Strongest creature by type

[Gwyllgi]

Has anyone made a list of the strongest listed monsters by type. I get that abilities might make some monsters stronger than others with a higher CR but I wonder. This is because I was looking for the strongest evil outsider but couldn't find a straight answer.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Are we purely gauging monsters by CR?

Do unique individuals count?

[Kayblis]

The "Strongest Evil Outsider" is most certainly a demon lord like Demogorgon or Orcus. This is also a meaningless label at this point, considering the impact of a demon lord's domain and followers is not taken into account. Do you have a more specific goal in mind?

[ViperMagnum357]

In terms of 'as printed', probably the most powerful Evil Outsider would be the original, 3.0 version of Orcus printed in Dungeon #89. Tipping the scales at 44 HD, casting as a Wizard 20 and a Cleric 20, and a special ability that makes a mockery of the Action Economy-allowing Orcus to Quicken one of his at-will SLAs, every turn. Also, He can summon an Atropal.

[ColorBlindNinja]

In terms of 'as printed', probably the most powerful Evil Outsider would be the original, 3.0 version of Orcus printed in Dungeon #89. Tipping the scales at 44 HD, casting as a Wizard 20 and a Cleric 20, and a special ability that makes a mockery of the Action Economy-allowing Orcus to Quicken one of his at-will SLAs, every turn. Also, He can summon an Atropal.

Did he have an official CR? I think that statblock is superseded by the more recent ones in the Book of Vile Darkness and Fiendish Codex I.



I believe the strongest outsider in the game is the Hecatoncheires (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#hecatoncheires) at CR 57.

[ViperMagnum357]

Did he have an official CR? I think that statblock is superseded by the more recent ones in the Book of Vile Darkness and Fiendish Codex I.



I believe the strongest outsider in the game is the Hecatoncheires (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#hecatoncheires) at CR 57.

Officially: significantly, hilariously under-CR'ed at 24. For something that can summon 1d2 Balors every hour, plus a CR 30 Atropal, and turns anyone killed by his Wand or sting Poison into a Bodak under his complete control 1 round later with no cap.

Plus, ya know, being a dual caster 20 with the two best spell lists in 3rd Edition.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Officially: significantly, hilariously under-CR'ed at 24. For something that can summon 1d2 Balors every hour, plus a CR 30 Atropal, and turns anyone killed by his Wand or sting Poison into a Bodak under his complete control 1 round later with no cap.

Plus, ya know, being a dual caster 20 with the two best spell lists in 3rd Edition.

I love how a CR 24 monster can summon a CR 30 creature. :smallbiggrin:

[Particle_Man]

One down! So what is the strongest humanoid?

[ColorBlindNinja]

One down! So what is the strongest humanoid?

Since most humanoids advance via class levels, that one could be tricky.

Are templates allowed?

[Particle_Man]

Have to ask theOP. But if it changes their type such that it wouldn’t be a humanoid then I would not count it.

If that is too hard, how about plant?

[ColorBlindNinja]

Have to ask theOP. But if it changes their type such that it wouldn’t be a humanoid then I would not count it.

I was thinking of using Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm).


If that is too hard, how about plant?

Elder Treant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/treantElder.htm)?

[Psyren]

Deities are outsiders so I think that type wins.

Or are you looking for the strongest example of each type? Like strongest plant, strongest ooze etc.

[Particle_Man]

That is what I thought the op meant.

So strongest ooze? Does brown mold on the elemental plane of fire count? :smallbiggrin:

[Gwyllgi]

No templates, only listed creatures. It's mostly just for records because this question has never been asked. No adding anything on to it.

[Remuko]

I know its past now, but I was always partial to the Infernal as an evil outsider. But yeah Deities are probably strong if you count those.

Most non-deity monsters that are strongest per type will probably be from the ELH tbh.

[Particle_Man]

So I guess strongest humanoid is probably human? Hard to beat that extra feat! There is a reason that almost every class guide has "human" as a great racial pick.

[ColorBlindNinja]

No templates, only listed creatures. It's mostly just for records because this question has never been asked. No adding anything on to it.

Very well then.


That is what I thought the op meant.

So strongest ooze? Does brown mold on the elemental plane of fire count? :smallbiggrin:

I think it's the Genius Loci (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/geniusLoci.htm) at CR 30.

[Thurbane]

Actually, with no templates or class levels, either Dabus or Tren would probably be the strongest humanoids, as they both get 4 RHD.

[ColorBlindNinja]

I do believe that the most powerful dragon is the Time Dragon Great Wyrm (Dragon Magazine #359) at whopping CR 90!

[Gwyllgi]

Assuming that Legend of the 5 rings is first party because oriental adventures is based in Rokugan, I elect THE FIRST ONI as the strongest outsider. A few things he has.
•Immunity to fire, cold, acid, shock, sonic, disease, and poison.
•50 regen and all damage is subdual.
•Spell resistance 35
•immunity to all mind influencing effects and can see through illusions at will.
• and more.

Found in creatures of rokugan.

[RoboEmperor]

strongest construct is umbral blot
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/umbralBlot.htm

[Thurbane]

Do we count 3rd party? Because there's some truly ludicrous stuff in this book: Immortals Handbook - EPIC BESTIARY (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/3481/Immortals-Handbook--EPIC-BESTIARY-Volume-One?it=1)

Taken the Neutronium Golem for instance: CR 9721, Hit Dice: 250d1000+1,966,080

[ColorBlindNinja]

Do we count 3rd party? Because there's some truly ludicrous stuff in this book: Immortals Handbook - EPIC BESTIARY (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/3481/Immortals-Handbook--EPIC-BESTIARY-Volume-One?it=1)

Taken the Neutronium Golem for instance: CR 9721, Hit Dice: 250d1000+1,966,080

Not the Immortal Handbook! It burns! :smallfrown:

[Ruethgar]

Hmmm, would Lesser Planetouched Count? Because if so, that fiendish troll thing is the strongest humanoid I can think of.

Edit: Found him, Mur-Zhagul (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030413b). But that's assuming lesser planetouched are ok for this since I don't think they are ever listed as a statblock.

[noob]

Do we count 3rd party? Because there's some truly ludicrous stuff in this book: Immortals Handbook - EPIC BESTIARY (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/3481/Immortals-Handbook--EPIC-BESTIARY-Volume-One?it=1)

Taken the Neutronium Golem for instance: CR 9721, Hit Dice: 250d1000+1,966,080

The neutronium golem is rather weak: there is many ways to kill it and even if you do not kill it then it kills itself.

[ColorBlindNinja]

The neutronium golem is rather weak: there is many ways to kill it and even if you do not kill it then it kills itself.

I think the OP was only talking about CR, not how powerful the actual monster is.

[Remuko]

Hmmm, would Lesser Planetouched Count? Because if so, that fiendish troll thing is the strongest humanoid I can think of.

Edit: Found him, Mur-Zhagul (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030413b). But that's assuming lesser planetouched are ok for this since I don't think they are ever listed as a statblock.

hes listed as an outsider and the other two are giants, not humanoids.

[Thurbane]

hes listed as an outsider and the other two are giants, not humanoids.

I believe the thought is that Lesser Planetouched would change it's type to Humanoid...

[ColorBlindNinja]

I believe the thought is that Lesser Planetouched would change it's type to Humanoid...

That is indeed the case. The monster in question is a Planetouched?

EDIT: It is.

[Thurbane]

Well according to the Monster Index (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters) (which is not entirely a complete resource), by CR:


Aberration: Gibbering Orb (CR 27)
Animal: Dinosaur, Battletitan (CR 16)
Construct: Colossus, Iron (CR 33) or Living Vault (CR 33)
Fey: LeShay (CR 28)
Magical Beast: Fiendwurm (CR 28) or Prismasaurus (CR 28)
Monstrous Humanoid: Gloom (CR 25)
Ooze: Genius Loci (CR 30)
Outsider: Abomination, Hecatoncheires (CR 57)
Plant: Treant, Elder (CR 25)
Undead: Demilich* (CR 29)
Vermin: Beetle, Devastation (CR 50)

...humanoid is tough, because the list includes examples with class levels.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Well according to the Monster Index (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters) (which is not entirely a complete resource), by CR:

I believe the index lacks monsters from web articles and Dragon Magazine.



Aberration: Gibbering Orb (CR 27)
Animal: Dinosaur, Battletitan (CR 16)
Construct: Colossus, Iron (CR 33) or Living Vault (CR 33)
Fey: LeShay (CR 28)
Magical Beast: Fiendwurm (CR 28) or Prismasaurus (CR 28)
Monstrous Humanoid: Gloom (CR 25)
Ooze: Genius Loci (CR 30)
Outsider: Abomination, Hecatoncheires (CR 57)
Plant: Treant, Elder (CR 25)
Undead: Demilich* (CR 29)
Vermin: Beetle, Devastation (CR 50)


Looks pretty good. :smallsmile:



...humanoid is tough, because the list includes examples with class levels.

Yep, found this out myself the hard way. :smallfrown:

[noob]

Well according to the Monster Index (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/monsters) (which is not entirely a complete resource), by CR:


Aberration: Gibbering Orb (CR 27)
Animal: Dinosaur, Battletitan (CR 16)
Construct: Colossus, Iron (CR 33) or Living Vault (CR 33)
Fey: LeShay (CR 28)
Magical Beast: Fiendwurm (CR 28) or Prismasaurus (CR 28)
Monstrous Humanoid: Gloom (CR 25)
Ooze: Genius Loci (CR 30)
Outsider: Abomination, Hecatoncheires (CR 57)
Plant: Treant, Elder (CR 25)
Undead: Demilich* (CR 29)
Vermin: Beetle, Devastation (CR 50)

...humanoid is tough, because the list includes examples with class levels.
Demilich is a template and the example creature have class levels.
So maybe you should mention some of those epic wights or something like that.

[Thurbane]

DragonDex might help with monsters from the magazine (annoying, blocked from my work): https://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/monsters.html

My list might help with online material: Monster Manual VI - Online Monsters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?567712)

[ColorBlindNinja]

Demilich is a template and the example creature have class levels.
So maybe you should mention some of those epic wights or something like that.

The Atropal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal) is CR 30, 1 CR higher than the Demilich.


DragonDex might help with monsters from the magazine (annoying, blocked from my work): https://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/monsters.html

My list might help with online material: Monster Manual VI - Online Monsters (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?567712)

Thanks. :smallsmile:

EDIT: That Monster Manual VI thread is going to be so helpful as a DM.

[Remuko]

I believe the thought is that Lesser Planetouched would change it's type to Humanoid...

ah right right, derp, my bad :P

[Gwyllgi]

Are we purely gauging monsters by CR?

Do unique individuals count?

We are not.

[ColorBlindNinja]

We are not.

So, we're not using CR to gauge monsters and unique individuals don't count.


That changes things considerably, actually.

[HouseRules]

So, we're not using CR to gauge monsters and unique individuals don't count.


That changes things considerably, actually.

Tier 1 and Tier 2 Monster have lower CR for the same Difficulty they give.

If we look at difficulty, it would be closer to ECL than CR.

[noob]

So elder titans are among the strongest outsiders(at higher cr you do not get more than double level 20 casting and epic spells)
For undead I wonder is there is an undead with epic spellcasting and no levels.