Repercussions of no vancian spellcasters?

[umbergod]

Recently been entertaining the idea of a 1-20 dnd world where traditional vancian spellcasting and spellcasters dont exist. Bards will function more like the Noble from star wars d20, ranger and paladin will use spell-less variants.

The first obvious bit is magical healing becomes quite a bit more rare. As would magic items.

EDIT: to clarify, there would be no vancian caster or their equivalent (psionics and so forth) spell-less variants would be introduced in the place of bard/ranger/paladin. Nonstandard casters such as warlock, binder, etc would become the staple casters of the setting.

Also forgot the dumb "caster level required to be an alchemist" rule, bc ive never seen anyone enforce it :p so if anything alchemy will/would be expanded upon to help somewhat, given the lack of general access to healing/restorative magic

[Crichton]

It sounds like you're basically asking about what happens in a world without magic users at all. Not quite sure why you specified Vancian spellcasters as the only ones not existing, but there are already several non-vancian spellcasting classes in 3.5. The spell-point variant system in Unearthed Arcana, for example. Or it could be argued that most psionic classes aren't Vancian, as they use spell levels but a power point system instead of the Vancian system of daily preparation/memorization and spell slots. So if you're just looking to do away with that aspect of magic, variant systems already exist. If you're looking to basically do away with magic in your world altogether, that's another matter.

[umbergod]

I specified vancian bc i plan to have the roles filled by those casters replaced with warlocks, binders, and MoI classes.

I'd totally forgotten about psionics, that'd have to go too. At the very least the full caster equivalents would be banned.

[Minion #6]

It sounds like you're basically asking about what happens in a world without magic users at all. Not quite sure why you specified Vancian spellcasters as the only ones not existing, but there are already several non-vancian spellcasting classes in 3.5. The spell-point variant system in Unearthed Arcana, for example. Or it could be argued that most psionic classes aren't Vancian, as they use spell levels but a power point system instead of the Vancian system of daily preparation/memorization and spell slots. So if you're just looking to do away with that aspect of magic, variant systems already exist. If you're looking to basically do away with magic in your world altogether, that's another matter.

+1 to this. Warlock, most psionic classes, dragonfire adept, variant spell point casters, certain martial schools from Tome of Battle and incarnum users are all still magical. Not only that, there will still be creatures with magical abilities - although I presume you'd also be removing any ability of, say, the true dragons to gain sorcerer casting.

If you're looking to eliminate magic entirely from the setting... really you should be looking for a system that better fits your concept. D&D is a high magic game by it's very nature. Creatures have abilities and tactics that assume magic items, an extremely large number of them have magical abilities or are magical inherently.

If you're looking to restrict PC access to magical effects, again, look to a system that functions without magic rather than using a system with magic so central. Especially given that disallowing PC access to magic but still having all the other magic in creatures they encounter would come across as unfair.

EDIT: Swordsage'd, some of this is already acknowledged, and I also missed binders in my listing of "magic but not Vancian" list

[DeTess]

The most important consequence is that certain creatures inflict potentially very dangerous conditions that need a restoration-type spell or similar to cure, so you'd need to not use these creatures, or provide an alternative treatment options.

For the rest, it should be mostly fine, provided you hand-wave magic items as still existing, despite the spells technically needed to create them no longer being around.

[umbergod]

The most important consequence is that certain creatures inflict potentially very dangerous conditions that need a restoration-type spell or similar to cure, so you'd need to not use these creatures, or provide an alternative treatment options.

For the rest, it should be mostly fine, provided you hand-wave magic items as still existing, despite the spells technically needed to create them no longer being around.

Well for the first bit i like to world build so i'd tailor the world to fit. As for point two, wouldnt both a 12th lvl warlock and a binder with astaroth be capable of producing magic items just fine?

[Crichton]

Well for the first bit i like to world build so i'd tailor the world to fit. As for point two, wouldnt both a 12th lvl warlock and a binder with astaroth be capable of producing magic items just fine?

Binders with astaroth can qualify for the item creation feats, but not the spell prerequisites for many/most magic items. Warlocks with imbue item technically could, but with you removing all the casting classes in the world, how do you explain the presence of a system of specific spells of specific levels with specific effect for the warlocks to emulate via UMD?

[HouseRules]

1st) use Vancian to Psionic (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?194002)

Similar Changes are made to Psionic Powers for the following points:

2nd) change the Cost to Spell Level × (Spell Level × 2 + Caster Level - Minimum Caster Level)

3rd) Force linear Spell Point attainment, without bonus for Ability Score Modifiers.

(8th and 9th level max) = 5 points per level
(6th and 7th level max) = 4 points per level
(4th and 5th level max) = 3 points per level
(2nd and 3rd level max) = 2 points per level
(0th and 1st level max) = 1 points per level

[umbergod]

Binders with astaroth can qualify for the item creation feats, but not the spell prerequisites for many/most magic items. Warlocks with imbue item technically could, but with you removing all the casting classes in the world, how do you explain the presence of a system of specific spells of specific levels with specific effect for the warlocks to emulate via UMD?

I misremembered Astaroth :p thought he was akin to warlock lvl 12 ability. As for the explaining the presence of a system you describe, why would i need to? No stranger than older editions allowing non-casters to craft magical items. Or do you have an explanation for how Bruenor Battlehammer managed to craft a throwing, returning warhammer without a single caster level?

[umbergod]

1st) use [url=www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?194002]snip

The issue with that idea is i still have a highly magical world with 20th lvl spellcasters that are all but gods. As fun as that power curve is, im aiming for a reduction in that area

[HouseRules]

The issue with that idea is i still have a highly magical world with 20th lvl spellcasters that are all but gods. As fun as that power curve is, im aiming for a reduction in that area

Read points 2 and 3. These changes are necessary to cut down their power.

With points 2 and points 3, a level 20 full casters could only have 100 spell points, that could only cast a 7th level (if they are a prepared caster) or 6th level (if they are spontaneous caster) as the highest spell, but that is trying to nova. If they need to maintain 4 spells, they would be stuck with using 3rd level spells.

Do Not Allow Your Players To Play 15 Minute Days By Nova.

If the Maximum Number of Spell Points is still limited to Caster Level, the Prepared Casters could cast 3rd level spell ((3*(5+1)) = 18 <= 20), but Spontaneous Caster cannot ((3*(6+1)) 21 > 20) by the time they are Level 20. Therefore, by taking all three points together, these casters are the same strength as E5 casters, but diluted to 20 levels.

[Fizban]

Setting, or mechanical?

Setting-wise, spellcasters have little effect on the default. The city generation rules ensure that there are enough spellcasters to service the party when in town, and justify the town being able to defend itself against those monsters that the party fights in the field, but not enough to make a significant difference otherwise. So any setting effects of vancian casters are already dependent upon the DM's assumptions, or a published setting that says someone already did xyz. Magic Item Creation already has little reason to be tied to spellcasters in the first place, Warlocks or Binders or Midgard Dwarves or other monsters or various prestige classes or just gods can justify as many magic items as you want. Personally I'd just open up the feats to anyone with some sort of magical/supernatural power source at the normal levels, particularly whichever classes you use to replace the vancian casters for city generation. If you want people to still be able to craft items, then let them do so, boom.

Mechanically, there are two things the game expects: someone with magical offense, and a Cleric.

The Cleric list has all the hp recovery, status removal, status prevention, and even overland travel and communication and environment coping that the party could ever require. Thus, plenty of monsters have abilities which would be completely unfair, but are considered fair because the Cleric can fix it tomorrow and/or the party can run away and the Cleric will be ready for it tomorrow, and an adventure can be written assuming that parties over x level will have certain spells (many of which are attributed to the Wizard, but are in fact guaranteed by the Cleric).

"Magical offense" sounds broad but really comes down to the two things that the Cleric is specifically denied until upper levels: crowd control, and bypassing physical defenses. Any class that can AoE and ignore AC and DR can perform this role. The main difference is that almost every published resource based class is a vancian caster, so removing those leaves you with the non-resource based classes- the endurance fighters with little burst potential. So you might need to encourage your players to take more feats/items/abilities that let them deal 1d6/level or "equivalent" instead of the usual 1d6/2 levels, or make those abilities for classes which don't have them (Warlocks have feats and items for it, but meldshapers don't, and Binders generally don't either).

So, the loss of vancian casters only really does one thing, making it impossible to fill the Cleric role with a Cleric, Druid, Archivist, Artificer, Favored Soul, etc. This means that you can't just throw monsters and modules at the party willy-nilly, because with no Cleric, they might lack the ability to deal with it. The easiest fix is simply not doing that, and only using stuff they can handle. Alternatively you can attempt to provide classes, abilities, or items that fill in everything the game expect the party to have access to via the Cleric. A series of feats that give status removal/prevention SLAs, classes with hp recovery or adding a "hit dice" mechanic like 4e/5e, good 'ol metroidvanizelda items that let you handle the rest of the dungeon, Incantations or other rituals, etc.

Well, and there's the secondary result, in that non-vancian supernaturals is basically just code for Tome of Magic and Magic of Incarnum, as in, Binders and meldshapers. Both of which are pretty borked, meldhsapers having too much power too early and too little too late combined with a bunch of restrictions and overpriced required items, while Binders have to wait nearly half the game just to be allowed to actually start combining their features. Both need some tweaking if they're expected to be used, even if the party can do all the Cleric stuff via incantations and items, and since they're also the main sources of non-spell character based healing, they're likely to show up. Warlocks and Dragonfire Adepts are mostly fine, aside from Warlocks lacking an early AoE and both lacking in rage, so situations where you're expected to "fireball" an enemy group don't really work.

If you're including Warlocks, then you aren't really removing all references to "spells" from the game. Dragonmarks and the Complete Mage Fey/Fiendish Heritage lines provide the easiest template for "fixing" the main problems with removing vancian casters, by letting people pick up the necessities with feats. And you could of course give out some bonus slots for them. By shifting the most critical game component spells to feats and incantations, you decouple them from classes, which simultaneously makes it so that any given higher level NPC *could* have them, but there are no guarantees that any will.

[Ruethgar]

It should be noted that this also removes alchemy from the game which might have been used to sub healers a bit(1d6 heal pots for 50g). The spelless bard from Dark Sun bypasses this, but that’s an obscure and shaky source. While the non-vancian magic has some healing, it is typically not great from what I can think of. Status effect removal seems to be the biggest issue.

If semi-official content is allowed, Ravenloft still has the Scientist as a very poor caster substitute. They also have much more expensive “magic” item creation from level 3 onward instead of waiting til 12.

Only high level warlocks being able to make magic items would logically lend magic items to be higher level and likely much more rarely magic items that emulate things they can do for themselves or wouldn’t do like perpetual flight or a magic sword(why sword when I can glaive/claws it up?).

[noob]

If you remove vancian spellcasters Spell to power erudites and artificers fill the gap left by T1 spellcasters.
On the other hand you would see in mid op a whole lot of spontaneous cloistered clerics and of spontaneous druids.

[Ruethgar]

Considering that the OP also said no psionic(at least full casting ones), he probably meant no vancian casting from any source(artificer), and no full casters. This would also ban the aptitude foci of a Chameleon even if you went with the alchemy variant. However he should probably update the OP to reflect the added restrictions and not leave it to interpretation.

[Falontani]

Lvl

Bab

Fort

Ref

Will

Special



1

+0

+2

+0

+2

Healing Hands, Xag-Ya Familiar



2

+1

+3

+0

+3

Skill Focus (Heal)



3

+1

+3

+1

+3

Cleanse Paralysis



4

+2

+4

+1

+4

Cleanse Disease



5

+2

+4

+1

+4

Cleanse Fear



6

+3

+5

+2

+5

Cleanse Poison



7

+3

+5

+2

+5

Effortless Healing



8

+4

+6

+2

+6

Unicorn Companion



9

+4

+6

+3

+6

Cleanse Blindness



10

+5

+7

+3

+7

Cleanse Spirit



11

+5

+7

+3

+7

Xag-Ya Familiar



12

+6

+8

+4

+8

Power of Healing



13

+6

+8

+4

+8

Cleanse Petrification



14

+7

+9

+4

+9




15

+7

+9

+5

+9

New Limb



16

+8

+10

+5

+10




17

+8

+10

+5

+10




18

+9

+11

+6

+11

New Life



19

+9

+11

+6

+11




20

+10

+12

+6

+12

Raise the Masses



Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Luck, Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Survival (Wis).
4+Int Mod (x4 at level first level)




All of the following are class features of the healer.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Healers are proficient with all simple weapons and with light armor.
Spell Emulation: A healer may emulate divine spells, which are drawn from the healer spell list. A healer may use any item creation feat as if she could cast the spell and has a caster level equal to her Healer level. .

To emulate a spell, a healer must have a Wisdom score of 10 + the spell's level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a healer's spell is 10 + the spell's level + the healer's Wisdom modifier. A healer may emulate any spell on the healer spell list (see below), provided her healer level is equal or higher than the spell level after this equation: (Healer level/2 rounded up to the nearest whole number)
Finally for each level of Healer that you take you may select a single cleric spell that is a Conjuration (healing) spell or a harmless spell, that you would be able to emulate, and add it to your Healer spell list.

Healing Hands: Whenever a healer uses a magic item that cures hit point damage, she adds her Charisma modifier to the amount of damage healed. For instance, if a 5th-level healer with an 18 Charisma casts cure light wounds, she cures 1d8+5 points of damage normally, plus an additional 4 points of damage due to her Charisma bonus. This bonus applies only to magic items of the healing subschool that is on your healer spell list, not to those that she may have by virtue of levels in another class.

Xag-Ya Familiar (Ex): Upon entering the Healer class a special form of Xag-Ya is created and bound to the Healer. The Xag-Ya follows all the same rules as a wizard’s familiar except that you treat your Healer level as your Wizard level for all abilities of the Familiar. At 11th level a second Xag-Ya forms, and treats your effective Healer level as 10 less for abilities it gains. If one of the Xag-Ya die, then a new one is reformed 24 hours later from the constant release of positive energy that the Healer exhumes.

Skill Focus (Heal): A healer's focused training grants her this bonus feat at 2nd level. If she already has that feat, she may choose a different one.

Cleanse Paralysis (Su): A healer deals with certain kinds of maladies so often that eventually she can cure them without resorting to a spell. At 3rd level, a healer gains the ability to cleanse paralysis once per day, as if casting a remove paralysis spell.

Cleanse Disease (Su): At 4th level, a healer gains the ability to cleanse disease once per day, as if casting a remove disease spell.

Cleanse Fear (Su): At 5th level, a healer gains the ability to cleanse fear once per day, as if casting a remove fear spell.

Cleanse Poison (Su): At 6th level, a healer gains the ability to cleanse poison once per day, as if casting a neutralize poison spell.

Effortless Healing (Ex): At 7th level, a healer has learned to cast spells of the healing subschool with minimal effort. She may cast such spells without provoking attacks of opportunity. This ability applies only to spells of the healing subschool that she casts as a healer, not to those that she may have by virtue of levels in another class. She gains the ability to cast cure minor wounds, cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds, and cure serious wounds. Cure minor wounds costs .5 spell points, cure light wounds costs 1 spell point, cure moderate wounds costs 2, and cure serious wounds costs 3. She has a number of spell points available to her per day equal to her Healer level, and regains these spell points at a rate of 1/minute.

Unicorn Companion (Ex): When a healer attains 8th level, the deities recognize her devotion and grant her a celestial unicorn companion as her mount and aide. The unicorn, a symbol of healing and purity, serves the healer willingly and unswervingly.
Once per day, as a full-round action, the healer may magically summon her companion from the celestial realms in which it resides. The companion immediately appears adjacent to the healer and remains for 2 hours per healer level. It may be dismissed at any time as a free action. The companion is the same creature each time it is summoned, though the healer may release a particular companion from service to gain a companion of a different kind. Each time the companion is summoned, it appears in full health, regardless of any damage it may have taken previously. The companion also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Summoning a companion is a conjuration (summoning) effect.
A healer of 12th level or higher may select from alternative lists of companions. Should she select a companion from one of these alternative lists, the creature gains abilities as if the character's level were lower than it actually is. Subtract the value indicated in the appropriate list header from the character's healer level and compare the result with the healer level entry on the table to determine the companion's powers. (If this adjustment would reduce the healer's effective level to 0 or lower, she can't have the companion.) For example, a 12th-level healer could select a lammasu as a companion. The lammasu would have characteristics and special abilities as if the healer were 8th level. (Taking into account the -4 adjustment) instead of 12th level.
Should the healer's companion die, it immediately disappears, leaving behind any equipment it was carrying. The healer may not summon another companion for 30 days or until she gains a healer level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the healer is distraught and takes a —4 penalty on attack rolls and weapon damage rolls.

Cleanse Blindness/Deafness (Su): At 9th level, a healer gains the ability to cleanse blindness/deafness once per day, as if casting a remove blindness/deafness spell.

Cleanse Spirit (Su): At 10th level, a healer gains the ability to restore a creature to health once per day, as if casting a greater restoration spell.

Power of Healing (Su): A healer exudes an aura out to 10 feet, anyone within this aura is considered present on a Positive Dominant Plane. This grants everyone fast healing 5, and any healing (including fast healing and regeneration) that they receive in excess of their normal maximum is turned into temporary hit points. These temporary hit points last for up to 2d20 rounds after leaving the positive dominant plane. If a creature reaches their maximum number of hit points in temporary hit points then they must make a fortitude save DC (10+½ healer level+wis mod) or blow up in a burst of positive energy dealing their Hit Die D8 points of positive energy to all creatures within 20 feet of the creature. The healer, his unicorn companion, and all creatures native to a Positive Dominant Plane are immune to all temporary hit points that would be gained in this manner. Blowing up in this manner is considered a Death effect.

Cleanse Petrification (Su): At 13th level, a healer gains the ability to restore a petrified creature to health once per day, as if casting a stone to flesh spell. (this ability also works on spells such as flesh to ice, flesh to salt, etc)

New Limb (Su): At 15th level, a healer gains the ability to regrow a creature's lost or damaged body part once per day, as if casting a regenerate spell.

New Life (Su): Once per week, an 18th-level healer can bring a dead creature back to life, as if casting a true resurrection spell.


Raise the Masses (Su): A healer of 20th level may undergo the ultimate sacrifice; as part of activating Raise the Masses a healer is killed and becomes unable to be brought back to life through any means short of divine intervention. All creatures within 1 mile per Healer level are brought back to life as if the Resurrection spell was cast upon them. This ability reforms bodies that have been destroyed as long as a part of them is still within the radius of the spell. In addition it will even bring back those that have died of old age, granting them 1 additional year of life per healer level. Undead within the radius are turned into their former selves before they were originally killed if possible. All creatures are under the effects of the Calm Emotions spell, and all plants are under the effects of an Enrichment version of Plant Growth. The use of this ability usually ends wars, brings peace, and prosperity to the land that it was used upon. The healer’s soul is sent to their just reward immediately.

Healer Spell List:

Orisons: create water, cure minor wounds, deathwatch, detect magic, detect poison, light, mending, purify food and drink, read magic.

1st: bless water, cure light wounds, detect undead, goodberry, protection from evil, remove fear, remove paralysis, resurgence, sanctuary, speak with animals

2nd: calm emotions, consecrate, cure moderate wounds, delay poison, gentle repose, remove blindness/deafness, remove disease, lesser restoration.

3rd: close wounds, create food/water, cure serious wounds, halt deathless, neutralize poison, remove curse, restoration, status

4th: cure critical wounds, death ward, freedom of movement, mass cure light wounds, panacea, spirit steed

5th: atonement, break enchantment, darts of life, hallow, mass cure moderate wounds, raise dead, revivify, stone to flesh, true seeing.

6th: create deathless, greater restoration, heal, heroes' feast, mass cure serious wounds, regenerate.

7th: control deathless, mass cure critical wounds, repulsion, resurrection.

8th: create greater deathless, discern location, holy aura, mass heal.

9th: foresight, gate, true resurrection.
Xag-Ya Familiar:
Xag-Ya
Tiny Outsider (Incorporeal)
Hit dice: As Master’s HD (½ master’s hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: Fly 30 ft. (Good)
Armor class: 17 (+2 size, +3 Dex, +2 deflection), touch 17, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/-
Attack: incorporeal touch +6 melee (1d4 positive) or positive energy ray +6 ranged touch (1d4 positive)
Full Attack: 2 incorporeal touches +6 melee (1d4 positive)
Space/Reach: 2.5 ft./0 ft.
Special Qualities: Incorporeal, positive energy lash, turn undead, explosion
Saves: Fort +2 Ref +5 Will +2
Abilities: Str -, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 3, Wis 10, Cha 14
Skills: Heal +4, Concentration +4, Knowledge (the planes) +0, Spellcraft +0
Feats: Extra Turning, (Master’s Choice)
Alignment: Shares Master’s Alignment
Advancement: 7-10 HD (Small); 11-15 HD (medium)

Energons are faintly glowing coalescences of energy inhabited by alien intelligence. Native to the Energy Planes, they wander elsewhere to satisfy curiosity or fulfill some unknown plan.

Xag-yas hail from the Positive Energy Plane, each type of energon is a translucent globe about 1 foot across that floats and shimmers in the air, giving off a warm glow. Emerging from the lower hemisphere of the globe are 6 to 12 tentacles. The only other feature is a pair of spots on the upper hemisphere that suggests eyes.

Combat
Energons like to move around in combat, using their incorporeality to outmaneuver material foes. A xeg-yi often fires its energy ray, then ducks into a solid object to counterattack. In melee combat, energons try to position themselves so that their enemies can't maneuver easily and try to use Combat Reflexes to make extra attacks of opportunity. An energon can fight with only four tentacles at a time.

Incorporeal: Energons can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons, or magic, with a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source. They can pass through solid objects at will, and their attacks pass through armor. They always move silently.

Energy Ray (ex): An energon's energy ray has a range of 30 feet.

Explosion (Su): If an energon is reduced to 0 hit points, its body is instantaneously destroyed in an explosion of positive energy that deals 1d4 plus 1 point per hit dice, damage to everyone in a 20-foot-radius burst (Fortitude save DC 10 + ½ HD + cha mod half). If a xag-ya and xag-yi see each other, they rush together as fast as they can. When they make contact, both creatures are destroyed in an explosion that deals 2d8+18 points of damage within 30-foot-radius (Fortitude save DC 16 half).

Positive Energy Lash (Su): A xag-ya can make a ranged touch attack or hit with an incorporeal touch attack to infuse a target with positive energy. Undead foes (even incorporeal ones) take an additional 2d4 plus 1 point per Hit Dice of damage. The xag-ya can channel this positive energy into living creatures as well, healing up to 2d4 plus 1 point per Hit Dice of damage. The xag-ya can control its positive energy enough to avoid healing living foes (dealing only the base damage). Each use of this uses up a turn undead attempt.

Turn Undead (Su): By suffusing a 60-foot-radius area with positive energy, a xag-ya can make the undead recoil. It turns undead as cleric of it’s level and can do so nine-times per day.




Healer Level

Deflection AC Adj.

Int

Special



1st-2nd

+0

6

Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link



3rd-4th

+1

7

Deliver Touch Spells



5th-6th

+1

8

Telepathy 60 ft



7th-8th

+2

9

3 Incorporeal Touches, Size Improvement



9th-10th

+2

10

Spell Resistance



11th-12th

+3

11

4 Incorporeal Touches, Size Improvement



13th-14th

+3

12

Scry on Familiar



15th-16th

+4

13




17th-18th

+4

14




19th-20th

+5

15






Deflection AC Adj.: The number noted here is an improvement to the familiar’s existing deflection bonus.

Int: The familiar’s Intelligence score.

Alertness (Ex): While a familiar is within arm’s reach, the master gains the Alertness feat.

Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a familiar takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage even if the saving throw fails.

Share Spells: At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.

If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.

A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast).

Empathic Link (Su): The master has an empathic link with his familiar out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The master cannot see through the familiar’s eyes, but they can communicate empathically. Because of the limited nature of the link, only general emotional content can be communicated.

Because of this empathic link, the master has the same connection to an item or place that his familiar does.

Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master could. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.

Telepathy (Su): As of 5th level the Xag-Ya familiar is able to communicate telepathically with anyone who understands a language within 60 feet. This better allows the Xag-Ya to collaborate strategies and plans with the unit they are a part of.

Three Incorporeal Touches (Ex): As of 7th level a Xag-Ya is now able to perform three incorporeal touch attacks during a full attack action.

Size Improvement (Ex): At level 7 and again at level 11 a Xag-Ya grows a size category, from tiny to small, and then from small to medium. When the Xag-Ya undergoes this change it gains a +1 dexterity, a +5 ft reach, and +2 constitution (allowing them to potentially have more hit points than the Xag-Ya’s Master). In addition the Xag-Ya’s Incorporeal Touch attack, Explosion, and Positive Energy Ray increase from 1d4 to 1d6, and then again from 1d6 to 1d8. The Xag-Ya’s positive energy lash increases from 2d4 to 2d6, and then again from 2d6 to 2d8. These increases stack with the Improved Natural Attack feats.

Spell Resistance (Ex): If the master is 9th level or higher, a familiar gains spell resistance equal to the master’s level + 5. To affect the familiar with a spell, another spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the familiar’s spell resistance.

Scry on Familiar (Sp): If the master is 13th level or higher, he may scry on his familiar (as if casting the scrying spell) once per day.

The Healer Companion:
The healer's companion is different from a normal creature of its kind in many ways. The standard companion for a healer is a celestial unicorn. It is superior to a normal celestial unicorn and has special powers, as described below.


Healer Level

Bonus HD

Natural Armor Bonus

Str/Dex/Int Bonus

Special



8th-11th

+0

+0

+0

Empathic link, improved evasion, share saving throws, share spells



12th-14th

+2

+2

+2




15th-17th

+4

+4

+2

Devotion



18th-20th

+6

+6

+2

Improved Speed, Spell Resistance




Healer's Companion Basics: Use the base statistics for a creature of the companion's kind, as given below or in the Monster Manual, but make the following changes:
Healer Level: The character's healer level, which has a direct effect on the extent of the companion's special powers.
Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Bonus Hit Dice improve the companion's base attack and base save bonuses. A companion's base attack bonus is the same as that of a cleric of a level equal to the companion's HD. A companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the creature's HD). The companion gains extra skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster's Hit Dice (see the Monster Manual).
Natural Armor Bonus: The number noted here is an improvement to the creature's existing natural armor bonus. It represents the preternatural toughness of a healer's companion.
Str/Dex/Int Bonus: Add this figure to the companion's Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence scores.
Empathic Link (Su): The healer has an empathic link with her companion out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The healer cannot see through the companion's eyes, but they can communicate empathically. Note that unicorns see the world differently from humans, so misunderstandings are always possible. Because of this empathic link, the healer has the same connection to an item or place that her companion does, just as with a master and his familiar.
Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex save for half damage, a companion takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage even if the saving throw fails.
Share Saving Throws: For each of its saving throws, the companion uses its own base save bonus or the healer's, whichever is higher. The companion applies its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn't share any other bonuses on saves that the healer might have (such as from magic items or feats).
Share Spells: At the healer's option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect her companion. The companion must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the companion if the creature moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the companion again even if it returns to the healer before the duration expires. Additionally, the healer may cast a spell with a target of "You" on her companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A healer and her companion can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion's type (magical beast).
Devotion (Ex): A companion's devotion to its master is so complete that it gains a +4 morale bonus on Will saves against enchantment spells and effects.
Improved Speed (Ex): The companion's base land speed increases by 10 feet.
Spell Resistance (Su): A companion's spell resistance equals its master's healer level +5.


Alternative Celestial Companions



Level -4

Lammasu, Gynosphinx, Water Naga



Level -8

Androsphinx, Couatl

[noob]

If there is no full spell casters then bards.
Bards everywhere.
I mean bard is cool at everything at once and now there is nothing better than bards at spell-casting.
Also bards taking the shadow caster prc(or wathever was the name of that class giving the ability to simulate spells) + arcane disciple: luck can then cast miracle over and over with the right feat choice.

[Falontani]

hehe ignore that weird skill on there.


These changes allow for a spellcaster that can effectively do it's job without any spell slots.

[Unavenger]

Weirdly, this makes truenamers rather powerful if only because they're the only people left who can heal most of the conditions the standard adventuring party faces on the regular, although their ability to do so often comes online exceptionally late, it's better than never. Although they get access to Freedom of Movement, albeit only for a single round at a time, as well as a healing utterance, at level 1, they only get to heal ability damage and drain at level 10, can dispel spells (except they don't exist) and grant a new save against spell-like and supernatural abilities at level 10, heal negative levels at level 14, and finally, at level 18, you get the chance to cure any ally who has been ability damaged, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity'd, nauseated, sickened, stunned or poisoned. You also get something that can free a target from enchantments, curses and possession, and if those abilities can't be dispel magic'd, it still works... if your caster level is better than that of the person who put the ability on in the first place (meanwhile, you had an utterance that got rid of any spell or SLA you liked 8 levels ago). If one of the party's items breaks, you can mend that at level 11. And finally, at level 20, you can mend anything that a creature of up to double your CR can mend.

I mention all of this because as far as I can recall, the truenamer is legitimately the best non-vancian non-psionic healer, so this is around the minimum level that you have access to most of these effects.

[noob]

hehe ignore that weird skill on there.


These changes allow for a spellcaster that can effectively do it's job without any spell slots.

Your healer is quite definitively overpowered when compared to non full casting classes even through it does not have spells because it can simulate them by writing scrolls of them.
Like creating Undying which is quite awesome at breaking campaigns and not much else.

for healing after truenamer the next best class is probably divine bard which gets raise dead, restoration, break enchantment, remove disease, cure poisons and cure wounds.

[HouseRules]

Yet my Pseudo E5 Casters, E20 Mundane is not good enough.

[noob]

Yet my Pseudo E5 Casters, E20 Mundane is not good enough.

Sword of the arcane order(ranger or paladin) is op with your rules relatively to bards and other partial casters since you are nearly as good as a full caster(you cap at level 5 spells but up to level 5 spells you have fast progression for the first 10 levels) and have a much spell points per day and have all the good stuff mundane gets.
Also with your rules a wizard or artificer could still go nova with magic items to which it have a better access than a non caster unless you play in magic mart world.
And Sublime chord is also op in your world because it allows to have level 9 spells at cl 10(1 + level in sublime chord) which allows level nine spell access(and do not get me started on cl 2 level 4 spells: the sublime chord can basically spam level 4 spells as much as it wants)
(Ur priest gets the highest level spells too but an ur priest does not have cheap as dirt level 4 spells)

[HouseRules]

Sword of the arcane order(ranger or paladin) is op with your rules relatively to bards and other partial casters since you are nearly as good as a full caster(you cap at level 5 spells but up to level 5 spells you have fast progression for the first 10 levels) and have a much spell points per day and have all the good stuff mundane gets.
Also with your rules a wizard or artificer could still go nova with magic items to which it have a better access than a non caster unless you play in magic mart world.
And Sublime chord is also op in your world because it allows to have level 9 spells at cl 10(1 + level in sublime chord) which allows level nine spell access(and do not get me started on cl 2 level 4 spells: the sublime chord can basically spam level 4 spells as much as it wants)
(Ur priest gets the highest level spells too but an ur priest does not have cheap as dirt level 4 spells)

I didn't realize you could get over 50 caster levels in 20 character levels.

[noob]

I didn't realize you could get over 50 caster levels in 20 character levels.

You said it was CL times spell level then told that prepared casters had access to level 7 spells while spontaneous had access to level 6 spells so it means it was based on level of access for the class casting it and not based on the famous standard caster level for spell which is (spell level*2) -1

I think you should rewrite your rule into "the point cost for a spell is spell level*((spell level*2))" which is a rule that does not allows the abuses that were allowed before by fast progressing prcs.

[HouseRules]

Maximum Number of Spell Points is still limited to Caster Level, the Prepared Casters could cast 3rd level spell ((3*(5+1)) = 18 <= 20), but Spontaneous Caster cannot ((3*(6+1)) 21 > 20) by the time they are Level 20. Therefore, by taking all three points together, these casters are the same strength as E5 casters, but diluted to 20 levels.

[noob]

Maximum Number of Spell Points is still limited to Caster Level, the Prepared Casters could cast 3rd level spell ((3*(5+1)) = 18 <= 20), but Spontaneous Caster cannot ((3*(6+1)) 21 > 20) by the time they are Level 20. Therefore, by taking all three points together, these casters are the same strength as E5 casters, but diluted to 20 levels.

The problem I mentioned is that there is prcs that allows to have level 9 spells with a caster level of 10(or 9 in the case of ur priest). which bugs your formulae(because then you can cast those level 9 spells for cheaper) because your formulae was made with base classes in mind.
So all you need is to fits formulae to be based solely on spell level with something like "the cost of a spell is spell level squared times 2"

[HouseRules]

The problem I mentioned is that there is prcs that allows to have level 9 spells with a caster level of 10(or 9 in the case of ur priest). which bugs your formulae because your formulae was made with base classes in mind.
So all you need is to fits formulae to be based solely on spell level with something like "the cost of a spell is spell level squared times 2"

Entry: Any Non-Divine Non-Caster 5
Ur-Priest
1 × (1+1) = 2 points and caster level, has 5 points and caster level 1
2 × (2+1) = 6 points and caster level, has 10 points and caster level 2
3 × (3+1) = 12 points and caster level, has 15 points and caster level 3
4 × (4+1) = 20 points and caster level, has 20 points and caster level 4
5 × (5+1) = 30 points and caster level, has 25 points and caster level 5
6 × (6+1) = 42 points and caster level, has 30 points and caster level 6
7 × (7+1) = 56 points and caster level, has 35 points and caster level 7
8 × (8+1) = 72 points and caster level, has 40 points and caster level 8
9 × (9+1) = 90 points and caster level, has 45 points and caster level 9
Ur-Priest 10: Has 50 points and caster level 10
+ base points
+ half caster level from other caster classes


Entry: Wizard 5 (need 3rd level spell)/Bard 1 (spontaneous and bardic music)/Anything 4
Sublime Chord
4 × (1+2+1) = 16 points and caster level, has 5 points and caster level 3+
5 × (1+2+1) = 20 points and caster level, has 5 points and caster level 3+
Sublime Chord 2: has 10 points and caster level 4+
6 × (3+2+1) = 36 points and caster level, has 15 points and caster level 5+
Sublime Chord 2: has 20 points and caster level 6+
7 × (5+2+1) = 56 points and caster level, has 25 points and caster level 7+
Sublime Chord 2: has 30 points and caster level 8+
8 × (7+2+1) = 80 points and caster level, has 35 points and caster level 9+
Sublime Chord 2: has 40 points and caster level 10+
9 × (9+2+1) = 108 points and caster level, has 45 points and caster level 11+
Sublime Chord 2: has 50 points and caster level 12+
+ base points
+ half caster level from other caster classes

Early Entry?

[noob]

except it works the following way:
Wizard 9 bard 1 sublime chord progressing bard taken up to level 9.
Sublime chord 9 have a caster level of 10 if you progress a class that had a single caster level before.
Ur priest can have no arcane caster classes before so you enter UR priest at level 6(after 6 levels in cleric) then progress up to level 16 at which point you have level 9 spells but a caster level of 9(because you do not add cleric levels to your ur priest caster level).
you said caster level and not minimum class level for reaching the spell.
If you base costs only on 2*(spell level²) all the problem of cl shenanigans is fixed.

[ShurikVch]

No stranger than older editions allowing non-casters to craft magical items.Crafting pre-3E was pure "Rule 0" territory: player never could know in advance if he(/she) will be able to craft an item or not, let alone - what he(/she) would need to craft it, and how long it will take

Or do you have an explanation for how Bruenor Battlehammer managed to craft a throwing, returning warhammer without a single caster level?He did it by UMDing arcane scroll:
... Then he took the silver scroll tube and gently removed its diamond cap. He sighed in relief when he saw that the parchment inside had survived the decades. Wiping the oily sweat from his hands, he removed the scroll and slowly unrolled it, laying it on the flat of the anvil. At first, the page seemed blank, but gradually the rays of the full moon coaxed its symbols, the secret runes of power, to appear.
These were Bruenor's heritage, and though he had never seen them before, their arcane lines and curves seemed comfortably familiar to him. His hand steady with confidence, the dwarf placed the silver chisel between the symbols he had inscribed of the two gods and began etching the secret runes onto the warhammer. He felt their magic transferring from the parchment through him to the weapon and watched in amazement as each one disappeared from the scroll after he had inscribed it onto the mithral.
...
Trying to sort through his mixed emotions, the dwarf put the silver mallet and chisel back into their golden coffer and replaced the scroll in its tube, though the parchment was blank and the magical runes would never reappear.