Forge Cleric and Wildshape

[Aaedimus]

As we all know, magic items such as armor and rings tend to resize to the wearer. It is within law due to text in the wildshape that specifies that you can choose to either have your equipment meld into your shape or stay on your body, that while you are wearing magic armor it will resize (as long as the DM sees it as realistic) to your new size and shape and you will continue to gain its benefits.

A Forge Cleric can imbue armor with magic. Would it be realistic to rule that this new armor becomes temporarily identical to all +1 magic armor and also resizes until the effect wears off? Although most druids have a taboo against wearing metal armor, the goddess Meilikki allows it.

So, character concept:
a one class dip into Forge Cleric, wearing magically imbued steel plate armor as a dire wolf or a bear.

You're paying for the defense boost with a whole level dip, and it's not permanent. Opinions?

[nickl_2000]

The answer to this is going to be highly, highly DM specific. So the answer to this, like most other question regarding wildshape, is "ask your DM"

My opinion: No, it won't work to allow you wear armor in wildshape form simply because you don't really need to boost the power of a Moon Druid wildshape form anymore.



Also, as a DM I would be asking the question of why a Druid, who doesn't like metal armor in general, is worshiping a god of forging metal.

[Aaedimus]

As I stated, Meilikki allows her druids to wear and use metal armor and weapons. I could also take magic initiate with mage armor, and hold onto divine shield for a pretty similar defensive boost (although this is objectively better)

I am aware it's DM discression in the end.

If you gave one player magic +1 platemail, and they gave it to their Meilikki worshiping druid friend wouldn't that be the same? I'm not sure as a DM I could feel good about allowing it to change size for 1 player and not the other

[Man_Over_Game]

The answer to this is going to be highly, highly DM specific. So the answer to this, like most other question regarding wildshape, is "ask your DM"

My opinion: No, it won't work to allow you wear armor in wildshape form simply because you don't really need to boost the power of a Moon Druid wildshape form anymore.



Also, as a DM I would be asking the question of why a Druid, who doesn't like metal armor in general, is worshiping a god of forging metal.

I was actually about to post effectively the same thing as nickl_2000.

I will say that reflavoring Druids is definitely possible, and metal is simply an alternate version of earthly elements, so flavor-wise, I'd let that part slide.

But as for allowing armor on a Wild Shape form, there's a few balance concerns there. I'd give you one of two options.


Use my homebrew change to Wild Shape (Use 1/2 of the HP on the animal statblock, you get resistance to all damage when Wild shape breaks due to damage until the start of your next turn, including damage exceeding the Wild Shape HP). In which case, Yes, you get the armor.
Use Wild Shape as it normally is. In which case, No, you don't get the armor.


Moon Druids are already incredibly powerful, with 34 HP, able to be used for an hour, twice per short rest, at level 2. Having a low AC is part of that inherent flaw of the option, and Forge Cleric provides more than just armor (Prepared Cleric spells, buff spells, combat proficiencies, etc).

I have no problem with the Forge Cleric enchanting armor to shape around an ally, but I do have a problem with magical gear adhering to a Wild Shape. Even if it is magical, I don't consider that enough to make it transform between being usable between bipeds and quadrupeds. While this fits in my narrative, it's also an active balance choice.

A DM can decide whatever he wants, but I feel like neglecting balance is shirking an important responsibility the players rely on the DM to understand. The players just want to play, and wanting something like that isn't a bad thing. But at the same time, the players trust the DM to make the sane decisions that work with everyone, even if that's not what a single player wants to hear.

[nickl_2000]

As I stated, Meilikki allows her druids to wear and use metal armor and weapons. I could also take magic initiate with mage armor, and hold onto divine shield for a pretty similar defensive boost (although this is objectively better)


Sorry, missed that piece.




If you gave one player magic +1 platemail, and they gave it to their Meilikki worshiping druid friend wouldn't that be the same? I'm not sure as a DM I could feel good about allowing it to change size for 1 player and not the other

You would allow it to change size. It changes between the Dwarven Forgecleric and the Human Fighter/Druid. That is changing size. There is a difference between armor fitting two humanoids and armor fitting a humanoid and a beast. Would you allow someone to create +1 magical fullplate for a dwarf and then put it on a horse? That is a more accurate comparison for wearing armor while wildshaped in my mind.

If you were to invest concentration on Shield of Faith and get Mage Armor from a feat, I would (and should) allow it. You are sacrificing a lot to be able to do that and it has become a focus of a character. Plus you can lose concentration on Shield of Faith while in a wildshape form pretty easily. I just think that magical fullplate is flat out to much on a Moon Druid. Again, just my opinion though.

[Aaedimus]

So, with shape being the issue, I assume than that breastplate and even chain would be a realistic request, but not splint or platemail...

I can see any torso armor fitting but anything requiring leg gear being the issue.

I just had another thought, the beast form does change its strength stats, so a str of 13 for heavy armor could still be required even if the size was allowed to change...

[nickl_2000]

So, with shape being the issue, I assume than that breastplate and even chain would be a realistic request, but not splint or platemail...

I can see any torso armor fitting but anything requiring leg gear being the issue.

I just had another thought, the beast form does change its strength stats, so a str of 13 could still be required even if the size was allowed to change...

Alright, let me throw back two questions to you.

1) Are you DMing or playing?
2) Is it a home game or an AL game?

[Wildarm]

How about the character just carry around a set of barding for the beast form?

Cost is 4x regular armor - Forge cleric should be able to enchant that barding to make it +1

Main cost is is time for people to strap the armor on your wild shape form or if your DM is lenient, allow it to automagically go from your backpack onto your wildshaped form. It's damned heavy though(2x regular armor) so you better have a strong druid.

[Aaedimus]

Alright, let me throw back two question to you.

1) Are you DMing or playing?
2) Is it a home game or an AL game?

I do DM, but this is more of a theoretical concept I was just thinking of. Might use it as a NPC, or try to play it. As a DM I like my players to be creative, so sometimes I put in examples of ways that I'd allow the rules to be bent to give them inspiration and the green light to be creative.

[nickl_2000]

I do DM, but this is more of a theoretical concept I was just thinking of. Might use it as a NPC, or try to play it. As a DM I like my players to be creative, so sometimes I put in examples of ways that I'd allow the rules to be bent to give them inspiration and the green light to be creative.

I personally don't think it would work with any armor even breastplate of chain, but that is my opinion. If you as a DM want it to work then let it work, it's a simple as that.

And NPCs? Well they can do pretty much anything you want them to do, they get to break all the rules from the beginning.

[Vogie]

I'd always lean towards allowance of shenanigans, with caveats and limitations to make such shenanigans easy-to-implement. For Example:

If your deity's symbol is an armored bear, say, then you could allow their followers to keep their armor when wild shaped, provided they're wildshaped into the form of a bear.
If there are multiple forms, that's fine, provided there are a limited number of forms (Panther/Stag/Eagle, for example).

[Aaedimus]

Yeah, an armored bear might be ok, but even I would say no to a full plate giant eagle or spider.

[Aaedimus]

Another question considering Forge Cleric magic armor.

Imagine I've got 2 players on the team who can wear heavy armor. One is a Goliath Paladin, the other is a gnome fighter. I make the goliaths armor +1 and magic. It'll shrink to fit the gnome.
When the spell is over would you rule it returns to its original size, or that it is stuck in the smaller size

[Aaedimus]

I'm leaning towards returning to the original size

[sophontteks]

Armor doesn't turn into barding when you wildshape. See the last line of wildshaping.

". Your equipment doesn't change to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can't wear must either fall to the ground or merge with it. Equipment that merges with the form has no effect until you leave the form."

Barding is not the same as resizing armor to the wearer. It costs 4x the usual cost to make it. Its effectively a completely different item. This is well beyond magic items resizing to the wearer.