Idea to "fix" Tunnel Fighter

[rahimka]

Relevant change in bold:

"Tunnel Fighter (Unearthed Arcana): As a bonus action, you can enter a defensive stance that lasts until the start of your next turn. While in your defensive stance, you can make may make a number of opportunity equal to your Dexterity bonus (minimum of 1) without using your reaction, and you can use your reaction to make a melee attack against a creature that moves more than 5 feet while within your reach."

With this simple change (based on the Combat Reflexes feat from previous editions and Pathfinder, which granted a similar ability to make additionally AoOs) the Tunnel Fighter style retains much of its utility, but is 1) more balanced by MAD requirements in order to fully optimize and 2) capped even for high Dex builds to reduce the unlimited shenanigans possible in the current form


Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

[Trustypeaches]

With this simple change (based on the Combat Reflexes feat from previous editions and Pathfinder, which granted a similar ability to make additionally AoOs) the Tunnel Fighter style retains much of its utility, but is 1) more balanced by MAD requirements in order to fully optimize and 2) capped even for high Dex builds to reduce the unlimited shenanigans possible in the current formIt's only MAD for strength builds.

For DEX builds this is still broken as fuzz.

[Dungeon-noob]

Short comment: this would also make combat more fiddely and slow it down because you need to keep track of how many uses you still have left each round, which isn't fun. 5e is supposed to be incredibly simple and sleek in design, which isn't the feeling i'm getting from this.

I see what you're trying to do, and appriciate your effort regardless.

[DanyBallon]

Disclaimer: Compared to the UA version, mine might looks like a big nerf, but it prevent abuses and is no more a must have feat Fighting Style.

Tunnel Fighter
As a bonus action, you can enter a defensive stance that last until the beginning of your next turn. While in you defensive stance you can use your reaction to make a melee attack against a creature that move more than five feet while within your reach.

With this change the feat no longer breaks the action economy and allow a defensive character to extend the possibility to make an attack with his reaction beyond the normal rules for Opportunity Attacks.

As written my version is a bit weak for a feat, so maybe add a +1 bonus to an ability score, or to AC (the later may be a bit too good though), or a new feature within the theme that could be use all the time or by anyone.

[Contrast]

I'm not convinced its a sensible fighting style anyway but you will probably want to clarify that each trigger of an opportunity attack only allows you to make one opportunity attack rather than potentially dumping all 5 on one person.

Edit -


Disclaimer: Compared to the UA version, mine might looks like a big nerf, but it prevent abuses and is no more a mist have feat.

Just a reminder the UA one was a fighting style, not a feat.

[Sahe]

How about changing it from a Bonus Action to an Action? That way you can no longer full on attack and then threaten with lots of AoO's.

You could offer it up as a feat (or offer a Pick a Fighting Style feat).

[LudicSavant]

Disclaimer: Compared to the UA version, mine might looks like a big nerf, but it prevent abuses and is no more a mist have feat.

As written my version is a bit weak for a feat, so maybe add a +1 bonus to an ability score

It was never a feat in the first place. It was a fighting style available to Fighters, Rangers, and Paladins.

[DanyBallon]

Just a reminder the UA one was a fighting style, not a feat.

That's what happen when you reply within 5 minutes from waking up :smalltongue:
Now if it's a fighting style, then I believe my changes looks fine without adding anything.

If we look at the other fighting styles:

Archery: +2 to hit with ranged weapons --> I think we can all agree that this one is on top of the power curve and shouldn't be used as a baseline
Defense: +1 AC when wearing armor --> As good as Archery
Dueling: +2 dmg, must wield a weapon in 1 hand, and no other weapon (can use a shield) --> It add damage to a less powerful style of play
GWF: Reroll 1 or 2 on damage die with melee weapon wielded two-handed --> add more reliable damage output for a style of play that is well known for doing large damage amount (it's always sad to deal only 2-3 damage when you are suppose to be the big damage dealer of the party)
Protection: As a reaction, impose disadvantage to a creature attacking a target other than you within 5 feet of you. Must wield a shield --> add a new option for shield user
TWF: Add ability mod to off-hand attack --> Add damage to a less powerful style of play.
Mariner (UA): When not wearing heavy armor, +1 AC AND swimming and climbing spead = normal speed --> the movement part add versatility, and the bonus to AC is too much on top of it

So far we have fighting style that gives numerical values, and/or add new options or reliability.
Since most numerical value are already covered, I think new FS should focus more on adding options instead.

What do you folks think?

[LudicSavant]

What do you folks think?

The action economy for your revised version of the Fighting Style is just too disadvantageous for what you get. You have to use your bonus action and reaction for the ability to make an opportunity attack under a niche circumstance (moving more that 5 feet within your reach), and if the enemy doesn't meet that circumstance you still are down a bonus action.

Who's going to take this? Certainly not a polearm master; they can already get a bonus attack with their bonus action and then another one with their reaction (under a less niche circumstance). And for someone with a 5 foot range, enemies don't need to move more than 5 feet within your reach to get within striking distance of you. And if they're trying to run past you, you would be able to get a normal OA for just the price of a reaction, instead of the price of a reaction+bonus action+fighting style.

[DanyBallon]

The action economy for your revised version of the Fighting Style is just too disadvantageous for what you get. You have to use your bonus action and reaction for the ability to make an opportunity attack under a niche circumstance (moving more that 5 feet within your reach), and if the enemy doesn't meet that circumstance you still are down a bonus action.

Who's going to take this? Certainly not a polearm master; they can already get a bonus attack with their bonus action and then another one with their reaction (under a less niche circumstance). And for someone with a 5 foot range, enemies don't need to move more than 5 feet within your reach to get within striking distance of you. And if they're trying to run past you, you would be able to get a normal OA for just the price of a reaction, instead of the price of a reaction+bonus action+fighting style.

PAM user will benefit from being able to make an attack with full dmg dice vs a target that move within reach to close combat, which is better than using their bonus attack for 1d4 dmg and maybe not having a reaction at all because the target won't move out of range. Yet I understand your point about costing a bonus action being a bit too much and being very situational.
As far as non reach fighter, the fighting style is still useful against target that wants to reach an ally standing close to you that they can reach without leaving your reach. Again it's a very niche circumstance.

What if, we just drop the bonus action part and say that the character with Tunnel Fighter can always take an melee attack of opportunity vs any target that move more than 5 ft within their reach, or when it leave their reach?

[PeteNutButter]

You may want to look at the cavalier. I believe it gets a similar feature at level 18th level.

Which is about in line with how powerful it really is to break the action economy. It’s a subclass capstone. That fighting style should never have been a thing. IMO the published cavalier proves my point. They can never properly publish that FS after it’s basically capstone for an existing class.