Are my spell choices underwhelming?

[MightyDuck]

So, I'm picking spells for my Triton storm sorcerer, trying to come up with a list of thematic (thunder, lightning, wind and water themed) spells with a few favourites thrown in for some utility and I'm feeling kinda conflicted with some of my choices, so I'm hoping you guys can give me some input.

My endgame spell list is;
1st - Shield
2nd - Mirror Image
3rd – Lightning Bolt, Thunder Step, Tidal Wave, Haste
4th – Storm Sphere, Watery Sphere, Greater Invisibility
5th – Animate Object, Cone of Cold
6th – Chain Lightning
7th – Crown of Stars, Whirlwind
8th –
9th – Meteor Swarm/Wish
Obviously at lower levels (1-8) I'm gonna take more 1st and 2nd level spells like thunderwave, chromatic orb and shatter and switch them out as they become obsolete.

My problem with these spells is that A: from what I've read and researched, some of them, primarily tidal wave, storm sphere and whirlwind, are regarded as being mediocre at best and are very rarely considered to be good options and while I'm fine not having the most effective spells (I favour flavor and RP way more) I also don't want to cripple myself too badly since playing with bad spells is really frustrating and not fun. Are my choices at least decent and are there any that I should switch out for better options (recommendations would be appreciated) I just want to make sure that they're fun to play with.

And B: There are quite a lot of concentration spells (Haste, storm sphere, watery sphere, greater invisibility, animate object and whirlwind) and I don't know if that's going to be a huge problem or not, I just feel like a lot of the spells are gonna go unused a lot of the time. Also, is there any point in having both haste and greater invis? I know they both have different effects and benefits but I can't think of a situation where one will completely outstrip the other since they're both straight combat buffs, but maybe I'm missing something.

Sorry if any of these questions have blatantly obvious answers but all my research has just yielded contradictory results and I know its probably gonna come down to personal preference but I still want the take of more experienced and knowledgeable players.

[Man_Over_Game]

A few things to note:

Make sure to grab Earth Tremor early on. Its synergy with your first subclass feature is exceptional, just swap it out at later levels.

Ice/Water spells all have a trend of providing Concentration-less lasting control to the battlefield. Things like Sleet Storm, Ice Storm, and Tidal Wave, all have a unique synergy with Concentration spells, since they usually have some lasting condition that impairs your enemies. Make sure to note that with things like Watery Sphere or Gust of Wind.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

Concentration is one of the hardest things for casters to work around in 5e. That being said, you should be good with this list as long as you have some reliable, non-concentration damage and utility from cantrips and 1st and 2nd level spells along the way. I don't think storm sphere is bad, but it does lose it's shine if you fight a lot of solo enemies. You don't need to be using a new concentration spell all the time. I play a wizard and it's rare that I go through an encounter using concentration on more than two spells the whole time. The rest of the time I'm just using my full action for other spells/actions and often using my bonus action to control the concentration spell (if it even needs to be controlled). As long as you aren't sitting around twiddling your thumbs then you're helping.

[Ninja_Prawn]

It doesn't look like a terrible list. Plus once you get wish, you'll be laughing. But I have a few observations:

There's a heavy focus on direct 'physical' offence. Every single attack spell here is a Str save or a Dex save. I'd consider including at least one mind-affecting spell, in case you encounter something that is strong in both physical stats.
There's not a lot of utility generally. I know it's hard to fit in everything you want as a sorcerer... is there a wizard or cleric in the party who can pick up the slack?
What metamagics are you taking?
Is whirlwind on the sorcerer list now? My mobile app says it isn't, but I don't think it's been updated since XGtE came out. Edit: yes, looks like XGtE did add it to the list.

[Nhorianscum]

You have some redundancy with spell choices (7 direct damage spells), and most of your control spells do the same thing.

I'd shave down the damage spell choices to 3 and pick up counterspell, absorb elements, and a few useful utility spells.

Tidal wave is very good.

Haste and greater invis are both worth having. They're really not overlapping much in real play. Though it's worth noting that this will eat concentration most of the time. Adding enlarge/reduce or enhance ability may be worthwhile on the buffing side of things.

I'm probably run whirlwind/revgrav as my only other concentration spell with the buff suite.

WSphere and SSphere are both stellar 4th level spells and if you delay twin running one of them from 7-9 is worthwhile. Whirlwind trumps both at 13+. Wall of stone is "off element" but it's another concentration spell worth casting over twinned buffs. Dimension door is significantly better than T-step and our 4th level slot looks sorta empty.

The lack of no-save or attack roll effects bugs me but that's just storm forused magic choices being what they are.

---------------

I'd probably play with the following at 20 with the storm element theme in play

1st Shield, Absorb elements
2nd Mirror Image, Blindness/Deafness, Suggestion
3rd Counterspell, Tidal Wave, Haste
4th Ddoor, Greater Invis
5th Telekinesis (refluffed, use with contingency)
6th Chain Lightning
7th Whirlwind, Plane Shift
8th
9th Wish

Assuming Empower/Quicken/Twin/Subtle and decent armor. Swap Suggestion for EnhanceA, Lbolt, or Mswarm if you like.

[Nidgit]

I'd probably drop Thunder Step for Misty Step- the extra range is nice, but are two Sorcery Points and the extra spell level really worth 3d10 damage at that level?

I'd probably drop Lightning Bolt as well later, since you have better and more versatile options for direct damage, as well as Storm and/or Watery Sphere once you get Whirlwind. Synaptic Static is a nice option for something of similar level but with a better save (you could flavor it as impossibly loud thunder in their heads disrupting thoughts) if you want to keep damaging spells around.

Keep Tidal Wave! The variable size and prone effect are more than enough to make up for the iffy damage.

Agree with others that Absorb Elements and Counterspell are both very useful options.

[Sigreid]

I would find a wee way to pick up hypnotic pattern. The bang for your buck on that spell is fantastic. My storm sorcerer describes it as being like the Arura borealis.

[sophontteks]

What are your metamagics? You want to build around your metamagics quite a lot. You also want spells that allow you to be close to the enemy where your AOE and flying bonus action can be used. Storm sorcerers don't have the innate tools to do their role and multiclassing a couple levels of fighter, cleric, or paladin really helps get the defenses they need to use their abilities.

Despite being a squishy caster, sorcerers want to be up close for their AOE and battlefield repositioning, and they even want to get hit for storms fury to proc. If you are going pure blaster these abilities will often go unused. Its a problem with the archtype, but you can try to work around it a bit with your spells.

[ImproperJustice]

I also run an elemental themed sorceror and your spell picks are very similar to my own.

Yes, in an internet type forum, people will want to emphasize certain spells or highlight the superiority of some over others.

But there is a joy from following a theme, and sometimes using spells thatbare not “upper tier” can lead to a better understanding of different applications of those spells.

I recently began using tidal wave on another character, and it’s great. Good range, a very adjustable aoe (which means I can use it more), and a great rider which is capitalized on by the teams heavy hitters.

Storm Sphere is solid extra damage, and upscales really well.

Watery Sphere is a delightful control spell, and has some utility as well. Our group has used it to defeat more than a few traps and obstacles.

Whirlwind is amazing, and people used to talk about how broken it is.

Crown of stars is solid too.

I think you have a solid set up my fellow Sorceror.

[MightyDuck]

It doesn't look like a terrible list. Plus once you get wish, you'll be laughing. But I have a few observations:

There's a heavy focus on direct 'physical' offence. Every single attack spell here is a Str save or a Dex save. I'd consider including at least one mind-affecting spell, in case you encounter something that is strong in both physical stats.
There's not a lot of utility generally. I know it's hard to fit in everything you want as a sorcerer... is there a wizard or cleric in the party who can pick up the slack?
What metamagics are you taking?
Is whirlwind on the sorcerer list now? My mobile app says it isn't, but I don't think it's been updated since XGtE came out.

Not many spells that target mental stats are themed towards the whole storm aesthetic but I'll look into it.
We have a bard, warlock and NPC cleric for utility but if you have any suggestions I'd appreciate it.
Quicken and Empowered at level 3 and I'm debating between careful, subtle,heightened and twinned at higher levels but some input would be appriciated.
Yes, its in XGtE as a sorcerer spell now.


You have some redundancy with spell choices (7 direct damage spells), and most of your control spells do the same thing.

I'd shave down the damage spell choices to 3 and pick up counterspell, absorb elements, and a few useful utility spells.

Tidal wave is very good.

Haste and greater invis are both worth having. They're really not overlapping much in real play. Though it's worth noting that this will eat concentration most of the time. Adding enlarge/reduce or enhance ability may be worthwhile on the buffing side of things.

I'm probably run whirlwind/revgrav as my only other concentration spell with the buff suite.

WSphere and SSphere are both stellar 4th level spells and if you delay twin running one of them from 7-9 is worthwhile. Whirlwind trumps both at 13+. Wall of stone is "off element" but it's another concentration spell worth casting over twinned buffs. Dimension door is significantly better than T-step and our 4th level slot looks sorta empty.

The lack of no-save or attack roll effects bugs me but that's just storm forused magic choices being what they are.

Good advice! We have a bard to counterspell but any suggestions for utility spell would be greatly appreciated. I'll probably drop Watery Sphere when I get whirlwind but Storm Sphere gives me a use for my bonus action in case I don't have a slot for crown of stars, as for thunderstep, I might switch it out at later levels but the damage is decent and triggers heart of the storm so I'll see how it goes. There are a few attack roll spells, storm sphere and crown of stars but I can probably afford a few more, again any suggestions would be appreciated xD


I'd probably drop Thunder Step for Misty Step- the extra range is nice, but are two Sorcery Points and the extra spell level really worth 3d10 damage at that level?

I'd probably drop Lightning Bolt as well later, since you have better and more versatile options for direct damage, as well as Storm and/or Watery Sphere once you get Whirlwind. Synaptic Static is a nice option for something of similar level but with a better save (you could flavor it as impossibly loud thunder in their heads disrupting thoughts) if you want to keep damaging spells around.

Keep Tidal Wave! The variable size and prone effect are more than enough to make up for the iffy damage.

Agree with others that Absorb Elements and Counterspell are both very useful options.


Thunderstep is 90ft and misty step is 30ft, lets you bring an ally with you and it triggers heart of the storm, so i think its the better bet overall. i want to keep lightning bolt because its a good damaging spell that can be cast at a relatively low level if I start running out of higher level slots but I might drop it at some point if it becomes redundant, same goes for storm/watery sphere. I'll definitely look into synaptic static and absorb elements, counterspell is handled though.


I would find a wee way to pick up hypnotic pattern. The bang for your buck on that spell is fantastic. My storm sorcerer describes it as being like the Arura borealis.

This is a freakin amazing idea and I am stealing it!


What are your metamagics? You want to build around your metamagics quite a lot. You also want spells that allow you to be close to the enemy where your AOE and flying bonus action can be used. Storm sorcerers don't have the innate tools to do their role and multiclassing a couple levels of fighter, cleric, or paladin really helps get the defenses they need to use their abilities.

Despite being a squishy caster, sorcerers want to be up close for their AOE and battlefield repositioning, and they even want to get hit for storms fury to proc. If you are going pure blaster these abilities will often go unused. Its a problem with the archtype, but you can try to work around it a bit with your spells.


Quickened and Empowered metamagic at level 3, then either careful, subtle, heightened or twinned at higher levels (I'm still undetermined) and the DM has said that they probably won't allow multiclassing for this campaign, which I think is fair, especially as they allow us to train for weapon, armor and skill proficiencies during downtime. Any advice on playing the class/archetype would be appreciated.


I also run an elemental themed sorceror and your spell picks are very similar to my own.

Yes, in an internet type forum, people will want to emphasize certain spells or highlight the superiority of some over others.

But there is a joy from following a theme, and sometimes using spells thatbare not “upper tier” can lead to a better understanding of different applications of those spells.

I recently began using tidal wave on another character, and it’s great. Good range, a very adjustable aoe (which means I can use it more), and a great rider which is capitalized on by the teams heavy hitters.

Storm Sphere is solid extra damage, and upscales really well.

Watery Sphere is a delightful control spell, and has some utility as well. Our group has used it to defeat more than a few traps and obstacles.

Whirlwind is amazing, and people used to talk about how broken it is.

Crown of stars is solid too.

I think you have a solid set up my fellow Sorceror.

Thanks xD I'm really not looking to be "upper tier" or anything but I've been burned really bad by poor spell selection before and it put me off playing full casters for quite a while, hopefully this time will be different.

[Nidgit]

Thunderstep is 90ft and misty step is 30ft, lets you bring an ally with you and it triggers heart of the storm, so i think its the better bet overall. i want to keep lightning bolt because its a good damaging spell that can be cast at a relatively low level if I start running out of higher level slots but I might drop it at some point if it becomes redundant, same goes for storm/watery sphere. I'll definitely look into synaptic static and absorb elements, counterspell is handled though.

Just a clarification, Thunderstep is great for you for most of your campaign. Once you reach Sorcerer 18 and get your fly speed, though, you can cast any spell and zip out of range without provoking OAs. At that point, Thunderstep's only real advantage over Misty Step is taking an ally with you since the range becomes pretty redundant with your 90 ft of movement and the ability to cast any other spell to trigger Tempestuous Magic .

Still, it's got nice synergy with Heart of the Storm. To each their own!

[MightyDuck]

Just a clarification, Thunderstep is great for you for most of your campaign. Once you reach Sorcerer 18 and get your fly speed, though, you can cast any spell and zip out of range without provoking OAs. At that point, Thunderstep's only real advantage over Misty Step is taking an ally with you since the range becomes pretty redundant with your 90 ft of movement and the ability to cast any other spell to trigger Tempestuous Magic .

Still, it's got nice synergy with Heart of the Storm. To each their own!

Of course xD I'll probably swap it out for dimension door or something when I get to level 18, I'll see how it goes, thanks!

[opticalshadow]

In reguards to the mental stats not fitting theme, remember you can retheme everything about a spell as long as it makes no mechanical differance.

If you want a Confuse spell to be something like a strong wave of static electricity engulfs their head and is screwing with their brain go for it, dominate person could be you manifesting the electricity that powers their body and controlling it.

get creative, theyw ay something looks, smells, sounds, all of this can be reflavored, a fireball can be a glowing green dragon that flies across the battlefield and explodes into a rainbow of flaming hearts, the levitate spell could have harmless effects such as you causing the wind itself to be causing the effect even if its just a ascetic choice, blindness could be bright bolt of lighting that flashes before them.

[MightyDuck]

In reguards to the mental stats not fitting theme, remember you can retheme everything about a spell as long as it makes no mechanical differance.

If you want a Confuse spell to be something like a strong wave of static electricity engulfs their head and is screwing with their brain go for it, dominate person could be you manifesting the electricity that powers their body and controlling it.

get creative, theyw ay something looks, smells, sounds, all of this can be reflavored, a fireball can be a glowing green dragon that flies across the battlefield and explodes into a rainbow of flaming hearts, the levitate spell could have harmless effects such as you causing the wind itself to be causing the effect even if its just a ascetic choice, blindness could be bright bolt of lighting that flashes before them.

I'll definitely do that, I really like some of the ideas for reflavoring hypnotic pattern and synaptic static from this thread, but any more suggestions and ideas would be appriciated xD

[some guy]

I would add a few more utility spells in that list, this is almost only pure damage.
Even swapping Greater Invisibility for regular Invisibility would help a lot, as the level 2 can be upcast for multiple targets and lasts 1 hour.
Depending on the campaign Disguise Self, Alter Self, Spider Climb, Dispel Magic (if there are more casters in the group, Dispel would be a better fit for them, but I'd recommend always one caster capable of casting it), Fly can all be nice utility spells, but it depends on the group composition and campaign.