The Sunblade & Vampires

[jaappleton]

If I'm not mistaken, this works. But I wanted to run it by everyone to make sure, before I try it.

The Sunblade emits sunlight. Bright light in a 15ft radius, and dim light for an additional 15. You can actually alter it to be 30ft of bright light, and 30ft of dim light beyond that, for a total of 60'.

Now, vampires don't like sunlight. If they start their turn in it, they take 20 Radiant damage. Right?

So.... For that to happen... I don't even need to be proficient with the Sunblade. Proficiency merely means I can add my proficiency bonus to attack rolls. I can be proficient with NO weapons at all, and still am able to turn it on, and alter the sunlight effect. Is that right?

Additionally, this is one part I'm not clear on: Do vampires take damage even while in the dim light aspect of the Sunblade?

[Unoriginal]

Yes, the sunlight damages the vampires, independently of using the weapon.

[Man_Over_Game]

For the information on Vampires, "Sunlight" isn't really described all that much. Lights from stars and the reflection of the moon are both considered real forms of "sunlight", but are implied to not be harmful. There's no mention of whether or not bright or dim lighting deals any damage.

Rules As Written, dim lighting would be enough because the Vampire's vulnerability to Sunlight has no mention on severity of the light, so it must apply in all scenarios where Sunlight is mentionable. But because the Sunblade doesn't say it sheds light past its dim lighting radius, then it wouldn't shed Sunlight further than it sheds the dim lighting.

Rules As Intended, there's no real support on this in either direction.

Rules As By Me, I'd say that Vampires take their 20 damage in Bright Lighting from Sunlight, but have their Disadvantage while in Bright or Dim Lighting from Sunlight.


As for who can use the sword: Anybody! Proficiency just implies you know how to fight with a sword, but that isn't required for you to activate the sword's non-swordy abilities (like being able to shed sunlight).

[GlenSmash!]

First question seems to work just fine.

Second question is firmly in ask your DM territory. I would rule that the Dim light from the sun blade would be like being in the shade on a sunny day. So I'd rule that it's not direct sunlight. But I've got no RAW to support me as far as I know.

[jaappleton]

Well **** me sideways...

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1084900362648137729

Jeremy Crawford: The light emitted by a sunblade is sunlight, whether that light is bright or dim. If only the bright light was sunlight, the item's description would say so.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Oh yeah, that thing straight messes up vampires. After seeing how early access to the Sunsword wrecked face in Curse of Strahd, I've made sure any vampires I table comes with disposable minions that can target and try to disarm anyone with related weapons or abilities. Because otherwise they're absolutely unthreatening.

[GlenSmash!]

Well **** me sideways...

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1084900362648137729

Jeremy Crawford: The light emitted by a sunblade is sunlight, whether that light is bright or dim. If only the bright light was sunlight, the item's description would say so.

Works for me.

[Chronos]

On the other hand: Doesn't a Sunblade require attunement? Do you really want to attune to a weapon you can't wield effectively?

On the gripping hand: A Sunblade counts as both a longsword and a short sword for proficiency purposes, and most classes are proficient with short swords.

[Lord Vukodlak]

On the other hand: Doesn't a Sunblade require attunement? Do you really want to attune to a weapon you can't wield effectively?

On the gripping hand: A Sunblade counts as both a longsword and a short sword for proficiency purposes, and most classes are proficient with short swords.

The Sunblade has always had that feature, in 2nd edition it functioned as both a bastard sword or a shortsword.

[PeteNutButter]

The sunlight caused by this also effects races with sunlight sensitivity, such as drow, which caused my DM in OotA much annoyance.

In general its situational, but cripplingly overpowered when it comes up. IMO that's what makes it one of the few attunement weapons that are worth the slot (when given the choice of instead taking a +x weapon).

[Mad_Saulot]

Regarding the sunblade I'd rule that you must be proficient with the weapon in order to attune to it and you cant activate the weapon if you arent attuned, so no I doubt I'd allow that, unless the weapon was sentient and decided to activate itself in a high drama emergency but you couldnt count on that.

Regarding vampire I tend to mess with the vampire template, Id say lesser vamps would be burned by the sword but master vamps would just feel uncomfortable ir disadvantage when too close. But my vamps are often wild hybrids some of which are burned by light, some by water some are hurt by their reflection and I give them different advantages like not all can turn to mist, some can fly, some are shapeshifters, I avoid the "classic" vamp template as itsa bit OP and tbh boring.

[jaappleton]

Full disclosure as to what I'm aiming for here:

My table is playing Curse of Strahd.

NONE of us.... And I mean it. NONE of us... are build to wield the Sun Sword.

Dragonborn Moon Druid (Why?)
Drow Long Death Monk (Sunlight Sensitivity)
VHuman Hand Crossbow Battlemaster (Long range, heavily invested into the Hand Xbow / SS combo)
VHuman Homebrew Vampire Slayer (Whip and boomerang cross, heavily invested in those with some homebrewed Feats)
Changeling Divine Soul Sorc (d6 HD? Not going near a vampire)
Grung Rogue (Relies very heavily on the 'cunning action to hide')

And since vampires only take damage when they start their turn in sunlight... The Grung running back to hide somewhere, while emitting massive light, doesn't really work.

I'm planning on hanging up my Moon Druid soon. I only picked Moon Druid because of Death House, and I wanted us to get through that. Damn place is outright nasty.

So I figure Cleric. While I won't get two attacks, I'll have huge AC and can run into a vampires face with the sword and cast Spirit Guardians. That's 3d8 (at 3rd level) +20 Radiant (Sunblade). And then I can attack with it from there if I need to.

[Keravath]

Full disclosure as to what I'm aiming for here:

My table is playing Curse of Strahd.

NONE of us.... And I mean it. NONE of us... are build to wield the Sun Sword.

Dragonborn Moon Druid (Why?)
Drow Long Death Monk (Sunlight Sensitivity)
VHuman Hand Crossbow Battlemaster (Long range, heavily invested into the Hand Xbow / SS combo)
VHuman Homebrew Vampire Slayer (Whip and boomerang cross, heavily invested in those with some homebrewed Feats)
Changeling Divine Soul Sorc (d6 HD? Not going near a vampire)
Grung Rogue (Relies very heavily on the 'cunning action to hide')

And since vampires only take damage when they start their turn in sunlight... The Grung running back to hide somewhere, while emitting massive light, doesn't really work.

I'm planning on hanging up my Moon Druid soon. I only picked Moon Druid because of Death House, and I wanted us to get through that. Damn place is outright nasty.

So I figure Cleric. While I won't get two attacks, I'll have huge AC and can run into a vampires face with the sword and cast Spirit Guardians. That's 3d8 (at 3rd level) +20 Radiant (Sunblade). And then I can attack with it from there if I need to.

Just to comment. The sword emits sunlight in a 60' radius at maxium distance. The sunlight will do 20 radiant damage to vampires and prevent them from regenerating. You don't even need to attack with it. The sorcerer could stand at the back and hold the sword (assuming they can attune to it) and cast whatever spells or cantrips they like while providing a 60' radius protection for the entire party.

In addition, if your "vampire slayer" is being played at all in character ... I can't see any way they character could turn down a sunblade. "Oh I have this cool whip and boomerang cross ... OR ... I have this cool +2 sword that does an additional d8 vs undead AND emits sunlight in a 60' radius causing additional sunlight damage AND preventing regeneration. Nah ... I'd rather stick to my whip and boomerang since it is much more gentle on the vampires ... I wouldn't want to hurt them too much". Of course, how someone wants to play their character is up to them and maybe the "vampire slayer" isn't really a fighting class and has no real weapon proficiencies ... but honestly, if the vampire slayer is proficient with the sword ... I can't really see them not taking it since it is probably the MOST effective vampire slaying weapon available in the game (On the other hand ... it might mess up the drow in your party a little bit).

[Trustypeaches]

On the other hand: Doesn't a Sunblade require attunement? Do you really want to attune to a weapon you can't wield effectively?

On the gripping hand: A Sunblade counts as both a longsword and a short sword for proficiency purposes, and most classes are proficient with short swords.None of the full casters or Warlocks are natively proficient with Shortswords. They are a martial weapon, after all.

That said it’s probably worth it for most parties to attune to it unless you’re completely overflowing with magic items, even if just to use as a fancy lightstick.

[Mad_Saulot]

Just have the slayer carry the sword for actual vampire slaying and he can use his silly boomerang/whip on thralls and random monsters.

[Sigreid]

None of the full casters or Warlocks are natively proficient with Shortswords. They are a martial weapon, after all.

That said it’s probably worth it for most parties to attune to it unless you’re completely overflowing with magic items, even if just to use as a fancy lightstick.

Hexblade is.

[Tanarii]

Hexblade is.
Valor Bard. Swords Bard. Warlock's Pact Boon of the Blade. Tempest & War Domains.

Of the six full caster classes, only Druids, Sorcs, & Wizards get left out in the sunblade-less cold. And Wiz has Bladesinger if you're in the Realms.

It's possible that "natively proficient" was supposed to mean "not including class or subclass features". But that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Unoriginal]

Couldn't the Grung Rogue just turn off the Sunblade/put the sword in a scabbard when they Hide and unleash its full might when they don't?

Iajutsu with a Sunblade sounds like it'd be impressive visually. And the vampires don't need to be in the sunlight for the full round.

[Trustypeaches]

Valor Bard. Swords Bard. Warlock's Pact Boon of the Blade. Tempest & War Domains.

Of the six full caster classes, only Druids, Sorcs, & Wizards get left out in the sunblade-less cold. And Wiz has Bladesinger if you're in the Realms.

It's possible that "natively proficient" was supposed to mean "not including class or subclass features". But that doesn't make a whole lot of sense."natively proficient" is meant to exclude subclass features, I'm basically saying that half the classes don't get shortsword proficiency baseline. They can invest class resources to pick it up, sure.

[jaappleton]

Couldn't the Grung Rogue just turn off the Sunblade/put the sword in a scabbard when they Hide and unleash its full might when they don't?

Iajutsu with a Sunblade sounds like it'd be impressive visually. And the vampires don't need to be in the sunlight for the full round.

They have to start their turn in sunlight.

[RedMage125]

VHuman Homebrew Vampire Slayer (Whip and boomerang cross, heavily invested in those with some homebrewed Feats)


Is that the Sanctified Hunter from the MFoV people? I gave some feedback on that last year with the lead designer of that class, I'd be interested to see if they took it.

It's basically a Belmont from Castlevania.

[Chronos]

All bards get shortsword (and longsword and rapier) proficiency, not just Valor.

[jaappleton]

Is that the Sanctified Hunter from the MFoV people? I gave some feedback on that last year with the lead designer of that class, I'd be interested to see if they took it.

It's basically a Belmont from Castlevania.

Yup! It is indeed the Sanctified Hunter.

[Keravath]

They have to start their turn in sunlight.

Which is pretty easy to force if you walk within 60' of one on your turn with your dazzling sunblade out ... when their initiative comes around the vampire takes the damage and doesn't regenerate.

P.S. I just googled the Sanctified Hunter fighter archetype and don't really understand why the character would not be all over a sunblade especially in the demi-plane of dread. Sunblade in one hand ... whip in the other :)

[Sigreid]

The cool guy tactic is to trap the vampire in a wall of force shaped into a box, with the fighter with the sun sword in it with him.

[RedMage125]

Yup! It is indeed the Sanctified Hunter.

Ugh, I went and looked at it, and even after my discussions with the writer where he agreed some things needed to change, he changed nothing.

I don't know if you remember the "Trevor Belmot" thread about a year ago (you posted on it, I just went and looked it up to compare the old SH to the new one), but there were some serious issues with the new mechanics of that class, balance-wise. And even more issues with that class being used to thematically represent a Belmont.

[jaappleton]

Ugh, I went and looked at it, and even after my discussions with the writer where he agreed some things needed to change, he changed nothing.

I don't know if you remember the "Trevor Belmot" thread about a year ago (you posted on it, I just went and looked it up to compare the old SH to the new one), but there were some serious issues with the new mechanics of that class, balance-wise. And even more issues with that class being used to thematically represent a Belmont.

Our table modified it a bit ourselves. The "detect everything within a mile" went down to 50ft. Personally I wanted to just hand the player the Monster Slayer Fighter from Gothic Heroes, but alas...

[MeeposFire]

Also various races get prof in these weapons as well.

[jaappleton]

Also various races get prof in these weapons as well.

Githyanki
Hobgoblin
VHuman w/ Weapon Master
Eladrin (DMG)
High Elf

.....I believe that’s all of them.

[tieren]

Sunblade is a hilt that makes a blade of light . In my campaign I am fluffing it to make any kind of blade the wielder declares (when he attunes to it), so it can be an axe or rapier, or dagger, etc...

[Crgaston]

Githyanki
Hobgoblin
VHuman w/ Weapon Master
Eladrin (DMG)
High Elf

.....I believe that’s all of them.

Don't forget Wood Elves and Drow

[jaappleton]

Don't forget Wood Elves and Drow

Drow only get Short Swords and not Long Swords (they get Rapiers instead), but you’re correct. I’d forgotten about them.

[MeeposFire]

Drow only get Short Swords and not Long Swords (they get Rapiers instead), but you’re correct. I’d forgotten about them.

Yea but for the sunblade short sword is good enough.

[jaappleton]

Yea but for the sunblade short sword is good enough.

But it’s a Drow. Sunblades create Sunlight. Drow have Sunlight Sensitivity.

So.... I mean, yeah they could use it, but.... Could they USE it?

[Chronos]

Having to squint and rub your eyes is an acceptable tradeoff for totally wrecking a vampire.

Though, versus anything but a vampire, a drow would probably prefer to not use the sunblade.

[GlenSmash!]

But it’s a Drow. Sunblades create Sunlight. Drow have Sunlight Sensitivity.

So.... I mean, yeah they could use it, but.... Could they USE it?

If going with the "pull out the Sunsword but don't swing it" strategy on say a wizard or other spellcaster sure. Just use spells that don't require attack rolls.

Edit, so yeah proficiency is not super helpful.

[PeteNutButter]

If a pure wizard is using a sunblade just to create the effect against vampires, there's a good chance your party needs a better loot distribution system.

It's hard to believe someone in the party wouldn't want that 2d8 + 2 + str/dex mod pure radiant damage per attack against a vampire, when its by default usable by 75% of classes.

[GlenSmash!]

If a pure wizard is using a sunblade just to create the effect against vampires, there's a good chance your party needs a better loot distribution system.

Ha! very true.

[Sigreid]

If a pure wizard is using a sunblade just to create the effect against vampires, there's a good chance your party needs a better loot distribution system.



Are you trying to imply that my proposed loot system of whatever I find I keep and whatever you find I keep is flawed?

[PeteNutButter]

Are you trying to imply that my proposed loot system of whatever I find I keep and whatever you find I keep is flawed?

Just so long as I can keep everything the party never finds. It's mine. Wherever it is.

[Sahe]

The Vamp Hunter should be all over it. When we started Curse of Strahd I thought about doing a Vamp Hunter (Revised Ranger Chassis) but decided against going instead with a Half-Vampire Wizard and former Minion of Strahd who got recently cured and is human again...but I digress.

If the Vamp Hunter doesn't want it the Drow just might take it anyway. Considering the range of the sunlight, chances are he's in it anyway unless he wants to just sulk in the shadows instead of beating up on the Vamp.

[Joe the Rat]

Party Side:
You've got people who are proficient, the rogue can just stand there and throw pointed sticks for damage if need be.
Vampire hunter should be all over that.
Anyone who only needs one hand to work (casters) creates the torch zone.
The Battlemaster, while not specced for melee, is still a Fighter and Battle Master with a Finesse Weapon. He'll do fine. It's what Fighters do - fight with anything.
Dragonborn Druid - no one to blame but yourself. but it sounds fun.

Short version: The Sun Blade is such a potent addition to the arsenal that someone should attune to it.

There's a nice list of minions to bring with Count Chocula. Even non-undead ones, to draw down the sword's value. And Captain Z hates that sword. Once he knows the party has it, he'll load up for bear. I'd recommend werewolves because why the hell not. Sun Blade is going to do a number of the undead, so shapechangers will be fine, so long as the party doesn't have a sentient silver weapon with shapeshifter detection and moonbeam powers.

What the hell was I thinking?

[jaappleton]

Lets say the Sun Sword is given to the Vampire Hunter. Ok? For arguments sake.

Would the best possible Cleric for the group become an Order Domain Cleric, for their ability to have an ally attack as a Reaction? That's one more hit with the Sunblade.

Now, lets say I'm an Order Cleric with Alert. I can't be surprised. If a vampire approaches, I can cast a spell on the Sunsword wielder, and have them try to attack. Even if they miss, the sword is now out, imposing its effects.

Right?

[OvisCaedo]

It takes a bonus action to activate the sun blade, so I don't think they could reaction attack with it unless it was already turned on. Of course, it has no listed limit for how long it can be activated, and doesn't really say anything about whether or not you're allowed to just safely sheath a "blade of pure radiance".

edit: also, generally speaking, you're probably not actually allowed to draw a weapon as part of a reaction attack anyhow...? Free object interaction is probably only on your own turn... But I haven't double checked this.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Lets say the Sun Sword is given to the Vampire Hunter. Ok? For arguments sake.

Would the best possible Cleric for the group become an Order Domain Cleric, for their ability to have an ally attack as a Reaction? That's one more hit with the Sunblade.

Now, lets say I'm an Order Cleric with Alert. I can't be surprised. If a vampire approaches, I can cast a spell on the Sunsword wielder, and have them try to attack. Even if they miss, the sword is now out, imposing its effects.

Right?

It takes a bonus action to light the sword, unless your DM ignores this restriction or your party member has activated the sword prior to fighting, this would not work.

[jaappleton]

It takes a bonus action to activate the sun blade, so I don't think they could reaction attack with it unless it was already turned on. Of course, it has no listed limit for how long it can be activated, and doesn't really say anything about whether or not you're allowed to just safely sheath a "blade of pure radiance".

edit: also, generally speaking, you're probably not actually allowed to draw a weapon as part of a reaction attack anyhow...? Free object interaction is probably only on your own turn... But I haven't double checked this.

Fair points.... Hmm. Damn. Thought I had something great there.

[Chronos]

On the other hand, any party that includes humans (or halflings) probably needs to keep a light source around anyway. Why not just use the drawn/ignited sword as your torch?

[Laserlight]

On the other hand, any party that includes humans (or halflings) probably needs to keep a light source around anyway. Why not just use the drawn/ignited sword as your torch?

If Strahd already knows you have it, sure. If you have kept it a secret, perhaps not. Our paladin has refused to use the Sunblade until we actually got into it with Strahd; as far as we could tell, Strahd didn't know we had it until she pulled it out and lit it.

[ProsecutorGodot]

If Strahd already knows you have it, sure. If you have kept it a secret, perhaps not. Our paladin has refused to use the Sunblade until we actually got into it with Strahd; as far as we could tell, Strahd didn't know we had it until she pulled it out and lit it.

I'd find it difficult to believe that Strahd wouldn't have known about it. The issue would primarily have been him dealing with it. It's implied that he can't even stand the sight of it since every mention of it is him passing it over to someone else to deal with.

Curse of Strahd has a lot of opportunities for your DM to be mean about how Strahd interacts with your party. As a DM, you're encouraged to send his cronies at them not in an attempt to kill or even injure them but to simply gather personal belongings or hair clippings so that Strahd can use Scrying on the party with better results.

Not that I don't think this was a pretty cool way to go about it, if the players in my campaign had gone for this option (unfortunately impossible since the Taroka reading put the Sunblade in Lady Wachter's possession) I would have gone out of my way to make sure they had opportunities to maintain that advantage.

[HappyDaze]

Despite JC's ruling, I would consider house ruling that the dim light area only inflicted half damage (so 10) on vampires plus the effect of hampering vampires' regeneration.