An omae wa mou shindeiru build

[maruahm]

The DM told me to build a meme character, so I picked me a meme and have been looking at character options. The premise is this: every time I'm about to kill something, I must say "omae wa mou shindeiru," give my opponent the chance to reply "nani!!??" but not act, then kill them in melee combat before they can act. My DM will work with me by having them say "nani!!??" whenever I prompt them, but I'm considering taking the challenge of losing XP every time I fail to kill my opponents after I say the magic words.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, it's also really bad form to have attacked my opponent before saying the magic words. It defeats the purpose!

I only have some super vague thoughts about how it'll work, unfortunately. Something like a Iaijutsu Focus Warblade with Knowledge Devotion, going into Eternal Blade ASAP. My bread and butter will be readying a standard action to strike just after my opponent says "nani!!??" Occasionally I'll be able to use Moment in Time to get in a full attack, but generally it seems impossible to rely on them.

I want my build to be functional throughout all levels, or as close to it as possible.

Any suggestions? Maneuvers, tricks, ways to make it viable at low and high levels?

BTW this is a really unoptimized party of two druids, a wizard, a sorcerer, and a rogue (lol).

Also BTW, I'm not not using a katana. And I pledge to only build and play this character while mildly drunk.

[Venger]

Warblade is indeed probably a good route. Stormguard warrior is a good fit for your schtick. You can make multiple touch attacks with your aoos and build damage to symbolize the rapid blows ken makes, and then land a damage boosted blow as your finisher.

[maruahm]

Warblade is indeed probably a good route. Stormguard warrior is a good fit for your schtick. You can make multiple touch attacks with your aoos and build damage to symbolize the rapid blows ken makes, and then land a damage boosted blow as your finisher.

That's a super neat feat I totally forgot about. Worth to pick up thicket of blades for synergy, and if so, through feats or a dip? Also, reminds me - Robilar's gambit should synergize too, IIRC.

[ben-zayb]

Since many mid to high op fights just end up being minimal-turn rocket tags, what you described already happens normally.

Just keep your initiative high. For a high level Warblade, have Quicksilver Motion readied for a massive boost.

[maruahm]

Just keep your initiative high. For a high level Warblade, have Quicksilver Motion readied for a massive boost.

IMHO, it's pointless until I can use Moment in Time (super late game) since I can only ready standard actions, so I may as well make use of my move actions to move.

Or did you have some other concept in mind? The conceit of my build is to pile damage on a standard attack, since I can't ready a full attack.

[Venger]

That's a super neat feat I totally forgot about. Worth to pick up thicket of blades for synergy, and if so, through feats or a dip? Also, reminds me - Robilar's gambit should synergize too, IIRC.
If that's the only maneuver you want you can't natively access through warblade (warblade 20 is a perfectly solid stub) then you can just get an item that allows you to do thicket of blades. no need for martial study if you can't spare the feat.

robilar's gambit is fine. looks like you're doing a lockdown build, as ever warblade handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?176968-Masters-of-the-Sword-A-Warblade-s-Handbook-Under-Construction) is helpful in helping to evaluate maneuvers, feats, etc.

[Crake]

Isn't this literally the monk level 15 ability quivering palm?


Quivering Palm (Su)

Starting at 15th level, a monk can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if the monk so desires. She can use this quivering palm attack once a week, and she must announce her intent before making her attack roll. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. Otherwise, if the monk strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the quivering palm attack succeeds. Thereafter the monk can try to slay the victim at any later time, as long as the attempt is made within a number of days equal to her monk level. To make such an attempt, the monk merely wills the target to die (a free action), and unless the target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + ½ the monk’s level + the monk’s Wis modifier), it dies. If the saving throw is successful, the target is no longer in danger from that particular quivering palm attack, but it may still be affected by another one at a later time.

Edit: The issue here is of course that it comes down to a save, but if you can find a way to boost the save sufficiently high, then you should be fine. Note that while this is a save or die, it is not a [Death] effect, so things like death ward won't protect you.

Edit2: If you take this with robilars gambit or karmic strike (the poor man's robilar's gambit), you can use quivering palm in response to an attack, say your line, have them say their line, and then kill them. 1/week is also painful.

Edit3: For extra "nani?!" you can add the mosquito's bite skill trick to make the opponent think you missed.

Edit4:


EDIT: Forgot to mention, it's also really bad form to have attacked my opponent before saying the magic words. It defeats the purpose!

Doesn't it go flurry of attacks - > Enemy seems fine -> Omaewa mou shindeiru -> Nani?! -> Dead? So to stick to the meme, you HAVE to attack before speaking?

[OgresAreCute]

If it matters, talking is a free action you can take out of turn, so they can reply "Nani?!" during the same turn you approach and attack them.


In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn’t your turn. Speaking more than few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.

So you can move up, say your catchphrase (or Kenshiro's catchphrase, as it may be), wait for them to reply, then kill them and you don't need to mess with readied actions or anything like that. Might not be what you wanted to go for, but worth keeping in mind if messing with the readied actions and such ends up being too janky or difficult to make work.


also painful.

Monk summarized.

[Crake]

Monk summarized.

Yeah, but at the same time, the ability is pretty much exactly what OP wants, right? I don't normally support monks, but this is a meme build after all.

[OgresAreCute]

Yeah, but at the same time, the ability is pretty much exactly what OP wants, right? I don't normally support monks, but this is a meme build after all.

Other than the 1/week limit, sure. Flurry of unarmed attacks into quivering palm is pretty much perfect. Sadly the use limit, the save DC and monk's suckiness kinda puts a hamper on it. If the DM is willing to use some homebrew fixes for Monk it'd be great, though. As far as I can see, the OP doesn't mention the OP-level of this game, but even if it is fairly low, quivering palm being 1/week is going to ruin the fun somewhat.

[Crake]

Other than the 1/week limit, sure. Flurry of unarmed attacks into quivering palm is pretty much perfect. Sadly the use limit, the save DC and monk's suckiness kinda puts a hamper on it. If the DM is willing to use some homebrew fixes for Monk it'd be great, though. As far as I can see, the OP doesn't mention the OP-level of this game, but even if it is fairly low, quivering palm being 1/week is going to ruin the fun somewhat.

Yeah, I was gonna put in my post (but by that point i'd reached too many edits :smalltongue: ) that OP should ask if his DM is willing to reduce the usage to 1/day or maybe even 1/encounter, since martial initiators around that level get feral death blow, an almost at-will save or die. I would also maybe make it so the enemy rolls the save when they get hit, and the monk knows the result, so you don't get into a situation where they say nani, roll their save, and pass, not dying, leaving the whole thing flat.

[OgresAreCute]

Yeah, I was gonna put in my post (but by that point i'd reached too many edits :smalltongue: ) that OP should ask if his DM is willing to reduce the usage to 1/day or maybe even 1/encounter, since martial initiators around that level get feral death blow, an almost at-will save or die. I would also maybe make it so the enemy rolls the save when they get hit, and the monk knows the result, so you don't get into a situation where they say nani, roll their save, and pass, not dying, leaving the whole thing flat.

Sounds like a good start. I'm also a fan of bumping up their chassis to full BAB/d10 hit die/6 skill points per level but those changes would be unrelated to this particular issue.

[maruahm]

If it matters, talking is a free action you can take out of turn, so they can reply "Nani?!" during the same turn you approach and attack them.



So you can move up, say your catchphrase (or Kenshiro's catchphrase, as it may be), wait for them to reply, then kill them and you don't need to mess with readied actions or anything like that. Might not be what you wanted to go for, but worth keeping in mind if messing with the readied actions and such ends up being too janky or difficult to make work.

Wow, TIL. Can people even talk on a surprise round if they're not in it? That seems... unintended.

:smallconfused: Well now there's no point to any of this build shenanigans. I hope you're happy with yourself.


Yeah, but at the same time, the ability is pretty much exactly what OP wants, right? I don't normally support monks, but this is a meme build after all.

I forgot monks had levels past 2. But you're right, monks are already memes, so it only makes sense that a meme build would incorporate monk.


Other than the 1/week limit, sure. Flurry of unarmed attacks into quivering palm is pretty much perfect. Sadly the use limit, the save DC and monk's suckiness kinda puts a hamper on it. If the DM is willing to use some homebrew fixes for Monk it'd be great, though. As far as I can see, the OP doesn't mention the OP-level of this game, but even if it is fairly low, quivering palm being 1/week is going to ruin the fun somewhat.

Super low. Most of the players are coming in from 5e and totally new. The DM is a veteran player of mine for several years now, and we've switched roles so he can learn some DMing himself. I don't want to do houserule fixes since I want him to have a pretty vanilla DMing experience. Also, homebrewing a meme is super lame. Memes should be organically grown RAW.

Quivering palm 1/week is going to completely ruin the fun, since our initial game will be dungeon crawling. So back to the drawing board for me, then. How should I mechanically represent omae wa mou shendeiruing in an interesting way?

[OgresAreCute]

Wow, TIL. Can people even talk on a surprise round if they're not in it? That seems... unintended.

:smallconfused: Well now there's no point to any of this build shenanigans. I hope you're happy with yourself.

I am the patty-cake fun-ruining champion. Edit: As for surprise rounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/initiative.htm#surprise), those who are not surprised can take one standard action. After that it says
You can also take free actions during the surprise round. Out of context, this could be taken to mean anyone can take free actions, but I'm fairly certain only those who are not surprised are allowed to. Under the "Unaware combatants" heading, it also says
Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don’t get to act in the surprise round. I'd say not being able to act means you can't take free actions (or any other form of action, for that matter).


Super low. Most of the players are coming in from 5e and totally new. The DM is a veteran player of mine for several years now, and we've switched roles so he can learn some DMing himself. I don't want to do houserule fixes since I want him to have a pretty vanilla DMing experience. Also, homebrewing a meme is super lame. Memes should be organically grown RAW.

Quivering palm 1/week is going to completely ruin the fun, since our initial game will be dungeon crawling. So back to the drawing board for me, then. How should I mechanically represent omae wa mou shendeiruing in an interesting way?

Fair points, all. Quivering Palm also first makes its appearance at level 15, and if your entire group is new I imagine you're starting at level 1?

[Crake]

If you're not opposed to using spells to duplicate the effect, the delay spell metamagic can allow you to have the "you're already dead" effect when casting a save or die? Has the same problem as quivering palm though, where they make the save when the spell comes into effect, not when you cast it, so if they pass the save it falls flat. This can be solved in the same way by just having the DM roll the save before you do your line.

If you want, you can maybe even do this with the unarmed, arcane swordsage variant, if you can figure it out, to maintain the punchiness of it all.

[maruahm]

I am the patty-cake fun-ruining champion.



Fair points, all. Quivering Palm also first makes its appearance at level 15, and if your entire group is new I imagine you're starting at level 1?

We're starting at level 4, but we'll be advancing levels pretty quickly, or just do time-skips to higher-level characters if the DM has trouble with his XP rewards. The build levels that generally interest me are 6, 12, and 18.

[OgresAreCute]

If you're not opposed to using spells to duplicate the effect, the delay spell metamagic can allow you to have the "you're already dead" effect when casting a save or die? Has the same problem as quivering palm though, where they make the save when the spell comes into effect, not when you cast it, so if they pass the save it falls flat. This can be solved in the same way by just having the DM roll the save before you do your line.

If you want, you can maybe even do this with the unarmed, arcane swordsage variant, if you can figure it out, to maintain the punchiness of it all.

I don't think Arcane/Unarmed Swordsage is a good fit for this game, since the description of it is less rules and more a bunch of suggestions or guidelines. If OP wanted let the DM run a game without homebrew or houseruled content, Arcane/Unarmored Swordsage is literally impossible to use.

[maruahm]

If you're not opposed to using spells to duplicate the effect, the delay spell metamagic can allow you to have the "you're already dead" effect when casting a save or die? Has the same problem as quivering palm though, where they make the save when the spell comes into effect, not when you cast it, so if they pass the save it falls flat. This can be solved in the same way by just having the DM roll the save before you do your line.

If you want, you can maybe even do this with the unarmed, arcane swordsage variant, if you can figure it out, to maintain the punchiness of it all.

That's a really good suggestion. Unfortunately, the arcane swordsage also falls into the category of a "suggestion" and not an official class, and that's another thing I don't want to swing by a new DM, but the core concept of a save-or-die wizard/monk build with the Delay Spell metamagic is a solid one.

[OgresAreCute]

That's a really good suggestion. Unfortunately, the arcane swordsage also falls into the category of a "suggestion" and not an official class, and that's another thing I don't want to swing by a new DM, but the core concept of a save-or-die wizard/monk build with the Delay Spell metamagic is a solid one.

I'd rather use Cleric than Wizard for Wisdom synergy and access to Divine Metamagic if I were you. You could use Carmendine Monk/Kung-Fu Genius for Int synergy with Wizard instead though. Cleric also has better hit die and attack bonus than a wizard, which is nice if you're planning on punching people (and it seems like you are).

[Crake]

I'd rather use Cleric than Wizard for Wisdom synergy and access to Divine Metamagic if I were you. You could use Carmendine Monk/Kung-Fu Genius for Int synergy with Wizard instead though. Cleric also has better hit die and attack bonus than a wizard, which is nice if you're planning on punching people (and it seems like you are).

Cleric also get slay living at level 9, as opposed to wizard's finger of death (which is also ranged, rather than melee, so can't be incorporated into an unarmed strike) at level 13.

[maruahm]

Very solid points. Some Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist build seems to be the best choice, then. DMM'd Delay Spell slay living or harm would be a good bread-and-butter tactic for 9th-level and higher. Are there any good touch-attack damage dealers below 9th-level for clerics?

[OgresAreCute]

Cleric also get slay living at level 9, as opposed to wizard's finger of death (which is also ranged, rather than melee, so can't be incorporated into an unarmed strike) at level 13.

I wanted to mention slay living, but I figured everyone got some flavor of save-or-die at level 9. Psions get Psychic Crush as a 5th level power, for example. Flesh-to-Ice is a save-or-die as a 5th level spell, I suppose, but that's not core and it certainly isn't a good flavor fit :smallamused:


Very solid points. Some Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist build seems to be the best choice, then. DMM'd Delay Spell slay living or harm would be a good bread-and-butter tactic for 9th-level and higher. Are there any good touch-attack damage dealers below 9th-level for clerics?

Well, there's always the Inflict line of spells, I suppose. If you're an Evil cleric or a Neutral cleric with an Evil or Neutral deity you can even convert to them spontaneously.

[maruahm]

I wanted to mention slay living, but I figured everyone got some flavor of save-or-die at level 9. Psions get Psychic Crush as a 5th level power, for example. Flesh-to-Ice is a save-or-die as a 5th level spell, I suppose, but that's not core and it certainly isn't a good flavor fit :smallamused:



Well, there's always the Inflict line of spells, I suppose. If you're an Evil cleric or a Neutral cleric with an Evil or Neutral deity you can even convert to them spontaneously.

I'm like 90% sure I won't be getting any kills with the piddly damage from the inflict line, so my magic phrase will be falling flat more often than not.

Well, shouldn't expect anything crazy at 6th-level anyways. Kenshiro is probably higher level than that.

[Crake]

Very solid points. Some Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist build seems to be the best choice, then. DMM'd Delay Spell slay living or harm would be a good bread-and-butter tactic for 9th-level and higher. Are there any good touch-attack damage dealers below 9th-level for clerics?

Oh, I completely forgot about DMM! Fits well for the build. They aren't great, but the inflict line can be decent starters. But as a different route for early levels, what you could do is use a delayed dispel magic, in conjunction with the immediate action delay death spell, so the target gets low, you cast a delay dispel on them, then follow up with a killing blow, cast delay death as an immediate action, to stop them from dying, say your line, they say their line, then the delay spell dispel magic kicks in and removes the delay death spell and they die.

Super convoluted, yes, but unfortunately, since delay death isn't dismissable, that's what you gotta do. The other option is to cast dispel magic manually after the fact, but that gives them a chance to act before dying.

Edit: This isn't even possible at 6th, since delay death was updated in SC to be a 7th 4th level spell (available at level 7 is what I meant).

Edit2: Bestow curse when used for -6 con can deal 3x the target's HP in damage, which, assuming you're fighting soemthing level appropriate is upward of 18 damage ontop of your punch?

[ben-zayb]

1/week is also painful.Once a week is more than enough the times "Omae wa mo shindeiru" has been uttered in the source materisl if it's the manga, so I think this works.

[Psyren]

The quintessential "one-shot anything" build is the d2 Crusader.

If you're looking for something a little less likely to get books thrown at you, something with a ton of sneak attack can simulate Kenshiro's death-by-a-thousand-pokes fighting style. My personal favorite for this is Unchained Monk (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/unchained-classes/monk-unchained/) of the Mantis (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo-monk-archetypes/monk-of-the-mantis-monk-archetype/), since it actually is built around hitting pressure points really fast like Hokuto No Ken does. You can trigger your sneak attack in a variety of ways; my personal favorite is Dimensional Savant (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dimensional-savant/) since it lets you flank with yourself.

[Ken Murikumo]

If you're allowed to backport a Pathfinder feat, Pummeling style would fit this pretty well.

Get a better unarmed attack by a method of your own choice. Get as many arms as you can. Get multiweapon fighting. Get an item of constant Greater Mighty Wallop to beef up your unarmed damage. Maybe throw in a few charge multipliers and a pounce like ability (or backport pummeling charge) to do crazy amounts of damage in 1 turn.

I have a character with this concept in a game right now. He has 6 arms and gets 14 UA attacks and uses GM Wallop with charge multipliers to deal crazy amounts of damage. I agreed with the DM not to fight at full power unless we are facing a TPK otherwise and even do the "i guess i can't hold back" trope when i unload on the poor slob.

[liquidformat]

you could go cleric/Ordained Champion, channeling your spells into your melee attacks seems pretty viable. I would say duskblade for the same reason but the spells don't have as much punch

[BWR]

Monk

Parallels with Kenshiro:

- monastic life
- heir to ancient martial art
- mystical, not-quite magic ability that kills people after striking them
- can delay their death for a while so you can taunt them
- musou tensei in the form of Empty Body

Not the most powerful, but the most thematically appropriate.

[Prime32]

The Serene Guardian PrC from The Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde lets you place 1 point of Resonance on an opponent if you damage them twice or more in one round (and later 2 points if you damage them three times). You can then take a swift action to release all their Resonance, inflicting damage, debuffs or instant death. It's not usually that practical (even the death effect requires spending Resonance equal to half their HD, by which point they're probably dead anyway)... but once you place Resonance on an opponent, it lasts indefinitely until used.

[SangoProduction]

If you are willing to use Spheres of Might, there's the Lancer talent:


Pincushion Punishment
You can make a impale attempt against a creature who is currently impaled; if you do so, they take a -1 penalty to attack rolls and armor class for each weapon currently impaling them. As long as no other creatures are holding any weapons currently impaling the creature, you may choose to remove all weapons currently impaling it as an attack action by making a single combat maneuver check against the creature’s CMD, dealing damage equal to the weapon’s base damage die for each weapon removed with this talent. If you do not have enough hands to carry all of these weapons you may choose which ones to hold, with any remaining weapons falling to your feet.

Now, you need to be able to get a bunch of attacks in. Ranged is the easiest to do this with, so we'll need to take up the Ranged Impale talent, which lets you impale with thrown weapons.

Then you just need to make a lot of attacks. I do explain how to get a bunch with Spheres of Power, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?541010-Optimizing-guns!&p=22536546#post22536546), under MOAR DAKKA. (Nothing in that section is specifically about guns, even the Tension Spending, as you can have your Favored Weapon be another one handed weapon.)

However, since we are using thrown weapons, we'll also need the ability to draw weapons as fast as we can attack. Normally, that means Shurikens, because they count as ammunition...but ammunition doesn't work with Ranged Impale, so we'll need the Equipment talent, Fast Draw, which lets you draw in the same action that you attack with it. A very obstructionist interpretation would be "You made *an* attack action, so you get to draw *a* weapon," but most reasonable interpretations let you draw your weapons as you intend to attack.

---

So, at the end of this, you'll be attacking on a single standard action:
2 Barrage base talent (+1 per 5 BAB) [made at BAB(-2 per attack after first)]
1 Dual Wield base talent [made at full BAB]
1 Following Strike (If you hit with both the mainhand and offhand) [made at full BAB]
1 Striker's Tension (2 at level 7) [made at full BAB]

---

Tridents are 1-handed throwable weapons which deal 1d8 as martial weapons. Seems fitting for an impale build.
So deal 5d8 (+str, and whatever) going in, 5d8 going out.

If you took Cruel Vibrations, then the going out is automatically maximized for 40 damage.

However, since you must make an attack action for the barrage, and one to pull it out, it would actually be more action efficient to build up the barrage for as many turns as they can survive (remember, you can choose to deal like 1 damage with any attack you hit), and then rip them all out in one "Omae wa mou Shindeiru."

(You can also bump this up to 1d10 per hit with the Dwarven Sphynx Hammer, as Dwarves get them as martial weapons, which is like another 20% more damage from the "You're already dead" move. However the heck impaling someone with a hammer is supposed to work.)




.....Do note that it does actually require a CM check vs CMD...which is nearly impossible vs non-humanoid monsters without significant investment. And there are very few things that give general CMB increases, rather than for specific maneuvers.
However, if you've got a mage who's in on this with you (or maybe a non-caster, who takes a feat), you can have them cast the War sphere's Strike to give you a bonus to your check equal to their caster level (which can be up to 1/2 HD, if you have no caster levels, with a feat...+2 with a trait).

[gimley307]

There's the serene guardian prestige class that let's you stack resonance in those you hit more than once per round then as a swift action let's you release that resonance to either debuff or do damage. At level 10 you can release resonance for a save-or-die effect.

Depending on the level of your campaign, ask your DM for a buff to stacking resonance, otherwise it's kinda slow