coming up with a character concept

[Pyramid Pug]

Sup folks, hope everyone is having a great day.

Been bouncing ideas with a friend of mine and came to the conclusion I want to retire my current character. We’ve reached a point in the campaign I feel would provide a good parting way. I simply have not been having fun story and mechanics wise with it, and atempts to change haven’t been met with sucess.

My problem is that I’m at a bit of a loss as to what to play as for a new character. I’ve been tryin’ to balance out what I want to play with the needs of the party.

The party is currently a barbarian/fighter (8/1) and a rogue/fighter (8/1) as well.

The deficit is somewhat obvious, ranged options and spellcasting. Plus I wasn’t too keen on playin’ an overly complicated character. The obvious solution would be a celestial tomelock, but I’m already playin’ that on another campaign (and I’m not keen on having a character reliant on third parties for his powers again.). Bards don’t apeal to me TBH.

I’ve considered a ranger/fighter, but that’s reliant on ammo and doesn’t have as much utility. Sorcerers are limited in their options and right now my party has quite a bit of stuff that needs shoring up.

So I figured.. how about a wizard.. okay it’s not a “simple” characters, but it would give utility, ranged bakoom and ritual casting.

So, besides further advice on classes that might also shore up on what I mentioned before (because I’m not deadset on anything just yet), I got two questions regarding the wizard.

1) How would you folks go about making an investigative kind of wizard? Our party got falsely accused of stuff we didn’t do (twice in quick sucession, we suspect a tiefling capable of polymorphs/alter self), so a good way to tie in a new character would be for him to be a detective of sorts investigating what’s up.

2) My DM is prone to... huh... compromise... character abilities, so how to go about protecting and backing up a spell book? What kind of tricks would you folks use? Is there a way to have the book in a warp space of sorts? The party is currently at lvl 9 so I assume the new character would be this as well.

That about it folks.. I kinda like the idea of a gumshoe gnome detective lol

---Edit----

This is what I get for posting at the end of my shift (don't tell my boss!!). I forgot to mention the character I'm parking is a cleric, so I'd like to avoid that class as well. 😑

[qube]

iare a "tribal" character, ask the DM if you can tatoo your spells on your body (in 3.5 (or was it 3.0?), there used to be a variant of this, incl. rules how many pages could be written on each body part)

[CTurbo]

Light Cleric would be great. You'd add blasting, healing, and some utility immediately. The 5e Cleric is pretty strong, and is much more than just a heal bot.

[Trustypeaches]

First off if your characters are level 9, then you’re far past the point where limited ammo has any bearing on a Bow/Crossbow user’s performance.

Second off, if you’re looking to player an “investigative” spellcaster I’d recommend the Knowledge Cleric. They get expertise in knowledge skills, variable proficiency, and a channel divinity perfect for social encounters where you need to discern someone’s true motives and possibly manipulate them (low-cost suggestions are awesome).

Alternatively, you could go Wizard and take a single level dip into Knowledge Cleric for a lot of the same goodies.

[Pyramid Pug]

iare a "tribal" character, ask the DM if you can tatoo your spells on your body (in 3.5 (or was it 3.0?), there used to be a variant of this, incl. rules how many pages could be written on each body part)

Ooh boy.. better put some points into dexterity then, gonna need that flexibility 😂


=CTurbo;23629036]Light Cleric would be great. You'd add blasting, healing, and some utility immediately. The 5e Cleric is pretty strong, and is much more than just a heal bot.


First off if your characters are level 9, then you’re far past the point where limited ammo has any bearing on a Bow/Crossbow user’s performance.

Second off, if you’re looking to player an “investigative” spellcaster I’d recommend the Knowledge Cleric. They get expertise in knowledge skills, variable proficiency, and a channel divinity perfect for social encounters where you need to discern someone’s true motives and possibly manipulate them (low-cost suggestions are awesome).

Alternatively, you could go Wizard and take a single level dip into Knowledge Cleric for a lot of the same goodies.

Yeah folks, my bad, forgot to mention the character I'm retiring is a cleric so I'd like to avoid that class as well.

Also the reason I mentioned the ammo is 'cause my DM seems to enjoy throwing curveballs like that. "Oh your character is specialised in bow/xbow? Would be a shame if somethin' happened to your ammo.."

Granted, a creative DM can do that to any class (Rock falls, hits your barbarian on the head, he forgot how to barb), but I'd like to avoid tempting fate as it were 😅

[CTurbo]

Yeah Knowledge Cleric 1/Abjuration Wizard X would be great! Go Deep Gnome and take the Svirfneblin feat.

[Finback]

OK, so, this is more for interesting flavour - what about a druid? I don't know the "setting" but if it's more investigative, I'm thinking an urban area. So why not talk to the DM about reflavouring your druid to being an urban one? Maybe the urban bounty hunter background - you use your animal skills to track and follow your quarry, even in places a normal (insert race here) can't go - but as a rat, pigeon or cat, you can get into places where you won't even be noticed.

You could even just splash a bit of druid/moon for the low level CR creatures like the above, and spend the rest in, say, rogue, and go inquisitive?

[Azgeroth]

divination wizard, sage background, rock gnome/high elf.

take the keen mind or observant feat, skills should be arcana, history, religion, investigation, nature.

if you need help with spell selection just give a shout, as for spell book shenanigans there is an entire thread from not long ago on the very topic.. to sum it up.

1. speak to your DM, can your familiar carry your spell book? can it take it back to its little locket dimension with it?

2. get a strongbox, wooden, good lock, have it lined with lead, then another metal box, keep your book in there, and keep it hidden. also, afix some patch with a symbol, so you can always locate the box if needed. (use a patch so you can easily change the symbol if needed)

3. dont have a spell book, instead have it all scrawled on loose pieces of paper, and distribute those about your person/party.

4. make sure you have a backup spell book, (see 3) it doesn't have to be a complete copy, as long as it has your staple spells, including those needed to locate your primary book. keep this with some trusted NPC, or buried somewhere remote, securely (see 2)

edit :

5. just thought of this one! illusory script! make your spell book the most mundane looking book ever imagined, scribe all your spells using illusory script, so it reads as some really terrible crime drama novel, and only you can see the real writing. Seperately, keep another book, that totally looks like a spell book should, again, illusory script, but this time just fill it with jargon that will appear to everyone else as arcane research notes.. it won't hold up to scrutiny for too long, but if there some being deeply invested in your spellbook its going to be taken at some point.

[Randomthom]

Sounds like your GM likes to screw with you, I say screw right back...

First, you want to take a Halfling Divination Wizard with the Lucky feat... King of the re-rolls. (re-roll 1s on attacks and saves, 3 other re-rolls/day and 2 from divination portent that you can apply to allies/enemies). Things will go your way far more frequently than they should!

[sigfile]

I simply have not been having fun story and mechanics wise with it
What elements weren't you enjoying? That'll help us steer suggestions away from things you don't like.

Without knowing what part(s) of spellcasters don't appeal, what it is about bards you don't enjoy, and knowing that knowledge cleric is off the table, I'd encourage taking a look at the Lore Bard. You're good at everything. You make a fantastic investigator (expertise), you're an ideal party face, you have amazing versatility for dealing with groups of ranged opponents, you can still bust out healing when the party needs it, and everyone just heals faster in general because you're around.

You can still cast from a component pouch, so you don't even need to worry about the musical instrument focus if you want to ignore the performance side of the class entirely, but I'd encourage against that. Embrace it and work it in to the detective angle. Take proficiency with drums and, as a quirk, have your gnome rhythmically drum his fingers or tap on nearby surfaces to help him focus his mind.

[Pyramid Pug]

Yeah Knowledge Cleric 1/Abjuration Wizard X would be great! Go Deep Gnome and take the Svirfneblin feat.

Hmm.. was gonna avoid cleric, but I'll give this one some thought.. well depending on how I roll obviously since that requires 13 to both wis and int (I have notoriously bad luck with rolls). I do like the extra skills + pseudo expertise..


OK, so, this is more for interesting flavour - what about a druid? I don't know the "setting" but if it's more investigative, I'm thinking an urban area. So why not talk to the DM about reflavouring your druid to being an urban one? Maybe the urban bounty hunter background - you use your animal skills to track and follow your quarry, even in places a normal (insert race here) can't go - but as a rat, pigeon or cat, you can get into places where you won't even be noticed.

You could even just splash a bit of druid/moon for the low level CR creatures like the above, and spend the rest in, say, rogue, and go inquisitive?

I kinda like that idea because druids protect ecosystems and cities do most definitely have ecosystems, and it would certainly be a different take on the class. My problem lies more in the skill set, as that would.. well.. be a scout really, which we already have in the party. Not that more sneaky folks is a bad thing, it's just that it doesn't shore up as much stuff the party is lacking.

I could work with it tho.. don't even have to sell the urban setting, could just pick deep gnome with Underdark circle and have him being someone who was hunted deep into the underdark and in order to survive, had to merge with with it more than most gnomes do.


divination wizard, sage background, rock gnome/high elf.

take the keen mind or observant feat, skills should be arcana, history, religion, investigation, nature.

if you need help with spell selection just give a shout, as for spell book shenanigans there is an entire thread from not long ago on the very topic.. to sum it up.

1. speak to your DM, can your familiar carry your spell book? can it take it back to its little locket dimension with it?

2. get a strongbox, wooden, good lock, have it lined with lead, then another metal box, keep your book in there, and keep it hidden. also, afix some patch with a symbol, so you can always locate the box if needed. (use a patch so you can easily change the symbol if needed)

3. dont have a spell book, instead have it all scrawled on loose pieces of paper, and distribute those about your person/party.

4. make sure you have a backup spell book, (see 3) it doesn't have to be a complete copy, as long as it has your staple spells, including those needed to locate your primary book. keep this with some trusted NPC, or buried somewhere remote, securely (see 2)

edit :

5. just thought of this one! illusory script! make your spell book the most mundane looking book ever imagined, scribe all your spells using illusory script, so it reads as some really terrible crime drama novel, and only you can see the real writing. Seperately, keep another book, that totally looks like a spell book should, again, illusory script, but this time just fill it with jargon that will appear to everyone else as arcane research notes.. it won't hold up to scrutiny for too long, but if there some being deeply invested in your spellbook its going to be taken at some point.

You have just opened the proverbial pandora's box my good dwarf, I do believe I shall pester you for spell selection shenanigans indeed. That said..

I'm more inclined to pick Gnome yes (don't really fancy elves TBH), but any reason for Rock other than the +1 to con? Mechanic wise I fancy the deep one more, plus the whole unseen and undetected sound more useful for an investigator.

1- I'd like to avoid that.. my DM likes to screw with stuff like that. As an example, on another campaign when my Celestial Warlock hit lvl 3 I picked tome and the ritual casting invocation with Find Familiar. On the next session I went to buy the mats for the spell and not only did the DM decide the vendor would try to bamboozle me (by overcharging), he also decided the spell needed some algae, which the seller didn't had. I've hit lvl 4 a couple sessions ago and I still haven't gotten the algae. Good thing I didn't pick Pact of the Chain lol

2/4/5- Sounds like a good idea, but how would one go about hiding it if we need to be mobile? Although.. how does this sound (and this goes well with nº5 AND being a Rock Gnome).. Have the box yes, with those bells and whistles and the fake book inside it, and have the real book (or back up book) being inscribed in a series of mechanical panels in the box. In a sense, have the box being the book itself. Could also combine that with the illusory script shenanigans. Nº3 sounds like a recipe for disaster tho lol.

Ya know.. for folks who can create separate dimensions and whole mansions out of nothing, you'd think they have a way to "warp storage" their most precious resource for safe keeping and ease of access..


Sounds like your GM likes to screw with you, I say screw right back...

First, you want to take a Halfling Divination Wizard with the Lucky feat... King of the re-rolls. (re-roll 1s on attacks and saves, 3 other re-rolls/day and 2 from divination portent that you can apply to allies/enemies). Things will go your way far more frequently than they should!

As a former blue MtG player, I thought of that and was OH so tempted.. "You won't do it, I won't let it, it won't pass!" 🤣

[Malifice]

I know you didnt want Sorcerer, but your party is screaming out for a Divine Soul Sorcerer.

Take all 9 levels in Sorcerer, or for a slightly more blasty ranged type, try Celestial (fits the fluff) Warlock 2/ Divine Soul Sorcerer 7.

Aasimar fits the fluff (and has the right stats). Protector works (healing, flight, nova burst)

Going the Sorlock option gives you good ranged blasting (EB), good Nova potential (Quickened spells/ Twinned spells), plus it lets you fill in as both the parties cleric (cherry pick the divine spells you want from Cleric list as a Divine soul) and the parties Wizard/ blaster (cherry pick the best Sorcerer spells).

Your barbarian and Rogue will love being twin hasted.

The Rogue gets to use the free Attack action from Haste to make a single attack (with sneak attack) and then can use his 'actual' normal Action to take the Ready action (attack; trigger, start of the next creatures turn). This enables him to make 2/sneak attacks per round.

For Sorlock, I'd look at the following spell load out (9):

Cure wounds (for free, from Divine Soul), Banishment, Revivify, Fireball, Haste, Counterspell, Misty step, Shield, Absorb elements, plus Hex, Hellish Rebuke and Armor of Agathys from Warlock.

Cantrips are Eldritch blast, Greenflame blade, Light (Aasimar) and whatever else you want.

Invocations are Agonizing blast, and one of your choice.

You want Quicken and Twin for your metamagic options.

You can heal and bring your comrades back from the dead (Aasimar ability, Cure wounds, Revivify), blast (Fireball, Eldritch blast + quicken spell [eldritch blast]), manouver around the place (flight from Aasimar, misty step elsewhere and then EB the target) have solid defensive buffs (Shield, light armor from 'lock, absorb elements, counterspell, armor of agathys), have an excellent Save or Suck on 1 or 2 priority targets (twinned banishment) and also can buff (twinned Haste). Hellish rebuke ensures your DM will be reluctant to target you (you can shield, absorb elements, counterspell it, or hellish rebuke if it lands).

[Vogie]

I'd do a Chain Warlock with a 5 level dip in Bard. With your emphasis on utility, I'd say you should be an Archfey, Seeker (if UA is allowed), or GOO warlock, in that order. What that does is gives you a host of utility abilities, while you act as a blaster from the back.

You can deliver touch spells at range via your invisible familiar, and which can scout for miles. The dip into bard gives you Song of Rest for spell-slot-less OOC healing, Vicious Mockery for ranged disruption that costs no resources, Bardic Inspirations to spend your Bonus actions on rather than things that take spell slots, more spell slots, and even more utility spells. You can prevent wipes by tossing out a healing word, but only when an ally hits the dust, as you won't have the power to keep everyone topped off.

Start with Warlock if you want Prof to Wisdom throws, Start Bard if you'd rather have Prof to Dexterity (for saving throws and Initiative).

For Colleges, you'll probably choose Lore or Valor. Lore gives the cutting words ability, while Valor gives you Medium Armor and gives the ability to augment your martial characters with the Inspiration dice.

You won't want more levels in bard than 5, so your inspirations refresh on short rest. The exception is if you have chosen Lore (and you want magical secrets at 6). The rest of your level growth would be in warlock, collecting invocations, empowering your EB spell and offensive spells.

If you don't want to start there, Another option is Warlock 6 /Bard 2. You lose the Expertise, college, and Short Rest Inspirations, but you will have more power and be incredibly hard to kill due to misty visions.



If you want another, other type of build that's fairly similar, Try Arcane Archer 5 / War Wizard 3. You'd get Ranged smites that recur on short rests, while the versatility of a wizard's buffs, protecting yourself with Arcane Deflection. After you hit AA 7 (so missing is a thing of the past), pour the rest of the levels into wizard for both damage and utility

[Laserlight]

I played Sherlock Gnomes as Knowledge cleric 1 / Divination wizard the rest. Worked quite well.

[Man_Over_Game]

Sup folks, [...]

The deficit is somewhat obvious, ranged options and spellcasting. Plus I wasn’t too keen on playin’ an overly complicated character. The obvious solution would be a celestial tomelock, but I’m already playin’ that on another campaign (and I’m not keen on having a character reliant on third parties for his powers again.). Bards don’t apeal to me TBH.

[...] I forgot to mention the character I'm parking is a cleric, so I'd like to avoid that class as well. ��


I'd do a Chain Warlock with a 5 level dip in Bard.

lol, make sure to read the OP, guys.

I do like Vogie's suggestion for an Arcane Archer + Wizard. It's simple, focused around ranged attacks, and does what it does very well.

[Pyramid Pug]

What elements weren't you enjoying? That'll help us steer suggestions away from things you don't like.

Without knowing what part(s) of spellcasters don't appeal, what it is about bards you don't enjoy, and knowing that knowledge cleric is off the table, I'd encourage taking a look at the Lore Bard. You're good at everything. You make a fantastic investigator (expertise), you're an ideal party face, you have amazing versatility for dealing with groups of ranged opponents, you can still bust out healing when the party needs it, and everyone just heals faster in general because you're around.

You can still cast from a component pouch, so you don't even need to worry about the musical instrument focus if you want to ignore the performance side of the class entirely, but I'd encourage against that. Embrace it and work it in to the detective angle. Take proficiency with drums and, as a quirk, have your gnome rhythmically drum his fingers or tap on nearby surfaces to help him focus his mind.

First of all I got a confession to make. I'm going at this from the wrong mindset thinking constantly about what I don't like and what I want to avoid rather than what would I enjoy. I know this negative mindset of mine all to well from my own artwork which invariably led to frustration and art block. It's not conductive to either enjoyment or productivity.

That said and in response, no matter how you cut it, bards are intrinsically linked to the whole music thing, plus they're keyed to charisma which is somethin' I don't really want to go into. If I were to remake the class, I'd frame it as "Adventurer" instead, more of a generalist, with maybe bard as a subclass. I don't really like the flavour of the class ("of course it's a bard.. it's ALWAYS a bard.." has become somewhat of a staple of mine in our sessions).

I don't deny the class effectiveness and I certainly have fun playing with folks that play Bards themselves "wait.. did.. did you just tried to seduce a skeleton?!", but I myself don't fancy playing them.

The cleric part.. well the character I want to retire is a cleric, so I'd like to play with somethin' different. Plus there were several..events in our sessions that left me a bit taken aback. Basically my DM suddenly went "Okay so you're a cleric, then the actions your party members do will reflect upon you if I deem them evil and you don't do anything to stop them" (while not giving me any signs and ignoring all my spells, skills and backgrounds that could have prevented that situation). If that's the sort of party dynamic he wants out of a cleric, then I don't want to play as one. I want to have fun with my mates as an equal, not being held responsible for their actions, especially if the entirety of my character powers is dependant on that whim.

Been gaming with him and my other mate for over 20 years now, and this was the first of this kind he pulled on me, and it wasn't something I either enjoyed or want.

[Azgeroth]

i suggested rock gnome simply because it fits the idea better than forest, but yes deep gnome is also a good choice.

yeah if your DM likes to screw with you alot, No1 is probably a no go..

as for hiding the box, stuff it into the bottom of your pack, and only take it out when your alone. otherwise, try and get a good repour with a captain of the guard, and have him look after it for you, tell him it contains your great grand fathers ashes or something (for your spare book)

yes you could scribe your spells on to panels of the box, but that is a LOT of panels..

if you decide on wizard let me know and ill help with the spell selection :)

[Man_Over_Game]

To avoid any kind of shenanigans, I'd really recommend Sorcerer of some kind. They can be incredibly simple, they work well with attacking teammates (with something like Twinned Haste), and trying to cripple them via some narrative BS is nearly impossible.

Likely, it sounds like your DM is trying to draw favor for non-magical classes by creating a balance concept in the narrative, and making a Druid/Wizard/Warlock/Cleric/Paladin all have something tied into their magical powers that the DM can use against you. The Sorcerer is innately magical, and the worst thing I could see is if your DM brought in an Anti-magic field of some kind and said it hurt you, which would be a severe slap in the face.

Use the Charisma as egoistic confidence vs. social aptitude. He knows he's better, he knows he's powerful, and he'll make sure that you agree.

Divine Soul is what the party needs, but it still has that Godly factor, so I'd say virtually any Sorcerer would fit what you're looking for.

[Malifice]

I played Sherlock Gnomes as Knowledge cleric 1 / Divination wizard the rest. Worked quite well.

Surely Sherlock Gnomes is an Inquisitive Rogue?

Also; ten points for the name.

[Pyramid Pug]

I know you didnt want Sorcerer, but your party is screaming out for a Divine Soul Sorcerer.

Take all 9 levels in Sorcerer, or for a slightly more blasty ranged type, try Celestial (fits the fluff) Warlock 2/ Divine Soul Sorcerer 7.

Aasimar fits the fluff (and has the right stats). Protector works (healing, flight, nova burst)

Going the Sorlock option gives you good ranged blasting (EB), good Nova potential (Quickened spells/ Twinned spells), plus it lets you fill in as both the parties cleric (cherry pick the divine spells you want from Cleric list as a Divine soul) and the parties Wizard/ blaster (cherry pick the best Sorcerer spells).

Your barbarian and Rogue will love being twin hasted.

The Rogue gets to use the free Attack action from Haste to make a single attack (with sneak attack) and then can use his 'actual' normal Action to take the Ready action (attack; trigger, start of the next creatures turn). This enables him to make 2/sneak attacks per round.

For Sorlock, I'd look at the following spell load out (9):

Cure wounds (for free, from Divine Soul), Banishment, Revivify, Fireball, Haste, Counterspell, Misty step, Shield, Absorb elements, plus Hex, Hellish Rebuke and Armor of Agathys from Warlock.

Cantrips are Eldritch blast, Greenflame blade, Light (Aasimar) and whatever else you want.

Invocations are Agonizing blast, and one of your choice.

You want Quicken and Twin for your metamagic options.

You can heal and bring your comrades back from the dead (Aasimar ability, Cure wounds, Revivify), blast (Fireball, Eldritch blast + quicken spell [eldritch blast]), manouver around the place (flight from Aasimar, misty step elsewhere and then EB the target) have solid defensive buffs (Shield, light armor from 'lock, absorb elements, counterspell, armor of agathys), have an excellent Save or Suck on 1 or 2 priority targets (twinned banishment) and also can buff (twinned Haste). Hellish rebuke ensures your DM will be reluctant to target you (you can shield, absorb elements, counterspell it, or hellish rebuke if it lands).

Oh I don't mind sorcerer, considered it in fact. I especially like it's independence on external stuff, plus the warlock dip gives a reliable ranged at will. My only beef would be in the form of limited utility spells like the several ritual stuff the wizard can get, especially for OOC stuff. The detect magics, the identifies, the mansions on demand, scries, teleports, unlimited subscription to Miss Wizardly with special centerfold options and so on. :smallbiggrin:


I'd do a Chain Warlock with a 5 level dip in Bard. With your emphasis on utility, I'd say you should be an Archfey, Seeker (if UA is allowed), or GOO warlock, in that order. What that does is gives you a host of utility abilities, while you act as a blaster from the back.

You can deliver touch spells at range via your invisible familiar, and which can scout for miles. The dip into bard gives you Song of Rest for spell-slot-less OOC healing, Vicious Mockery for ranged disruption that costs no resources, Bardic Inspirations to spend your Bonus actions on rather than things that take spell slots, more spell slots, and even more utility spells. You can prevent wipes by tossing out a healing word, but only when an ally hits the dust, as you won't have the power to keep everyone topped off.

Start with Warlock if you want Prof to Wisdom throws, Start Bard if you'd rather have Prof to Dexterity (for saving throws and Initiative).

For Colleges, you'll probably choose Lore or Valor. Lore gives the cutting words ability, while Valor gives you Medium Armor and gives the ability to augment your martial characters with the Inspiration dice.

You won't want more levels in bard than 5, so your inspirations refresh on short rest. The exception is if you have chosen Lore (and you want magical secrets at 6). The rest of your level growth would be in warlock, collecting invocations, empowering your EB spell and offensive spells.

If you don't want to start there, Another option is Warlock 6 /Bard 2. You lose the Expertise, college, and Short Rest Inspirations, but you will have more power and be incredibly hard to kill due to misty visions.



If you want another, other type of build that's fairly similar, Try Arcane Archer 5 / War Wizard 3. You'd get Ranged smites that recur on short rests, while the versatility of a wizard's buffs, protecting yourself with Arcane Deflection. After you hit AA 7 (so missing is a thing of the past), pour the rest of the levels into wizard for both damage and utility

I.. didn't fancy the AA much TBH.. did consider an EK/Ranger with bonded bow and throwing knife at one point tho.. was gonna harp about being MAD, but that will happen regardless with any MC involving Wizards are they're the only ones that key to Int lol :smallbiggrin:


I played Sherlock Gnomes as Knowledge cleric 1 / Divination wizard the rest. Worked quite well.

Yeh, I'm inclined to that as well, seems like a fun concept :smallbiggrin:

[Malifice]

Oh I don't mind sorcerer, considered it in fact. I especially like it's independence on external stuff, plus the warlock dip gives a reliable ranged at will. My only beef would be in the form of limited utility spells like the several ritual stuff the wizard can get, especially for OOC stuff. The detect magics, the identifies, the mansions on demand, scries, teleports, unlimited subscription to Miss Wizardly with special centerfold options and so on. :smallbiggrin:

Easily fixed with your 4th level Feat - take Ritual Caster (Wizard).

[Trustypeaches]

Sounds like your GM likes to screw with you, I say screw right back...

First, you want to take a Halfling Divination Wizard with the Lucky feat... King of the re-rolls. (re-roll 1s on attacks and saves, 3 other re-rolls/day and 2 from divination portent that you can apply to allies/enemies). Things will go your way far more frequently than they should!Fostering an antagonistic relationship with your DM is never a good idea.

[Trustypeaches]

Also the reason I mentioned the ammo is 'cause my DM seems to enjoy throwing curveballs like that. "Oh your character is specialised in bow/xbow? Would be a shame if somethin' happened to your ammo.."
If a DM is determined to “curveball” you they could do it to any class.

Taking away a caster’s arcane focus / component pouch prevents them from using any spells that require material components they don’t have. Taking away a Fighters Weapon limits them to Unarmed Attacks and improvised weapons.

I don’t think a Ranger would be more prone to this bullcrap than any other class. Besides, all of a Rangers features short of Fighting Style work with both ranged and melee weaponry.

[Vogie]

lol, make sure to read the OP, guys.


I offered builds with a bard dip, sure. That's quite different than BARD!!!! Even if the OP wanted to play a non-healing character, with their current party composition, a 2 level dip in bard would be incredibly useful for Song of Rest and throwing inspiration around. You don't dip into that class to be specifically good at anything.

[Man_Over_Game]

I offered builds with a bard dip, sure. That's quite different than BARD!!!! Even if the OP wanted to play a non-healing character, with their current party composition, a 2 level dip in bard would be incredibly useful for Song of Rest and throwing inspiration around. You don't dip into that class to be specifically good at anything.

Eh, to be fair, he also said he didn't want to repeat the Warlock either, and wanted to go towards something new that didn't rely on a third party for his powers (like a patron). I don't think it's a bad idea, it's just everything he's avoiding.

I do agree that 2 levels of Bard is just enough healing to help the team get by, but it is hard to create a full concept of a character that supports his team, using Charisma, that doesn't like to interact with people.

[Particle_Man]

I would say divination wizard but a mountain dwarf, as if your dm is going to screw with your spellbook they are likely to have monsters that know to attack the "squishy one in the dress". Armor is sweet!

For spellbooks, I dunno. Multiple copies in multiple places, perhaps?

But if the DM is that much of a threat, maybe sorcerer instead?

[Pyramid Pug]

Thanks for indulging and boucin’ ideas with me folks.

So far I’m liking both the “Sherlock Gnomes” idea of a divination wizard with maybe a dip in knowledge cleric, as well as the sorcerer idea.

The Divine Soul/ aasimar... okay I know the party needs healing but I’m tired of it. I spent 8 years running healers of one sort or another, and even with the party knowing that healing in D&D ain’t like in MMO’s, there’s always this unspoken expectation of me saving resources “just in case” someone goes down. With the celestial warlock on my other campaign it ain’t so bad ‘cause the healing is a dice pool separated from my other resources and the cure wounds auto-scales and bounces back on short rests, but with a divine soul I’d actively loose cool stuff from other origins like the draconic riders or stuff like damage resistances/immunities and whatnot.

Plus I don’t really fancy Tiefs and Aasis, was never much into the whole angel/demon/nephilim offspring thingie. I find gnomes, kenkus, dwarfs, minotaurs, goblins and so on to be more interesting and funny TBH.

The wizard part.. well.. the pros are the ritual casting and the amount of OOC shenanigans I can do with spells since I’m not as limited in spell selection as I am with a sorcerer, tho I assume that can be circumvented as I wouldn’t need 3000 blasting spells with a sorcerer. Con is obviously the rauncy doodle book being easy to mess with leaving the character powerless. Yes I know “A fighter can have his weapons taken out”, but he still has his 1d10 hp pool, his action surge, second wind, his feats, extra attacks plus weapons are admiteddly easier to find than spellbooks (and pay no mind to this last one, I’m just venting now 😁)

Also, yeh I can get ritual casting as a sorcerer, but that’s spending a feat PLUS getting 13 on wis or int PLUS getting an actual book for that.

[CTurbo]

+1 on the Gnome Knowledge Cleric 1/Wizard X but I'm telling you abjuration is best! This would be a fearless investigator. Other than Portent, which is obviously very strong, the rest of Divination is just meh.