Reaper Miniatures “Learn to Paint” Kit

[Palanan]

Has anyone tried using one of these all-in-one mini kits? Reaper has a basic (https://www.amazon.com/Reaper-Miniatures-08906-Learn-Paint/dp/B00NTMC49G/) and an intermediate (https://www.amazon.com/Reaper-Layer-Bones-Miniatures-Learn/dp/B01N458GBK/) version, with paints, brushes and minis.

I’m trying to decide if one of these would be worthwhile. I started painting pewter minis a few years ago, but never got very far. Now I have a number of the Reaper Bones plastic minis, and I’m thinking about one of these Reaper kits, probably the intermediate version.

Does anyone have any experience with these? Does the step-by-step painting guide have enough useful information to justify the price?

[Anonymouswizard]

I've used similar kits before, although not these specific ones, and in all honesty they're generally not great.

Now I originally learnt to paint miniatures from my dad. However I only originally started developing proper technique back when when Battle Games in Middle Earth was a thing, which was an introductory wargames magazine based around the old Games Workshop Lord of the Rings game that came with miniatures and small pots of paint. I remember it began extremely basic, you were only going to be doing block colours and began with a bunch of goblins to get your skills sorted out (I can't remember what issue 2 gave you but it was a bunch of 'free peoples' mooks, your first member of the fellowship was Frodo in issue 3). Over it's run it moved onto shading, highlights, overbrushing, giving a bit of advice on blending, and essentially just walked you through until you have an averagely painted collection (it stopped before truly complex techniques such as directional lighting). The advantage of being a slow planned out increase from the very basics to a comfortable standard compared to a single booklet meant it could have a lot more information without being overwhelming. I think I must have painted my saruman miniature about four times by the end of it, and ended up working to have a full Isengard army (which I eventually got rid of when I went to uni and didn't have the space for it).

These days online tutorials have basically replaced the need, but there's very few tutorials for the very basics. Just getting block colours right is an important step to being able to move into more complex techniques.

[Scarlet Knight]

I remember my first instructions were in the Grenadier miniature box and it was a good way to start. Then I think it was the Dragon issues that taught me shading, highlighting, how to do eyes , etc.

I tried to teach my kids how to paint, and was soon reminded how much is just plain doing miniature after miniature until you get the right feel.

Of course, now I've got enough lead on my shelves to qualify as a Superfund site...:smallfrown:

[snowblizz]

I would say the instructions are likely not the most valueable part in pack like that. Getting the tools and appropriate paints are.

Though there's something to be said for having consistency throughout the process (ie minis, paints, tools and advice all line up).

One of the better buys I did was buying the entire Citadel paint range in a Mega Paint Pack (there were somewhat less colours back then), 90% of it went to waste am sure. But I managed to overcome the "well I don't have the exact shade I'm imagining so I can't do anything". Also provided me with basing materials removing another excuse.

That's something a kit like this can fix. You can definitely paint what you get in the colours you are taught.

Ultimately I would say it boils down to how much of a premium over buying the colours would such a kit run?

[Ninja_Prawn]

I learned to paint minis when I was 10, in a games workshop store. I'm given to wonder if a book can really replace human instruction for this particular skill... But it's got to be better than nothing if that's the alternative.

But yes, having a decent set of paints - and especially brushes - is really important. It looks like both these kits only have two brushes in them, possibly with one of them being the same in both kits? That seems like pretty slim pickings. I started out with four unique brushes, all those years ago.

[Anonymouswizard]

I learned to paint minis when I was 10, in a games workshop store. I'm given to wonder if a book can really replace human instruction for this particular skill... But it's got to be better than nothing if that's the alternative.

But yes, having a decent set of paints - and especially brushes - is really important. It looks like both these kits only have two brushes I'm them, possibly with one of them being the same in both kits? That seems like pretty slim pickings. I started out with four unique brushes, all those years ago.

I've always maintained that you need a minimum of three, your standard brush, your fine detail brush, and your overbrushing/drybrushing brush. I'd personally add an additional large brush, and a larger detailing brush.

As I learnt from my dad I began with access to about twenty brushes, and eventually owned six of my own that I'd bought when other brushes wore out.

Oh, and clean your brushes. That's something a lot of instructions fail to mention, you should clean them regularly when using them, not just between colours

Another thing is to remember to prime your miniatures before painting them. I normally used a black spray for even coverage, and used white if I've wanted a light model, but I've known people who used white as their standard base. Also occasionally done it by hand, but using spray paint is so much easier.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Oh, and clean your brushes.

Another thing is to remember to prime your miniatures before painting them.

...Are there people who don't do these things? :smalleek: I mean, the paint won't go onto the minis if you don't prime them!

Maybe this is just a thing with old Citadel paints (I've been out of the hobby for years), but they practically enforced cleaning the brushes every few minutes, because you had to water the paint down very slightly before use. Thus, whenever you ran out of watered-down paint on the palette, you had to clean up so that you wouldn't contaminate the pot when you reached for the next bit of paint.

[Anonymouswizard]

...Are there people who don't do these things? :smalleek: I mean, the paint won't go onto the minis if you don't prime them!

Maybe this is just a thing with old Citadel paints (I've been out of the hobby for years), but they practically enforced cleaning the brushes every few minutes, because you had to water the paint down very slightly before use. Thus, whenever you ran out of watered-down paint on the palette, you had to clean up so that you wouldn't contaminate the pot when you reached for the next bit of paint.

I've met people who didn't Prince, and once decided to test by painting an unprimed mini. You can do it, but it won't look anywhere near as good.

Also, I used to water the old Citadel paints by putting some water in the pot and shaking. Ruined a few brushes before I learnt to clean them often enough, eventually settled into a batch painting rhythm where I'd wash my brush after every mini, but I originally only did so when switching colours or finishing. It's very easy to not realise how much washing is appropriate.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight
Then I think it was the Dragon issues that taught me shading, highlighting, how to do eyes , etc.

Do you happen to remember which issues had those articles? I never thought about Dragon for painting tips, but in hindsight it makes sense.


Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard
Another thing is to remember to prime your miniatures before painting them.

This is apparently a question with the Bones minis, as to whether they need priming at all. One of my players always primes Bones with white paint, which makes sense to me. Pretty sure he does it by hand.


Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard
It's very easy to not realise how much washing is appropriate.

You mean rinsing with water, right?

That’ll be a new one for me. I’ve only painted with enamels before, so I’m used to cleaning brushes with hobby thinner. Water would certainly be cheaper and safer, but it sounds like there’s an art to it.

Watering down paints is also something new to me…again, with enamels I just painted straight from the bottle. But then I never got very far painting minis the first time I tried it.

[Ninja_Prawn]

This is apparently a question with the Bones minis, as to whether they need priming at all. One of my players always primes Bones with white paint, which makes sense to me. Pretty sure he does it by hand.

Mhm, I think they started bringing out special paints for hand-priming at about the same time I stopped painting minis. To be honest, I don't understand why you'd want to do it that way. Sprays are so good!


You mean rinsing with water, right?

That’ll be a new one for me. I’ve only painted with enamels before, so I’m used to cleaning brushes with hobby thinner. Water would certainly be cheaper and safer, but it sounds like there’s an art to it.

Watering down paints is also something new to me…again, with enamels I just painted straight from the bottle. But then I never got very far painting minis the first time I tried it.

Yeah, regular water. It's probably a good thing I never got into enamels - I'm an incorrigible brush-licker. I even caught myself doing it when I repainted my spare bedroom last year!

I'm sure you can paint straight from the bottle, but you get more even coverage and retain more of the figure's detail if you water down. I definitely feel there's an art to it, but maybe that's just me being elitist.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn
I definitely feel there's an art to it, but maybe that's just me being elitist.

Some of the minis I've seen online are astounding in their technique. Absolutely there's an art to it.

As for retaining detail, I'm working with Bones, so they don't have much detail to begin with. :smallfrown:

.

[Scarlet Knight]

Do you happen to remember which issues had those articles? I never thought about Dragon for painting tips, but in hindsight it makes sense.


I remembered Dragon used to put out an index issue and found this: http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/articles-subject.html

The issues I probably remember were 138, 141 and 278 to 290. ( I didn't have any before 66).

[Ninja_Prawn]

Some of the minis I've seen online are astounding in their technique. Absolutely there's an art to it.

...I meant there's an art to mixing up paints. At least, I never used any kind of prescriptive method that could be written down and followed by someone else.

[snowblizz]

You mean rinsing with water, right?

That’ll be a new one for me. I’ve only painted with enamels before, so I’m used to cleaning brushes with hobby thinner. Water would certainly be cheaper and safer, but it sounds like there’s an art to it.

Watering down paints is also something new to me…again, with enamels I just painted straight from the bottle. But then I never got very far painting minis the first time I tried it.
Assuming we are talking about water-based acrylic paint. Which I hope we are as that's the standard of miniature paiting the last 30 years or so.

Well there's an "art" sort of. You kinda have to learn what is appropriate for you, your brushes, your paint and your minis. The main rule is, can always add water, never remove. So start with small drops. No smaller than you're thinking. Nope, still not thinking small enough.

On the upside if it gets too runny it won't cover anything so dry off and go again. Several thin layers are better than 1 thick that covers.

Oh and you mix and water down on a palette, never in the pot or on a mini (unless you *really* know what you do).

And do not you don't want paint-store bought acrylic paint. The miniatures stuff is expensive per volume (the jokes about expensive Citadel paint are numerous) but you will absolutely ruin a miniature if going with household acrylics even if you get something made for canvas painting. I once used primer spray meant for plastic car parts I think and it was almost impossible to get paint to adhere though with a larg emodel I ended up with quite a spectacularly fine blending/shading paintjob since I had to do like 50 layers.

And it pays to check what people say about your brand. Vallejo paints needed to be shaken ungodly amounts, Citadel paints seperate quicker than a pop-starlet and football athlete do in tabloids.

And yes you can learn by reading painting articles. It's how I learned to paint minis. I'm (or was at least) an adequate painter in my Warhammer years. People who hadn't seen the entries in Golden Deamon woulda called me good even.


...I meant there's an art to mixing up paints. At least, I never used any kind of prescriptive method that could be written down and followed by someone else.
Well painting guides do give guidelines you can sorta follow. I know what you mean about mixing paints though, it's hell when you get somethign right but have difficulty replicating it on the other 30 orcs.

[caden_varn]

I certainly never used to bother priming mins, but back when I started they were all metal (at least the ones I got). It worked well enough mostly, although some of the colours I had were a bit watery, so I needed to prime those areas with white paint. It did not work on plastic terribly well, but I didn't do too many of them.
The results look OK to me, but I am certainly an average painter at best.

On the subject of painting minis, what paint range would people suggest? I used Citadel back in the day, but the quality never seemed that great (maybe due to me not priming :smallbiggrin:).
Got some unpainted mins for a game I have been vaguely planning on painting, assuming my old eyes can cope working that close...

[Ninja_Prawn]

On the subject of painting minis, what paint range would people suggest?

I've only used Citadel for minis*, and even then not recently. I found them to be good paints (granted, I always primed), but ridiculously expensive. The spiralling cost of GW products in general was the main reason I quit the hobby.

*Put some Dulux matt emulsion on my walls last year. I definitely think the Citadel paint was better than that. :smalltongue:

[caden_varn]

Citadel paints would be an eye-wateringly expensive way to paint your walls...

[halfeye]

I used to paint Airfix and the like models a long time ago.

Back then, Airfix paints were not that good (particularly there weren't many colours), but Humbrol were better.

I gather Tamiya may be good currently, but that's after my time.

Spray painting is nice for large areas. Airbrushes are expensive, and tricky, but I want to use one.

[qechua]

One of the miniature painting channels I sub to on youtube recently did a "Which paint starter set should you go with as a beginner" video. He arrived at Vallejo, and as someone who's used Vallejo (Model Colour) a lot, I'm inclined to agree. Their only problem colour is yellow, but many other manufacturers have yellow problems as well.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Their only problem colour is yellow, but many other manufacturers have yellow problems as well.

Oh yeah. Citadel yellows are horrible too. I tried them once and it was hell. But why would anyone want to paint anything yellow?

[snowblizz]

Oh yeah. Citadel yellows are horrible too. I tried them once and it was hell. But why would anyone want to paint anything yellow?


Cuz yella iz da best kolor.

-Bad Moon Ork Warboss Rukkduff


Yellow is a weak pigment, hence it's problematic. One of the funnier things is watching a separated pot of Citadel yellow from Foundation (used to be called) or Base (I think now) range. This is paint specifically formulated to go on first over primer. It'll look gloopy black. Then if you stir it around vigorously you get a dullish yellow, because nothing is bright yellow straight outa the pot layer one.

Unless they changed Citadel's again I wouldn't recommend them. They are good paint, but a lot more fiddly than they used to be. Even the standard colours now separate into carrier and pigment. WTF.


Also never ever skimp on priming. It makes a world of difference. It's not wasted paint it's the foundation you buiuld everything on. Might as well build a house and leave out the foundation and see how far that takes you. Sure it'll work ok for awhile and seem like it works, but man will you have problems going forwards.


Not sold on Vallejo either personally, they clump fierce at the bottom of tiny slim bottles and I never good get consistent paint out of the dropper bottles.

Not pained for awhile now so can't give any good recommendation unfortunately. I don't think they make my favourite paints anymore. Cote d'arm, used to supply Citadel paints when they were fliptops.

[Aedilred]

Mhm, I think they started bringing out special paints for hand-priming at about the same time I stopped painting minis. To be honest, I don't understand why you'd want to do it that way. Sprays are so good!

Mainly for convenience, I think. Sprays are great, but you have to do it outside, or have a shed or proper indoor spray area. You then have to arrange the figures appropriately and/or stick them to the base to protect them from blowing over due to the spray or wind... If it's cold or raining outside, or you don't have an outdoor area of your own, it's not always feasible or desirable to spray.




Yeah, regular water. It's probably a good thing I never got into enamels - I'm an incorrigible brush-licker. I even caught myself doing it when I repainted my spare bedroom last year!

I'm sure you can paint straight from the bottle, but you get more even coverage and retain more of the figure's detail if you water down. I definitely feel there's an art to it, but maybe that's just me being elitist.

Watering down is one of those things where I think painters just starting out don't see the point. It's extra faff and the paint is fine as it is! But looking back on the figures I painted with that mindset I want to weep. On large flat areas you can often get away with not watering down because you're not going to lose detail anyway (although the decreased coverage may make the result streakier). On any other surface, it's asking for trouble, but that may be something to learn from experience.


I've only used Citadel for minis*, and even then not recently. I found them to be good paints (granted, I always primed), but ridiculously expensive. The spiralling cost of GW products in general was the main reason I quit the hobby.

*Put some Dulux matt emulsion on my walls last year. I definitely think the Citadel paint was better than that. :smalltongue:

Citadel paints are very good, for the most part (I find some of their metallics a bit dodgy, and some of the washes to be too thin) but as you say they are very expensive. Their Base paints in particular are fantastic for the most part and they seem to have finally cracked yellow as a colour, which has long eluded acrylic paint producers.

Vallejo is the most commonly-cited alternative but I've never used them. Nor have I used Foundry paints, but they are even more expensive per pot than Citadel (albeit the pots are bigger, so value is comparable).

Army Painter's stuff is quite variable, but their washes are generally good.

Coat d'Arms is pretty good. They used to make the paints for Citadel back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth and indeed many of their paint names are still the same, so if you're old enough there might be the bonus of a real nostalgia kick.

Unfortunately, I've not yet found anyone who makes a spray primer that can hold a candle to Citadel's.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yeah, I've mainly used Citadel just to finding even the worst of their paints 'okay' and not managing to find an alternative I like, but they are expensive.

Some of the ones I hated were their washes. I got that they were fairly good, but at the same time when I wanted a wash I tended to just thin doesn't one of the Base paints. Not that I used the technique much, I'd even mostly abandoned overbrushing by the time I'd stopped, preferring to highlight by hand as much as possible.

The hardest part for me was always painting white, because I primed black it involved a lot of stages of grey to make it look right, but I did finally manage to get a good Saruman figure (I should look into starting Lord of the Rings minis again when I have a place of my own).

[Aedilred]

Yeah, I've mainly used Citadel just to finding even the worst of their paints 'okay' and not managing to find an alternative I like, but they are expensive.

Some of the ones I hated were their washes. I got that they were fairly good, but at the same time when I wanted a wash I tended to just thin doesn't one of the Base paints. Not that I used the technique much, I'd even mostly abandoned overbrushing by the time I'd stopped, preferring to highlight by hand as much as possible.

The hardest part for me was always painting white, because I primed black it involved a lot of stages of grey to make it look right, but I did finally manage to get a good Saruman figure (I should look into starting Lord of the Rings minis again when I have a place of my own).

I've switched back and forth between priming black and white a number of times over the course of my painting career. I think I've settled on white for 28mm figures permanently (but I'm on black for 6mm).

The main advantage of black is that if you find you've missed a slight patch while blocking in colours, you can usually get away with it at least from a distance, whereas with white it just looks awful. That makes black a more reliable option when you're panting large numbers of figures and not trying to make each one into a work of art. (This is why I use it for 6mm figures).

With white, although it's a bit more work to get the figure looking finished from a distance, you can get good coverage much more easily on almost all colours. This leads to a much brighter finish with the colours popping better. Even if I want a "muddy" effect I now think it's better to start bright and dull down rather than try to highlight up from black.

That said, painting white white is still a pain even over white undercoat, because it's hard to shade without looking either grey or off-white. And if the undercoat is white, you also need to be careful that the area doesn't just look unfinished(!)

I make extensive use of washes and glazes largely because of the white undercoats, I think. Over black it's not so important if you layer properly in the first place. In general I find the Citadel washes a bit too subtle for me (for brown and black washes I now use Army Painter), although I like the glazes.

[Anonymouswizard]

I've switched back and forth between priming black and white a number of times over the course of my painting career. I think I've settled on white for 28mm figures permanently (but I'm on black for 6mm).

The main advantage of black is that if you find you've missed a slight patch while blocking in colours, you can usually get away with it at least from a distance, whereas with white it just looks awful. That makes black a more reliable option when you're panting large numbers of figures and not trying to make each one into a work of art. (This is why I use it for 6mm figures).

With white, although it's a bit more work to get the figure looking finished from a distance, you can get good coverage much more easily on almost all colours. This leads to a much brighter finish with the colours popping better. Even if I want a "muddy" effect I now think it's better to start bright and dull down rather than try to highlight up from black.

That said, painting white white is still a pain even over white undercoat, because it's hard to shade without looking either grey or off-white. And if the undercoat is white, you also need to be careful that the area doesn't just look unfinished(!)

I make extensive use of washes and glazes largely because of the white undercoats, I think. Over black it's not so important if you layer properly in the first place. In general I find the Citadel washes a bit too subtle for me (for brown and black washes I now use Army Painter), although I like the glazes.

TBH the main reasons I tended to prime black were that I batch paint a lot (anything other than 'characters' I tended to do in groups of five to ten), and I'm a bit dyspraxic and made a lot of mistakes starting out, discovering quickly that I had an easier time correcting on black than on white. It was always what confused me about guides suggesting beginners prime in white, sure it can result in a better looking figure, but I was always used to seeing black as giving the better learning experience.

This affected my painting style in a large way, even on the few occasions I primed white I'd paint from dark to light before overbrushing any 'grime' I wanted (which was very rarely the case, I wasn't planning to display anybody and so the minis were all painted to look good in formation). The first step was always identifying how many layers of highlights I wanted (2 for hair, sometimes three for skin, at least three for armour, four or more for cloth) and working out what I wanted the main colour to be so I could start darker and end lighter. Washes were very rare and generally used when I couldn't get a decent effect with flat colours. So yeah, my style included a lot of layering, a fair amount of touching up, and other techniques based on starting from black.

On the other hand priming white does lead to a much better looking figure and generally more vivid colours, I just generally didn't ever have the need for it*. I have seen it done really well though, my dad has a copy of Zombicide with all the miniatures painted to 'display' quality (oh boy are there a lot of washes on those figures), and I can appreciate the preference.

That's not even getting onto priming orange, brown, or silver, all of which I've seen. Although those admittedly were for very specific looks.

Yeah, there's a lot of subtle bits of minis that people who don't do it can't wrap their heads around. I once had somebody ask me why it mattered what colour was used for priming, surely you can just paint over white with black and black with white if you need it (admittedly yes you can, that's how you get some of the worst frankenminis I ever painted).

* Although it's not like you can't black an amazing looking miniature from black, I've seen it done, it's just not as easy.

[Scarlet Knight]

Funny, I just assumed everyone primed in gray. :smallconfused:

I just had a flashback to when I first started, and I wanted to use the "good stuff" so my figures would look like someone painted them who knew what he was doing. Who remembers Testor enamel model paints? Great cover, multitude of shades. The figures looked so good.

Then I discovered how much easier it was to paint with acrylic and use water instead of thinner to clean up. I haven't used Testors since.

Now I understand Testors makes acrylic; has anyone used them and how are they?

[AdmiralCheez]

Now I understand Testors makes acrylic; has anyone used them and how are they?

I use the Testors acrylic. I like them, but to be fair, I haven't used any other brand, so I don't have any reference to compare it to. I didn't want to do enamel, and Citadel stuff was too expensive, so I figured it would be a good place to start.

Some certain colors have issues where they need extra mixing to get rid of clumpy, sticky bits, especially the metallic ones, but overall, I've been satisfied with the outcome.

[Aedilred]

Funny, I just assumed everyone primed in gray. :smallconfused:

I just had a flashback to when I first started, and I wanted to use the "good stuff" so my figures would look like someone painted them who knew what he was doing. Who remembers Testor enamel model paints? Great cover, multitude of shades. The figures looked so good.

Then I discovered how much easier it was to paint with acrylic and use water instead of thinner to clean up. I haven't used Testors since.

Now I understand Testors makes acrylic; has anyone used them and how are they?

Some people swear by priming in grey. With enamels (see below) I will because that's the standard primer colour but when it comes to acrylics, I find that grey provides the same disadvantages of both white and black - the same danger of missing spots glaring at you as with white, with some of the difficulty of getting colours really bright that black gives.

It may depend on what you're used to painting with, though. When I began using acrylics, it was all Citadel and recommended undercoat colours were white or black - which were also the only sprays Citadel sold. So that's what I used.

I don't know about Testors (are they in the UK?) but I started out with Humbrol enamels which were indeed great... up to a point. I still prime my 1:2400 scale ships with enamels, but they are so much faff to use relative to acrylics and modern acrylics sufficiently good that 99% of the time there is no reason even to consider using anything but acrylics.

The quality of a given paint is going to come down largely to the pigment:base ratio and the granularity of pigment. Quality of binder can also be significant, but you can mitigate for that by using a specialist acrylic thinner rather than water. Unfortunately, this information is not readily available for most manufacturers. It is unlikely that paint intended for use with detailed modelling (as opposed to craft paints for larger projects) is going to skimp so badly on the pigment that it's really noticeable but the quality might be slightly lower, or the binder slightly less qualitative or it might just come down to personal preference. You might just have to suck it and see...