5e 10th level spells

[Skyflare19]

I have a campaign where there are 2 antagonist spellcasters with nearly endless resources. They have formed a cult in order to use the power if other caster's to amplify their own in order to cast epic spells. Due to the resources required, these spells will be out of reach for the party, even at the endgame.

My question here is: what would some homebrew spells for 10th, and maybe even 11th level be like? The existing list that I could find was fairly short and non descriptive on some.

[Skyblaze]

This is pulling a spinal tap question...why do they have to be 10th or 11th? Why not make a powerful 9th level spell that those folks with the resources have made?

[Skyflare19]

This is pulling a spinal tap question...why do they have to be 10th or 11th? Why not make a powerful 9th level spell that those folks with the resources have made?

The reason that I want them to technically be 10th level is story related. As I said in the initial post, they built a cult in order to have enough people to cast the spells. I had recently seen a video that had mentioned groups using Wish in order to cast epic spells. In addition both of my players are full casters and would probably try to get these spells for themselves, so this is also in place as a buffer to prevent either of them from having spells that would be game breaking.

I hope that I explained it well enough. Just let me know if you have anymore questions, or if my explanation still left you wanting for more reason.

[Sigreid]

Well, what are the NPC's goals? Need that to give specific ideas.

And I would probably make them rituals that require several casters, perhaps of different types to combine arcane and divine energies and truly horrific acts that make your players nope out.

[Skyblaze]

So generally, you're looking to make a super powerful ritual spell (as they need multiple people to cast it). Is the spell going to be control, damage, environmental, or a combination of all three? What is this cult wanting out of this spell?

[Unoriginal]

I have a campaign where there are 2 antagonist spellcasters with nearly endless resources. They have formed a cult in order to use the power if other caster's to amplify their own in order to cast epic spells. Due to the resources required, these spells will be out of reach for the party, even at the endgame.

My question here is: what would some homebrew spells for 10th, and maybe even 11th level be like? The existing list that I could find was fairly short and non descriptive on some.

It's pretty clear there cannot be spells of an higher level than the 9th. Unlike in 3.X, where the "Epic Level" concept is rooted in the world, even millennia-old wizards who roam the planes and the worlds searching for secrets and powers, even those with their own cults and dedicated apprentices, like Acererak, don't go beyond the level 20 of spellcasting.

Of course, it is not to say that there isn't magic that goes beyond the power of spells, but the spell themselves stop at 9th level. Good examples of this would be

Ras Nsi cursing everything that dies in a coutry-wide perimeter to have their corpses raise as Undead

or the various magic it took to build the Tomb of Annihilation itself.

So while it is possible to get more powerful effects, often things that could only potentially be replicated by a Wish spell but without its risk of backlash, but it would a generally take a complexe ritual. Various rituals described in the books have their effect range from "Bless, but better" to "reach godhood".

Otherwise, in term of personal used powers, they could discover things similar to Epic Boons, which grant one a special ability of some kind. For example, being able to summon demons with a thought.

[Skyflare19]

Well, what are the NPC's goals? Need that to give specific ideas.

And I would probably make them rituals that require several casters, perhaps of different types to combine arcane and divine energies and truly horrific acts that make your players nope out.

The NPCs are manipulating a destructive essence called the Corruption. It breaks things down and changes them. If it is put into a living creature, it replaces their blood and at the moment of their death, which the Corruption does not bring directly, a doppelganger of sorts is created, but is made entirely of Corruption.

Also. The spells are cast in rituals, which do not always have everyone surviving the ordeal.

[Rafaelfras]

I have a campaign where there are 2 antagonist spellcasters with nearly endless resources. They have formed a cult in order to use the power if other caster's to amplify their own in order to cast epic spells. Due to the resources required, these spells will be out of reach for the party, even at the endgame.

My question here is: what would some homebrew spells for 10th, and maybe even 11th level be like? The existing list that I could find was fairly short and non descriptive on some.

You have Epic level handbook from 3rd edition, there you can compare epic spells and 9 level spells from 3rd ed era and try to apply the same logic to 5th ed.
Another book i recomend is Netheril Empire of magic ( from 2nd edition) there you have rules from the time magic was in its peak in the empire of Netheril and true 10th, 11th level spells, and even the only 12th level spell ever created, Karsus Avatar.
I think both of theses books will provide ideas to do it in 5th ed.
So i think arcane age will be better for you because it has 10th level and higher instead of a broad category of epic spells from the epic handbook

Edit: Correction on the book title

[Skyflare19]

So generally, you're looking to make a super powerful ritual spell (as they need multiple people to cast it). Is the spell going to be control, damage, environmental, or a combination of all three? What is this cult wanting out of this spell?

I am honestly not sure if I want them using any in combat, as they take too long to cast. But maybe the final fight could start with one. For the most part they are used to spread their power or protect them from threats.

[Sigreid]

An old spell Spirit Wreck comes to mind. You summon a demon or devil lord level entity, imprison it in a magic circle and torture it until it submits to your demands. Has the added bonus of that entity hating you forever.

There's also the rain of colorless fire. Summons a massive storm covering miles that rains fire that burns even inflammable materials. Most casters and their civilizations don't survive the casting of the spell.

[Skyflare19]

So while it is possible to get more powerful effects, often things that could only potentially be replicated by a Wish spell but without its risk of backlash, but it would a generally take a complexe ritual. Various rituals described in the books have their effect range from "Bless, but better" to "reach godhood".

The spells are being cast by a group of powerful casters through Wish, so in essence it is a 9th level spells, I guess. The reason that I am using 10th to refer to it though is that is more on the scale of the power level I am looking for.

[Skyflare19]

An old spell Spirit Wreck comes to mind. You summon a demon or devil lord level entity, imprison it in a magic circle and torture it until it submits to your demands. Has the added bonus of that entity hating you forever.

There's also the rain of colorless fire. Summons a massive storm covering miles that rains fire that burns even inflammable materials. Most casters and their civilizations don't survive the casting of the spell.

I really like the sound of both of those, the second one especially. Where did you find them?

[Skyflare19]

You have Epic level handbook from 3rd edition, there you can compare epic spells and 9 level spells from 3rd ed era and try to apply the same logic to 5th ed.
Another book i recomend is Arcane Age ( from 2nd edition) there you have rules from the time magic was in its peak in the empire of Netheril and true 10th, 11th, 12th level spells, and even the only 13th level spell ever created, Karsus Avatar.
I think both of theses books will provide ideas to do it in 5th ed.
So i think arcane age will be better for you because it has 10th level and higher instead of a broad category of epic spells from the epic handbook

Thank you. I'll have to check those books as soon as I can.

[Sigreid]

I really like the sound of both of those, the second one especially. Where did you find them?

They were 1st edition. The second spell being responsible for the creation of an area called the sea of shifting sands.

[Skyflare19]

They were 1st edition. The second spell being responsible for the creation of an area called the sea of shifting sands.

Thanks for the help.

[GreyBlack]

Inasmuch? No.

However, if these are solely opponents for your characters to fight, why not turn these spells into spell like abilities beyond the pale of 9th level spells?

[Hecuba]

I have a campaign where there are 2 antagonist spellcasters with nearly endless resources. They have formed a cult in order to use the power if other caster's to amplify their own in order to cast epic spells. Due to the resources required, these spells will be out of reach for the party, even at the endgame.

My question here is: what would some homebrew spells for 10th, and maybe even 11th level be like? The existing list that I could find was fairly short and non descriptive on some.

Seeing aside the question of what the spell's effect will look like for a moment, it's also worth considering what the spell's casting will look like. Answering that can help inform why, in particular, it's out of player reach.

Will it require blood sacrifices? Willing self sacrifice? Divine intervention? The blood of a god? The taiting a large area of land? The loss of self / human(oid)manity of the caster(s)?

A firm answer on why this is out of your parties reach will help solidify the place of this higher magic in the setting, and thus inform how NPCs should react to it. And that's important, because - if the setting won't end with the quest, the question of why other organizations can't do this can become as important as why the characters can't do it.

For canonical examples, both FR and Krynn have a divinely instituted ban on spell's above 9th level - and thus require specific Divine sponsorship to get party the ban.

For Athas, in contrast, weilding magic on that scale is inherently transformative - the process of becoming able to do so is the process of becoming a Dragon or Avangion (and thus, probably, turning your character into an NPC).

[furby076]

if the players will never have access to it then don't worry about stating up the spell. Just let the players know, if they find out, about some doomsday rituals that will do horrible things if cast. When they get to the final battle, they have to do things to disrupt it (cast multiple disintigrate, use sphere of annihilation, trigger some artifact, kill X critters to spill enough life force and channel it against the bbeg). get creative, and let the players "come up with the solution" through game chatter. Don't worry about stats

[CTurbo]

Are you looking for some examples of what such a spell would look like? Here are a few ideas.

1. I'd like to see some kind of super powerful regeneration spell that would be on par with Wolverine, Deadpool, and Hulk. Not sure how I would stat it. Maybe Con + character level hp regained per round? Duration of an hour? Maybe it even needs to be better than that? I just really like the idea of super powered regen.

2. Straight up damage immunity for the duration. This one is much more boring than regenerating but extremely effective nonetheless. One hour of total damage immunity sounds good.

3. Some kind of permanent conjuration spell. Maybe even a super powered Find Familiar. Instead of summoning a tiny familiar friend, maybe you summon something like a Deva, or Hag, or Golem, or Barbed/Chained devil.

4. Some kind of improved Foresight. Not sure how it could work out in gameplay, but I just like the idea of knowing the future before it happens.

5. Some kind of improved Time Stop. Maybe this one could involve you allies and not have the distance limit. Definitely an epic power to have.

6. A limited time travel spell. Imagine you just had a disastrous encounter where most of your party dies, and/or you completely failed to achieve a major goal, and you cast a spell that allows you to go back and try again. Yes this one would be hard on the DM and maybe impossible for the players to know how much hp, inventory, etc... that had, but it would be SO cool. Duration would have to be instantaneous.

7. You obviously need at least one epic blasting spell. I'd make it something that could be focused fired or spread out among several enemies. Not sure about damage output but needs to be more than Meteor Storm obviously.

[Whiskeyjack8044]

At 9th level Wish changes reality. At 10th level you can do what ever you want and I mean that literally. Wanna go full Thanos and wipe out half the world, you can do that. Annoyed with these hero's that have ruined so many of your plans, you can totally make it so they never existed. You can make yourself a god. Hell with an 11th level spell you can make yourself the ONLY God. I don't think you need a spell card, especially if your players aren't going to be able to do it, just say what you want to happen and make it happen. Don't worry about the dice, if they get hit with a 10th level spell they just die.

I imagine that we can't go past 9th level because that's as much as reality can be tampered with, anything past that would destroy reality. But this is your setting, so you're really free to do whatever you want.

[Tvtyrant]

I have a campaign where there are 2 antagonist spellcasters with nearly endless resources. They have formed a cult in order to use the power if other caster's to amplify their own in order to cast epic spells. Due to the resources required, these spells will be out of reach for the party, even at the endgame.

My question here is: what would some homebrew spells for 10th, and maybe even 11th level be like? The existing list that I could find was fairly short and non descriptive on some.

I would look at Darksun and Lost Empires or Netheril for ideas on epic spells. The Darksun ones are actually fairly balanced, taking 90 days or more to prepare for a single casting.

[Azgeroth]

without knowing exactly what your looking for, might i suggest looking into Mythals? those were/are incredibly powerful magical affects such as the one that caused the 'Dragon Rage' allowed the cities of Netheril to fly, and protected Myth dran'or (i think thats how its spelt) from devils and demons..

there are also a few other examples of Mythals being used to either entrap powerful enteties or give protection to a region.

might be just the ticket you are looking for.

[Neknoh]

Some of the historical, hyper-powerful "ancient" spells of DnD (in older books and DnD-connected systems) that were considered 10th level were:

- Proctiv's Move Mountain (allowing you to levitate a mountain off it's base or suspend it in the air for as long as the spell was active, allowing for flying cities and complete restructuring of nations)
- Mavin's Create Volcano (Turn any mountain into a volcano that's spewing ash and sparks and after one week, it will explode in a violent volcanic eruption, pyroclastic flow, magma and all)
- Ioulaum's Longevity (Kills every one around the user and for every living being killed the user obtains one extra year of life)

Here's a video going into depth on this kind of magic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiGBXhpQAUg

[Amdy_vill]

I have a campaign where there are 2 antagonist spellcasters with nearly endless resources. They have formed a cult in order to use the power if other caster's to amplify their own in order to cast epic spells. Due to the resources required, these spells will be out of reach for the party, even at the endgame.

My question here is: what would some homebrew spells for 10th, and maybe even 11th level be like? The existing list that I could find was fairly short and non descriptive on some.

10th and 11th level spells are things like summon the Tarrasque, soul rend and and such. things gods can do but don't. the creation of a soul with out another creatures soul would be here. think about the rules of magic set up in the game and start breaking rules as the levels get higher.

[KorvinStarmast]

I have a campaign where there are 2 antagonist spellcasters with nearly endless resources. They have formed a cult in order to use the power if other caster's to amplify their own in order to cast epic spells. Due to the resources required, these spells will be out of reach for the party, even at the endgame. You don't need 10th or 11th level spells. You need "one of a kind" DM artifacts/disposable things like "the gem of awesome volcano emulation" or things like that. Since it is out of reach of your players there is no need to assign a spell level to it.

I'd suggest reading up on what bounded accuracy is, why 5e designers chose to go with the design principle, and let the "spells above 9th level" go.

[daemonaetea]

I'd simply advice looking at the 7th-9th level spell lists, and either combining spells from there into one monstrous ability, or else removing restrictions that are normally inherent to them. Think debuffs that never go away, or buffs with the same. Or three damaging spells being procked at the same time, or one damaging spell that just hits dozens of square miles. Sometimes you don't have to make all the numbers bigger - just changing one or two simple ones, like range or area of effect - can do.

For instance, consider a 10th level Fireball spell that still only does 8d6 damage, but can hit anything with 500 miles and has a radius of 1 mile. That's not much of a threat for high level adventurers, but it's a city killer. The one who can cast that is a threat that the whole world has to take seriously.

[Provo]

I have a campaign where there are 2 antagonist spellcasters with nearly endless resources. They have formed a cult in order to use the power if other caster's to amplify their own in order to cast epic spells. Due to the resources required, these spells will be out of reach for the party, even at the endgame.

My question here is: what would some homebrew spells for 10th, and maybe even 11th level be like? The existing list that I could find was fairly short and non descriptive on some.

So you are looking for enormous power, world changing kind of stuff. Keep in mind that it can’t just be flashy (like raining fire). It also has to achieve some goal.

A couple ideas:
1: The spell summons an angel for every major kingdom on the planet, and binds the angels to the wizards service. The angels each take over a kingdom through their power and charisma. The people are initially happy because the angels seem like a sign of divine favor.

2: The spell marks every child born with magical power. The children are taken to further increase the wizards’ power.

3. The spell bends fate and fortune, stealing the luck of the rest of the world. The land around the wizards becomes a flourshing utopia, while the rest of the world suffers under plague, drought and famine

4. The spell literally breaks the world into chunks. Why? I don’t know, but there are multiple fictional settings with this premise.

5. The spell summons not one dragon, but a hoard of them. This was an epic spell in 3.5 (I think), and can serve as a defense before the final fight.

[Rafaelfras]

Thank you. I'll have to check those books as soon as I can.

A correction, the book title is " Netheril: empire of magic" Arcane age is the name of that time period and not the title of the book.
The strongest spell it has is Karsus avatar, the only 12th level spell ever made

here is a quick list of the spells in the book https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Epic_magic