Magus Eldricht Scion: 1 level of Monk (Scaled Fist/War Schollar) worth it?

[olorin00]

Hello there, I am trying to build a Magus Eldricht Scion (I love the magus but dont like to prepare spell) and the pathfinder kingmaker video game gave me the idea of dipping 1 level into the scaling fist monk archetype. I read many Magus guide, but I never found any that suggested to do it and I would like to receive your advice on it (and maybe I missed something that make it not good).


So here I go

Race: Either a Kistune or Catfolk/Fetchling/Ifrit if DM allow

Stats with 25 points:

STR: 10 DEX 16+2 CON 12 INT 14 WIS 6 CHA 16+2 (INT 14 to still have a few skill points even with the low 2+int of the magus; reverse STR and WIS for Kitsune)

1 level of Monk Scaled Fist (SF) AND War Scholar (WS)

Necessary Feat: Weapon Finesse (level 1)
Necessary equipment: Agile amulet of the Mighty Fist (as soon as possible)

Benefits:
- + Cha on AC, even with light armor (SF + WS)
- +1 intuition bonus to attack (WS)
- Monster Lore: + charism to knowledge skill (the Draconic Might ability of the SF transform all wisdom class bonus to charism bonus, other archetype ability count as class ability right?)
- Battle focus: +1 to dmg for CHA round (move action)
- Improved unarmed strike: ability to make lethal or non lethal, count as both manufactured and natural weapon, can make unarmed strike with hand full
- Bonus Feat (base monk list + Dragon Style and Intimidating Prowess) (SF) (Can you use an agile amulet of the mighty fist to transform the Dragon style STR bonus to a DEX bonus? If not the best is probably Dodge)
- More class skills and 6+int skill points (WS

No flurry of blows (but it doesnt work with spellstrike anyway), no stunning fist (meh)

I think the + CHA bonus on AC with light armor alone is well worth it; the rest is just "small" bonus


Level 2+: Magus Eldricht Scion (you can actually start with Magus then take the monk at 2 or even later)

I think the best way to go at this point is to use transformation that give you the most natural attack to use the agile amulet of mighty fist, and spell like Frostbite that increase damage for every attack
A lot of guide suggest to also take the Staff Magus achetype; I dont really see the point: the 1st level bonus is meh, the 7th bonus is nice (+staff enchancement to AC) but it's a shield bonus so it doesnt stack with shield (the spell); and it replace medium armor. While I wont wear real medium armor (or I would loose my CHA bonus to AC), I need the medium armor proficiency to wear mithral medium armor and similar (that count as light armor but require the medium armor proficiency).


Additionnals questions:

- The Natural Spell Combat Arcana say that if the natural attack doesnt require a free appendage, you can use it in addition to all of the attacks he could make with his weapon; since the monk unarmed strike count as a natural attack and doesnt require a free hand, can it be combined? I take the Natural Spell Combat for monk Unarmed Strike, and use it with feet in addition to my melee weapon attack

- What Bloodline to Choose: most guide seem to use arcana, I see the benefit of having those free blur/displacement/self haste, but you can cast them without it as a magus (as part of your attack); Destined seem pretty good for the huge AC and save luck bonus (increase by 1 with Fate's Favored Traits); draconic is appealing too for claws, bonus to AC and breath weapon; or maybe even elemental to increase even more the transformation/frostbite combo


That's all I can think of at the moment but will probably post more questions as I think of them. I will try to post a level 8 or 9 build too, when I got time.

I would really appreciate any comment and help on this build (as well as some answer to the points I am not sure of (in red)).

Thanks in advance

[Firebug]

Both Scaled Fist and War Scholar replace Maneuver Training so they do not stack. (Also both modify Bonus Feats) Since War Scholar modifies Maneuver Training, I don't think it can be an Unchained Monk.

That being said, I can really tell that War Scholar is 3rd party, that archetype is both crazy strong and poorly written.

For your additional questions, well ... you don't get Monk Unarmed Strike, War Scholar's Rapid Planning (even though you get Rapid Planning at 2nd) replaces it.
Also, you don't get the bonus feat at level 1, because the Teamwork Feat at level 3 replaces all of your bonus feats.

Bloodlines: Bear in mind that unless the power explicitly calls it out, the bloodline powers are only 'on' when in Mystical Focus. That is why Arcane is suggested, being able to change the Resistance every couple rounds as needed and still dish out your normal damage spells. Activating Mystic Focus is a Swift Action, making a lot of the other Bloodlines practically useless because it is also a Swift to do additional damage in Elemental, Infernal, Martyred, etc. The natural attack bloodlines, well if it gives you 2 claw attacks, you can only use 1 of them with Natural Spell Combat. So... either get a bunch of non-standard additional natural attacks and spend an Arcana on each, or go a different route.

Shadow could be fun if you build toward it.

[Kurald Galain]

It's not great as a combo; the main benefit is a slightly higher AC, at the drawback of getting all your Magus class abilities a level later. The catch here is that the Magus's spells provide a much better defense than AC does; this means that a big investment (of a whole level!) to improve your AC is not great on this class.

You can't use battle focus in the same round as spell combat, and you basically want to use spell combat as often as possible; so battle focus doesn't really help. You can either take IUS normally or skip it if you're willing to use brass knuckles or similar. And as Firebug points out, these two monk archetypes don't stack.

The key to the arcana bloodline is that action economy wins combats. Getting two or three spells as one swift action in addition to spell combat the same round? Yeah that's pretty strong :smallamused:
The key to the staff Magus is that at the level where it gives a shield bonus, you'll be casting better defensive buffs than the shield spell; so it's not a problem that they don't stack. In terms of defense it's probably the strongest archetype.

[olorin00]

You are right I didnt see the overlap between scaled fist and war scholar, damn.


For the Staff magus, I still dont see the point. At level 7, your max enchancement bonus would probably be around 3 (staff +1 and +2 arcane pool enchancement, wich mean you use all your arcane pool mod for it, rather than for keen/flaming/etc), so it still lower than shield. I get that you may not cast shield on your first round of a surprise attack, but you will definetly cast it when you get the time (or use a wand for it). Plus Staff Magus mean that you dont have Medium armor proficiency (another +2 lost AC) and use a pretty bad weapon. I can see the use at high level (with a staff with +4 or +5 bonus, with access to celestial armor, who doesnt require medium armor proficiency, etc.) but I am still not convinced on a average campaign (which for us is like level 12 at the end, with +3 items max)


Anyway, tks for the quick reply, I am gonna work on it more (without the monk dib).

[Kurald Galain]

I get that you may not cast shield on your first round of a surprise attack, but you will definetly cast it when you get the time (or use a wand for it).
The key here is action economy. Given how few rounds the average combat lasts, once you've got access to second- or third-level spells you'll be casting those instead of shield, not in addition to shield.

[olorin00]

I get that, but with arcane bloodline you can cast some with it, plus at level 7-10, I would rather spend my arcane pool on some other bonus (like keen to get a 15-20 crit rate and crit the spellstrike spell). And even if I dont, the +3 bonus to AC from Staff Magus is barelly better than the lost AC from Medium armor (+2). Plus shield have a nice duration at this level, so if you can prepare, you have it.

Anyway what I am trying to say is that I feel that the lost (no medium/heavy armor, no good weapon, sacrificing arcane pool) seem a lot for a +1 to AC only on surprise attack (again I am talking about mid level, 7-12; I get that at higher level, the bonus from your staff magic enhancement alone is better than shield, plus the level 10 ability seem quite nice (to recharge a powerfull staff).

Anyway, since the monk diping isnt working, I will probably switch to a str version, so staff magus wont even be an option (need medium/heavy armor); only problem I see is I wont have enough stats points to get int 14 and with the 2+int skills points of the magus, I will have really few skills :s