Improved Sigil Krau Question

[Spegynmerbles]

So I'm pretty new to dnd and I'm not quite sure about the feat improved sigil krau. Does this lower the spell slot requirement for metamagic feats like quicken spell by casting at a higher cl?

[Crake]

So I'm pretty new to dnd and I'm not quite sure about the feat improved sigil krau. Does this lower the spell slot requirement for metamagic feats like quicken spell by casting at a higher cl?

It does nothing beyond what is stated, which is that your caster level improves by two, but only up to a maximum of your HD. This means that you can, for example, multiclass into fighter for 2 levels, and still cast at full caster level. It does not affect your spells known or spells per day however. Metamagic does not interact with your caster level, it interacts with your spell slots and which slot you use to cast a spell, and thus the ability has no interaction with metamagic at all.

[OgresAreCute]

It does nothing beyond what is stated, which is that your caster level improves by two, but only up to a maximum of your HD. This means that you can, for example, multiclass into fighter for 2 levels, and still cast at full caster level. It does not affect your spells known or spells per day however. Metamagic does not interact with your caster level, it interacts with your spell slots and which slot you use to cast a spell, and thus the ability has no interaction with metamagic at all.

So it functions like half a Practiced Spellcaster, then.

[Crake]

So it functions like half a Practiced Spellcaster, then.

Correct, I assumed that the OP wasn't quite so versed as the typical playgrounder based on the question and the way it was structured, so I added a bit more info.

Edit: And now I feel like an idiot, because I realise they were asking about improved sigil krau.

Improved sigil krau increases the spell level of the spells in question by 1. As with the regular krau sigil, this has no bearing on which spell slot is used, and thus has no interaction with other metamagics, but the increased spell level means that the spell has a higher DC and is better able to penetrate certain defenses, such as globes of invulnerability, and burn through other effects, like spell turning, more quickly.

[RaiKirah]

Improved sigil krau increases the spell level of the spells in question by 1. As with the regular krau sigil, this has no bearing on which spell slot is used, and thus has no interaction with other metamagics, but the increased spell level means that the spell has a higher DC and is better able to penetrate certain defenses, such as globes of invulnerability, and burn through other effects, like spell turning, more quickly.

It also - arguably - increases the actual level of the spell for the purposes of qualifying for prestige classes, etc. and unlike Heighten Spell doesn't require a higher level slot to use. This is the basis of many of the more absurd early entry tricks, and should probably be avoided.

[Kelb_Panthera]

It also - arguably - increases the actual level of the spell for the purposes of qualifying for prestige classes, etc. and unlike Heighten Spell doesn't require a higher level slot to use. This is the basis of many of the more absurd early entry tricks, and should probably be avoided.

Sacrificing your race choice to pick a race that excells at multiclassing and does nothing else so you can get early entry into a PrC seems like a fair trade to me.

[HouseRules]

The early entry to Mystic Theurge is well known. Remember that 2nd class level is necessary to make the Power Sigil Krau to +2.
Improved Sigil Krau allows 2 known spells to be heighten +1 without spell slot increased.

[Ramza00]

So I'm pretty new to dnd and I'm not quite sure about the feat improved sigil krau. Does this lower the spell slot requirement for metamagic feats like quicken spell by casting at a higher cl?

Some of the useful things about Improved Sigil Krau.


Benefits of the Krau Sigil, you get 2 sigils via your Illuminan Race (which you need to have in order to take the Improved Sigil Krau Feat.

You gain up to 2 caster levels, up to your hit dice with 2 classes helping mystic theurge type classes for it is effectively half a practiced spellcaster and it works for 2 classes not just 1.

Benefits of the Improved Sigil Krau Feat

2 of your spells get a heighten spell effect when you reveal your sigils.
Your Spell DC goes up with a spell that is level 1 to 8. This is effectively a spell focus feat for 2 of your spells at level 2. It also stacks with the various spell focus feats.
Certain spells and other abilities use spell level to determine whether things work. Things like globe of invulnerability. Furthermore the illuminan race can turn on and off their sigils as a standard action to turn off and a free action to turn on and thus you get to selectively choose when to benefit for things like metamagic rods and so on.
Early entry prestige classes can now occur via boosting your spell level via 1 for certain PRCs require a certain level of spells. Thus you can do Archivist 2/Wizard 1 or Wizard 2/Archivist 1 and enter Mystic Theurge at level 4 since MT requires 2nd level arcane and divine spells and you can use improved sigil krau feat on 2 spells, 1 arcane and 1 divine and the effective level of these 1st level spells are now 2nd level since Improved Sigil Krau acts as a free heighten feat to two of your spells if you show off your sigils.


Note there are some other benefits but those are the 4 main ones. The downside is you lose one feat to take this feat, and you also lose the opportunity cost of being another race such as a human that gives you an additional bonus feat (so a difference on net of 2 feats), or another race entirely. (I picked humans for Illuminans as a comparison point for the races look the same on an appearance basis.)

[Spegynmerbles]

Thanks for clearing that up, still trying to understand some of the spellcasting mechanics as they can be a little confusing.

[Ramza00]

Thanks for clearing that up, still trying to understand some of the spellcasting mechanics as they can be a little confusing.

I edited my post to make it a little more clear. :smallsmile:

[HouseRules]

Enhanced Power Sigils
( Races of Destiny, p. 152)

[Racial]

Your illumian power sigils are more powerful than normal.
Prerequisite

Illumian, two power sigils,
Benefit

The bonuses granted by each of your power sigils improve by 1.
Normal

Without this feat, the bonuses granted by each of your power sigils are equal to the number of power sigils you possess.


Thus, it is possible to improve your power sigils to give +3.

Power Sigils give bonus equals to the number of sigils brightly lit.

Level 1 - select 1st sigil, remaining 5 stays dimly lit. Bonus at +1.
2nd Level of Any Class - select 2nd power sigil, remaining 4 remains dimly lit. Bonuses are +2.
Enhanced Power Sigil [Racial Feat] increase to +3


Power Sigils

Krau = +(# power sigils) Spell Caster Level for all Spells and Spell-Like Abilities
Naen = +(# power sigils) Intelligence Check and Intelligence-Based Skill Checks.
Hoon = +(# power sigils) Wisdom Checks, Constitution Checks, Wisdom-Based Skill Checks, Constitution-Based Skill Checks
Aesh = +(# power sigils) Strength Checks and Strength-Based Skill Checks
Vaul = +(# power sigils) Charisma Checks and Charisma-Based Skill Checks
Uur = +(# power sigils) Dexterity Checks and Dexterity-Based Skill Checks


Improved Power Sigils Feats

Krau = +1 Spell Level without increase spell slot to 2 spells with verbal component you can cast
Naen = +1 Insight Bonus on Save vs Illusion and Resist Language-Based Effects
Hoon = +1 Insight Bonus on Save vs Death Effects
Aesh = +(# power sigils) Insight Bonus on Melee Weapon Damage
Vaul = +1 Insight Bonus on Save vs Mind-Affecting
Uur = +(# power sigils) Insight Bonus on Ranged Weapon Damage


Improved Sigil (Krau) is mutually exclusive with Silent Spell [Metamagic].

This RAW vs RAI (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23645781&postcount=114) of Improving Spell Caster Level Improvement Limitations.


Quicken with Improved Sigil (Krau)
+1 Effective Spell Level, +4 Adjusted Spell Level.
Since Improved Sigil (Krau) does not require a higher level spell slot from the base spell, the Quicken version takes the same spell slot as a non-Improved Sigil Krau version.

Quicken Cure Light Wounds - 5th Level Spell Slot, 1st Level Spell.
Quicken Improved Cure Light Wounds - 5th Level Spell Slot, 2nd Level Spell.

[CactusAir]

Sacrificing your race choice to pick a race that excells at multiclassing and does nothing else so you can get early entry into a PrC seems like a fair trade to me.

+1 to this.

A lot of prestige classes abilities seem to be pretty clearly written with low level play in mind but don't actually give you those abilities until a level where they are basically not much use anymore.

Early entry makes quite a few otherwise terrible prestige classes actually worthwhile.