View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next The Scoundrel - Rogue + Spell-less Bard = Profit

2019-01-13, 04:12 AM
The Scoundrel

Hit Dice: 1d8 per scoundrel level.
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier.
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per scoundrel level after 1st.

Armor: Light armor
Weapons: Simple weapons, hand crossbows, longswords, rapiers, shortswords.
Tools: Thieves tools, a musical instrument of your choice.

Saving Throws: Dexterity, Charisma
Skills: Choose any three.

You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

(a) a rapier, (b) a longsword, or (c) any simple weapon.
(a) a shortsword and quiver of 20 arrows or (b) a shortsword
(a) a burglar's pack, (b) a dungeoneer's pack, or (c) an explorer's pack
Leather armor, a dagger, thieves tools, and an instrument you are proficient in.

The Scoundrel

Proficiency Bonus

Scoundrel's Savvy (d6), Dirty Fighter

Swift Action, Lucky Charm

Grand Reputation, Expertise

Ability Score Improvement

Scoundrel's Savvy (d8), Savvy Tactics

Uncanny Dodge


Ability Score Improvement

Reputation feature

Scoundrel's Savvy (d10), Expertise

Reliable Talent

Ability Score Improvement

Reputation feature

Endless Savvy

Scoundrel's Savvy (d12)

Ability Score Improvement

Reputation feature


Ability Score Improvement

Stroke of Luck

1/5/10/15 - Scoundrel's Savvy
You always have an eye on the door and an ear to the ground - you can react immediately to nearly any situation. You start with a number of Savvy dice equal to your Charisma modifier (a minimum of one), and regain any spent dice at the end of a short or long rest.
Some features grant another creature one of your Savvy dice. Any time within the next 10 minutes, that creature can roll the die and add the number rolled to one ability check, attack roll, or saving throw that it makes. The creature can wait until after it rolls the d20 before deciding to use the Savvy die, but must decide before the DM says whether the roll succeeds or fails. Once the Savvy die is rolled, it is spent. A creature can have only one Savvy die at a time.
You start with two features you can spend Savvy dice on:
Precision Advice: Whenever you take the Help action, you may grant a creature you are helping one of your Savvy dice.
Snappy Teamwork: As a bonus action, you may grant one of your Savvy dice to a creature within 60ft.

1 - Dirty Fighting
If you're in it, it isn't really a fair fight. Once per turn when you make an attack with advantage, you may deal additional damage equal to one of your Savvy dice. If you grant an ally Advantage on an attack roll with the Help action, you may use your reaction to apply the benefits of Dirty Fighting to that attack.

2 - Swift Action
Your incredible luck allows you to Dash, Disengage, Help, or Hide as a bonus action.

2 - Lucky Charm
When you're around, a lot of little things go well for your friends. At the end of a short rest, if you or any friendly creatures that rested near you regain hit points, they regain additional hit points equal to one of your Savvy dice.

3/9/13/17 - Grand Reputation
You're the kind of person who accumulates a lot of rumors and wild stories. Choose what kind of reputation you have - your choice gives you features at 3rd, 9th, 13th, and 17th levels.

3/10 - Expertise
Choose two of your skill proficiencies. Your skill bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of the chosen proficiencies.
At 10th level, you may choose another two skills to gain this benefit.

4/8/12/16/19 - Ability Score Improvement
You can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

5 - Savvy Tactics
When you use the Help action to aid an ally in attacking a creature, the target of that attack can be within 30 feet of you, rather than within 5 feet of you, if the target can see or hear you. In addition, whenever you or an ally rolls a 1 or 2 on a Savvy die, they may reroll it. If they do, they must keep the second result, even if it is another 1 or 2.

6 - Uncanny Dodge
When an attacker you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack's damage against you.

7 - Evasion
When you are subjected to an effect that lets you make a Dexterity saving throw to only take half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and half damage if you fail.

11 - Reliable Talent
Whenever you make an ability check that lets you add your proficiency bonus, you can treat any d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10.

14 - Endless Savvy
Whenever you or an ally would roll one of your Savvy dice, they may roll a d6 and use it instead of expending that die.

18 - Elusive
No attack roll has advantage against you while you are not incapacitated.

20 - Stroke of Luck
If your attack misses a target within range, you can turn the miss into a hit. Alternatively, if you fail an ability check, you can treat the d20 roll as a 20.
Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you complete a short or long rest.

Grand Reputations

Investing Savvy Dice: Some Reputation features require you to "invest" a number of Savvy dice; invested dice are spent and are not regained as part of a short rest. As part of a long rest, you may choose to end the investment and get that die back - otherwise, you do not regain the die.

Grand Reputation - Debutante

3 - Social Graces
You gain proficiency in Persuasion and learn two languages of your choice; if you were already proficient in Persuasion, you instead gain proficiency in another skill of your choice.
Additionally, you can unerringly mimic the speech patterns and accent of a creature that you hear speak for at least 1 minute, enabling you to pass yourself off as a native speaker of a particular land, provided that you know the language.

3 - Enticing Personality
Whenever you spend at least one minute speaking to a creature that isn't hostile to you, you may spend one of your Savvy dice. If you do, that creature must make a Wisdom save against 8 + your Proficiency modifier + your Charisma modifier or be charmed. While charmed in this way, the target idolizes you, it speaks glowingly of you to anyone who talks to it, and it hinders anyone who opposes you, although it avoids violence unless it was already inclined to fight on your behalf. This effect ends on a target after 1 hour, if it takes any damage, if you attack it, or if it witnesses you attacking or damaging any of its allies. If a target succeeds on its saving throw, the target has no hint that you tried to charm it.

9 - Charming Vulnerability
When you are targeted by an attack, while a creature within 5 feet of you is granting you cover against that attack, you can use your reaction to have the attack target that creature instead of you.
In addition, the charmed condition from Enticing Personality does not end if they take damage while defending you.

13 - Eternal Charm
You may choose to invest an additional Savvy die when using Enticing Personality - if you do, the charmed condition lasts for as long as you invest that die instead of one hour. In addition, you have advantage on Charisma (Deception), Charisma (Persuasion), and Wisdom (Insight) checks you make against creatures charmed by you.

17 - Perfect Poise
As a bonus action, you can assume a posture of inviolability for 1 minute or until you are incapacitated. For the duration, whenever any creature tries to attack you for the first time on a turn, the attacker must make a Charisma saving throw against 8 + your Proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier. On a failed save, it can't attack you on this turn, and it must choose a new target for its attack or the attack is wasted. On a successful save, it can attack you on this turn, but your allies have advantage on attack rolls against it until the start of your next turn.
Once you assume this posture, you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

Grand Reputation - Swashbuckler

3 - Fighting Style
Choose one of the following options. You can't take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if something in the game lets you choose again.
Dueling: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.
Two-Weapon Fighting: When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.

3 - Deft Duelist
Whenever you make a successful melee attack that benefits from your Dirty Fighting, you may spend and roll a Savvy die. If you do, increase your walking speed by 10 this turn, and you may use one of the following flourishes:
Defensive Flourish: Add the amount you rolled to your AC until the start of your next turn.
Mobile Flourish: You may push the creature you hit up to 5 feet away from you, plus a number of feet equal to the amount you rolled. You can then immediately use your reaction to move up to your walking speed to an unoccupied space within 5 feet of the target.
When you reach 11th level, you also add the amount you rolled on the Savvy die to any damage you dealt with that attack.

In addition, you gain an alternate way to use Dirty Fighting - you don't need advantage on the attack roll to use Dirty Fighting against a creature if you are within 5 feet of it, no other creatures are within 5 feet of you, and you don't have disadvantage on the attack roll. The other limitations on Dirty Fighting still apply.

9 - Panache
As an action, you can make a Charisma (Persuasion) check contested by a creature's Wisdom (Insight) check. The creature must be able to hear you, and the two of you must share a language.If you succeed on the check and the creature is hostile to you, it has disadvantage on attack rolls against targets other than you and can't make opportunity attacks against targets other than you. This effect lasts for 1 minute, until one of your companions attacks the target or affects it with a spell, or until you and the target are more than 60 feet apart.
If you succeed on the check and the creature isn't hostile to you, it is charmed by you for 1 minute. While charmed, it regards you as a friendly acquaintance. This effect ends immediately if you or your companions do anything harmful to it.

13 - Elegant Maneuver
You can use a bonus action on your turn to gain advantage on the next Dexterity (Acrobatics) or Strength (Athletics) check you make during the same turn.

17 - Master Duelist
If you miss with an attack roll, you can roll it again with advantage. Once you do so, you can't use this feature again until you finish a short or long rest.

2019-01-14, 04:52 PM
Looks pretty fun and slick so far with one obvious concern-- what do you do in a fight? Bardic Inspiration is nice, but it's a sideline gig at best. Are the subclasses going to take the load?

2019-01-14, 05:04 PM
So is the luck dice capped by bounded accuracy?(example: someone reached the maximum attack bonus then could he get anything from the luck dice to its attack)

2019-01-14, 06:49 PM
Looks pretty fun and slick so far with one obvious concern-- what do you do in a fight? Bardic Inspiration is nice, but it's a sideline gig at best. Are the subclasses going to take the load?

If you haven't given yourself Luck dice, you can use Dirty Fighting on your own attacks every turn at no cost - I might have to reword that to make it a bit clearer. It's not a lot, but it's something. On a side note, what do you think Bardic Inspiration would need to make it a main gig? Part of the reason I'm making this is because I miss Inspire Courage/Dragonfire Inspiration being something you could make your primary combat contribution.

So is the luck dice capped by bounded accuracy?(example: someone reached the maximum attack bonus then could he get anything from the luck dice to its attack)

Unless Bardic Inspiration or Bless are capped... the answer is no.

2019-01-14, 07:52 PM
If you haven't given yourself Luck dice, you can use Dirty Fighting on your own attacks every turn at no cost - I might have to reword that to make it a bit clearer. It's not a lot, but it's something. On a side note, what do you think Bardic Inspiration would need to make it a main gig? Part of the reason I'm making this is because I miss Inspire Courage/Dragonfire Inspiration being something you could make your primary combat contribution.
I did see that, but to be honest I thought it was unintentional. As you note, it's not much, and it scales really badly. At level 1 it's better than Sneak Attack; at level 20 it's almost nothing.

To make Inspiration your main gig... I dunno. 5e doesn't really have any examples of that kind of thing in more than a support role. I think I'd start by looking at the Monk-- they're the closest I can think of to "run everything off a single short-rest resource." The other issue is that you're going to have to draw a distinction between skill-boosting (where you're sharply limited) and damage-boosting (which has to increase drastically with level).

So, uh... maybe you have 1 die/level/short rest and can pass out multiple dice at once, and allies can spend multiple dice when adding to damage? Or, like, a reaction-based damage boost-- when an ally hits a target, use your reaction to spend dice on their damage, or just, like, grant a sneak attack style at-will damage boost? Or Battlemaster style maneuvers where you spend 1+ BI dice for special effects? I dunno. Think big.

2019-01-14, 08:45 PM
You're missing the largest portion of the power budget of both the Rogue and the Bard, IMO - Sneak Attack and a full spellcasting progression. You'll need to boost Dirty Fighting to something bigger, and you'll also want to greatly boost your Scoundrel's Luck feature.

For Dirty Fighting, I suggest simplifying to "whenever you deal damage with an attack, that attack's damage is increased by an amount equal to your Luck die". The portion that lets it be added to an ally's damage should be shifted into whichever subclass is most martial (a la Valor Bards). Additionally, you should give them Extra Attack. This will make their combat input similar to that of a Paladin, Ranger, or Barbarian - 2 damage boosted attacks (assuming Divine Strike/Hunter's Mark/Rage) Since all of those have limited circumstances, you could consider limiting it to the same use cases as Sneak Attack (with an ally next to your target, or with advantage), but since it's not as strong as Sneak Attack except at 1st and 2nd level I think having it apply to both attacks is fine. Maybe have Extra Attack later than 5th level, or have Dirty Fighting be a later feature.

As for Scoundrel's Luck, I say that you should forget having it just be a transplant of Bardic Inspiration. You want it to be a much larger portion of this class's input than Bardic Inspiration is for the bard, so it should be more powerful. I say strike Fortune's Friend (leaving it as a long-rest feature only) and get uses of it equal to your level plus your Charisma modifier. That will start someone off with a probable 4 uses (level 1 with 16 in Cha) and leave them with 25 (level 20 with 20 in Charisma) to spread throughout their day. Subclasses presumably come with extra ways to use it.

2019-02-01, 11:59 AM
Alright, changelist is as follows:

I renamed a lot of things. The theme is now being super-savvy rather than being super-lucky.
Scoundrel's Luck (now Scoundrel's Savvy) no longer boosts your own rolls. However, you can now grant Savvy dice as part of a Help action, in addition to your normal 60ft boost. Oh, and it's Short-Rest by default.
Dirty Fighting has been streamlined and no longer burns an ally's Savvy dice - however, using it on a buddy requires you to use the Help action.
In recognition of how central Help is to this class... the Cunning Action equivalent (Swift Action) now lets you Help as a bonus action. Have fun.
Also because Help is really important... just take a look at Savvy Tactics. Is nice.
I've added two Grand Reputations, both based off of a fusion of a Bard subclass with a Rogue subclass. The Debutante (Mastermind + College of Glamour) deals with the whole "kinda sucky at combat" thing by making you a really good party face, and the Swashbuckler (Swashbuckler + College of Swords) makes you better at hand-to-hand, face-to-face combat.

Things I am wondering:
Should I toss another feature under Scoundrel's Savvy? Not sure what I'd put there, really.
Is the fact that Savvy Tactics applies to Dirty Fighting clear?