokes ("that's the second best/worst X I've ever seen!"). ;)

[Concept]

Since a large portion of the party is male, we can throw out gender. If it's not a disqualifier for Durkon, then ... it's not.

Durkon had meaningful and extended conversations with Roy and V, but Roy is far and away the most compatible. Anyone who thinks getting married ruins a friendship is doing it wrong (fight me).

Haley's apparent recklessness and lawlessness are forgivable, as they formed out of loyalty to her family and duty to her father. She can take things seriously, including party lead in Roy's absence. The law vs chaos would be a stressor, so I would hope Durkon can do better, but maybe not "within the party."

V is in fact single now, but only because due to extreme neglect of duty. Intellectually compatible, but with some serious flaws in Durkon's eyes. However, they are at least acknowledged by V, so if redemption is an option, I'd have to put V ahead of the Belkster (in Durkon's estimation). There was mutual respect as V and Durkon discussed the ongoing prank war (between V and Belkar). I view them as compatible, and Durkon doesn't seem all that judgmental about past mistakes. But there's a chance that Durkon can't overlook the family neglect and doomsday antics, at a personal level. Perhaps that redemption includes obligation to V's estranged family.

Irreconcilable differences exist with Belkar's homicidal mania and Elan's extreme silliness.

Elan is funny and has his own kind of wisdom, but in a rediculous and silly way, and he barely acknowledges what other people say other than to misinterpret it or make a joke. Durkan is much more serious, and enjoys extended meaningful conversations, as he has had with Roy, the vampire lizard, and Varsuvius. I don't think they can hold an extended conversation. There's just no way this could work.

I'm pretty sure 1 Roy and 5 Elan. I think V should be second, if certain flaws can be overlooked, but I don't know Durkon's mind.

(And I have not accounted for Elan's charisma score and good looks, since I don't consider those all that important for long term compatibility. And of course goblin priest is right - I'm just pretending to take it seriously.)

[MoiMagnus]

And of course goblin priest is right

It took me 30s to undestand that you were not saying "Durkon's first choice for marriage is Redcloak", but actually talking about someone's pseudo.

[Paschendale]

I think everyone is underestimating Elan's raw sex appeal. People are throwing themselves at him pretty frequently. He had 18 charisma in the first dungeon. Now, with higher levels, magical enhancements, and higher scores in social skills like persuasion, Elan is probably the most attractive person that most people who have met him, have met. (That's a clunky sentence)

In short, Elan should be higher on the list than Roy. Sheer hotness (especially matched with Elan's genuine kindness) counts for a lot. He's a sex machine who's also a sweetheart. Who cares if he's kinda dumb?

[understatement]

In short, Elan should be higher on the list than Roy. Sheer hotness (especially matched with Elan's genuine kindness) counts for a lot. He's a sex machine who's also a sweetheart. Who cares if he's kinda dumb?

Tell that to V.


It took me 30s to undestand that you were not saying "Durkon's first choice for marriage is Redcloak", but actually talking about someone's pseudo.

You know, with the possibility of them meeting up...it's not as far-fetched as it should be.

Except one is LG and the other LE, but whatever

[Hekko]

V is in fact single now, but only because due to extreme neglect of duty. Intellectually compatible, but with some serious flaws in Durkon's eyes. However, they are at least acknowledged by V, so if redemption is an option, I'd have to put V ahead of the Belkster (in Durkon's estimation). There was mutual respect as V and Durkon discussed the ongoing prank war (between V and Belkar). I view them as compatible, and Durkon doesn't seem all that judgmental about past mistakes. But there's a chance that Durkon can't overlook the family neglect and doomsday antics, at a personal level. Perhaps that redemption includes obligation to V's estranged family.

How much does Durkon know about V's situation, though? Given how late everyone except for Haley found out they were even married, I'd wager V doesn't really share personal details. I reckon what Durkon actually thinks is that V is married and his ranking is based on that.

Not to metion the extreme neglect of duty - this is something Blackwing and Roy know about. I'm pretty sure V didn't share this with anybody else (and with Roy only because it turned out the consequences of leasing the soul-splices may affect their adventure).

If you want to consider all we know instead of what Durkon likely knows, then you also need to consider that Vaarsuvius is no way over Inkyrius (yet, maybe even never). V may be technically single now, but emotionally remains invested in the relationship with their mate.

[Liquor Box]

My list is:
1. Hayley
2. Roy
3, Elan
4. Belkar
5 V

I don't think Durkon is thinking of animals associated with the party - they are not party members and marriage to an animal is probably impossible in the game world as it is in real life. If Durkon became life companion with an animal the correct term for it would be 'pet', not 'spouse'.

Hayley is first because Durkon has showed he is attracted to females (and Hayley in particular).

Durkon has never shown a romantic or sexual interest in males (and has recoiled from Elan in particular). For that reason i don't think degrees of attractiveness differentiate the male party members. Instead, I think he ranks them based on who he gets along best with. Him and Roy are best friends, so Roy is first of the boys. Elan is basically good aligned even if of a different personality type, so is second. Belkar is diametrically opposed from an alignment perspective, but has often appeared to share comradarie with Durkon, and Durkon does show appreciation in this latest strip, so I am unsurprised that Belkar is fourth. I don't recall any scenes where V or Durkon showed affection for one another (platonic or otherwise), V is arguably more evil than Belkar, and frankly V is simply much less likeable than Belkar.

[goodyarn]

Hayley is first because Durkon has showed he is attracted to females (and Hayley in particular).

Yeah. That's why I have her first too. Durkon and Roy might be better suited personality-wise, but after all the we've learned about him -- who he is when he's not being a cleric -- he seems a lot more human, er dwarvish. I can see him putting his baser needs first, which is kind of surprising to me, but there you have it.

I was kidding about the animals. Jeez.

Here's my real list:
Haley
Roy
Elan
Belkar
V, because trees



I love that I came here for the express purpose of creating this thread after reading today's comic to discover that someone had already made it :P

Yay! :P

[Once a Fool]

Yeah, gotta disagree about belkar being 'irresponsible". He's taken damn good care of Mr. Scruffy for a while now, and taken responsibility for blood-feast the extreminator.

Has he though? Surely that bag of holding has run out of breathable air by now?

[RatElemental]

It may be worth noting that V is the only member of the order likely to outlive Durkon assuming they both die of natural causes, with Belkar being the one with a chance to at least make it until Durkon is venerable (discounting the prophesy).

Going into a relationship with someone already knowing you're definitely going to out live them, and by hundreds of years no less, would probably put some strain on things.

Also, Belkar's actions during Durkon's stint as a prisoner in his own mind might have influenced him getting a bump up the list.

[Heksefatter]

I love that I came here for the express purpose of creating this thread after reading today's comic to discover that someone had already made it :P

Me too. Great minds think alike.

[Heksefatter]

Yeah. That's why I have her first too. Durkon and Roy might be better suited personality-wise, but after all the we've learned about him -- who he is when he's not being a cleric -- he seems a lot more human, er dwarvish. I can see him putting his baser needs first, which is kind of surprising to me, but there you have it.

I was kidding about the animals. Jeez.

Here's my real list:
Haley
Roy
Elan
Belkar
V, because trees




Yay! :P

I agree with that list. ESPECIALLY due to your wise and perceptive reason for putting V last. I agreed that V belonged there, but I couldn't quite figure out why. The reason you stated is clearly a decisive one.

[Aquillion]

I feel like Roy would be, without a doubt, the first choice. He's the one Durkon spent more time with and they grew to be each others' friends and confidantes (cue Golden Girls theme). And we know from this book that Durkon knows about Eric's death, one of Roy's deepest, most character-defining moments.I dunno. Something people pointed out on the other thread: It's possible Durkon views Roy as a brother, which would make him the one person below Belkar on the list.

Honestly, it's interesting to try and figure out who's the one person below Belkar (excluding animal companions.) Most characters have some rationale:

V: Has had significant philosophical disagreements with Durkon that were never really resolved. Also, as far as Durkon knows, is already married, unlike the others (even if they're in committed relationships.)

Elan: Is Elan. This should be self-explanatory. Durkon is kind but I always got the sense that he wasn't really that enthused by Elan's antics.

Roy: As mentioned above, Durkon could view him as a brother.

Haley: Most chaotic party member; is an actual thief.

[The Duskblade]

Keeping in mind the joke implies he's not romantically interested in any of the Order. Depending on for the purposes of the joke he's treating sexuality as a concern (and is straight), Haley then Roy, or Vice versa if he's going off of compatible personalities. Then Elan and Belkar. With V last.

V's an Elf wizard who lives in a forest, regularly flies, has shown flexibility on matters of both legality and ethics and is married as far as he knows. I honestly don't think they're friends. Just respected colleagues. Sure Belkar might be awful but he's atleast someone Durkon can have a conversation with.

[Verappo]

I dunno. Something people pointed out on the other thread: It's possible Durkon views Roy as a brother, which would make him the one person below Belkar on the list.

Honestly, it's interesting to try and figure out who's the one person below Belkar (excluding animal companions.) Most characters have some rationale:

V: Has had significant philosophical disagreements with Durkon that were never really resolved. Also, as far as Durkon knows, is already married, unlike the others (even if they're in committed relationships.)

Elan: Is Elan. This should be self-explanatory. Durkon is kind but I always got the sense that he wasn't really that enthused by Elan's antics.

Roy: As mentioned above, Durkon could view him as a brother.

Haley: Most chaotic party member; is an actual thief.

Oh, you're definitely right about Durkon seeing Roy as a brother, my reasoning was just that that would make them the most compatible in this hypotetical scenario where he has to choose between a brother figure, two people to whom he's like a father, and a peer with whom he's had strong disagreements in the past.

Like, I see ZERO sexual tension between Durkon and any of the order, but I could see him and Roy being pretty content playing house if that had to happen :smallbiggrin: If anything they'd live a quiet, well ordered life. Next to that I would place post-character development V, even though they didn't really interact after their reconciliation, so he wouldn't know all of that past "ok, he seems to have calmed down a bit". If anything V would have someone to bond over lost partners and children with, now.

I'd say that Durkon would then choose Haley over Elan, because despite her greed/chaotic tendencies, at least she's sharp enough that Durkon would know he can leave the house without fear that their oven would explode, a reassurance that Elan (with all his good intent) cannot always provide :smallbiggrin:

If Durkon still thinks of V as the "blow things up first, think second" type, I'd say they'd be last on the list. Otherwise Elan might get that place out of sheer clumsiness :smallbiggrin:. Although now that I think about it, Durkon seems to have adopted a slightly Elan-ish approach to things lately, so who knows

[MReav]

From what I can tell, Durkon is heterosexual given his line about heterosexual buddies regarding his love of Thor (not that there is anything wrong with the alternative) in On The Origin of PCs, him perving (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html)on Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0035.html), his sex with Hilgya, his obvious discomfort with naked Elan despite the latter's 18 Charisma (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0027.html), and his obvious discomfort with seeing Roy naked. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0665.html)

However, he is somewhat understanding about issues involving compatibility, at least after taking a Flame Strike to the face after his last ill-informed marriage proposal.

So, before that, he'd probably have ranked it as such (though I doubt the thought had ever crossed his mind):

1. Haley (only one he'd consider being remotely sexually compatible with)
2. Roy (he knows him well enough that they could respect each others' boundaries, which would probably include a 'no sex' rule).
3. Elan (Elan's an idiot, but a good-hearted one, and would respect a 'no sex' rule)
4. Belkar (he's an evil little psychopath, but the two of them have enough mutual distaste to stay away from each other and only have the marriage be one on paper for whatever contrived scenario that forced them to marry in the first place)
5. V (the whole reason Durkon took issue sleeping with Hilgya is the marriage thing, and I don't think V ever mentioned the divorce. Plus, Durkon probably wouldn't feel comfortable proposing to someone he doesn't even know the gender of).
6. Blackwing (a sapient bird is probably not someone Durkon would be interested in marrying, but it's higher on the list than a non-sapient animal).
7. Bloodfeast the Extreminator (Durkon probably wouldn't want to have sex with a dinosaur/lizard, but at this low rank it's either this or the cat).
8. Mr. Scruffy (Durkon isn't the kind to horn in on another man's class feature).

After being Flame Striked, he now swaps Roy and Haley, because he realizes that you can be attracted to someone and still be horribly incompatible, which is kind of essential for a marriage.

[Ruck]

I really don't think Durkon is counting the animals, or any temporary companions, in part because he uses "just in the party" when he says that to Belkar and also because it's not nearly as good a burn if it's "fourth out of (seven or eight or more)" instead of "fourth out of five."

[Seward]

See also the main thread for the strip. We went over this pretty thoroughly there.

My list is Roy, Haley or Elan, Beklar, V in that order.

The only one Durkon's sexually attracted to is probably Haley (Roy is remotely possible), but that's not as important to Durkon as it would be to many folks, especially since he's not making babies with anybody that isn't a Dwarf. (no Half-Dwarves in 3.5).

V is last not because V is married (V is not, V signed the divorce agreement), and Elan/Haley's relationship is stronger than V/Inky at this point. V is last because V isn't loyal to V's family. V abandoning V's family to pursue ultimate arcane power is pretty much the exact objection he had to Hilgya abandoning her husband.

The one positive quality Haley, Elan and Belkar have in spite of being chaotic is they're all intensely loyal to family (if you assume Belkar's family is the animals he's attached to). If that transferred to their mate, then that would fit Dwarven ideas of being loyal to your marriage partner. With Roy it isn't even a question, they're already "heterosexual life partners", with loyalty even beyond death.

I see Haley and Elan as a toss-up.

Haley's got a personality more like Loki than Thor, and she has a profession that is pretty antithical to what Durkon considers right and proper.

Elan's got a profession Durkon respects (see interactions with Squeaky) and behaves very much like Thor does...so you'd think Elan would be #2 easily. Except that Durkon responds to Elan creating not one but two puppet religions in at least as negative a way as he also responds to touching Elan's naked body. Where he clearly is attracted to Haley's body. (regardless of sexuality, those two things are facts. Durkon might just find skinny bodies repulsive, we don't know for sure why he's repulsed).

So it depends on whether he cares more about basic personality+profession vs attraction/repulsion+treating religion lightly. (Haley's no prize on the religion front either - faking being a follower of Thor, but Durkon was less upset by that and might even have a "Pascal's Wager" approach where Haley could be lead to Thor by behaving like a Thor follower eventually).

[Potatopeelerkin]

Based on Durkon's already-stated opinions on dating someone who's married, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html) I think that alone guarantees V's place as last. I doubt he knows about V's imminent divorce. He didn't know they were married in the first place for a while.

I don't think he's against it because he thinks V's irresponsible with their family though. I get the feeling V's pretty private about this stuff, and Durkon's unlikely to even know details like V's mate's hair colour or name, let alone their relationship woes.

[RatElemental]

Based on Durkon's already-stated opinions on dating someone who's married, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html) I think that alone guarantees V's place as last. I doubt he knows about V's imminent divorce. He didn't know they were married in the first place for a while.

They're already divorced. V signed the papers and gave up their chance at a hearing.

[Kish]

Durkon wasn't there at the time, and has no way of knowing that unless Vaarsuvius has been announcing, "By the way, I'm now divorced," to people who didn't know they were married until long after meeting them.

[sengmeng]

I love that this thread exists.

But I think V or Elan is dead last. Haley and Roy probably vie for 1st as Haley is of Durkon's preferred gender but Roy is of similar wisdom and outlook, and his oldest friend. I don't know how attractive Durkon would find V, but if he's open to either gender he's probably ok with nebulous gender as well. That leaves Elan, with an 18 charisma but seemingly Chaotic Scatterbrained in alignment, which I have a hard time seeing Durkon partnering with. Maybe Belkar wins out by being the right height lol? Both V and Elan are probably a bit tall and slight of build for a dwarf's sensibilities.

[martianmister]

1. Haley (only one he sexually attracted)
2. Vaarsuvius (they like to hang out)
3. Elan (most good looking member)
4. Belkar (like him despite of his evil acts)
5. Roy (part of his bro-zone, not cool)
6. Blackwing (has human-like intelligence)
7. Mr. Scruffy (NOPE)

[understatement]

In Durkon's case, does ideal marriage have to stem from attraction? He could just base it off friendship and stability, which in this case would be

Malack

:roy:

[137beth]

Roy would definitely be his first choice. As a wise person said, if there is going to be a massive change in the romantic relationships between the main characters,


....it would be Roy breaking up with Celia to get with Durkon. Everyone knows that.

[Paschendale]

Why exactly does everyone assume that Durkon is strictly heterosexual? Keep in mind, Belkar is on the list, and the implication of Thor's cryptic affirmation for Minrah is that he, and thus Dwarven society, is pretty tolerant. Durkon could definitely have a more open sexual orientation.

Or, since this is probably just a jokey list in Durkon's imagination, why would he necessarily consider it from a strictly heterosexual viewpoint? Even if he only likes the ladies, he's certainly capable of recognizing and appreciating male attractiveness.

[CriticalFailure]

Based on the exhaustive and boring discussion in a previous post, most people have inferred he’s straight based on only ever showing attraction to women (Hilgya, Haley) in contrast to repulsion towards 18 points of naked male charisma and the fact that he referred to himself as “heterosexual buddies, not that there’s anything wrong with the alternative” with I think Thor.

I don’t think there’s any obvious method of ranking and Durkon may not actually have ranked them given that it was a joke.

[martianmister]

Why exactly does everyone assume that Durkon is strictly heterosexual?

Who that "everyone" you're talking about? Definitely not the people on this thread.

[KorvinStarmast]

..given that it was a joke. Which condition apparently flew over a few craniums. The fun we have. :smallcool:

[RatElemental]

Which condition apparently flew over a few craniums. The fun we have. :smallcool:

I don't know about you, but brutally dissecting jokes to derive contrived literal meanings from them is practically my hobby.

[Aquillion]

Why exactly does everyone assume that Durkon is strictly heterosexual?I don't think most people are assuming that. It's possible the line is just a joke, but (whether it is or isn't) it's also quite possible Durkon is a non-zero on the Kinsey scale.

Also also, though, it's possible for him to be a non-zero on the Kinsey scale and still prefer women. (In fact, most bisexual people do have a preference for one gender or the other, at least to a degree - very few people are absolutely perfectly at the middle of the spectrum. Also the spectrum itself is an oversimplification and should be taken with a grain of salt, but it's at least a reasonable reference point for discussions.)

I think that based on what we've seen, it's reasonable to infer that females are Durkon's preferred gender, though we don't know it for absolute certainty; but he may or may not be willing to seriously contemplate relationships with males or elves as well.

[RatElemental]

It is entirely possible he was repulsed at Elan because Elan is a human rather than a male. That does raise some questions about showing an interest in Haley though.

[Aquillion]

It is entirely possible he was repulsed at Elan because Elan is a human rather than a male. That does raise some questions about showing an interest in Haley though.It would be weird for Belkar to be #4 in that case, though, since he'd have to have placed several people above him.

It's also possible that Durkon didn't appreciate seeing someone's genitals in that situation regardless of gender. Just because you're potentially attracted to them doesn't mean you want to see them running around naked in public. (Yes, I know there's the scene with Haley's wardrobe malfunction, but that's a bit different than full nudity.)

Although if we want to put on our Doylist hats for a moment it's pretty clear those scenes were just one-off gags that didn't have too much larger thought put into them. As I recall, the author even apologized for the wardrobe malfunction scene in the forums afterwards - I doubt he would have written those scenes that way today. I mean we could dismiss this more recent comic as a one-off gag, but I think it's reasonable to say it might have had more thought put into it, since the comic has evolved.

And honestly, speaking of which... putting aside his sexuality, it's hard to see modern Durkon perving on Haley the way he does in some early strips (the wardrobe malfunction scene, and the silly joke with the crystal balls, say.) That just doesn't fit his modern characterization too well - Belkar and Elan definitely, Roy maybe (although it's not a perfect fit for modern Roy, either), but Durkon hasn't been that character in a long long time. So it might be best to write off those scenes as early installment weirdness, when the author hadn't put as much thought into their sexuality or their deeper characterization.

[Heksefatter]

Why exactly does everyone assume that Durkon is strictly heterosexual? Keep in mind, Belkar is on the list, and the implication of Thor's cryptic affirmation for Minrah is that he, and thus Dwarven society, is pretty tolerant. Durkon could definitely have a more open sexual orientation.

Or, since this is probably just a jokey list in Durkon's imagination, why would he necessarily consider it from a strictly heterosexual viewpoint? Even if he only likes the ladies, he's certainly capable of recognizing and appreciating male attractiveness.

There is little to indicate that Durkon is strictly heterosexual, but he does seem to prefer women. He's expressed attraction to women, but not to men, which definitely seems to imply that women at least are his preferred gender.

There are two things that I would like to point out, though:

1) I am not sure that Dwarven society is all that tolerant about sexual mores. Assume that Thor did mean that it was ok for Minrah to be attracted to women, which I think is quite likely. But if Dwarven society was perfectly cool with it, Minrah would likely not need that affirmation.

2) Origin of PCs spoiler:

Durkon actually says something about his and possibly Dwarven society's attitude to homosexual attraction in Origin. When he describes his love for Thor, he says that he loves him with all his heart in a strictly buddies, heterosexual way (quoting from memory), but that there's nothing wrong with the alternative.

To me, this sounds like your slightly standard heterosexual "I don't wanna be thought of as gay, but have nothing against them" line.

If I had to guess, I would say that Dwarven society is not completely cool with non-heterosexual relations, due to their stern clan structure. They likely expect children and a non-heterosexual pairing may not deliver of in a way which a clan-society approves of (for example adoption).

This is, of course, highly uncertain and strictly grasp-at-straws speculation, which I indulge in, partly because it fits with this wonderful thread.

[Aveline]

If we are to consider the "strictly heterosexual way" comment as evidence of something, I implore everyone remember that non-heterosexuals often make great pains to conceal it, for obvious reasons.

[RatElemental]

If I had to guess, I would say that Dwarven society is not completely cool with non-heterosexual relations, due to their stern clan structure. They likely expect children and a non-heterosexual pairing may not deliver of in a way which a clan-society approves of (for example adoption).

This is, of course, highly uncertain and strictly grasp-at-straws speculation, which I indulge in, partly because it fits with this wonderful thread.

There are actually spells and magic items that would help with the children thing, many of them cheaper than getting someone raised from the dead, though I suppose any cost at all may lead to it being frowned upon unless the pair pay for it out of pocket.

[Heksefatter]

There are actually spells and magic items that would help with the children thing, many of them cheaper than getting someone raised from the dead, though I suppose any cost at all may lead to it being frowned upon unless the pair pay for it out of pocket.

Yeah, I thought of the same. I don't know the price of said spells, but I figure that if spellcasting is expensive, it could be trouble for potential partners.

[Heksefatter]

I don't know about you, but brutally dissecting jokes to derive contrived literal meanings from them is practically my hobby.

A widely-shared hobby around here...including by yours truly. I am just sad that I wasn't the one to start this thread. <3

[veti]

V is last not because V is married (V is not, V signed the divorce agreement), and Elan/Haley's relationship is stronger than V/Inky at this point. V is last because V isn't loyal to V's family. V abandoning V's family to pursue ultimate arcane power is pretty much the exact objection he had to Hilgya abandoning her husband.

I feel it's worth pointing out that neither V nor Inky nor their kids thought that V had "abandoned" them. After all, she's only been gone a few years. In elf terms, that's no more than a brief business trip. It was only when V refused Inky's plea to stay, after defeating the dragon and in obvious urgent need of moral aid, that they came to that conclusion. All of which, Durkon knows nothing about.