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daemonaetea
2019-01-17, 09:02 AM
We're starting a new game soon, beginning at level 2. After some consideration of where I wanted to take the character, I realized that for the first time I actually had a fairly strong motivation to actually attempt a build using a large number of different classes.

The initial build I have is Rogue 1/ Cleric of Knowledge 1. The character will be starting with Expertise in all knowledge skills, and I intend to play him as something of a constant researcher. He wants to understand everything, discover new things, and constantly redefine how he views the world. Originally I was going to mostly level Rogue after this, but upon consideration of options, and thinking of what personality I'm aiming for, I realized this character might actually take half a dozen different classes.

Now, as soon as I began considering this option, I tried to think of viability options. I'm not interested in playing a useless character, a burden the rest of the party has to carry around. So I've been trying to figure out how many classes I can take and get some actual use out of, while still being a contributing character in combat. I wanted to run my thoughts by all of you to see 1) Does what I have seem viable? and 2) Do you see any ways to improve it? or maybe 3) Should I just not?

Starting stats were rolled as 11, 17, 13, 13, 13, 14 (this also contributed to my consideration of a large multiclass). Human variant, with final stats of:
STR 11, DEX 18, CON 13, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 13

Taking Crossbow Expert and picking up a hand crossbow, with the idea the bonus attack from that will substitute for a lot of lost "baseline" combat proficiency.

Just going to list off the assumed attack rolls at each level, to give an idea of combat viability.

Start as Rogue 1/Cleric of Knowledge 1, giving a very wide array of proficiency and a smattering of casting ability. Guidance helps to make up for lower stats in secondary skills for all those skill checks.
+6 2d6+4 (sneak attack)
+6 1d6+4

Level 3 is in Warlock. This gives an additional spell slot per short rest, but most importantly Hex. The patron benefit is also nice, and I'm currently leaning towards Great Old One.
+6 3d6+4 (sneak attack + hex)
+6 2d6+4 (hex)

Level 4 is in Fighter. The fighting style gives a nice boost to attack rolls, with the hope that higher accuracy and consistency helps damage output in the long run.
+8 3d6+4
+8 2d6+4

And... admittedly, that's where I cap out on anything that adds really combat viability. For level 5, I'm considering Wizard (more spells + spell slot restoration) or Sorcerer (lots of cantrips for more utility + sorcerous origin for a variety of small buffs).

The game is unlikely to go much beyond 8th level. So again, my basic question - does this seem viable and competitive enough to not detract from the group? Alternatively, is it too min maxed early? For reference, the rest of the group is likely to make baseline straight classed characters. So far I know we'll have a bard and a warlock. It'd be relatively simple to control the power gain on this just by when I choose to take each additional class. Take a lesser option a levels 3 and 5, for instance, to slow combat gain vs the faster ascent here. Alternatively, if you have a good idea for a class to take in the midst of this to boost things up, that works too. My plan would be to do this until level 5 or 6, and then begin to actually take level 2 for some of those classes. So not trying for a true "all classes" build, just an extreme multiclass.

PeteNutButter
2019-01-17, 09:28 AM
Multiclass characters feel the pain at key points.

What I mean is a few there are key things a character misses out by multiclassing that’ll make them feel significantly weaker than their allies. The first is point ASIs, and the second is tier jumps.

For ASIs if you never get 4 levels in a class, your stats never improve. This isn’t so bad because your are starting with both a feat and an 18.

For tier jumps you’re going to get hit pretty hard. Everyone else will suddenly be making 2 attacks, casting 3rd level spells, or something similar. Crossbow expert does a fair job mitigating this pain giving you two attacks but the bonus action cost and reduced damage die make it weaker.

Another common way to mitigate this is with BB/GFB. The best way mechanically speaking is with eldritch blast and the agonizing blast invocation. Since you’re already planning a warlock level you might want to consider that route instead, providing you can swap stats around for cha over dex. Though it does require 2 lock levels.

I’m my experience, combining that many classes has limited usefulness beyond low levels. A few classes get good features at level 1, but many need to get to level 3 to really get a good boost. A 20th level character with classes like 5/4/4/3/3/1 can be totally viable but you wouldn’t want to start 1/1/1/1/1/1.

Just looking at your current build, I’d say dipping warlock for hex isn’t going to work as well as planned since hex heavily competes with your bonus action. In practice you have to move hex probably 50-75% of time, more in larger parties.

daemonaetea
2019-01-17, 10:24 AM
Sometimes I find it hard to convey what I'm trying to say, so I want to note here at the top explicitly my goal for the words I'm going to say next, and what I don't want to convey. I don't want to dismiss what you said. You gave really good advice, and some of it was very helpful. For instance, I already knew my Bonus action economy was going to be very hard to manage, but I had completely failed to consider having to move the Hex was a Bonus action as well. That makes this even trickier. But what I do want to say is that I may have failed to make known what level of optimization I'm aiming for here.

I know this is a dumb build, that's generally not very useful or viable. I'm hoping to optimize it enough so that this dumb build is as generally useful as a middle of the road, not particularly optimized for combat character of the party. Generally I just saw an opportunity to do something kinda goofy but fun and see if, in this mostly low level game, I could make it work well enough to not be a drain on the party.

I also want to note two bits of advice you gave that were also excellent and I'm planning to ignore, and why. You recommend Eldritch Blast as a great option that's class agnostic, and it really would be perfect for this, but I'm trying to avoid Charisma as a high stat for this character for this particular game. The Bard and Warlock that are already going to be in the game are two players that almost never play Charisma people, while I almost always am that guy. So I'm specifically trying to stay away from Charisma and social skills to give these two a chance to shine in that spotlight.

GWM, on the other hand, just doesn't synergize that well with Rogue, and one of my goals here was to try to make someone that still plays more or less like a Rogue, rather than anything else. So I wanted to make sure to use Sneak Attack, and that doesn't work with GWM. (Sharpshooter would arguably be a strong option to consider, though even with Archery style I'd still be looking at +4 to hit with that, and I'd just rather do consistent damage than swing for the bleachers. Although I could just go as unoptimized as possible and just alternate rounds of True Strike and sharpshooting. And Bless from Cleric as a general buff to the party, just making me an alternating round of big hits while still being useful...)

So, back to the level I'm aiming for. In my original plans, I was going Rogue1/Cleric1/Rogue6 for my build, with Mastermind as my archetype. So kind of a buffer instead of a damage dealer. My attacks were more of an also ran than the focus. So at 8th level, I'd have one attack at +8 5d6+5 per round, assuming I could sneak attack. So when I'm comparing my combat utility to something, that's the general level of damage I'm looking to equal, or at least approach. (You could argue that, since I won't be doing the combat buffing I would be doing as Mastermind I should aim a little higher, but I'm hoping my general utility out of combat at least slightly makes up for that.)

So I'm not looking to be at the top of the party, as long as I can (mostly) consistently hit numbers like that I'll be satisfied. I'll also most likely dip back into Rogue for levels 7 and 8, effectively getting the Rogue archetype as a capstone for the game if I go with this plan.

Keravath
2019-01-17, 10:43 AM
There are a number of ways that you can create a viable and useful character with a number of multiclasses. However, I would suggest considering using a cantrip as the basis for your offensive damage since it scales with total character level.

As an example, two levels of warlock gives you eldritch blast and hex ... combine with devils sight and agonizing blast for invocations to give you the ability to see in the dark and good at will damage throughout the character's carreer.

If you want to focus on skills, take lore bard ... at level 3 you will pick up an additional 3 skills as well as more expertise. They are also a full casting class.

For damage, you are unlikely to beat 2d10+2d6+ 2xcha for eldritch blast from levels 5-10 unless you can work in extra attack into the build and that will start very late due to the multiclassing.

There are a lot of lower level spells that will also support the party like bless which is always useful.

So .. I might suggest something like ... rogue 2/knowledge cleric 1/hexblade warlock 3/ lore bard X if you want an effective support spell caster with skill mastery and decent direct damage support.

If you want to build for the long term, take resilient con as your first level feat. Boring BUT essential.

Maybe start hexblade warlock 2 .. knowledge cleric 1 .. rogue 2 .. bard X ... put the highest stat in charisma, use charisma for weapons due to hexblade, wear medium armor .. shield use also possible but you may need to take warcaster at some point. If you start with 18 charisma you will also be awesome at the social skills.

PeteNutButter
2019-01-17, 10:51 AM
Sometimes I find it hard to convey what I'm trying to say, so I want to note here at the top explicitly my goal for the words I'm going to say next, and what I don't want to convey. I don't want to dismiss what you said. You gave really good advice, and some of it was very helpful. For instance, I already knew my Bonus action economy was going to be very hard to manage, but I had completely failed to consider having to move the Hex was a Bonus action as well. That makes this even trickier. But what I do want to say is that I may have failed to make known what level of optimization I'm aiming for here.

I know this is a dumb build, that's generally not very useful or viable. I'm hoping to optimize it enough so that this dumb build is as generally useful as a middle of the road, not particularly optimized for combat character of the party. Generally I just saw an opportunity to do something kinda goofy but fun and see if, in this mostly low level game, I could make it work well enough to not be a drain on the party.

I also want to note two bits of advice you gave that were also excellent and I'm planning to ignore, and why. You recommend Eldritch Blast as a great option that's class agnostic, and it really would be perfect for this, but I'm trying to avoid Charisma as a high stat for this character for this particular game. The Bard and Warlock that are already going to be in the game are two players that almost never play Charisma people, while I almost always am that guy. So I'm specifically trying to stay away from Charisma and social skills to give these two a chance to shine in that spotlight.

GWM, on the other hand, just doesn't synergize that well with Rogue, and one of my goals here was to try to make someone that still plays more or less like a Rogue, rather than anything else. So I wanted to make sure to use Sneak Attack, and that doesn't work with GWM. (Sharpshooter would arguably be a strong option to consider, though even with Archery style I'd still be looking at +4 to hit with that, and I'd just rather do consistent damage than swing for the bleachers. Although I could just go as unoptimized as possible and just alternate rounds of True Strike and sharpshooting. And Bless from Cleric as a general buff to the party, just making me an alternating round of big hits while still being useful...)

So, back to the level I'm aiming for. In my original plans, I was going Rogue1/Cleric1/Rogue6 for my build, with Mastermind as my archetype. So kind of a buffer instead of a damage dealer. My attacks were more of an also ran than the focus. So at 8th level, I'd have one attack at +8 5d6+5 per round, assuming I could sneak attack. So when I'm comparing my combat utility to something, that's the general level of damage I'm looking to equal, or at least approach. (You could argue that, since I won't be doing the combat buffing I would be doing as Mastermind I should aim a little higher, but I'm hoping my general utility out of combat at least slightly makes up for that.)

So I'm not looking to be at the top of the party, as long as I can (mostly) consistently hit numbers like that I'll be satisfied. I'll also most likely dip back into Rogue for levels 7 and 8, effectively getting the Rogue archetype as a capstone for the game if I go with this plan.

That makes total sense that you'd want to avoid high cha due to the bard and warlock. Is that the whole party? Because if it is, perhaps consider a more melee "rogue" (unless the bard is valor or the warlock blade).

If going the melee route, booming blade would be a good reason to MC. Rogue 1/Cleric 1/Sorcerer 1 for instance could BB and cast shield with the free hand. Depending on the starting class, you could take warcaster to start and use a shield (getting prof from cleric). Fighter would still be a viable dip for dueling FS. If there are no other melee PCs, I would hands down go this route. All the support in the world isn't worth taking the hits so your squishy teammates don't have to.

To answer your question of will you be viable compared to non-optimized single classes? Yeah, probably. It's hard to really break a character. Generally people who optimize often play better tactically as well, so you'll have that going for you. I tend to build characters that can either tank or buff so that the team feels empowered by my character being more optimized, instead of overshadowed, so it seems like you're on the right track.

daemonaetea
2019-01-17, 11:19 AM
That makes total sense that you'd want to avoid high cha due to the bard and warlock. Is that the whole party? Because if it is, perhaps consider a more melee "rogue" (unless the bard is valor or the warlock blade).

If going the melee route, booming blade would be a good reason to MC. Rogue 1/Cleric 1/Sorcerer 1 for instance could BB and cast shield with the free hand. Depending on the starting class, you could take warcaster to start and use a shield (getting prof from cleric). Fighter would still be a viable dip for dueling FS. If there are no other melee PCs, I would hands down go this route. All the support in the world isn't worth taking the hits so your squishy teammates don't have to.

To answer your question of will you be viable compared to non-optimized single classes? Yeah, probably. It's hard to really break a character. Generally people who optimize often play better tactically as well, so you'll have that going for you. I tend to build characters that can either tank or buff so that the team feels empowered by my character being more optimized, instead of overshadowed, so it seems like you're on the right track.

There will be two other players, but they haven't settled on a class yet. They both generally play martial characters though, so I'm going to assume that's what they'll make for this game as well for now. If either of them decide to do something different I probably will slide into a more martial build instead.

The Sorcerer dip at 3 probably would be the best move for that build, so I'll probably go ahead and start statting up an alternate build line starting with that to have as a backup as well. Heck, might even like that one more in general and go with it anyway. Thank you very much for the input.

Man_Over_Game
2019-01-17, 11:27 AM
One thing I want to mention is that while spellcasting is heavily hindered by multiclassing, due to the fact that you constantly delay getting your high level spells and instead get many low level ones, martial classes actually do quite well with multiclassing, due to the fact that all of them improve a singular focus: Attacking.

Focus on the Martial aspect, and you'll find you'll be able to contribute pretty well.

Battlemaster 5, Rogue 4 (Scout/Thief/Assassin), Monk 4 (Kensei, Drunken Master), Ranger 3 (Hunter/Gloom Stalker), with the rest of your levels into Fighter or Rogue, will be a very solid, mostly optimized multiclass character.

Any other solution is going to end up with wasted caster levels, Charisma requirements in a team that already has a lot of Charisma, or a fiddly situation using Barbarian levels while having minor casting abilities (like from Ranger).

Going my above route will make an excellent versatile combatant, capable in both melee and ranged combat exceptionally well.

Palfatreos
2019-01-17, 11:37 AM
I would limit yourself which classes to pick depending which 2 stats are your main/second focus.

DEX/WIS
Want more spells druid/cleric
Want more martial monk/fighter/rogue
ranger half martial-spellcaster which can ue hunter mark that work as good as hex

STR/CHA
spells bard/sorc
martial paladin/fighter
warlock

Particle_Man
2019-01-17, 08:33 PM
How married are you to that feat? Because this might be one of the few times that non-variant human gets to shine, especially as you won't get ASI's. Round up those odd numbers to get three more even numbers!

Teaguethebean
2019-01-19, 11:56 AM
My statement wont be nearly as large as others but if your going with a person thirsting for knowledge you might want to check out the seeker patron it's all about you are gathering knowledge for your patrom

Naanomi
2019-01-19, 12:12 PM
Variant-Human(Skilled) Rogue(Scout) 3/Bard(Lore) 3/Cleric (Knowledge) 1... be proficient in every skill, Bard or Cleric cantrips for damage, cunning action to keep out of melee... and long term potential for expertise in 8-13 skills; or 10-11 with Reliable Talent as well

daemonaetea
2019-01-19, 11:42 PM
My statement wont be nearly as large as others but if your going with a person thirsting for knowledge you might want to check out the seeker patron it's all about you are gathering knowledge for your patrom
I'm so torn! Seeker is exactly the kind of flavor I want, and somehow I'd never read that UA before. However... I'm disappointed in the class's abilities - not because they're weak, per se, but just because I don't think they do a very good job of matching that flavor. But there's also almost a Travel domain tinge to it as well that doesn't really fit my concept, so I suppose that's natural. So not a bad Patron, but not quite what I was hoping for.

Anyway, I just thought I'd circle back around on this and share the build I decided to go with. Still have to run a rule matter by the DM, but I think he'll be ok with it.

After talking before about a melee build, I started thinking through a few different concepts, and I've landed on Rogue1/Monk1 as my starting classes, with Spear Mastery as my starting feat. I really like the tactical options that feat opens up, and (I'm going to argue) the fact it's a monk weapon and thus I can use Dex with it should let me sneak attack with it. (Yes, I'm aware a RAW or even RAI look at the rules says this is not so, but I don't think it's out of the line question, and I think I'll receive his permission to do so.) (If he really hates it, I'll just switch to Short Sword and pick a different feat, or maybe even just go normal human.) This will give me a strong main attack, and a bonus action attack to stack bonuses on and to act as a second chance for Sneak Attack if the main hit misses.

From there, the planned build (and reasons for each) are:

Cleric (to flesh out character concept with Knowledge domain, and grab a few utility cantrips)
Warlock (more cantrips, Hex, and a short rest spell slot; Picking up True Strike so that when the enemy starts far away, my round will be Action: True Strike, Bonus Action: Ready vs Charge, so when the enemy moves adjacent I'll attack with advantage for 2d10+1d6+4, which should be a fun opener for combat)
Sorcerer (Draconic - boost to AC, Green Flame Blade, Shield, Absorb Elements; Defensive elements are obvious, and Green Flame Blade will be the attack of choice on rounds where my bonus action is otherwise engaged and when I don't want to waste a spell slot on Hex for the current slate of enemies)
Fighter (Dueling for the last bit of damage I can squeeze out of this mess; might skip this and just go straight to 2nd level of an existing class)

That will put me at 6th level doing either a Spear+Unarmed (+8 1d8+2d6+6 / +7 1d4+1d6+4) or GFB (+8 3d8+2d6+6) for my Max Power attack(s), depending on circumstances. That should be more than competitive with the rest of the party, while also giving me an astounding amount of utility to deal with a wide variety of circumstances. Up to level 8, which again is about as high as I expect to go, I'll just grab a 2nd level of whatever classes seem like they'll offer the most depending on the state of the campaign of the time. Fighter 2 / Rogue 2 / Warlock 2 all seem like the obvious picks, but I'll just have to see how the game goes.

Thank you to everyone for the wonderful advice and feedback.

Nhorianscum
2019-01-20, 12:30 AM
Was gonna plug inovation wiz here but OP seems to have a fun setup already

Citan
2019-01-20, 07:04 AM
We're starting a new game soon, beginning at level 2. After some consideration of where I wanted to take the character, I realized that for the first time I actually had a fairly strong motivation to actually attempt a build using a large number of different classes.

The initial build I have is Rogue 1/ Cleric of Knowledge 1. The character will be starting with Expertise in all knowledge skills, and I intend to play him as something of a constant researcher. He wants to understand everything, discover new things, and constantly redefine how he views the world. Originally I was going to mostly level Rogue after this, but upon consideration of options, and thinking of what personality I'm aiming for, I realized this character might actually take half a dozen different classes.

Now, as soon as I began considering this option, I tried to think of viability options. I'm not interested in playing a useless character, a burden the rest of the party has to carry around. So I've been trying to figure out how many classes I can take and get some actual use out of, while still being a contributing character in combat. I wanted to run my thoughts by all of you to see 1) Does what I have seem viable? and 2) Do you see any ways to improve it? or maybe 3) Should I just not?

Starting stats were rolled as 11, 17, 13, 13, 13, 14 (this also contributed to my consideration of a large multiclass). Human variant, with final stats of:
STR 11, DEX 18, CON 13, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 13

Taking Crossbow Expert and picking up a hand crossbow, with the idea the bonus attack from that will substitute for a lot of lost "baseline" combat proficiency.

Just going to list off the assumed attack rolls at each level, to give an idea of combat viability.

Start as Rogue 1/Cleric of Knowledge 1, giving a very wide array of proficiency and a smattering of casting ability. Guidance helps to make up for lower stats in secondary skills for all those skill checks.
+6 2d6+4 (sneak attack)
+6 1d6+4

Level 3 is in Warlock. This gives an additional spell slot per short rest, but most importantly Hex. The patron benefit is also nice, and I'm currently leaning towards Great Old One.
+6 3d6+4 (sneak attack + hex)
+6 2d6+4 (hex)

Level 4 is in Fighter. The fighting style gives a nice boost to attack rolls, with the hope that higher accuracy and consistency helps damage output in the long run.
+8 3d6+4
+8 2d6+4

And... admittedly, that's where I cap out on anything that adds really combat viability. For level 5, I'm considering Wizard (more spells + spell slot restoration) or Sorcerer (lots of cantrips for more utility + sorcerous origin for a variety of small buffs).

The game is unlikely to go much beyond 8th level. So again, my basic question - does this seem viable and competitive enough to not detract from the group? Alternatively, is it too min maxed early? For reference, the rest of the group is likely to make baseline straight classed characters. So far I know we'll have a bard and a warlock. It'd be relatively simple to control the power gain on this just by when I choose to take each additional class. Take a lesser option a levels 3 and 5, for instance, to slow combat gain vs the faster ascent here. Alternatively, if you have a good idea for a class to take in the midst of this to boost things up, that works too. My plan would be to do this until level 5 or 6, and then begin to actually take level 2 for some of those classes. So not trying for a true "all classes" build, just an extreme multiclass.

Hi !

I love those kind of challenges.
First, I suggest you search the forum for posts about "All classes" or "12 classes" characters. This is of course way beyond what you want because those are about the plain craziness of the challenge.
Yet they provide many interesting bits about how to make a 6+ class character viable.

To summarize though.
1. Many classes means (usually) heavier MADness due to prerequisites. Meaning you have to make it so you can still work from one stat OR get buffs to offset lowish stat.

The easiest to work with stats-wise are as follows: Charisma, Wisdom, Dexterity, Strength, Intelligence.

In other words, you can still be very effective as a 5+ classes character as long as you decide you make Charisma your primary stat and dip into Hexblade Warlock.

Especially since, also...

2. Many classes means very little ASI/feats to work with unless you either don't go more than tri-class or pick Fighter high enough to get one bonus ASI.

So the choice of Variant Human for extra feat or race suiting the attributes you favor is even more important.

3. Many classes with caster features means unless you dip classes that share same stat you'll have a lower DC than others. This is not actually such a big deal at higher level since proficiency offsets that, but it does mean it's better to focus on non-stat dependent spells.

Fortunately, all classes get spells that are extremely useful and meet that requirement. :)
Especially the rituals: they range from "comfort spell" to "save the day" spell and represent different constraints for their casters: even the Wizard has to either find them (thank the DM) or learn them (which mean taking the place of other great spells), Druids and Clerics must at least prepare them, and Bards have to actually learn them simply.
If you can take that load off them, you'll be appreciated, no doubt on that. :)

4. Many classes with caster features means you'll never get anything more than 5th level spells best case, and very possibly no higher than 3rd level spells.

This again is not a big deal as long as you are aware of it and think about it as a consequence.
Many great spells upcast very well, both offensively and defensively, so as long as you get slots, you are still a great asset to the party.

5. Many classes means little chance to get Extra Attack or more generally powerful martial-enhancing features. Unless of course you decide to make a "chassis" with one class getting Extra Attack at level 5 or 6 and start with it.
It is not necessarily a big deal though, but it does mean you have to choose whether you want to deal high damage with weapon attacks as an Action or not.
If you do, not that many options: best way is to go melee with Booming Blade or GreenFlame Blade, tack any source of extra damage you can, and ensure you can make that attack connect (so ways to buff accuracy one way or another).
If you do not, then no problem: you can still use your action to unleash powerful/useful cantrips (Eldricht Blast, Thorns Whip, Ray of Frost), Help a friend, use a repeatable spell, cast a spell, etc.

More generally, as far as "getting good contribution on offense goes", provided the option "I can still use just a single stat AND I can maximize it" isn't possible for your concept, ways to be efficient are...
- control the battlefield through environment: creating obscurement (Sleet Storm, Darkness) or difficult terrain (Spike Growth, Web), blocking passageway (Walls)...
- buff friendlys (Circle of Power, Haste, Polymorph, Greater Invisibility etc).
- help friendlys (Help action, Shoving a guy prone, Grappling another trying to escape, or even making checks to discern a creature's weaknesses. But also healing, preventing damage etc).
- increase party's overall action economy (aforementioned Haste, but mainly and more importantly conjurations).

6. Many classes means (this time it's a goodie) chance to get extra good in some skills or get extra wideness of proficiency. If a 6+ party, chances are having one skill-monkey will be overkill.
In 4- parties, this one guy really pulls his weight.
And it's not that hard to be good at that: Knowledge Cleric (10-minute proficiency in whatever once per short rest), Bard (Expertise, Jack of All Trades, Enhance Ability, Skill Empowerment), Rogue (Expertise, Reliable Talent -although this one is unreachable for you), Lucky feat, Skilled feat, UA "expertise feats", etc...
Unless your campaign is all about combat, there should be at least some space to shine with social-related skills. And if your DM properly implements EVERYTHING about D&D (meaning checks related to investigations, adventuring, creature's analysis etc), you can be the best element of your party.

So, some (non-exhaustive list) of the best overall ways to be useful to ANY party while making whatever crazy multiclass you get is...
1. Be a Tome Warlock 5-7 as a chassis, IF you think there will be other casters in your party (that can share their rituals for you so they don't even have to prepare them) OR the DM will give many as loot.
You have decent AC (with Shield and Mirror Image as backup), decent melee (Booming Blade + possibly Shadow Blade), good ranged (Repelling Blast), all the good creative cantrips (Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, Thaumaturgy, Mold Earth) and an assortment of many great ritual spells (Alarm, Speak With Animals, Phantom Steed, Leomund's Tiny Hut, etc).

2. Be a Druid 5 / Life Cleric 1 as a chassis, with Ritual Caster: Wizard: you can cover most party needs, you are an impressive healer, and just Conjure Animals means you help party in travel, scouting, spying and fighting.

3. Be a Paladin (preferably Devotion -for global accuracy-, Vengeance -to be good against one guy- or Redemption -for the awesome Channel Divinity-) 6 (or 7 if Ancients for awesome aura) with possibly one level of Hexblade Warlock for cantrip and/or one level of Rogue for Expertise.
You'll get Bless plus channel divinity to help with your to-hit or deal great damage, your auras will be much welcomed, and you can go CHA-based (meaning you can also ditch heavy armor to be reasonably stealthy). With one level in Rogue for Expertise in Athletics, you can also help your pals reliably by shoving people even with only a 14 in STR.

4. Be a Gloomstalker Ranger 5+ with one level of Life Cleric: Life+Healing Spirit means you can carry your party as long as nobody dies, you also get Pass Without Trace and Goodberry to help traveling light and sneaky. And you're still a Ranger, which is a great, underestimed class. And Gloomstalker nets you also Rope Trick to help party. And you can Bless yourself and others to offset your possibly lowerish DEX (in case you multiclass in non-DEX, non-WIS classes later).

5. Be a Glamour Bard 5+ with any way to get medium armor proficiency (feat, one-level dip into Fighter or some Clerics -Knowledge Cleric recommended-, Hexblade Warlock). Its special use of Bardic Inspiration can be awesome, especially since you can use it round after round. Between Jack of all Trade and Expertise, you can take care of non-combat situations. In fight, you get enough battlefield control spells to help.

6. Be a Divine Soul Sorcerer 5 with ways to get better armor: you can Twin Haste and let people do the work for you, or you can help party prepare with Extend Aid (of course later upcasted with your levels taken in whatever caster class). Better armor could be gotten from Tempest Cleric 2 for awesome AOE at times, or Grave Cleric to help a fellow Paladin deal extremely deadly damage. ^^



Now for some crazy multiclass ideas. Or actually just one, no time for everything (plus, each time I'm telling to myself I really should put all those on a document I put on signature because the forum's search is painfully inefficient, and personal history does not backtrack far).

"The Bearer": Variant Human (Inspiring Leader or Healer feat)
Bear (or Wolf) Barbarian 3+ / Divine Soul Sorcerer 3+ / Celestial Chain Warlock 3 with "Gift of the Ever Living" / Thief Rogue 3
The concepts relies on the idea of tagging along a frontliner that could not sustain that much damage (at low levels, basically anything else than Barbarian or EK with Shield), using (Extended) Warding Bond and possibly Extended Aid, then spending turns between uses of Healer kit (on action or bonus action), Celestial's bonus action heal, or simply Attacking/Helping/Shoving enemies prone depending on your Barb's archetype choice and situation.
Thanks to the invocation, you are ensured to always get maximum healing either from yourself or friends because you'll keep your (invisible) familiar close to you.

A variant in the same spirit but different implementation.

Life Cleric 6 / Druid 3 / Shadow Sorcerer 3 (possibly with Find Familiar one way or another): idea here is to use Twin Warding Bond (yeah, I'm not afraid) after an Extended Aid before previous long rest on all three of you. Then maintaining Healing Spirit over one of your ally (only moving when really necessary), while using Healing Words when needed on the other. Both cases you'll still be healed. AND since it has been confirmed by Crawford's tweets that damage transfered is still affected by whatever features you may have, you could even use Blade Ward as an action to reduce regular damage. Or use a cantrip like Thorns Whip to help keep enemies where you want it.

If there is someone else that can do the healing, you could go differently and use the classic Spirit Guardians + Spiritual Weapon or Quickened Guiding Bolt. Or use the same SP but combined with Warding Bond so you spend time dodging to avoid taking more damage directly.

Obviously you'll need Constitution proficiency for that, meaning start Sorcerer. Warcaster on top may actually be a good idea too. ^^

EDIT: Hmm, seems I completely missed the mark by writing general advice and build suggestions. Didn't realize so many things were set for OP's character already, should have taken the time to properly read all thread. XD

The build in post 12 seems pretty well thought out. Well, I won't delete my post in case others find it interesting, but imo OP you're good to go. Have fun ;)

Talionis
2019-01-20, 11:18 PM
18 Dex is smart it’s your to hit and AC. Many have pointed out what is not working for you, but one thing that does work for you and fall in line with the personality of your character is you can/will know a lot of cantrips.

Guidance is a must to make your knowledge checks better.

Booming Blade and Green Flame use your weapon to hit which is good since your caster stats aren’t as good and you won’t have ASI to improve them. They also can work with a spear. But cantrips improve by Character Level not class level and since you aren’t getting class levels these cantrips from Sword Coast are big help.

SpamCreateWater
2019-01-21, 01:11 AM
I'm so torn! Seeker is exactly the kind of flavor I want, and somehow I'd never read that UA before. However... I'm disappointed in the class's abilities - not because they're weak, per se, but just because I don't think they do a very good job of matching that flavor. But there's also almost a Travel domain tinge to it as well that doesn't really fit my concept, so I suppose that's natural. So not a bad Patron, but not quite what I was hoping for.

Anyway, I just thought I'd circle back around on this and share the build I decided to go with. Still have to run a rule matter by the DM, but I think he'll be ok with it.

After talking before about a melee build, I started thinking through a few different concepts, and I've landed on Rogue1/Monk1 as my starting classes, with Spear Mastery as my starting feat. I really like the tactical options that feat opens up, and (I'm going to argue) the fact it's a monk weapon and thus I can use Dex with it should let me sneak attack with it. (Yes, I'm aware a RAW or even RAI look at the rules says this is not so, but I don't think it's out of the line question, and I think I'll receive his permission to do so.) (If he really hates it, I'll just switch to Short Sword and pick a different feat, or maybe even just go normal human.) This will give me a strong main attack, and a bonus action attack to stack bonuses on and to act as a second chance for Sneak Attack if the main hit misses.

From there, the planned build (and reasons for each) are:

Cleric (to flesh out character concept with Knowledge domain, and grab a few utility cantrips)
Warlock (more cantrips, Hex, and a short rest spell slot; Picking up True Strike so that when the enemy starts far away, my round will be Action: True Strike, Bonus Action: Ready vs Charge, so when the enemy moves adjacent I'll attack with advantage for 2d10+1d6+4, which should be a fun opener for combat)
Sorcerer (Draconic - boost to AC, Green Flame Blade, Shield, Absorb Elements; Defensive elements are obvious, and Green Flame Blade will be the attack of choice on rounds where my bonus action is otherwise engaged and when I don't want to waste a spell slot on Hex for the current slate of enemies)
Fighter (Dueling for the last bit of damage I can squeeze out of this mess; might skip this and just go straight to 2nd level of an existing class)

That will put me at 6th level doing either a Spear+Unarmed (+8 1d8+2d6+6 / +7 1d4+1d6+4) or GFB (+8 3d8+2d6+6) for my Max Power attack(s), depending on circumstances. That should be more than competitive with the rest of the party, while also giving me an astounding amount of utility to deal with a wide variety of circumstances. Up to level 8, which again is about as high as I expect to go, I'll just grab a 2nd level of whatever classes seem like they'll offer the most depending on the state of the campaign of the time. Fighter 2 / Rogue 2 / Warlock 2 all seem like the obvious picks, but I'll just have to see how the game goes.

Thank you to everyone for the wonderful advice and feedback.

I'm currently playing what will eventually be a Wizard 4 / Cleric 4 / Sorcerer 4 / Warlock 3 / Druid 1 / ??? (potentially Bard, though have considered Rogue) 4.

It's been a tonne of fun so far. I worked with my DM for my first 12 levels and he was happy enough with the plan that gave me a feat every 4 as though I had taken 4 levels of a single class - my first 9 levels are Sorcerer 3 / Wizard 3 / Cleric 3 (not necessarily in that order).

It's come in handy for plot reasons and relieving the headache of our group taking forever to do anything. The boss fight prior to my first level of Sorcerer gave him an idea, so he worked a teleportation spell into the mechanics. I dinged and we all got to go back to our home base without the travelling, bickering, and shopping session that always seems to happen when we're on the road.
My eventual level of Warlock may not be so eventual if the plot (or DM) demands I take it earlier - we're running through an AP and I'm of the impression demons are coming our way soon. If it makes sense for me to take that level in Warlock earlier, I'll do it.

I still contribute to combat, though I'm mostly about the non-damaging spells.

This may not be at all helpful for your situation, especially if you end up taking a great number of non-spellcasting levels. I'm trucking along fine alongside a Matt Mercer death knight hunter things that is either being read wrong or is an absolute over-the-top beast of a class in combat. If I'm doing okay, I'm sure you'll be fine. Though I guess it depends on what you want from your game time. I'm more than happy to cede the damage numbers to someone else, I'll just sit here and be the helpful "Oh, I have an answer to that" member - though it does help that the only single classed spellcaster is quite happy with simple.

Lastly, for me, Sorcerer, once you hit level 3 for Metamagic (Subtle spell), is always a blast.

As someone else pointed out, don't overload your Bonus Action options.

Erm, I will finish my ramblings here. I continue to be interrupted, so I apologise for this mess.