Dragonborn Wild Darfellan

[schreier]

I know there are posts about this, but I just wanted to confirm my understanding ...

Dragonborn: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b
Darfellan: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050805a&page=2

Wild Template is from Dragon 306: It grants +2 Str, -2 Int -2 Cha. Adds +5 base speed. It replaces any racial skill modifiers with 1 extra skill point, +2 to Listen and Spot, +4 to Wilderness Lore (becomes Survival). Loses -2 on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive. Lose any spell-like abilities. Favored Class becomes Ranger.

The end result would seem to be:
Type: Humanoid (Aquatic, Dragonblood)
Move: 25 Land 45 Swim (I assume wild applies to both base?)
Ability Scores: +4 Str +2 Con -4 Dex -2 Int -2 Cha
+5 to Move
1 extra skill point per level
+4 Survival, +2 Listen +2 Spot
-2 Bluff -2 Diplomacy -2 Sense Motive
Favored Class: Ranger & Fighter
Natural Bite attack (1d6 bite)
+2 Dodge AC bonus vs dragons
Immune to Frightful Presence
Aspect of the Dragon - with Wings, gain flight

Lost Darfellan abilities
Echolocation: 20' blind sight in water
Racial Hatred +2 to Attack and Damage vs sahaguin

[tyckspoon]

So did you have a question, or what's the purpose of this post? :smallconfused:

[JNAProductions]

What is your understanding? Because, yes, you can be a Dragonborn Darfellan.

[schreier]

Sorry - I hit enter by accident - thread updated .. I believe the Wild Template is still applied, since it doesn't replace template, just race.

[Troacctid]

Sorry - I hit enter by accident - thread updated .. I believe the Wild Template is still applied, since it doesn't replace template, just race.
Becoming a dragonborn erases most of your existing racial abilities. See the Mechanics of Rebirth sidebar on page 10.

[liquidformat]

Becoming a dragonborn erases most of your existing racial abilities. See the Mechanics of Rebirth sidebar on page 10.

I think what he is asking is if both wild and dragonborn replace existing racial traits how do you apply them both. Though I think there are a few things from the Darfellan there that still need to be removed I would have to take a closer look than I can right now to see what needs to be pulled.

[Troacctid]

I think what he is asking is if both wild and dragonborn replace existing racial traits how do you apply them both.
Wild is always applied first because it is an inherited template.

[BowStreetRunner]

A Darfellan who goes Dragonborn would lose:


Hold Breath (Ex)
Natural Attack [bite]
Echolocation
Racial Hatred bonus


But would keep:


Type: Humanoid (Darfellan)
+2 Str, -2 Dex
Medium Size
20 ft land speed, 40 ft swim speed
Automatic Language: Darfellan; Bonus Languages: Aquan, Common
Favored Class: Barbarian


Wild Template would lose:


Extra Skill Points
Racial Skill modifiers


But would keep:


+2 Str, -2 Int, -2 Cha
+5 ft to base speed
Favored Class: Ranger


You would then add the Dragonborn abilities to the above.

Not sure where you got the Aquatic subtype - Darfellans, Wild Template, and Dragonborn do not have that.

[schreier]

Page 34 in stormwrack gives the darfellan aquatic subtype.

As far as the template ... I see where you get the application only to Players handbook races, but it only says it is easy to apply to this races. No where does it say they can only be used on those races. I would interpret that as bring from 3.0 with more limited races, so didn't address other races as opposed to being restricted only to handbook races. You're right though that it is a discussion.

Interesting point about the inherited template - is that explicitly spelled out anywhere or is that just a logical application of the rules?

[Troacctid]

Page 34 in stormwrack gives the darfellan aquatic subtype.
I suspect this is an error, as they are described as living on land, and the darfellan statblocks in the book don't have the subtype. (Also, they're based on orcas, which are air-breathers.)


Interesting point about the inherited template - is that explicitly spelled out anywhere or is that just a logical application of the rules?
"Always apply inherited templates before applying acquired templates." MM 293.

In this case, dragonborn isn't a template at all, but the ritual to become one must necessarily take place later in a creature's life, so it necessarily functions as an acquired template in respect to order of application.

[BowStreetRunner]

Page 34 in stormwrack gives the darfellan aquatic subtype.
Interesting that the page 36 and page 143 descriptions of Darfellans don't have that. If I were ruling on this as DM I would fall back on the text-trumps-table rule and not make them aquatic. But it's up to the player's DM.

Note that wild template can be only applied to races from the Players Handbook, so would need the DM to make a change there.I think the point made here was that the templates in the Monster Manual were for monsters and these were for player characters. It doesn't sound to me at all like they are saying these are ONLY for the PHB races. Besides, as the game grew the distinction between races in the player books and the monster books (MM1-5, FF, etc.) really blurred. If I were DM I would allow these on Darfellans, but again it's up to the player's DM.

[schreier]

Effectively you're saying his race is "Wild Darfellan" - so Dragonborn replaces both