Looking for input on a Shieldmaster

[Galithar]

So I'm currently designing a class for one of my players that revolves around dual wielding shields. This is for 5e but I'm not looking for concrete mechanics, just ideas and inspiration to help me with abilities.

A few things I'm decided on but unsure exactly how to implement all of them.

Half-Caster with Psionics (I am home brewing Psionics so in this instance I just mean an innate caster keyed off Intelligence. Not that I'm using a Mystic or something as a base class)
Dual wielding shields in central to the class and character
Some form of taunting ability or other means of encouraging enemies to Target through a mechanical effect rather then my whim as DM
Possibly small amounts of healing through spells or potentially a lay on hands like ability.
Battlefield control? Not actually restricting or limiting enemies actions, but control of the battlefield by manipulating positioning possibly?

Ideas that I've come up with (or poached from others) that I'd like input on whether they sound fun/useful

-Stances
- These would be things like an offensive/defensive/support stance. There would be more than a single character could learn forcing choices. I don't have concrete mechanics but I was thinking things like sacrificing movement/damage/AC etc to boost some aspect of the character or to allow the use of certain abilities. Example, you can only use a healing ability while in a defensive stance that restricts your movement speed, or you can gain +2 to AC but suffer -2 to hit. Just as quick examples off the top of my head.

-Team formation
- Rough idea here is "simulating" a shield wall. In practice it wouldn't really be a shield wall per session, but a series of benefits and drawbacks that can be extended to others within 5 feet of you that also use a shield (this would be the 3rd shield bearing character in a party of 6)
- Ideas for abilities would be things like protecting each other from OA when moving in formation (uses everyone's movement triggered on this characters turn by Bonus action, can only move willing allies)

I have more idea but no more time to post. Thanks for anyone that took the time to read my ramblings.

[miraneja]

I think you have a lot of cool ideas here, maybe a bit too many. The class doesn't seem very coherent yet, but you could try to fix this with a solid base class and some more specific subclasses. When it comes to the taunting ability there is a spell that is called something liked compelled duel that does this in a game machenic sense. You could try to use this spell and reskin it a little towards the flavor that you want. If you were to play a shieldmaster considering the ability of dealing extra bludgening damage and adding the posibility for a devensive stance may not be a bad idea. I also had another thought that you might use. You could give the shieldmaster a reaction to help protect their friends and give them a die that increases with levels (1d4 at first level, 1d6 at something like 8th level and so on) to add to their ac. It would be a unique ability that also builds upon some of the group defense you have outlined in your idea. I hope i have been of some help.

[Composer99]

Would a shieldmaster necessarily need to be its own class, or would it make sense as a fighter subclass?

You could go either way, but I think that you might want to answer that question for yourself (and your player) before working out anything further.

[Galithar]

I think you have a lot of cool ideas here, maybe a bit too many. The class doesn't seem very coherent yet, but you could try to fix this with a solid base class and some more specific subclasses. When it comes to the taunting ability there is a spell that is called something liked compelled duel that does this in a game machenic sense. You could try to use this spell and reskin it a little towards the flavor that you want. If you were to play a shieldmaster considering the ability of dealing extra bludgening damage and adding the posibility for a devensive stance may not be a bad idea. I also had another thought that you might use. You could give the shieldmaster a reaction to help protect their friends and give them a die that increases with levels (1d4 at first level, 1d6 at something like 8th level and so on) to add to their ac. It would be a unique ability that also builds upon some of the group defense you have outlined in your idea. I hope i have been of some help.

I agree that it's not very coherent... Yet. :P I'm still gathering ideas a bit. I like the idea of protecting allies with a reaction, but honestly my players have such high AC that I think I'd rather see it as a damage reduction like the Ancestral Barbarian rather then AC boosts. I'd rather give it as an at will as well, which I think plays better as damage reduction then AC increase (it would make the party Monk's standard 22 AC in combat even harder to hit [18+2 Kensei ability+2 Shield of Faith from the Cleric])



Would a shieldmaster necessarily need to be its own class, or would it make sense as a fighter subclass?

You could go either way, but I think that you might want to answer that question for yourself (and your player) before working out anything further.

Yes it needs to be it's own class because it would not make sense to try to take a mainly DPR class and turn it into a CC/Tank class. It would be adding too many things to an existing class, and/or be lacking too many of the requisite features to be more interesting then just playing a fighter.

If anything this could be built as a Paladin Oathv though I'd rather it be a full class because there are things from Paladins it shouldn't have (see for example)

[KittenMagician]

i had always thought that a two shield wielder would be something fantastic. as far as the defensive/offensive/support stance thing maybe that can be the subclasses to chose. your offensive subclass can be Juggernaut (or something else) and have it be a heavily armored guy that charges straight into enemies to try and knock them over (like the X-Men charactrer ["CHOO-CHOO!! Here comes the pain train!"]) and the defensive guy might have an ability like a one man shield wall that gives 3/4 cover to those behind him (he picks a facing and his square and the squares to either side of him are the wall and going through it with attacks provides cover.)

i dont think this class should be half-caster. every class is caster or half-caster already except barbarian, rogue, and fighter (rogue and fighter can become half-casters depending on subclass) ithink you could get more from this class and have it feel more unique if it didnt cast spells. you could give it abilities that maybe did spell like effects (such as compel duel)

i dont have anything particular for a support guy but im willing to work things out for this class to work cause i would like to use it as well.

if you need help with it just let me know.

[Galithar]

i had always thought that a two shield wielder would be something fantastic. as far as the defensive/offensive/support stance thing maybe that can be the subclasses to chose. your offensive subclass can be Juggernaut (or something else) and have it be a heavily armored guy that charges straight into enemies to try and knock them over (like the X-Men charactrer ["CHOO-CHOO!! Here comes the pain train!"]) and the defensive guy might have an ability like a one man shield wall that gives 3/4 cover to those behind him (he picks a facing and his square and the squares to either side of him are the wall and going through it with attacks provides cover.)

i dont think this class should be half-caster. every class is caster or half-caster already except barbarian, rogue, and fighter (rogue and fighter can become half-casters depending on subclass) ithink you could get more from this class and have it feel more unique if it didnt cast spells. you could give it abilities that maybe did spell like effects (such as compel duel)

i dont have anything particular for a support guy but im willing to work things out for this class to work cause i would like to use it as well.

if you need help with it just let me know.

Thanks for the input. I would normally agree that a non-caster would be best for this; however, I'm creating this as a request from one of my players and casting is something he wants. Maybe we could work together to create a non-casting Shieldmaster at the same time though?

I like the idea of using the 'stances' as the subclass, but my original idea was to grant some versatility to the class. It's often very easy for certain enemies (flying, spellcasting, save targeting, teleporting etc etc) to bypass a traditional 'tank' type character. So while a defensive archetype is the goal they need either lots of defensive tricks (which could become a balance issue) or other tricks up their sleeve. I thought being and to switch from 'I'm a glorified fighter with two shields' when they need damage, to 'You'll have an easier time killing a barbarian' (okay... Maybe not THAT extreme lol), to 'My allies need backup' would be more fun to play. Obviously I don't want them to be amazing at all of these things but being about to make modifications to their strategy mid combat (probably at the cost of bonus action) sounded like a good place to go with it, though it may turn out to not work well once I get real numbers on paper.

[KittenMagician]

Thanks for the input. I would normally agree that a non-caster would be best for this; however, I'm creating this as a request from one of my players and casting is something he wants. Maybe we could work together to create a non-casting Shieldmaster at the same time though?

I like the idea of using the 'stances' as the subclass, but my original idea was to grant some versatility to the class. It's often very easy for certain enemies (flying, spellcasting, save targeting, teleporting etc etc) to bypass a traditional 'tank' type character. So while a defensive archetype is the goal they need either lots of defensive tricks (which could become a balance issue) or other tricks up their sleeve. I thought being and to switch from 'I'm a glorified fighter with two shields' when they need damage, to 'You'll have an easier time killing a barbarian' (okay... Maybe not THAT extreme lol), to 'My allies need backup' would be more fun to play. Obviously I don't want them to be amazing at all of these things but being about to make modifications to their strategy mid combat (probably at the cost of bonus action) sounded like a good place to go with it, though it may turn out to not work well once I get real numbers on paper.

Well one option would be kinda the opposite of an intimidating shout like that in the berserker sub class of barbarian and instead of making them afraid you taunt the crap out of them. make them roll a wisdom save or become enraged and attack only you sort of thing. i would advise looking into real life history shield formations for your stances (such as turtle formation, shield wall, porcupine [which is similar to turtle], etc) and i think they may suffer at range much as barbarians and paladins do

im gonna start writing up some base stuff like skills and proficiency stuff and the like and see what you think. get back to you later

[Galithar]

Okay, so this class took some pretty big twists as I was working it out. This is totally not something that I would normally do, but I was struggling to appropriately separate the base class and the sub-class. Since I was making them at the same time, and this was a project for a friend playing in my game I decided to just make a version that didn't have a sub-class. It's a full class in one package and I know that's not the standard for 5e, but it's what I was able to come up with for this one.

I will refine it later as a Shield Bearer sub-class on my own Psionic homebrewed base class, but for now this will let my player get some of these abilities to my table for some play test time.
It is currently missing a spell list for the class. This is because I haven't created one, and in the final version it will probably be a non-casting class. All spells will be replaced with Psionic abilities. This one was built as a half-caster because that's what my friend wanted to play, and I was making it for him.

P.E.A.C.H away!

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SyMykFz74 (Psionic Shield Bearer)


Some ideas, like the stances got blown away entirely as I couldn't figure out how to make them useful and balanced with the fact that they are a caster class. I might make another that goes more of the martial route with shield stances etc. that I was originally wanting to go before my player asked for casting abilities.

[KittenMagician]

Okay, so this class took some pretty big twists as I was working it out. This is totally not something that I would normally do, but I was struggling to appropriately separate the base class and the sub-class. Since I was making them at the same time, and this was a project for a friend playing in my game I decided to just make a version that didn't have a sub-class. It's a full class in one package and I know that's not the standard for 5e, but it's what I was able to come up with for this one.

I will refine it later as a Shield Bearer sub-class on my own Psionic homebrewed base class, but for now this will let my player get some of these abilities to my table for some play test time.
It is currently missing a spell list for the class. This is because I haven't created one, and in the final version it will probably be a non-casting class. All spells will be replaced with Psionic abilities. This one was built as a half-caster because that's what my friend wanted to play, and I was making it for him.

P.E.A.C.H away!

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SyMykFz74 (Psionic Shield Bearer)


Some ideas, like the stances got blown away entirely as I couldn't figure out how to make them useful and balanced with the fact that they are a caster class. I might make another that goes more of the martial route with shield stances etc. that I was originally wanting to go before my player asked for casting abilities.


the link doesnt work