Pact of the Chain questions

[TheCleverGuy]

Does the improved familiar granted by the Warlock's Pact of the Chain use everything from the stat block for that creature? For example, the Sprite stat block says it can attack with a longsword or a shortbow--can the sprite familiar make those same attacks?

On the same subject, what's the benefit of having a familiar who can attack if that attack can only ever do 1 damage? Aren't you almost always better off using Eldrich Blast? Or just attacking using your own weapon?

[Azgeroth]

Does the improved familiar granted by the Warlock's Pact of the Chain use everything from the stat block for that creature? For example, the Sprite stat block says it can attack with a longsword or a shortbow--can the sprite familiar make those same attacks?
yes, it totally can! for example the imp can use its innate spellcasting, pseudodragon can use its poison tail attack..



On the same subject, what's the benefit of having a familiar who can attack if that attack can only ever do 1 damage? Aren't you almost always better off using Eldrich Blast? Or just attacking using your own weapon?
well, the benefit is for the lols, a tiny dude with wings going ham, and really just pricking some one with a needle.. hehe..

but yeah, EB is almost always the more optimal option.

EDIT : the other benefit of having your meagre familiar attack, is any other familiar can't. so in essence, the person they are attacking are being attacked by summoned creatures, out of a combat scenario, that can be a very valuable thing..

[Man_Over_Game]

Does the improved familiar granted by the Warlock's Pact of the Chain use everything from the stat block for that creature? For example, the Sprite stat block says it can attack with a longsword or a shortbow--can the sprite familiar make those same attacks?

On the same subject, what's the benefit of having a familiar who can attack if that attack can only ever do 1 damage? Aren't you almost always better off using Eldrich Blast? Or just attacking using your own weapon?

The familiar cannot attack due to the rules listed on the Find Familiar spell.

The Warlock Pact of the Chain feature says that you get Find Familiar, but you use an alternate list of creatures to use instead of the standard Find Familiar creature options. You still follow the rules for Find Familiar, including the fact that the familiar isn't allowed to attack (as specified by the spell).

[Segev]

The familiar cannot attack due to the rules listed on the Find Familiar spell.

I could be misremembering, but I thought that was one of the explicit changes that the improved familiar offered by Pact of the Chain made: they could attack, as long as you gave them your action to do it with.

[JNAProductions]

The familiar cannot attack due to the rules listed on the Find Familiar spell.

Pact of the Chain specifically lifts that restriction.

[Misterwhisper]

The familiar cannot attack due to the rules listed on the Find Familiar spell.

A chain pact familiar can.

[Man_Over_Game]

Ah, balls, forgot about that weird clause (sacrifice one of your own attacks so your familiar can make one with a reaction).

My bad.

[Vogie]

Does the improved familiar granted by the Warlock's Pact of the Chain use everything from the stat block for that creature? For example, the Sprite stat block says it can attack with a longsword or a shortbow--can the sprite familiar make those same attacks?

On the same subject, what's the benefit of having a familiar who can attack if that attack can only ever do 1 damage? Aren't you almost always better off using Eldrich Blast? Or just attacking using your own weapon?


Yes
Yes
The Sprite's shortbow attack & the Pseudodragon's sting has a sleep-esque effect on it, the Imp deals poison damage, and the Quasit's Claws can give the Poisoned condition. If the party is tied up with ropes, a small creature slashing at the bonds with their claws or itty bitty longsword may be handy...
If you're not looking for one of the above, have sight of the target, or in range, sure. Your familiars allow you to attack at different angles, and their attacks don't require any verbal components on your part, as you're telepathically communicating with them.
Unless you're a hexblade, you would have to have the appropriate physical stats to use your own weapon, either Strength or Dexterity. Your Sprite, for example, will always have +6 to hit on it's shortbow regardless of your physical stats.

[Misterwhisper]

Ah, balls, forgot about that weird clause (sacrifice one of your own attacks so your familiar can make one with a reaction).

My bad.

No problem, I played a pact of chain warlock from 1 - 14 and never used it once. It is just a VERY rare occasion where giving up your much better attack to let your minion poke at something would be a good idea.

[TheCleverGuy]

yes, it totally can! for example the imp can use its innate spellcasting, pseudodragon can use its poison tail attack..


well, the benefit is for the lols, a tiny dude with wings going ham, and really just pricking some one with a needle.. hehe..

but yeah, EB is almost always the more optimal option.

EDIT : the other benefit of having your meagre familiar attack, is any other familiar can't. so in essence, the person they are attacking are being attacked by summoned creatures, out of a combat scenario, that can be a very valuable thing..



Yes
Yes
The Sprite's shortbow attack & the Pseudodragon's sting has a sleep-esque effect on it, the Imp deals poison damage, and the Quasit's Claws can give the Poisoned condition. If the party is tied up with ropes, a small creature slashing at the bonds with their claws or itty bitty longsword may be handy...
If you're not looking for one of the above, have sight of the target, or in range, sure. Your familiars allow you to attack at different angles, and their attacks don't require any verbal components on your part, as you're telepathically communicating with them.
Unless you're a hexblade, you would have to have the appropriate physical stats to use your own weapon, either Strength or Dexterity. Your Sprite, for example, will always have +6 to hit on it's shortbow regardless of your physical stats.


Thanks, this all makes a lot of sense. Sounds like the familiar is meant to be more situationally useful rather than relied on in combat.

[Vogie]

Thanks, this all makes a lot of sense. Sounds like the familiar is meant to be more situationally useful rather than relied on in combat.

It's still going to be relied on. If you're using weapons, it can stay invisible and use the help action, acting like a 13th level Arcane Trickster as early as level 3. As a Celestial warlock, you'll have access to be able to deliver touch spells, allowing you to effectively Cure Wounds, Lesser/Greater Restoration and even Revivify at range, which is unique to this subclass due to all of the familiars being invisible and staying invisible when delivering spells.

[ENHenry]

Plus, one of my personal favorites -- a flying familiar with the Shocking Grasp cantrip, who can deliver that damage (preferably on a metal armor-wearing enemy so that they attack with advantage) and when they do damage, they fly away the same round, and can't get op-attacked... Worst case, if your familiar gets nailed, you're out only 10 gp, instead of putting yourself at risk!

[Misterwhisper]

Plus, one of my personal favorites -- a flying familiar with the Shocking Grasp cantrip, who can deliver that damage (preferably on a metal armor-wearing enemy so that they attack with advantage) and when they do damage, they fly away the same round, and can't get op-attacked... Worst case, if your familiar gets nailed, you're out only 10 gp, instead of putting yourself at risk!

Works even better on a celestial warlock with the inflict wounds spell.

My level 5 warlock once completely ruined someone's day with that spell when it crit for 10D10 necrotic damage out of nowhere because an invisible crow pecked him and flew away.

It was even better because it COMPLETELY confused the other PCs because they saw me cast a spell, then an invisible crow became visible behind someone I just gave the evil eye to and pecked him once on the shoulder and he fell over dead.

[Rukelnikov]

I played a Chainlock, and the familiar was pretty useful in combat, it can't use the "attack" action in combat, but who cares, it's not like I'd have had it do so often after lvl 5, and never after 10. The main use I got from my familiar was extra item slots, extra action economy, and most importantly, extra concentration.

Over the course of my locks lifespan, the familiar's usefulness in combat improved with levels, I juggled with familiars form a bit, but in combat Imp is generally the best choice IMO, early on it can provide advantage to one ally's attack, soak a bit of damage thx to its resistance (most enemies should not be aware the imp can't do AoO), administer potions, etc. Not much, but at those levels, the advantage on one attack is useful, and soaking 10 hp damage is good.

Familiars become really useful when magic items start dropping. Wand of MM was a massive power spike for my familiar, later on when I switched out my staff of thunder and lightning and gave it to my Imp, also good, and the ring of spell storing was a game changer, I could effectively have 2 concentration spells on, as long as one of them wasn't self only. And finally near the end of that locks career I gave my familiar a cube of force, and had him almost always with a ready action to turn it on at the necesary level when a spell was bein cast on us, or an enemy approached, that was awesome actually.

These may seem very specific items, but over the course of a characters career odds are you wil find a lot of tiems you wouldn't equip because of attunement restrictions, or even wouldn't use because "I'd rather do X other thing", familiar gets to use those things.

[sophontteks]

For non-celestial warlocks there is an invocation that grants the curse spell. Its quite a nice touch spell in combination with warlock familiars specifically.

An imps invisibility only breaks if it is attacked. Delivering a touch spell is not an attack. Curse is also not an obvious effect. So, your familiar can deliver a curse without the target knowing anything has happened at all.

On top of this you can write your own curses, they can last for 24 hours, and they don't cost concentration at level 9. Its a pretty sweet deal for an invocation.

[Trustypeaches]

No problem, I played a pact of chain warlock from 1 - 14 and never used it once. It is just a VERY rare occasion where giving up your much better attack to let your minion poke at something would be a good idea.I used it with my imp a bit on occasions where I couldn’t get out of melee range of an enemy, imposing disadvantage on my Eldritch blasts.

[Misterwhisper]

I used it with my imp a bit on occasions where I couldn’t get out of melee range of an enemy, imposing disadvantage on my Eldritch blasts.

That is when you have it use help to cancel out disadvantage and hit with repelling blast to push them back out of range.

[Erys]

Another amusing thing you can do with an imp at low level (if you can cast Darkness but don't Devils Sight) is, well, cast Darkness and let your imp do the heavy lifting.

[Trustypeaches]

That is when you have it use help to cancel out disadvantage and hit with repelling blast to push them back out of range.Assuming it has initiative before you, then sure.

[TheCleverGuy]

I played a Chainlock, and the familiar was pretty useful in combat, it can't use the "attack" action in combat, but who cares, it's not like I'd have had it do so often after lvl 5, and never after 10. The main use I got from my familiar was extra item slots, extra action economy, and most importantly, extra concentration.

Over the course of my locks lifespan, the familiar's usefulness in combat improved with levels, I juggled with familiars form a bit, but in combat Imp is generally the best choice IMO, early on it can provide advantage to one ally's attack, soak a bit of damage thx to its resistance (most enemies should not be aware the imp can't do AoO), administer potions, etc. Not much, but at those levels, the advantage on one attack is useful, and soaking 10 hp damage is good.

Familiars become really useful when magic items start dropping. Wand of MM was a massive power spike for my familiar, later on when I switched out my staff of thunder and lightning and gave it to my Imp, also good, and the ring of spell storing was a game changer, I could effectively have 2 concentration spells on, as long as one of them wasn't self only. And finally near the end of that locks career I gave my familiar a cube of force, and had him almost always with a ready action to turn it on at the necesary level when a spell was bein cast on us, or an enemy approached, that was awesome actually.

These may seem very specific items, but over the course of a characters career odds are you wil find a lot of tiems you wouldn't equip because of attunement restrictions, or even wouldn't use because "I'd rather do X other thing", familiar gets to use those things.

Oh wow, i never thought of giving the familiar items. That's a great idea!

[Keravath]

Does the improved familiar granted by the Warlock's Pact of the Chain use everything from the stat block for that creature? For example, the Sprite stat block says it can attack with a longsword or a shortbow--can the sprite familiar make those same attacks?

On the same subject, what's the benefit of having a familiar who can attack if that attack can only ever do 1 damage? Aren't you almost always better off using Eldrich Blast? Or just attacking using your own weapon?

One clarification. The familiars use the stat blocks in the player's handbook for familiars. The familiars are all celestial, fey or fiend spirits that take on the form of the desired creature. The reason the clarification is important is that the actual creatures these familiars are based on also have stat blocks in the monster manual which do NOT apply to the familiars created by the find familiar spell. The most notable example is the shared magic resistance that can be provided by a real monster manual imp who is persuaded to be a familiar compared to an imp familiar created by a chainlock with the spell which does not have this ability.

[KyleG]

So on its turn it can use a normal action such as help or use an item etc.
But on YOUR action you can tell it to attack, deliver a spell? But what if you move it into range on its turn and plan to attack/cast thru it on your own turn but the target has moved out of range? Can you move it on your turn? Can you still attack with it if it used its action on its own turn?

[BreaktheStatue]

Depending on how your DM stats them out, Commoners are pretty easy pickings for your familiar, should you ever have the need to quietly kill one.

[Millstone85]

One clarification. The familiars use the stat blocks in the player's handbook for familiars. The familiars are all celestial, fey or fiend spirits that take on the form of the desired creature. The reason the clarification is important is that the actual creatures these familiars are based on also have stat blocks in the monster manual which do NOT apply to the familiars created by the find familiar spell. The most notable example is the shared magic resistance that can be provided by a real monster manual imp who is persuaded to be a familiar compared to an imp familiar created by a chainlock with the spell which does not have this ability.Technically, the PHB and MM stat blocks are identical. The shared magic resistance isn't part of any stat block, but found in a sidebar. And it is that sidebar that isn't supposed to be stacked on find familiar/Pact of the Chain.


So on its turn it can use a normal action such as help or use an item etc.
But on YOUR action you can tell it to attack, deliver a spell? But what if you move it into range on its turn and plan to attack/cast thru it on your own turn but the target has moved out of range? Can you move it on your turn? Can you still attack with it if it used its action on its own turn?When the familiar delivers a touch spell for you, it does so with its reaction. When you have the familiar attack, it also does so with its reaction (errata). There is no conflict with the familiar using its action to help, or turn invisible, etc.

You can't move the familiar on your turn, which makes a fleeing enemy problematic. My advice is to ready your action with "my familiar gets in melee" as a trigger.

[Xetheral]

It's not a combat usage, but I'd like to point out the synergy between Voice of the Chain Master and the Actor feat. Voice of the Chain Master lets you speak in your own voice from your familiar's location, and Actor lets your make your voice sound like the voice of anyone you've heard talk for at least a minute.

The chaos this combination lets you cause is impressive, particularly when combined with an invisible imp familiar.