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Tom Riddle
2019-01-11, 10:42 AM
So I'm an epic character who is attempting to make a custom spell of permanent fusion against any target willing or not. Also removing the stipulations about living and size difference as I am a lich trying to force a pit fiend that I have bonded to my service. I tried reading the epic handbook but it's just making my head hurt. I am a leader of my own realm and and have two years down time and 135 spell casters to help me mitigate. I just don't know where to start.

noob
2019-01-11, 11:26 AM
So I'm an epic character who is attempting to make a custom spell of permanent fusion against any target willing or not. Also removing the stipulations about living and size difference as I am a lich trying to force a pit fiend that I have bonded to my service. I tried reading the epic handbook but it's just making my head hurt. I am a leader of my own realm and and have two years down time and 135 spell casters to help me mitigate. I just don't know where to start.

you could in theory create a seed from the spell one with your mount(or from the fusion power) that does the effect of the spell or power(it is like dc10+2 times the level of the spell or maybe it was 20+2 times the level of the spell)
then you apply the permanant modifier(*5 cost)
If you want instantaneous fusion apply the instantaneous modifer after the permanant modifier(some online epic spell had the instantaneous modifier at *2 appliable on permanant spells)
Then it costs probably less than 380.
then apply the modifers to reduce the cost.
since it is instantaneous you can apply all the backlash you want since it will apply only once(so you can take up to twice your level in backlash) so you remove at least 42 to the dc from that(more if you are higher level) then you can take the 10 minutes modifer for -20 to dc then apply the ritual reduction for -135 to dc(more if they can contribute higher level spells than level 1 spells) which brings to at most 183 dc then you can complete with xp burn for the rest of the cost(assuming you have +20 in spellcraft you only need to burn 16300 xp).
If you had 70 of the ritual assistant able to contribute level 2 spells you can probably mitigate enough of the casting to only have minor loss in xp(or even none if you are ready to cast moment of prescience and wear a hat of + spellcraft before casting)

Goaty14
2019-01-11, 11:28 AM
You start by asking your DM:
1) Whether or not that kind of an epic-level spell would be allowed in the campaign.
2) What the Ad-Hoc spellcraft DC modifier is.

Then you come back and tell us the answers. Without those, anything said may well be useless.

noob
2019-01-11, 11:32 AM
You start by asking your DM:
1) Whether or not that kind of an epic-level spell would be allowed in the campaign.
2) What the Ad-Hoc spellcraft DC modifier is.

Then you come back and tell us the answers. Without those, anything said may well be useless.

I agree that the thing is that the gm will probably simpy not allow permanent fusion.

On the other hand a ring of persistance(or whatever was the name of the pathfinder ring that allows to have a spell last indefinitely) you can without epic spell give the opponent the ring and control the opponent to cast the spell "one with the horse" on a horse(and to make the ring prolongate the spell) then you cast yourself the spell one with the horse on the horse while using one ring yourself and you are now fusioned with the opponent until dispelling hits you.
But it is pathfinder content combined with 3.5 content.

Tom Riddle
2019-01-11, 12:36 PM
I have talked to my dm and he said he will allow permanent fusion as long as I can hit the spell craft DC by RAW. Ad-Hoc DC? Sorry I don't know what this means.

noob
2019-01-11, 01:21 PM
I have talked to my dm and he said he will allow permanent fusion as long as I can hit the spell craft DC by RAW. Ad-Hoc DC? Sorry I don't know what this means.

Basically no base seeds corresponds directly to the fusion psionic power.
So you have to use a new seed or use an old seed in new ways that are not in the base properties of epic spells.
Ad-hoc dc means that you guess a dc for the effect from your mind and not the rules.
For example my 20+2 times the level of the spell is an ad hoc dc for a new seed that would be based on a spell that is not yet a seed.
That dc is never written in the rules: I made that number as something that could make sense.
If your gm allows you to turn fusion into a seed then you can do permanent fusion but the dc of permanent fusion will be 10 times the dc of the seed that will be used for it.
Since you are a lich and so do not have many traits important other than your casting(and that your phylactery is probably a power of the mind) then you could probably just use transform to turn yourself into a pit fiend and animate for getting many hit dice(for representing the "add hp" part of fusion) thus having a rather close result but then you would not be able to add more hd at each time.
So Transform into an inanimate object + animate at many hit dice all together and instantaneous for getting really high hit dice on yourself(Dc before mitigation: 560+20 times hit dice of the new form) and be able to do stuff then you cast a second epic spell that is just transform into a pit fiend(Dc before mitigation if you pick no pit fiend powers:104 but if you pick pit fiend powers it have a higher dc: +20 to the dc per extraordinary or surnatural power you want from the pit fiend(keep in mind you keep all your own extraordinary powers)).
By stacking instantaneous transforms customized after each monster you can progressively get all the extraordinary powers of everything you want.