Any Advice On My Build

[tstewt1921]

So for a game we are going to start playing we are all starting as commoners and eventually being taken into apprenticeships for training and such. My character is as follows.

0 Commoner +1
1 Rogue +1 Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
2 Rogue +2
3 Rogue +3 Telling Blow
4 Rogue +4
5 Rogue +4
6 Rogue +5 Two Weapon Fighting
7 Rogue +6/+1
8 HoardStealer (1) +6/+1 Pending have looted hoard of at least 5k value
9 HoardStealer (2) +7/+2 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10 HoardStealer (3) +8/+3
11 HoardStealer (4) +9/+4
12 HoardStealer (5) +9/+4 Greater Two Weapon Fighter
13 HoardStealer (6) +10/+5
14 HoardStealer (7) +11/+6/+1
15 HoardStealer (8) +12/+7/+2 Shadow Blade
16 HoardStealer (9) +12/+7/+2
17 HoardStealer (10) +13/+8/+3


So, the character will be a Halfling, as a commoner he worked in the town library and always enjoyed reading stories of adventurers and other fantasy type books, he has never been outside the his city as he has never had the opportunity. He isn't one for "traditional" thieving and instead prefers the story that comes from creeping by a dragon and walking out with their loot.

I think the build fits him ideally for what I want him to be, but if anyone has any suggestions please let me know. I'm not trying to optimize or break the character by any means, but if you see something somewhere or suggest stopping HoardStealer at an earlier level or something to that extent let me know.

The build, feats and all have been fully approved by the DM as well.

[Zaq]

I 100% support houseruling this away, but you don’t qualify for Weapon Finesse until you have BAB +1. (Yes, this is profoundly stupid and SHOULD be changed, but it is RAW. I guess if you gain 1/2 BAB from your “level 0” and you use fractional BAB?)

Anyway, I judged the Hoardstealer round of Iron Chef last summer, so I have some opinions about the class. It’s not really very good, and it’s usually kind of a downgrade from Rogue. (The skill list in particular is really disappointing, but honestly, it doesn’t give you much as a whole.) What specific benefit are you hoping to get from Hoardstealer, and why do you feel that it’ll do more for you than Rogue (or another PrC) at that level range? You can steal hoards without the class label, and I don’t see it doing much for you.

[tstewt1921]

I 100% support houseruling this away, but you don’t qualify for Weapon Finesse until you have BAB +1. (Yes, this is profoundly stupid and SHOULD be changed, but it is RAW. I guess if you gain 1/2 BAB from your “level 0” and you use fractional BAB?)

Anyway, I judged the Hoardstealer round of Iron Chef last summer, so I have some opinions about the class. It’s not really very good, and it’s usually kind of a downgrade from Rogue. (The skill list in particular is really disappointing, but honestly, it doesn’t give you much as a whole.) What specific benefit are you hoping to get from Hoardstealer, and why do you feel that it’ll do more for you than Rogue (or another PrC) at that level range? You can steal hoards without the class label, and I don’t see it doing much for you.

I found it and thought I was interesting, my DM is subbing the spells that they get to continue rogue sneak attack progression due to him wanting a really really low magic game. I liked that it gave me extra bonuses to finding/dodging traps as well. What would you recommend instead of that?

On Weapon Finesse, we get +1 BAB from our "commoner level" it's just something he homemade and has us doing.

[tstewt1921]

Anyone have any other ideas?

[Zaq]

So if I understand you right, you're losing Hoardstealer spells and gaining Sneak Attack in its place, right? So compared to a normal Rogue, you've got similar SA, worse skills (worse number and worse list), equal (read: no) magic, and then just the PrC's other auxiliary abilities, right?

I don't think that's a winning trade for you, to be honest. The class's abilities are honestly pretty marginal and are situational at best. More Rogue will still advance Trap Sense (which, to be blunt, you're not likely to need and really isn't likely to help you that much) and will still give you Rogue special abilities (like Skill Mastery) without messing up your skill list. Consider what the class gets.

Trapfinding: You have this already.
Darkvision: It's not useless, but I'm not impressed, really. Can be mimicked with a magic item. Or just get a light source.
Spells: You traded this for Sneak Attack, which is a wash, not a gain.
Hide from Dragons: It's self-only, doesn't last as long as the actual spell, and really has very limited situations where it matters. Not impressed.
Trap Sense: 10 levels of Rogue gives you +3 already, and 10 more levels of Rogue would give another +3. It's a marginal ability in the first place: each point of it is basically saying "when you fail to find a trap and that trap either makes attack rolls or forces Reflex saves, you're 5% less likely to be affected." That's insanely specific! If you're running into that many traps, by this level range you should probably be good enough at finding them that you won't set them off much anyway. This is not worth the effort.
Deep Pockets: This is basically the class's only good ability. There were some builds that used it to hilariously obnoxious effect. That said, if you're not diving into shenanigans, it's no better than a Bag of Holding or the Hoard Gullet spell. I know you're in a low-magic game, but still.
Treasure Dowsing: It's super situational, requires you to get lucky with when you choose to activate it (unlike the rod, which is spammable), and is entirely context-dependent. Not worth the effort.
Skill Mastery: Decent ability, but Rogue gets it faster.

In exchange, you lose access to a whole bunch of skills, give up advancing your special abilities, sacrifice skill points, and probably tie up a bunch of skill points in skills you don't need. This is a bad choice, honestly.

I'd either stick with Rogue (if your game is actually low-magic enough that you haven't been scaled out of relevance by that point) or look at a PrC that does more for you. PrCs always have costs (both prereq costs and opportunity costs), but usually the benefit is better than what you gain from Hoardstealer. You could look at Assassin (if you're Evil), which would give decent spells, Death Attack (limited, but fun), and eventually the good version of Hide in Plain Sight, losing skill points. Shadowdancer would cost you bad feats to get in but would give you the good version of Hide in Plain Sight with only a single level invested. Exemplar would cost you Sneak Attack but makes you amazing at a whole bunch of skills. Whisperknife costs a whole bunch of feats (about half of which are decent) and loses a couple of skill points but offers Sneak Attack advancement on a full BAB chassis. And so on.

Basically, I've gotten an idea from your posts about what you don't want to do, but I'm still not clear what you DO want to do. Having a better idea of what's important to you will help with determining what it makes sense to advise you to do.