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Kurald Galain
2007-09-24, 06:14 AM
I find warlocks to be a very cool and interesting class, but they are generally considered inferior to other casters, and a low-tier class. I would be interested in people's opinions in how to fix this.

The problems appear to be:
*spell-like abilities at will sound cool, but the fact is that casters of moderate level are unlikely to run out of spells.
*eldritch blast damage doesn't cut it.
*while an excellent solo character, the warlock contributes little to the party as a whole

Some solutions would be
*simply giving the warlock more invocations, as he has preciously few of them (12 total) to begin with. For instance, whenever the warlock gains a lesser, greater, or dark invocation, he may take a lower-level invocation in addition. Whenever the warlock gains a least invocation (other than by the above), he may pick a spell on the wizard's 0th-level list, and use that at will.
*eldritch blast should increase every other level, like the rogue's sneak attack, and allow a least invocation to increase blast damage by 1d6.
*Fell Sharing: starting at third level, the warlock may share one of his invocations that would affect only himself with a willing ally. The ally must be touched, and for him the invocation lasts for one minute per warlock level; in addition, the ally takes one point of constitution damage. This ability may be used once per day, and one additional time per day at each odd level.

Aside from that, I've seen many new invocations in this thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=864614).

13_CBS
2007-09-24, 07:14 AM
I, for one, would like to see the Warlock as a viable melee class/melee dip class. Hideous blow seems to provoke AoOs right now, which kind of cuts down on its usefulness, and Eldritch glaive, regretably, requires a full round action to use.

Solo
2007-09-24, 07:17 AM
I would add Cha bonus to damage and allow iterative attacks with EB for starters.

togapika
2007-09-24, 10:41 AM
So you intend to increase the damage of an attack that only requires to hit touch AC and make him able to share with allies in such a way that not till high levels will it be viable to do so?

I'd say perhaps remove the DR to give it more invocations or something as well as removing the "demon pact" flavor

Kurald Galain
2007-09-24, 12:35 PM
So you intend to increase the damage of an attack that only requires to hit touch AC
Yes, but only at higher levels: at low levels, it does increase every other level, at higher levels it does not.


and make him able to share with allies in such a way that not till high levels will it be viable to do so?
What do you mean? Level three is not exactly "high levels".


removing the "demon pact" flavor
Refluffing it is easy. The wizards boards have a faerie-based one.

smart thog
2007-09-26, 03:21 PM
Fey warlocks? Thats just what I need! show me the link!

mabriss lethe
2007-09-27, 11:56 PM
I've thought of a couple things that might up the ante for the warlock.

Idea 1: Fiendish "Wildshape"

They gain a progression of wildshape-like abilities. They're more limited than a druid's, each granting only a single form. Limited usage, though I'm not sure how many it should be. In compensation, the shape either has the "fiendish" template or is a fully fledged fiend. Initial form would be a single small or medium fiendish animal of the player's choice. Once selected, the shape cannot be altered next they could choose something like an Imp or Quasit, growing from there. around level 16 or 18 they could take the form of a Chain Devil or something. Epic wildshape feats would work for the warlock after lvl 20, allowing larger/more powerful demonic or devilish forms. I'm kind of shaky as which levels the progression should fall at.

Idea 2: Proto-sorcery.

A very limited number of times per day equal to the warlock's Cha modifier(min once per day), the warlock may attempt to sculpt raw eldritch energy into the likeness of a wizard's/sorceror's spell. It should follow the similar rules to the warlock's Imbue item class feature to mimic the spell. Either require any material components/foci, etc. or grant a bonus to the roll to mimic the spell. max spell level is based on the damage dealt by the warlock's eldritch blast. I think this should appear early/midway through the warlock's level progression, somewhere around 8 or 9. it should probably come before "Imbue Item" since, in my mind, an ability of this sort would be a prerequisite for doing the same thing to create a magic item.

Karma Guard
2007-09-28, 01:21 AM
Idea 1: Fiendish "Wildshape"


I'd probably give them some limited Wildshape based off the Shapeshifter variant from the PHB2. That variant's pretty balanced (I want to say :V), and it's generic enough and flavorful enough that making it fit to the Warlock wouldn't be so hard.

Just give them a weakened version of them or a slower progression.

edit: Derp, broke the quote.

Collin152
2007-09-28, 06:17 PM
As for buffing Hideous Blow to a useable form, what if you empowered the weapon as a full round action, but thereafter does Eldritch Blast damage with each strike for a decent amount of time (a minute or more)?

raichi
2007-10-09, 08:49 AM
i agree on seeing a fey warlock i've heard of them but never seen them, second my personal revision im trying to get on my dm to accept is 1 have elidrictk blast every 2 levels so it maxes at 10d6 instead of 9 and second adding cha bonus to the damage and 3rd some way to give them more invocations or just giving them eldtitch essences/ blast shapes as class features putting into consideration that dragonfire adept gets it like that and last being able to count even though im not entirely postive if it would even be worth it or not having warlock levels count as fighter level for terms of meeting the requirements for weapon focus/specilization ray weapon

Duke of URL
2007-10-09, 10:01 AM
Perhaps offering two (or more) "paths" of Warlock specialization would be handy -- a "blaster" path could deal more damage, with less variety and flexibility (trade invocations known for additional damage) whereas a "controller" path would eschew damage for additional options (trade damage increases to gain additional invocations.

The easiest way to accomplish that would be to increase the number of invocations known, but require invocations to be learned in order to increase Eldritch Blast damage beyond a far more nominal EB damage progression.

Xefas
2007-10-09, 10:15 AM
I'm currently working on a "Sublime Way" version of a Warlock. Instead of using their corrupt soulstuff to emulate spells, they use maneuvers by channeling their energy via martial training.

It's only like a Warlock in fluff, but so is a Crusader to a Paladin.

Anyway, while this has nothing to do with strengthening the official Warlock, it is a basis for me to say that perhaps you should consider changing his /day stuff to /encounter. That would be Fiendish Resilience (the Fast Healing thing, right?) and if you plan on using Fell Sharing, then that as well. If the Warlock's niche has always been staying power- never running out no matter how many encounters are thrown at you, then it's a little silly to put perfectly useful abilities outside this theme.

Aside from that, I agree with the OP.

vivi
2007-10-09, 10:23 AM
where can i find the stats for the warlock?

RTGoodman
2007-10-09, 10:24 AM
One thing you could do (sorry if it's been done before, but I don't read too many warlock threads) is create a Blast Shape invocation that either splits the blast or that allows you to take a full-round action and make iterative attacks with Eldritch Blasts (but losing, say, 1d6 of damage since you're spreading out the eldritch energy into several blasts). And if not, you could make it a feat (or two-feat tree) that gives iterative attacks.

Also, for those of you interested in Fey-based Warlocks, I think there's stuff for them in Complete Mage. The feats are listed at the bottom of this page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20061010a&page=2), but it's just the table (not the full description).

EDIT:

where can i find the stats for the warlock?

The Warlock class is in Complete Arcane.

Solo
2007-10-09, 10:25 AM
Complete Arcane.

smart thog
2007-10-09, 03:24 PM
Maybe trade the d6 hit dice for a d4 hit dice and give them two invocations per level. that seems fair considering that most invocations suck anyways at the higher levels.

Draz74
2007-10-09, 06:59 PM
One quick way to make the Warlock slightly-too-powerful is easy: just Gestalt-combine him with the Binder. The Binder is already a decent class with very similar flavor (but very different combat style) to the Warlock.

A Binder//Warlock probably won't even use Eldritch Blast much. But just the way he can be a normal Binder, plus use some of the better invocations (e.g. Fell Flight) and class features (e.g. Imbue Item) will make him quite mighty.

If you don't like that option ... the following changes will help (although they sure won't make him equal to a Wizard):
- Make Eldritch Blast progress more regularly (the same rate as Sneak Attack)
- Hideous Blow does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity
- Give 4+Int skill points instead of 2+Int.

FoeHammer
2007-10-10, 10:23 AM
I've thought of a couple things that might up the ante for the warlock.

Idea 1: Fiendish "Wildshape"

They gain a progression of wildshape-like abilities. They're more limited than a druid's, each granting only a single form. Limited usage, though I'm not sure how many it should be. In compensation, the shape either has the "fiendish" template or is a fully fledged fiend. Initial form would be a single small or medium fiendish animal of the player's choice. Once selected, the shape cannot be altered next they could choose something like an Imp or Quasit, growing from there. around level 16 or 18 they could take the form of a Chain Devil or something. Epic wildshape feats would work for the warlock after lvl 20, allowing larger/more powerful demonic or devilish forms. I'm kind of shaky as which levels the progression should fall at.

Idea 2: Proto-sorcery.

A very limited number of times per day equal to the warlock's Cha modifier(min once per day), the warlock may attempt to sculpt raw eldritch energy into the likeness of a wizard's/sorceror's spell. It should follow the similar rules to the warlock's Imbue item class feature to mimic the spell. Either require any material components/foci, etc. or grant a bonus to the roll to mimic the spell. max spell level is based on the damage dealt by the warlock's eldritch blast. I think this should appear early/midway through the warlock's level progression, somewhere around 8 or 9. it should probably come before "Imbue Item" since, in my mind, an ability of this sort would be a prerequisite for doing the same thing to create a magic item.


These both look good. But what about a fiendish template (a la Dragon Disciple PrC)