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View Full Version : How can we make ridiculous caster level / bonuses for healing??



animewatcha
2019-01-14, 10:43 PM
We can make ridiculous caster level for lots of different things like blasting or even psiotheurges. However, let's look at the frowned upon healbot. How can come up with ridiculous caster levels, bonuses, modifiers, etc. for Healers? Assuming that a few things like bard healing hymn not being capped, how can make say a Cure Light Wounds heal for over 100 hitpoints?

This assumes a level 20 build. Dragon magazine, archive, and WOTC books are okay.

Uncle Pine
2019-01-15, 02:33 AM
From the Dragonlance Campaign Setting:

Reserves of Strength

When you cast a spell, you can choose to increase its effective caster level at the cost of exausting yourself.

Prerequisite
Iron Will (PH) , Spellcaster Level 1

Benefit
When you cast a spell, you can decide to increase your caster level with that spell by 1, 2, or 3, but you are stunned for an equal number of rounds immediately after doing so. Your increased caster level affects all level-based variables of the spell, including range, area of effect, spell penetration, and the difficulty of dispelling the spell. You can exceed the normal level-fixed limits of a spell with this feat, so a 9th-level wizard could use Reserves of Strength to cast a Fireball as a 12th-level wizard and deal 12d6 fire damage.

If you are not subject to stunning effects, you instead suffer 1d6, 3d6, or 5d6 points of damage when you call upon your Reserves of Strength feat.
(Emphasis mine)

Depending on your interpretation of the underlined sentence, you can use this feat to either make a Cure Light Wound spell heal 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +8) or 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (with no maximum). In the latter case, reaching the 100 mark is just a matter of pumping your CL up to that value with your method of choice (i.e. alternating normal/greater consumptive fields coupled with a bag of rat).

CactusAir
2019-01-15, 03:20 AM
Therapeutic Mantle, from Magic of Incarnum, gives you extra healing, and also increases CL for healing.

You can get it from a feat, too.

Khedrac
2019-01-15, 03:44 AM
On the subject of caster level boosts - if you cast healing lorecall and use your ranks in the heal skill instead - this is not too difficult to have maxed at character level + 3, though it is hard to increase above that - the question becomes " will any of the caster level boosts stack with healing lorecall?

Ignoring the above, is it worth playing a Healer not a cleric? This gives us + Chr bonus on spells that cure hit point damage.

The feat Augment Healing adds twice the level of the spell to the amount healed (though Healers get a lot of the spells one level earlier).

If we then take the prestige class Singer of Concordance to level 6 (or have one standing within 10 feet) we add another 1d8 to the amount healed.

Hard to stack with Singer of Concordance (so get that aura from a friend) but Combat Medic 5 allows the healing spell to grant 13 temporary hit points as well.

ottdmk
2019-01-15, 01:32 PM
Therapeutic Mantle, from Magic of Incarnum, gives you extra healing, and also increases CL for healing.

You can get it from a feat, too.Won't work very well. Therapeutic Mantle only helps heal you, unless you Chakra Bind it. So you're looking at a minimum of two feats, IF you go with the interpretation that the Open X Chakra feats give you a Chakra Bind slot (I for one do not.)

If you go Sapphire Hierarch though (two level commitment to an Incarnate minimum) Therapeutic Mantle will definitely help you out with that, as you'll have the Bind slots and the Essentia to power it properly (still gonna need Open Lesser Chakra feat though, because although Sapphire Hierarch gives Bind slots, it doesn't open up any new Bind locations.)

Ruethgar
2019-01-15, 02:08 PM
It’s a small boon, but the healing side effect can be added twice for another +2d4 untyped healing.

If you can go with PF, a single Vitalist level plus Fey Foundling with a Fey Foundling minion can heal niegh infinite from any sources including CLW.

Blackhawk748
2019-01-16, 06:06 PM
Kingdoms of Kalamar has the Mercy Domain that gives you a +2 to your caster level for Conjuration Healing spells. It also has the Merciful Fate Cleric ACF that lowers your HD, messiles with your armor proofs and skills but let's you cast Conjuration Healing spells one level lower. So Cure Moderate Wounds is a 1st level spell

Powerdork
2019-01-16, 06:30 PM
IF you go with the interpretation that the Open X Chakra feats give you a Chakra Bind slot

You're making that a bigger if than it needs to be.


SHAPE SOULMELD
You gain the ability to shape a single soulmeld.
Prerequisite: Con 13.
Benefit: When this feat is selected, choose a soulmeld from any class’s soulmeld list. You can shape that soulmeld using the normal meldshaping rules (see page 49). Once chosen, the soulmeld granted by this feat can never be changed. Your meldshaper level for this soulmeld is equal to one-half your character level.
If you have essentia, you can invest essentia in the soulmeld as normal. See Table 2–1: Essentia Capacity on page 19 to determine the soulmeld’s essentia capacity.
If you have the ability to bind a soulmeld to a chakra, you can bind this soulmeld to any chakra available to you (as long as the soulmeld can be bound to that chakra).
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, choose a new soulmeld.


OPEN LESSER CHAKRA
You open up one of your body’s centers of power, allowing you to bind a soulmeld or a magic item to that chakra.
Prerequisites: Con 15, character level 12th.
Benefit: When this feat is selected, choose one of the following chakras: arms, brow, or shoulders. You can now bind a soulmeld or a magic item to that chakra.
In addition, you gain a minor benefit from this newfound chakra, depending on the chakra chosen:
Arms: +2 insight bonus on grapple checks.
Brow: +1 insight bonus on Search and Spot checks.
Shoulders: +1 insight bonus on Reflex saves.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new lesser chakra.

It says you can. Why would you then not be able to?

ottdmk
2019-01-17, 11:07 AM
There is a distinction between the number of Binds you can make (Bind Slots) and where you can Bind a Soulmeld (Bind Location.) Many people have interpreted the Open [Least|Lesser|Greater] Chakra feats as granting a Bind Slot as well as opening up a new Bind Location. The usual reasoning is "Well, if it doesn't give a Bind Slot, what use is it?"

The answer to that is in the Prestige Classes from Magic of Incarnum. Sapphire Hierarch is the main one, but Soulcaster and Soul Manifester also suffer from reduced Bind Locations. The Feats can fix that. (If you go into Sapphire Hierarch with the minimal Incarnate level of 2, you have one Bind Location: The Crown.)

In another words, as the feat doesn't specifically grant a new Bind Slot, I don't believe it does. I believe that CustServ had stated something similar back in the day, but as always it's up to the individual to decide how much weight to apply to a CustServ declaration.

Powerdork
2019-01-17, 05:52 PM
There is a distinction between the number of Binds you can make (Bind Slots) and where you can Bind a Soulmeld (Bind Location.) Many people have interpreted the Open [Least|Lesser|Greater] Chakra feats as granting a Bind Slot as well as opening up a new Bind Location. The usual reasoning is "Well, if it doesn't give a Bind Slot, what use is it?"

The answer to that is in the Prestige Classes from Magic of Incarnum. Sapphire Hierarch is the main one, but Soulcaster and Soul Manifester also suffer from reduced Bind Locations. The Feats can fix that. (If you go into Sapphire Hierarch with the minimal Incarnate level of 2, you have one Bind Location: The Crown.)

In another words, as the feat doesn't specifically grant a new Bind Slot, I don't believe it does. I believe that CustServ had stated something similar back in the day, but as always it's up to the individual to decide how much weight to apply to a CustServ declaration.

But max number of binds is a problem granted by incarnate, totemist and soulborn class features, not part of the general rules that start on page 49?

Menzath
2019-01-17, 10:50 PM
So, a healing hymn bard with augment healing, intiate of Tamara, and magic of the land feats can cure for (spell)+(spell lvl*5)+perform ranks.

Healing lorecall spell would be a net gain of 3 if you keep the skill maxed.

If we were an illumian(races of destinty) with the feats improved sigil(krau) and Earth spell while casting a verbal component spell on stone/Earth we get a free +2 to spell level and +1 caster level.

And it's a net gain over healing lorecall (if we are a bard) with sublime chords song of arcane power can be a CL increase of 4. If we have other caster level increasers this would be a total overall gain.

So that's something like
(Spell+5/?cl)+((spell lvl+2)*5)+perform ranks.
So at level 20 if we also have reseves of strength, a cure light would be something like 1d8+64. That's not including and other caster level cheese we throw on or heighting the spell more. Although I wouldn't heighten a cure light more than free, just cast a higher tier heal.

Dunsparce
2019-01-18, 11:14 AM
One of the things I've used in the past for a healing-focused build was a combination of Augment Healing and Mastery of Night and Day. I mostly bring up these two because neither require even a single level of cleric, so you can try to focus on healing using a different class. Once for fun I made a Healer(Miniatures Handbook) with 20 Charisma(18+Lesser Aasimar), Dynamic Priest, and both of those feats At level 6 he could heal 6 HP with Cure Minor Wounds, 20 HP with Cure Light Wounds, 31 HP with Cure Moderate Wounds, and 41 HP with Cure Serious Wounds.

Big problem is that Healer doesn't qualify for many healing related feats due to many of them requiring turn/rebuke undead or domains to be taken. So a level dip in cleric might be needed

ottdmk
2019-01-18, 11:15 AM
But max number of binds is a problem granted by incarnate, totemist and soulborn class features, not part of the general rules that start on page 49? I think you're looking at it backwards: Maximum number of Binds is not a problem, being able to Bind is a class feature that only the three main Meldshaping classes grant.

Crichton
2019-01-18, 11:30 AM
being able to Bind is a class feature that only the three main Meldshaping classes grant.

That's not true at all. All of the Open X Chakra spells and the psionic power explicitly state that they grant that ability, even if the caster doesn't have it from a class feature:




A creature benefiting from this spell can bind a soulmeld or magic item to his opened chakra just as if he had gained the ability to form a chakra bind from a feat or class feature.

ottdmk
2019-01-18, 01:21 PM
That's not true at all. All of the Open X Chakra spells and the psionic power explicitly state that they grant that ability, even if the caster doesn't have it from a class feature:I'll concede the point with regards to the spell and the power. I don't concede that the Feats grant the ability to bind a Chakra, just where the bind can be applied.

Crichton
2019-01-18, 06:05 PM
I'll concede the point with regards to the spell and the power. I don't concede that the Feats grant the ability to bind a Chakra, just where the bind can be applied.

I dunno, I think I'll have to side with Metool on this one. Looks pretty clear from the language of the Open X Chakra feats that it grants that ability. To quote what he quoted:



OPEN LESSER CHAKRA
You open up one of your body’s centers of power, allowing you to bind a soulmeld or a magic item to that chakra.
Prerequisites: Con 15, character level 12th.
Benefit: When this feat is selected, choose one of the following chakras: arms, brow, or shoulders. You can now bind a soulmeld or a magic item to that chakra.
In addition, you gain a minor benefit from this newfound chakra, depending on the chakra chosen:
Arms: +2 insight bonus on grapple checks.
Brow: +1 insight bonus on Search and Spot checks.
Shoulders: +1 insight bonus on Reflex saves.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new lesser chakra.



Twice, once in the fluff, and once in the crunch of each of the feats, it clearly states that by taking that feat you have the ability to bind to the chosen chakra

Powerdork
2019-01-18, 08:33 PM
You all are forgetting that Shape Soulmeld also explicitly notes it, and refers you to the general meldshaping rules rather than having you shape and bind as, say, a soulborn.

Ruethgar
2019-01-19, 01:53 PM
So that's something like
(Spell+5/?cl)+((spell lvl+2)*5)+perform ranks.
So at level 20 if we also have reseves of strength, a cure light would be something like 1d8+64. That's not including and other caster level cheese we throw on or heighting the spell more. Although I wouldn't heighten a cure light more than free, just cast a higher tier heal.

Don't forget Sanctum Spell and Acorn of Far Travel on your Sanctum for another +1 spell level, +2d4 from side effect healing, and +3 from bloodline, for about 1d8+2d4+72 average 81.5.

Menzath
2019-01-19, 11:01 PM
Don't forget Sanctum Spell and Acorn of Far Travel on your Sanctum for another +1 spell level, +2d4 from side effect healing, and +3 from bloodline, for about 1d8+2d4+72 average 81.5.

Yeah, but I always try make it so that everything required is done by one charcter. And in this case that would require our bard to multiclass, or use shenanigans for a druid to get prestige bard.
The multiclassing would be a CL loss of 3, and the shenanigans eat more feats we don't have.

Edit: I suppose we could use 1 feat to enter wyrm wizard and take the 1 CL loss.

Edit2: thinking on it once again, with healing lorecall we can ignore CL, so why don't we multiclass? Also let's do a quick feat count and see what we have.
Race: illumian
Improved sigil(krau)
Earth spell
Sanctum spell
augment healing
Magic of the land
(Got rid of intiate of Tamara cause of the required cleric lvl and dragonblood subtype)
That leaves us 2 feats open.

That let's us take southern magician, and anarchic bloodline.
With a flaw we can later also take arcane preparation.
We now can qualify to be a healer/prestige bard/geomancer/sublime chord/ mystic theurge/wyrm wizard

The sublime chord is in there for lvl4+ bard spells, like inner beauty and nixie's grace.
We lose two caster levels from bard and wyrm wizard. But we get healing hymn, and a total of 12cha, as well as cha bonus to all healing.

Edit3: hmm. Forgot we also need reserves of strength. I think we get more from that feat than we do from being able to cast acorn of far travel, so goodbye wyrm wizard and arcane preparation.

ShurikVch
2019-01-20, 09:27 AM
How about to restore the 3.0 version of Heal?

Ruethgar
2019-01-20, 07:33 PM
You know, you can just ritually add the Evil subtype and get tainted for 6 more free feats. Or Faustian Pact for 2 more. Or shuffle/retrain the free feats you get from classes. Major fey bloodline/healer/prestige bard/geomancer/sublime chord/ mystic theurge/wyrm wizard is 7 free feats.