Druid Tank build for Curse of Strahd

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

This is sort of a follow up question from one of my other threads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?578414-Spoiled-for-choice-Help-me-whittle-down-my-Curse-of-Strahd-character-options). I received a lot of good feedback on what type of support casting class I could build, but then I figured out the rest of the party and I had to essentially throw a lot of it out the window (don't worry, I'll still get good use out of it when I eventually play Bard or Sorcerer).

Current Party: Half Elf Rogue with High Elf Variant for Booming Blade cantrip (planning on Swashbuckler), Rogue/Ranger multiclass (will either continue into Arcane Trickster or Hunter Ranger depending on the party feel), and a Halfling Light Cleric. We have another party member who's undetermined at the moment.

We had a distinct lack of a real frontline, so since Druid was one of the classes I was interesting in playing, I figured I could go Moon Druid and try my best to tank a bit. I'd like some help building one, though. I also had a few questions about multiclass synergy and possible feats.

The character backstory that I'd like to do (which I think Moon Druid can best accommodate) is a very old "Wizard" who took to studying druidic magic with the same approach as every other sphere of arcane knowledge. He's less in tune with nature except as it pertains to his ability to cast nature magic. He's going to do things like referring to his Wild Shape ability as "Polymorph Self" and such. He's got a pretty in depth backstory besides that, but his basic background and mannerisms are built around that.

Specific Rules for this Campaign: 27 point buy. Any race from books allowed, with the exception of monstrous races. Everyone starts at Level 2 with an extra feat, which means Variant Humans actually get two of them. Hit Points are rolled every level and if they're less than the average, they're set at the average. All Feats except Lucky are allowed. DM is willing to accommodate UA on a case by case basis if I bring it up with him, but I'd rather try to stick to the official books unless there's a compelling reason not to. The module usually takes people to about level 10, but the DM has an extended option that can take us to 20. Relevant to my character, DM does Arcana checks for copying spells/rituals.

My initial gut reaction was to do Variant Human in order to get the Sentinel Feat and Ritual Caster: Wizard, to help me be a stickier tank and get the Wizard feel. The more I thought about it, though, the more I drifted to other options.

Since he's old, but learned, I was considering STR 8, DEX 10, CON 8, INT 16, WIS 16, CHA 14 as his starting stats, with possibly moving the 10 from DEX to CON. I feel like Moon Druid might be the only chance I have to effectively play someone with nothing buy high Mental/Social attributes and still have a chance of surviving combat. Another reason for high mental stats is that there's a sanity and dread mechanic to this game and some of it keys off of the lowest of your Int, Wis, or Cha.

The following are questions and ideas I had, though:

Barbarian doesn't really fit my character, but would Druid/Barbarian be worthwhile if I need to tank for everyone?

Same question for Monk.

What would be a good multiclass for this? My initial thought would be Knowledge Cleric. I would gain: More prepared spells, more WIS based cantrips (Sacred Flame), 1st level Cleric spells, expertise in Arcana and Nature, Command/Identify always prepared (gives me a different pick for Ritual Caster). I know that Light, Life, or possibly Tempest or such would be better domains, but I think the expertise really shows his experience in the two fields and Identify helps give me more interesting Ritual Caster picks (won't need to select Detect Magic either). Arcane Domain was an option, but oddly enough, outside of the WIS based Wizard cantrips, I feel like it didn't offer me much. I'd be 1 level behind in Druid spells and Wild Shape, but no spell slots lost.

Another idea I had was to skip the Ritual Caster Feat, grab either Resilient: Con or Warcaster, and multiclass into Wizard to get the Wizardy aspects of my character. This would only allow me access to 1st level rituals that I find, but looking through the list, the only real standouts to me of 2nd level and higher are Leomund's Tiny Hut and Rary's Telepathic Bond. Everything else is either on the Druid list or something I wouldn't see myself using. Even then, in order to get the two standouts, I'd have to hope that they somehow appeared in Curse of Strahd in the first place. I would likely end up doing Druid X/War Wizard 2. This would get me: Arcane cantrips, 1st level Wizard rituals, ability to copy 1st level Wizard spells into spellbook, access to Mage Armor (for Wild Shape AC) and Shield (for non Wild Shape emergencies), +int to initiative (great since my human dex is low, but stacks with Wild Shape dex), +2 AC or +4 to saving throw on reaction (competes with Sentinel, but great for maintaining concentration or really passing a save I need to pass). This would set me back 2 levels in Druid spell progression and Wild Shape, but at least I wouldn't lost spell slots. The more I think about it, the more I like this specific combination, but I'd like to know if there's something I'm missing or something that could be better. Could also use help with when to multiclass.

[djreynolds]

This goes to level 10.

You get a free feat, and human variant. And possibly 2 more.

10 levels of druid, elemental form

1. Never dump constitution
2. Grab resilient con, why, lot of stuff can paralyze you in early play. While in wildshape you can still concentrate on a spell previously cast, like moonbeam
3. Tough, ask DM about this. Or inspiring leader and temporary HP and animal form
4. Sentinel is a great choice

So grab resilient con, then sentinel, then max out wisdom

[Spore]

Honestly I would not multiclass in an adventure where smart (or oblivious) players can waltz into the final confrontation before even reaching 10th level.

I dipped druid on my Life Cleric (i know its done the other way around) and it was not worth it. Also dont assume tanking is a good choice in the AP. Someone needs to frontline, yes but you do not 'tank' a vampire, or a werewolf or similar.

[sophontteks]

Yeah multiclassing won't do much good in CoS. You'll be better off with better spell progression. Your party doesn't need a tank as much as they need a caster. Rangers and clerics are pretty tanky themselves.

On the multiclassing, you are trying to specialize yourself as a tank at the cost of your versitility. Versitility is what you want in CoS, where picking the right fights will do you more good then being better in fights.

Considering this, and the fact that moon druids benefit the least from ASI, you can afford to put that bonus feat elsewhere. Prodigy would really help your character provide more utility outside of combat. Its an extra skill, an extra language, an extra tool, and expertise.

Lots of good options for expertise. You can pick stealth to make your wildshapes super sneaky. You can pick athletics to grapple. You can pick insight to keep Barivia's shady NPCs honest. Expertise in perception will keep your party from being ambushed. Lots of good options here on top of getting another free skill.

[OverLordOcelot]

I think any multiclassing will make you much weaker. Every level you MC is one level less of spell progression (even casters only give you slot progression) and one level less of form abilities, and runs counter to what you're trying to do. For example, you're looking at tanking by sentinel, but every level of MC pushes back your level 6 ability to treat form attacks as magical. Bavoria is filled with undead and werewolves, who resist or ignore non-magical, non-silver damage, and a single half-strength or zero-strength AOO is really easy to ignore. Also sentinel isn't really that great at controlling enemies, your conjure animals (at level 5) and ability to grapple well in forms (many of which get free riders) are much, much more obnoxious for keeping enemies off your weaker friends.

To be an effective moon druid, you really need to cast concentration spells and then go into a form. If you just take physical feats, you are basically wasting your huge and unique spell list, which has some really awesome spells. Yeah, you'll still feel like a king around levels 2-4 where your forms are just amazing, but that wears off pretty fast. For the love of strange forest deities, don't dump CON, especially if you're going to call yourself a tank. Dumping CON means less HP and more failed concentration saves, making you just ineffective all around. You want to take warcaster and resilient(CON) so that you can shrug off hits and still keep your spells going, and shrug off the paralysis effects that are all over the place. For wizard flavor, I would take magic initiate over ritual caster - I think two cantrips you can't normally learn will give you more mileage than low-level wizard rituals (either one gives you find familiar, which you definitely want).

You have three spells that are going to be superstars for this campaign. Pass Without Trace is one of the best spells around, +10 to stealth checks when sneaking means even the plate-wearers have a good chance of going undetected. Moonbeam is a solid damage spell usually, but becomes amazing in Bavoria because the beam negates vampire (and spawn) regeneration and the shapeshifting of both vampires and werewolves. Conjure animals is the go-to for controlling the battlefield, you can summon a forest mugging squad to slow/stop enemy movement, give allies help, add to damage, and tie up enemy attacks. Against vampire spawn, vampires, and werewolves, your best tanking will probably be "turn 1 cast moonbeam on them, shift into form with good grapple stats, turn 2 get a grapple or grapple-like ability on them, turn 3+ shift moonbeam if needed, hold them in the moonbeam". Nothing that barbarian levels and sentinel can do for you is even in the same neighborhood as that, you're practically turning on cheat mode.


Lots of good options for expertise. You can pick stealth to make your wildshapes super sneaky. You can pick athletics to grapple. You can pick insight to keep Barivia's shady NPCs honest. Expertise in perception will keep your party from being ambushed. Lots of good options here on top of getting another free skill.

Stealth expertise is less useful for a druid than for other classes, because you can use a level 2 spell slot to give yourself +10 to stealth when it matters, which pretty much means 'pass any realistic stealth check'. It's not useless, and if you're doing a lot of sneaking and don't have a staff of the woodlands you'll get some mileage from it, but it's something you'll probably not be impressed with. Athletics is really, really good if you're abusing the large/huge size and good strength of forms to grapple enemies, which you should be.

[Wildarm]

Looking for a tank for CoS? With a bonus starting feat have you considered a V Human Paladin? Pick Heavy Armor Master and Res(Con) at level 1 and you should be a very tanky wall of smites with decent saves. HAM + a much better AC will likely give you more effective HP than a Druid.

16 Str, 10 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 12 Wis, 14 Cha

2nd Option might be a Half Elf Paladin starting with Inspiring Leader to give everyone a good HP boost. Spread the HP around instead of just being a damage soak yourself.

16 Str, 8 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 16 Cha

[sophontteks]

Yeah, good point on stealth.

Prodigy for profeciency and expertise in athetics will make you a better tank then multiclassing ever could. By level 5 animal forms won't be dishing out much damage. Grappling will give your animal shapes a better option. Force the enemy to deal with you, and throw them into hazards.

[Man_Over_Game]

I do disagree that a little bit of multiclassing would hurt. A single level of Barbarian gets you:

+2 damage on all beast attacks (and you start right away with a Bear with 2 attacks, so +4 damage per turn)
Half damage from physical attacks
AC based off of Constitution and Dexterity (and beasts generally have low AC, high Con and decent Dex).
+2 - +4 HP in Druid form (depending on whether you start Barbarian or not).

As a Moon Druid, you're not going to be casting quite as many spells as other full casters in the first place, and with Barbarian, you can afford to Rage Twice and being invulnerable for the entire combat rather than casting a Concentration Spell to lose it in the second round. Your Cleric and Ranger can be melee combatants, sure, but the benefit of having those two classes is that they're extremely versatile and can swap to ranged combat without any loss in effectiveness, or they can engage to defend you when your beast form is about to drop (which is a lot worse when you don't have Barbarian Rage to protect your Druid HP).

With a Cleric on board, your high level casting when out of beast-mode, a possible Arcane Trickster, and everyone having some form of magic damage contribution, I don't think that changing to a squishier, magic-dealing alternative is in your best interest.

Light Clerics and Rogue/Ranger hybrids are not something I'd consider ever being a strong "front line". You need something that can take a hit or two, and I think Barbarian can help. Flavor it as short-term Amnesia, or a special physical casting of Tenser's Transformation that he learned.

Now, if Barbarian doesn't work for you, maintaining Moon Druid is going to be the best choice to rush the larger beast forms as soon as possible.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about:

The average HP of a level 3 front line character is 25.

Moon Druid bear form grants an effective 34 HP, twice per short rest (so 68 effective HP per short rest).
Barbarian Rage doubles effective HP against Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing damage.

You're looking at being able to take 136 damage, take a Short Rest, take another 136 damage. Assuming only two fights per day with a Short Rest in between, that's about 275 damage. With another Short Rest, you can take another 68 in a third fight.

And the average amount of damage someone should be able to take at that level in a day is 25.

Now, this is all assuming that the creatures you're facing are dealing physical damage (which won't always be the case), but a single level into Druid isn't going to do much against those niche situations any more than your level of Barbarian could. Using your intellectual stats, the saving throw proficiencies of both yours AND the beast form's, the reduction from physical damage, and the increased AC from Barbarian Unarmored Defense, there are not many spells that you'd have to worry about.

Consider the fact that your Druid form, at level 3, is sitting on 15 HP, which is doubled from your effective Barbarian Rage. Do you really feel comfortable just relying on the base Moon Druid form to keep you safe long enough to shift again without Rage? Because if you're expecting a Concentration spell pre-cast before Wild Shaping, to protect you from the time your Wild Shape starts to the time it drops from damage, that's not going to happen, but Rage WILL.

So, yes, you can invest in something else, but I promise you, NOTHING will be as effective for a Moon Druid tank as a single level of Barbarian. You already have someone considering Arcane Trickster if more magic was needed, and you already have a magic-heavy Cleric, so it's not like the group really needs your Druid casting as much as they need someone who has more effective HP than a level 20 character (which is about 144).

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The common solution that most DM's implement who encounter the BearBarian is to simply ignore it. It's an indestructable tank that's limited to melee attacks, so most of us either have to resort to some kind of GWM style of damage dealing (using low accuracy, high damage attacks to punish targets with low AC and high HP), or we just do what we can to ignore the giant-ass bear in our way. Grabbing Sentinel is a powerful way to punish this attempt, making it so that there's no good solution against your build.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

Small update. I asked the DM a couple of questions, some in regards to ritual caster. He's planning on having opportunities to get every spell ritual available in some form, as well as some custom rituals he's created specifically for the campaign. Without a wizard in the party, this makes it a strong choice for versatility with just that alone, but he's also added that rituals that are shared between Wizard and Druid are able to be copied into the ritual book as well, which frees up a few slots. I'm fairly sold on at least getting that feat now, so the question is whether Sentinel or Resilient:Con/Warcaster is a better choice.

The consensus seems to be not to dump Con, but how high should it be for it to not be considered dumping it? I could pull 2 points from INT and put them into Con, making it a 12. I could dump Dex and Str in order to bump that to 13 (14 if I take resilient Con), but my AC out of wild shape is already quite low. What's the lowest Con I can get away with in order to maintain the aged aspect of my character?

Barbarian was something I was considering at first, but a lot of it seems at odds with my character, despite the tanking potential. I can definitely see the appeal of putting on a Concentration spell, wild shaping, then raging when the concentration spell dropped (since there wouldn't be any downside to it at that point). If the undetermined guy doesn't pick up a melee oriented class, I might go with that option, though the 13 str requirement hurts.

[Helldin87]

If you're stuck on MCing try the bearadin: Start Paladin 2 then go straight druid. Use your slots for healing yourself or smiting baddies as needed. You are 1 caster level behind a full druid and have an offensive option to use slots with when wildshaped.

Try this:

Ghostwise Halfling- gives you lucky, brave, and silent speech (good for wildshaped druids to be able to speak to party members, even better for SNEAKY druids to be able to do so silently)

13/10/14/12/14/13 SUPER MAD but bear with me (punintentional because bears)
Probably rocking an AC of 15 in caster form with just studded leather and a shield

I divide a moon druid up into two meaningful states: shifted and NOT shifted and both are worth discussing:

Shifted:
Able to take up to CR 1 forms
Use Combat Wild Shape to heal 1d8 per spell slot level expended as a bonus action
Use silent speech
Use LOH (lay on paws?) 10 points
Use Divine Sense
*****Smite on hit ***** This is why you're here. This is why you are MCing into Paladin 2. You've got 2 level 2 and 4 level 1 slots to burn on Smite. Use 'em!

Ask your DM if you can keep your armor during the shift. This allows the defense fighting style to work harder for you! Adding 1 AC to your beast forms is pretty nice.

Not Shifted:
Use Silent Speech
Utility spells/cantrips/rituals. Try to grab as many rituals per day as you reasonably can to fill out your bag o' tricks and save your slots for healing yourself and smiting your foes.
Use LOH (actually hands this time) and don't forget you can heal a lot of status conditions for 5 points
Use Divine Sense

Bonus Feat:
Alert is good in almost every build because being surprised is not good. +5 to initiative helps you NOT be in caster form to be hit.

[sophontteks]

Barbarian was something I was considering at first, but a lot of it seems at odds with my character, despite the tanking potential. I can definitely see the appeal of putting on a Concentration spell, wild shaping, then raging when the concentration spell dropped (since there wouldn't be any downside to it at that point). If the undetermined guy doesn't pick up a melee oriented class, I might go with that option, though the 13 str requirement hurts.
If you don't multiclass you'll be concentrating on better spells, and you'll have better forms to change into.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

If you don't multiclass you'll be concentrating on better spells, and you'll have better forms to change into.

I think, based on the feedback in this thread, I'll probably stick to just Druid for the time being. A lot of the good multiclass options don't really fit the character too much, despite being effective. That Arcana and Nature expertise from Knowledge Domain keeps calling to me (would also allow for two more proficiencies), but I guess aren't too terribly necessary and I might be able to just pick up a feat to cover it later.

I guess, now I just need to settle on my attributes and feats. How do you guys feel about these options (after Vhuman stat bumps) for an old man retired nature wizard-y feel:


1) 8/10/8/16/16/14 or 8/8/10/16/16/14 with Sentinel. Pick up Warcaster at 4, then probably bump WIS or CHA. My original plan.
2) 8/10/12/14/16/14 with Sentinel. Pick up Warcaster at 4. The standard array for better CON and DEX.
3) 8/9/13/14/16/14 with Resilient: Con (bumps CON up to 14). Pick up Sentinel or Warcaster at 4. Dumped DEX, much better CON. Doesn't make early Wildshape very sticky.
4) 8/8/12/15/16/14 or 8/10/10/15/16/14 with Sentinel. Ask the DM for UA Arcanist Feat at level 4. Warcaster at level 8. Potentially weird, but covers all of the bases I want. DM discretion though.
5) 8/12/13/12/16/14 with Resilient: Con (bumps CON up to 14). ASI for +2 Int at level 4. More survivable early game build, not as sticky a tank, can RP slowly remembering things I'd forgotten as I go.
6) 8/8/13/15/16/13 with Resilient:Con (bumps CON to 14). Res: CHA at level 4. UA Arcanist or INT half feat at level 8. The "Fix it with feats" build. CHA saves seem more useful in CoS than elsewhere.

3 seems to have the most long term survivability, though the lack of early game sentinel might hurt my "tankiness." Could swipe Prodigy at level 4 in order to get my Arcana expertise.
4 seem to offer most of what I want, if DM is amenable. Could also replace Sentinel with Warcaster. Is 12 an acceptable CON for a Moon Druid build? I assume the difference between 8 and 10 DEX for getting his is negligible since my AC is abysmal to begin with in human form.

[Spore]

Generally I feel Con 12 is okay for anything not on the frontline, Con 14 is good, and Con 15-16 is what I pray or aim for when I am the sole frontline.

[djreynolds]

So you are taking war caster, sentinel, and resilient con. And you get one more but are undecided, obviously wisdom is a wise choice.... but this can all wait.

I think druid is just fine, and barbarian is a nice dip for rage but you cannot concentrate on a spell while raging... like moonbeam

I think a level of monk somewhere in there could help out

Too bad about the lucky feat, because it is really nice to have

Otherwise, just play. Short rest to replenish wildshapes. Level 10 is elemental wildshape.... very strong

1 one level dip ain't bad.... but you will lose out on elemental wildshape.... look at the stat block of the elementals... not too shabby

This adventure has one purpose.... its not having fun... its not hanging out with friends... its killing Strahd.... being an elemental will help this

HUGE SPOILER...

IMO, ritual caster is okay, but you are a druid... you have this and you have all the detect and identify stuff, just prepare stuff. 2nd unless your DM is making a huge edit... this is not much of anything in Strahd's land. It has been purposely stunted so the population cannot rise up against him, there are no magic shops, there are no venders selling scrolls

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

So you are taking war caster, sentinel, and resilient con. And you get one more but are undecided, obviously wisdom is a wise choice.... but this can all wait

...

Otherwise, just play. Short rest to replenish wildshapes. Level 10 is elemental wildshape.... very strong

HUGE SPOILER...

IMO, ritual caster is okay, but you are a druid... you have this and you have all the detect and identify stuff, just prepare stuff. 2nd unless your DM is making a huge edit... this is not much of anything in Strahd's land. It has been purposely stunted so the population cannot rise up against him, there are no magic shops, there are no venders selling scrolls

I get 2 feats as a Variant Human for this. I'm taking Ritual Caster and probably Res Con or Warcaster now after advice. So I can grab the other at level 4, or something else. I've heard that moon druid is less reliant on stat increases, so I can definitely use feats for flavor.

As for Ritual Caster, the DM assured me that there will be access to every wizard ritual available, as well as some custom rituals. They'll all have their own particular hurdles to cross, but I'll get a lot of use out of it. I'm also allowed to jot down rituals that are shared between Druid and Wizard, so that'll immediately free up some space slots and add versatility (detect magic comes to mind).