Illusion Spells' Reality at Touch.

[TheRageee]

Hello guys.

One casts a hypotethical Illusion (Pattern) [Mind-affecting] and I fail the Will saving throw.
If i touch the effect of the Illusion (for example, a wall), will I feel the wall as tough? Or will I pass through since it's a Pattern and therefore it's not real? If someone grapples me and launches me through the wall, while I believe it's a real one, will I just find myself on the other side of the wall (and then disbelieving the spell) or I'll see myself before the wall and feel the stone on my body?

[DeTess]

You get to make the save when you interact with it. If you fail the save you rationalize why you can't interact with it. That rationalization could be to trick you in thinking you did touch it, or to sue your example that you go thrown so hard that you passed through the illusion.

[Darth Ultron]

You get to make the save when you interact with it. If you fail the save you rationalize why you can't interact with it.

But in on way is the illusion ''real", no matter the save. So if you set a cup on an illusionary table, it will fall to the floor as soon as you let go of it.

The trick is, maybe half the time, if you failed your save, you won't see the failure of the illusion...you will see something that reinforces the illusion. So you'd think the cup rolled or fell off the illusory table...but not through it.

There is a big limit to this. You can ''pretend" to lean on a illusion of a wall that you think is real....but if you were to be tosses across the room at the illusion of the wall...you'd go right through it, of course.

Though, note, most of the pattern type illusions don't make objects you can see like a wall anyway.

[Duke of Urrel]

I know of no Illusion spell of the Pattern subschool that allows you a Will save to disbelieve.

As far as I know, Will saves to disbelieve belong to Illusion spells of the Figment, Glamer, Phantasm, and Shadow subschools only. Look at the Saving Throw line in the statistics block of each Pattern spell in the SRD and you will see that the word "disbelief" does not appear there.

In my understanding, a Pattern spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#pattern) affects you whether you believe it is "real" or not. In every case, a Pattern spell is a Mind-Affecting spell whose visible effect messes with your mind as soon as you see it. Either your Will save succeeds or you are affected. It doesn't help if you touch the effect, which usually consists only of color and light anyway.

On the other hand, I cannot imagine how a Pattern spell could ever affect you without allowing you a Will save. Unless you study or interact with the effect of an illusion created by a spell of the Figment, Glamer, Phantasm, or Shadow subschool (or the effect interacts with you), you get no Will save at all to disbelieve it. In contrast, if you can see the effect of a Pattern spell, it automatically affects you and you automatically make a Will save. You cannot be denied this Will save unless you cannot see the effect of the Pattern spell, in which case the spell (in every case that I know of) has zero effect on you.

EDIT: Interestingly, the Scintillating Pattern spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scintillatingPattern.htm) doesn't even allow you a Will save!

[Jack_Simth]

Hello guys.

One casts a hypotethical Illusion (Pattern) [Mind-affecting] and I fail the Will saving throw.
If i touch the effect of the Illusion (for example, a wall), will I feel the wall as tough? Or will I pass through since it's a Pattern and therefore it's not real? If someone grapples me and launches me through the wall, while I believe it's a real one, will I just find myself on the other side of the wall (and then disbelieving the spell) or I'll see myself before the wall and feel the stone on my body?

... as Duke of Urrel said: There aren't any Illusion(Pattern) spells that make fake walls (or that are will disbelief in general). Something like Illusory Wall is an Illusion(Figment). And yes, it has Will Disbelief. If you interact with it and fail your save (say, because they put a thin illusion of a tapestry over a wall, and you stop to examine it in detail), then you think it's real. However: If faced with proof it's not real, no save is needed. If instead of a tapestry, that illusion is of a blank wall where there is actually a turn in the hallway, and someone bull-rushes you through 'the wall'? You've got proof enough that it's not real: You auto-pass the save (well, ignoring things like the Chains of Disbelief ACF for illusionists found in Unearthed Arcana).