Making a dragon encounter?

[danielxcutter]

Okay...

So, I wanted to make a dragon NPC that meets the following:

#Has at least 18th-level Sorcerer casting, but I don't really need more than that.

#Not too high-CRed; about CR 25 is the highest I'm willing to go, and I'd like CR 22 or 23, if possible.

#Capable of being enough a challenge to a fairly well optimized, high-level but non-epic party, preferably both in terms of physical combat and casting spells.

Turns out Ancient Blue Dragons have less racial casting than I thought, so that didn't work... and a lot of the other options I'm looking at get CR 24~25. It's not bad; a Loredrake Great Wyrm Green Dragon Sorcerer 1 is quite powerful and currently my favorite option, but I just want to see if I can get something else done yet.

[Crake]

Steel Dragons have 19th level sorcerer casting at ancient, and are only CR15, so you can add 10 CR of other goodies ontop without bothering to ramp up their casting at all.

[danielxcutter]

Steel Dragons have 19th level sorcerer casting at ancient, and are only CR15, so you can add 10 CR of other goodies ontop without bothering to ramp up their casting at all.

Well, I'm aiming for a non-Black chromatic... also, 19th-level Sorcerer casting at CR 15? Nah...

[Goaty14]

Well, I'm aiming for a non-Black chromatic... also, 19th-level Sorcerer casting at CR 15? Nah...

What's stopping you, the DM, from refluffing an Ancient Steel Dragon as being an Ancient Chromatic dragon? What's stopping the DM from raising the CR of a monster when designing an encounter (the players won't see it anyways)?

That's right, nothing. :smallcool:

[danielxcutter]

What's stopping you, the DM, from refluffing an Ancient Steel Dragon as being an Ancient Chromatic dragon? What's stopping the DM from raising the CR of a monster when designing an encounter (the players won't see it anyways)?

That's right, nothing. :smallcool:

My conscience.

[Crake]

Well, I'm aiming for a non-Black chromatic... also, 19th-level Sorcerer casting at CR 15? Nah...

Well, if you're limiting it specifically to non-black chromatics, then... I'm assuming you want 18th level sorc casting for 9th level spells? How about instead 17th level wizard casting? A Spellhoarding loredrake wyrm blue dragon is CR23 with 17th level wizard casting, same on green is CR22, red is 24

[Uncle Pine]

Green dragons:

Wyrm, sorcerer 3: CL 18, CR 25
Great wyrm, sorcerer 1: CL 18, CR 25
Loredrake wyrm, sorcerer 1: CL 18, CR 23
Loredrake great wyrm: CL 19, CR 24


Red dragons:

Young, sorcerer 17: CL 18, CR 24
Juvenile, sorcerer 15: CL 18, CR 25
Wyrm, sorcerer 1: CL 18, CR 25
Loredrake young, sorcerer 15: CL 18, CR 22
Loredrake juvenile, sorcerer 13: CL 18, CR 23
Loredrake wyrm: CL 19, CR 24


Elder black pudding:

Fiendish half-blue dragon, sorcerer 18: CL 18, CR 25. (Note that black puddings have a -10 racial penalty to Charisma, which means that even using the elite array and starting with 15 Cha the pudding will need 14 extra points to cast 9th level sorcerer spells. Half-dragon gives +2, 18 sorcerer levels another +4, and a dope cloak an additional +6 for a total of 17, so the pudding will need to invest at least two of its six epic feats into Great Charisma)

[noob]

Dragonwrought kobold with 25 levels in sorcerer:
CR 25
Caster level 25 and have epic spells

pseudodragon with 25 levels in sorcerer
CR 25 due to rules about caster classes progressing cr at half rate when they are dissociated until they reach hd.
caster level 25 and epic spells and tons of epic feats thanks to level adjustment and hit dice making it start taking epic feats at level 16 in sorcerer.
It can also get mindsight thanks to telepathy thus having simultaneously blindsense and mindsight making it hard to fool at a short range.
It is also sealthy.
Also it gets tons of armor due to being tiny and having high dex.
The spell resistance is not a problem for that pseudodragon since it have high enough cl to beat it automatically.
And due to having hit dice and tons of levels in sorcerer it is surprisingly tough.

Dragonne with 22 levels in sorcerer
CR 24.5
even more epic feats than a pseudodragon and it have a total of 31 hd which is really high but it have less caster level and is easier to hit with touch attacks.

Monstrous Scorpion, Colossal half dragon with 22 levels in sorcerer : caster level 22 in sorcerer and so much hit dice it is entirely absurd and all the things that goes with it.(62 hd)
CR 25

Monstrous Centipede, Colossal half dragon with 26 levels in sorcerer : caster level 26 in sorcerer but less hit dice and way too easy to see and hit.
CR 25

[danielxcutter]

Well, if you're limiting it specifically to non-black chromatics, then... I'm assuming you want 18th level sorc casting for 9th level spells? How about instead 17th level wizard casting? A Spellhoarding loredrake wyrm blue dragon is CR23 with 17th level wizard casting, same on green is CR22, red is 24

Hmm... isn't Spellhoarding a Dragon Magazine thing?


Green dragons:

Wyrm, sorcerer 3: CL 18, CR 25
Great wyrm, sorcerer 1: CL 18, CR 25
Loredrake wyrm, sorcerer 1: CL 18, CR 23
Loredrake great wyrm: CL 19, CR 24


Red dragons:

Young, sorcerer 17: CL 18, CR 24
Juvenile, sorcerer 15: CL 18, CR 25
Wyrm, sorcerer 1: CL 18, CR 25
Loredrake young, sorcerer 15: CL 18, CR 22
Loredrake juvenile, sorcerer 13: CL 18, CR 23
Loredrake wyrm: CL 19, CR 24


Elder black pudding:

Fiendish half-blue dragon, sorcerer 18: CL 18, CR 25. (Note that black puddings have a -10 racial penalty to Charisma, which means that even using the elite array and starting with 15 Cha the pudding will need 14 extra points to cast 9th level sorcerer spells. Half-dragon gives +2, 18 sorcerer levels another +4, and a dope cloak an additional +6 for a total of 17, so the pudding will need to invest at least two of its six epic feats into Great Charisma)


:smallconfused:

Okay, not bad, but that last one... eh? Also, I was aiming for a true dragon, not a half dragon...


Dragonwrought kobold with 25 levels in sorcerer:
CR 25
Caster level 25 and have epic spells

pseudodragon with 25 levels in sorcerer
CR 25 due to rules about caster classes progressing cr at half rate when they are dissociated until they reach hd.
caster level 25 and epic spells and tons of epic feats thanks to level adjustment and hit dice making it start taking epic feats at level 16 in sorcerer.
It can also get mindsight thanks to telepathy thus having simultaneously blindsense and mindsight making it hard to fool at a short range.
It is also sealthy.
Also it gets tons of armor due to being tiny and having high dex.
The spell resistance is not a problem for that pseudodragon since it have high enough cl to beat it automatically.
And due to having hit dice and tons of levels in sorcerer it is surprisingly tough.

Dragonne with 22 levels in sorcerer
CR 24.5
even more epic feats than a pseudodragon and it have a total of 31 hd which is really high but it have less caster level and is easier to hit with touch attacks.

Monstrous Scorpion, Colossal half dragon with 22 levels in sorcerer : caster level 22 in sorcerer and so much hit dice it is entirely absurd and all the things that goes with it.(62 hd)
CR 25

Monstrous Centipede, Colossal half dragon with 26 levels in sorcerer : caster level 26 in sorcerer but less hit dice and way too easy to see and hit.
CR 25

:smallannoyed:

These don't count either.